Bleed overhaul

[Luke Cox]

I like the concept of bleeding out, but the implementation is kind of retarded.

Right now, it works with damage thresholds. When a limb has a certain amount of brute, it starts bleeding. A blunt stunbaton causes just as much bleeding as a knife. This makes no damn sense. It's a tacked on addition that doesn't contribute much to combat. Instead, bleeding should be treated as an invisible 5th damage type, called laceration or something like that. Laceration damage would be caused by sharp objects, like knives, screwdrivers, and especially bullets. Instead of immediately removing health, higher laceration damage means the limb bleeds faster. Getting jabbed with a screwdriver would cause a little bleeding. Being stabbed a dozen times would become very deadly very quickly. These items would have their brute damage nerfed to compensate, making them more damage-over-time oriented. To keep this from getting too annoying to treat, we could add a new chemical or two that promotes blood regeneration, maybe even synthetic blood. Ghetto bandages would also be a must.

[Super Aggro Crag]

if you hit someone really hard with a blunt object they will bleed

[Lo6a4evskiy]

if you hit someone really hard with a blunt object they will bleed

Exactly.

You'd need to go over ALL or most items to see how much of this new damage type they need (I mean paper can cut, right? Let's totally add that). You'd need to balance that out. If you nerf brute damage of things like fire axe to account for this new damage type, it will be effectively a nerf because in combat brute damage is vastly superior to incredibly slow damage over time that won't take effect until they smashed your face with a blunt item that has more damage/called for help 10 times/ran to the medbay and healed themselves.

[Drynwyn]

(I mean paper can cut, right? Let's totally add that).

Syndicate paper, it's black and sharp enough to be used on other people to instantly cause bleeding without them getting a warning message. Wearing it as a hat will slowly cause brute + proc bleed every Life() call.

This would actually be really neat.

[Luke Cox]

For balancing existing items, I was thinking that we could start by giving everything that deals brute a small amount of laceration damage as a baseline, then adjust sharp items from there. It wouldn't be all that difficult to balance. I wouldn't call it a nerf at all either. Brute damage requires you to stand there and beat them to death. Laceration damage would be much deadlier long term. A traitor could run up to somebody, stab them a bunch of times rapidly, and run away before their victim can retaliate. On the flip side, the victim could successfully stun their attacker before the bleeding sets in. People would have to strategize a little. It bothers me that there is no meaningful difference between bludgeoning somebody with a crowbar and stabbing them with a knife. This system would make for much more interesting combat.

Tiny bit I forgot to mention: laceration damage below a set threshold would gradually heal over time (wounds clotting and all). That way, you don't go into crit 30 minutes after somebody jabs you with a screwdriver. For additional keks, we couldmake it make it so that lizards' wounds don't heal on their own. Hemophilia could be a new virus symptom too.

And holy shit yes make syndicate paper happen

[Lo6a4evskiy]

A traitor could run up to somebody, stab them a bunch of times rapidly, and run away before their victim can retaliate.

I cannot imagine a situation where this would be better than just murdering them. Like, I got nothing.

Honestly, bleed is just a tacked on mechanic that was only added because certain people wanted realismuru baymeduru and all that nonsense. It's a very strange system in a world where literally everything else can be healed by a vending machine. Even cloners have auto eject. There seems to be an uncertainty about whether we want people to be able to heal themselves or not. But wait, one can set up IV alone too, right? So yeah, I guess that's not entirely true, it's just a tacked on system that is yet another arbitrary step between a healthy person and an injured one. It doesn't provide a tactical benefit because waiting for people to bleed to death is pointless. It's faster, more efficient and more reliable to just kill them.

[ShadowDimentio]

Bleeding adds nothing except MUH REALISM and irritation. Remove or make it not shit.

[TheNightingale]

What if we just ported Baymed? Internal bleeding, organ damage, broken bones, dismemberment and replacement organs, the works? I doubt they'd mind, so long as we gave credit.

[Cheimon]

I like bleeding. It's a neat mechanic that means you can't just ignore brute damage and need to patch yourself up, sooner preferably. It improves a bunch of the station's most common improvised weapons (since, apart from welders, they're brute-based) and ensures someone will eventually go down if they're constantly pressured after a certain amount of injury.

It also makes things like embedding a bit more meaningful. I really don't see what it subtracts, it's another layer of complexity on a very simple system that makes the game more fun.

[Bluespace]

Because medical doctors already spend 15 minutes trying to treat your 10 brute.
Baymed only works because of their slower and more RP orientated rounds.

[ShadowDimentio]

Internal bleeding

You wanna know what sucks cock? Getting hit a few times and then having to sit in medbay's operating theater for ten minutes while they make it so you stop SLOWLY DYING.

No.

organ damage

You wanna know what sucks cock? Going near a spaced area or something for like two seconds and having your fucking lungs collapse.

NO.

broken bones

You wanna know what sucks cock? Getting in a fight with some jackass and they get a lucky shot off with an extinguisher and your fucking leg breaks. Suddenly you can't fucking move and are fucking dead because he got lucky.

NO.

dismemberment

You wanna know what sucks cock? Wizards that fling around fireballs and if one hits you you either can't fucking move any more OR you lose an arm, or, better yet, BOTH.

NO!

[TheNightingale]

That's just it. It's horrible for everyone involved, including the other party. You know what resembles fellatio? That wizard being hit with a spear once, then dying of IB and organ failure mid-Jaunt. It'd stop people getting into fights they can't win (no more charging the ops team with just a fire extinguisher), as well as initiating fights they don't need (no more beating someone because le meme edgy violence).

