The final solution to the antag pop-up prompt question.
- Lumbermancer
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumbermancer
The final solution to the antag pop-up prompt question.
Pop ups. First, you had to just push enter to approve your candidature. It favored the autists who don't browse the internets while dead, and those that turn on macros for autoclicking (filthy hackers). Its warning sound was largely indistinct too. Now we have different prompt, you can't push enter anymore, you have to mouse click on "ok". It's less predicable, but problems remain.
So, here's what I postulate. Let all sorts of antags, including sentient monsters, ert and other meme events be on opt-in basis, just like normal antags. And then when antag is chosen randomly have a pop up for 10 seconds to confirm it, so the person can refuse the antag if he or she doesn't want it, or new antag can be chosen is the person is afk.
So, here's what I postulate. Let all sorts of antags, including sentient monsters, ert and other meme events be on opt-in basis, just like normal antags. And then when antag is chosen randomly have a pop up for 10 seconds to confirm it, so the person can refuse the antag if he or she doesn't want it, or new antag can be chosen is the person is afk.
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
- Byond Username: CPTANT
Re: The final solution to the antag pop-up prompt question.
Yeah I never really understood why not all role candidacies are handled like with xenos. You turn on the preference and get directly spawned in as soon as there is a viable mob to jump to.Lumbermancer wrote:Pop ups. First, you had to just push enter to approve your candidature. It favored the autists who don't browse the internets while dead, and those that turn on macros for autoclicking (filthy hackers). Its warning sound was largely indistinct too. Now we have different prompt, you can't push enter anymore, you have to mouse click on "ok". It's less predicable, but problems remain.
So, here's what I postulate. Let all sorts of antags, including sentient monsters, ert and other meme events be on opt-in basis, just like normal antags. And then when antag is chosen randomly have a pop up for 10 seconds to confirm it, so the person can refuse the antag if he or she doesn't want it, or new antag can be chosen is the person is afk.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- MisterPerson
- Board Moderator
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:26 pm
- Byond Username: MisterPerson
Re: The final solution to the antag pop-up prompt question.
Because we don't want 5000 different preference options that are literally newbie traps that exist mainly to keep them from actually getting to play xeno.
I code for the code project and moderate the code sections of the forums.
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
- ShadowDimentio
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
- Byond Username: David273
Re: The final solution to the antag pop-up prompt question.
Why was this a needed change at all
Spoiler:
- invisty
- Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 12:02 am
- Byond Username: Invisty
Re: The final solution to the antag pop-up prompt question.
Isnt low ping bias still a problem?
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- Remie Richards
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:11 pm
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Re: The final solution to the antag pop-up prompt question.
typing anything while the byond popup appeared was accepted as a Yes, which meant you'd be getting a lot of roles you didn't intend to roll for.ShadowDimentio wrote:Why was this a needed change at all
with our own popups, they don't take the focus away from the current windows, allowing you to type fine.
Our custom ones also auto-close if the popup is based around a timed window (eg: 10 seconds to decide if you want to be Ian!) and that time runs out, this stops you being disappointed about clicking popups that had been open the entire time you'd been AFK.
私は完璧
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- Github User
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:50 pm
- Byond Username: Xxnoob
- Github Username: xxalpha
Re: The final solution to the antag pop-up prompt question.
This is how it should be.Lumbermancer wrote:So, here's what I postulate. Let all sorts of antags, including sentient monsters, ert and other meme events be on opt-in basis, just like normal antags. And then when antag is chosen randomly have a pop up for 10 seconds to confirm it, so the person can refuse the antag if he or she doesn't want it, or new antag can be chosen is the person is afk.
- Lumbermancer
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumbermancer
Re: The final solution to the antag pop-up prompt question.
Come on guy, there are 18 antag options already, you think four or five more would make that big of a difference? You think Xeno is harder than shadowling or god's hand?MisterPerson wrote:Because we don't want 5000 different preference options that are literally newbie traps that exist mainly to keep them from actually getting to play xeno.
- MisterPerson
- Board Moderator
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:26 pm
- Byond Username: MisterPerson
Re: The final solution to the antag pop-up prompt question.
18 is already way too many. I don't mind them existing, I mind them defaulting off. There's no indication to new players that they need to do something to become an antag. Textbook newbie trap.
I code for the code project and moderate the code sections of the forums.
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
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- Github User
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:50 pm
- Byond Username: Xxnoob
- Github Username: xxalpha
Re: The final solution to the antag pop-up prompt question.
That's retarded reasoning. It's nothing obscure, it's a button in Preferences. If you can't expect a random person to figure this shit out, they shouldn't be playing this game anyways.
- ShadowDimentio
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
- Byond Username: David273
Re: The final solution to the antag pop-up prompt question.