[Deitus]

i could go for the bleed overhaul in the op personally. baymed would be a pain for tg's playstyle

[Wyzack]

Luke are you coding this or is it effectively gunsmithing 2.0

[Super Aggro Crag]

stop trying to make combat more lethal. combat should be less lethal. we should be able to have wacky slap fights over minor issues without it turning into the rwandan genocide because someone rolled high on his punch and shattered a man's coccyx and drove it straight into his ganglia

[Zilenan91]

Removing bleeding would really screw with the balance of the game. Things like spears and pneumatic cannons, at least spears especially, are a go to weapon for fighting stuff, so their absence will be felt.

[Luke Cox]

A traitor could run up to somebody, stab them a bunch of times rapidly, and run away before their victim can retaliate.

I cannot imagine a situation where this would be better than just murdering them. Like, I got nothing.

Honestly, bleed is just a tacked on mechanic that was only added because certain people wanted realismuru baymeduru and all that nonsense. It's a very strange system in a world where literally everything else can be healed by a vending machine. Even cloners have auto eject. There seems to be an uncertainty about whether we want people to be able to heal themselves or not. But wait, one can set up IV alone too, right? So yeah, I guess that's not entirely true, it's just a tacked on system that is yet another arbitrary step between a healthy person and an injured one. It doesn't provide a tactical benefit because waiting for people to bleed to death is pointless. It's faster, more efficient and more reliable to just kill them.

Using bleed damage would be preferable in a situation where you don't have a reliable stun, want to be able to hit the person and run quickly, you're far away from medbay, or any combination of those. If you want to bludgeon them to death, you have to stand there and beat them into crit (preferably death), and risk somebody catching you the whole time. My goal with the idea was to make it so that there's a strategic element to choosing your weapon.

Bleeding adds nothing except MUH REALISM and irritation. Remove or make it not shit.

My idea aims for the latter. It's a good concept and it'd be a shame to scrap it altogether.

Luke are you coding this or is it effectively gunsmithing 2.0

I wish. Mostly just begging the code gods for this.

stop trying to make combat more lethal. combat should be less lethal. we should be able to have wacky slap fights over minor issues without it turning into the rwandan genocide because someone rolled high on his punch and shattered a man's coccyx and drove it straight into his ganglia

Slipping would cause little to no bleed. Also forgot to mention that there would probably be a small threshold of laceration damage before bleeding actually starts in order to keep people from bleeding out when they get tapped

Also, git gud

[ThanatosRa]

(I mean paper can cut, right? Let's totally add that).

Syndicate paper, it's black and sharp enough to be used on other people to instantly cause bleeding without them getting a warning message. Wearing it as a hat will slowly cause brute + proc bleed every Life() call.

This would actually be really neat.

Make it foldable into a paper plan that embeds when it hits a human or mob.

[Luke Cox]

(I mean paper can cut, right? Let's totally add that).

Syndicate paper, it's black and sharp enough to be used on other people to instantly cause bleeding without them getting a warning message. Wearing it as a hat will slowly cause brute + proc bleed every Life() call.

This would actually be really neat.

Make it foldable into a paper plan that embeds when it hits a human or mob.

Coderbus get the fuck in here now

[Anonmare]

Give traitors a syndicate medkit that would let them be able to patch themselves up without having to rely on medbay, and Changelings able to undue their injuries and I'd be willing to give a more in-depth medical system a shot.
Let's say the medkit costs about... 3-4 TC and uses the Nuke OPs' Syndicate Medical Supply Kit's sprite and contains whatever you'd need to undo internal bleeding/broken bones rapidly. It's an investment to be sure and the medkit box will make you valid salid if anyone sees it. I'd personally deny it to Nuke OPs to encourage OPs on avoiding serious injury, plus they have a sort of surgery area on their ship that never gets used.

[Zilenan91]

Just combine the surgery kit with some medical supplies, god knows more people need to buy that.

Also if this were ever implemented ops would need priority access of it. Once Ops are discovered, there is no retreating to their ship. The crew will immediately attempt to activate, so you're gonna be on a timer.

[Luke Cox]

Give traitors a syndicate medkit that would let them be able to patch themselves up without having to rely on medbay, and Changelings able to undue their injuries and I'd be willing to give a more in-depth medical system a shot.
Let's say the medkit costs about... 3-4 TC and uses the Nuke OPs' Syndicate Medical Supply Kit's sprite and contains whatever you'd need to undo internal bleeding/broken bones rapidly. It's an investment to be sure and the medkit box will make you valid salid if anyone sees it. I'd personally deny it to Nuke OPs to encourage OPs on avoiding serious injury, plus they have a sort of surgery area on their ship that never gets used.

I could see a high-quality, multi-use bandage for 2 or so TC being a thing. Ops would definitely have some of them on the ship. Changelings are neigh-immortal as it is. Fleshmend can be used to fix bleeding damage. Or more interestingly, what if the only bled fake blood and didn't have any actual blood in them? Broken bones aren't something I would see being implemented with this. I want to keep it simple to get the attention of the coders. Maybe in the future, but I imagine coders would want to do something like this first.

Just combine the surgery kit with some medical supplies, god knows more people need to buy that.

Also if this were ever implemented ops would need priority access of it. Once Ops are discovered, there is no retreating to their ship. The crew will immediately attempt to activate, so you're gonna be on a timer.

Ops get a full medbay, they'd have supplies to deal with this for sure. Hardsuits of all kinds should make you nearly or completely invulnerable to laceration damage (hard shell and padding).