Yeah sure lets have it so that Pubbie McFirstGame's options default to having all antag options set to 'yes' by default and get bombarded with new rules before they even have a grasp of basic game mechanics so they can burst in the hall as blob/shoot their teammates in nuke/hatch in the bar as shadowling, promptly get fucking atomized because they have no idea what they're doing, and leave the game forever.MisterPerson wrote:18 is already way too many. I don't mind them existing, I mind them defaulting off. There's no indication to new players that they need to do something to become an antag. Textbook newbie trap.Lumbermancer wrote:Come on guy, there are 18 antag options already, you think four or five more would make that big of a difference? You think Xeno is harder than shadowling or god's hand?MisterPerson wrote:Because we don't want 5000 different preference options that are literally newbie traps that exist mainly to keep them from actually getting to play xeno.
What are you fucking talking about
The antag system we have in place is perfect. Newbies get to play as a relatively uncomplicated crewmember up until they feel ready to try their hand at antag, and set it themselves. If they can't figure that out, they ask either in OOC, adminhelp, or IC how to cut it on, whereupon they get an answer.
Basically, if you're not good enough to know how to either set your antag to yes or ask how to do it, you shouldn't be fucking playing antag.
Spoiler:
- Lumbermancer
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumbermancer
Re: The final solution to the antag pop-up prompt question.
I think Head roles are disabled for new players on the server for the X period, right? Ain't Antag roles the same? If not, they should be. The more "difficult" ones. Problem solved.
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- Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 6:53 pm
- Byond Username: Cheimon
Re: The final solution to the antag pop-up prompt question.
I don't see why a final solution is needed for any of this. Iteratively improving on the system is working fine, and there are plenty of antag prompts where it's fine to have a pop up looking for interested players rather than the opposite. Can you imagine if someone wanted a holoparasite and it picked 5 people, all of whom didn't want it? They'd be waiting quite a while for someone to finally agree to play for them if the system was one of rejection and not acceptance.
- Lumbermancer
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumbermancer
Re: The final solution to the antag pop-up prompt question.
That's a not even remotely realistic. Everyone who ghosts or suicides at around start is a powergamer and antag-fisher. You won't ever have problems getting parasite.
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- Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 6:53 pm
- Byond Username: Cheimon
Re: The final solution to the antag pop-up prompt question.
Well, I observe a fair bit, and I'm often not interested in these roles. I'm sure a number of people aren't. I do, however, keep my preferences for them for two reasons, (1) because I decide whether I want to or not at the time, and (2) so that I know how often these roles are coming up. I can then follow them or whatever.
Now, let's suppose that there are 20 ghosts. Of them, 15 have holoparasite toggled on. Of that, 7 are interested in playing as one, and 7 just want to watch. Of that 15, a number also aren't paying attention: they may have it open in a second screen, be having a bathroom break, having a conversation, whatever.
If the system just picks one out of the 15, it stands a good chance of selecting someone who wasn't interested. They may even be unaware they've been picked. So, either they select no immediately, or if they were afk the system waits 10 seconds to exit them from the holoparasite. They may even not notice the prompt and have wanted it, although this is perhaps less likely.
You then have to roll again. Still good chances of getting someone that didn't want it. It's not implausible that this could happen several times before holoparasite gets taken by someone that actually wanted it in the first place. Lots of people will want it, but plenty with holoparasite toggled on also won't.
This is why an opt-in toggle makes more sense. Everyone that wants one will click the button, and it therefore automatically filters out everyone that didn't want to be a holoparasite and everyone that wasn't paying attention. I can't see how your proposed system is in any way better, unless somehow pushing 'yes' on a prompt is some really bothersome task: you'll have to click 'yes' anyway, except this time you'll be pushed into the holoparasite whether you're sure about it or not.
Now, let's suppose that there are 20 ghosts. Of them, 15 have holoparasite toggled on. Of that, 7 are interested in playing as one, and 7 just want to watch. Of that 15, a number also aren't paying attention: they may have it open in a second screen, be having a bathroom break, having a conversation, whatever.
If the system just picks one out of the 15, it stands a good chance of selecting someone who wasn't interested. They may even be unaware they've been picked. So, either they select no immediately, or if they were afk the system waits 10 seconds to exit them from the holoparasite. They may even not notice the prompt and have wanted it, although this is perhaps less likely.
You then have to roll again. Still good chances of getting someone that didn't want it. It's not implausible that this could happen several times before holoparasite gets taken by someone that actually wanted it in the first place. Lots of people will want it, but plenty with holoparasite toggled on also won't.
This is why an opt-in toggle makes more sense. Everyone that wants one will click the button, and it therefore automatically filters out everyone that didn't want to be a holoparasite and everyone that wasn't paying attention. I can't see how your proposed system is in any way better, unless somehow pushing 'yes' on a prompt is some really bothersome task: you'll have to click 'yes' anyway, except this time you'll be pushed into the holoparasite whether you're sure about it or not.
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