/tg/Station 13

I have a new concrete plan to alter the taser I plan to implement, but I am first going to gather feedback from you guys.

The plan is to adjust the taser to the following firing effect:

IF the person shot has less than 20 holo damage the taser will:

• do 30 holo damage.
• cause jittery 5.
• cause the person shot to drop his hand held items
• [optional] cause random stumbling aka to flash for 1 second

IF the person shot has more than 20 holo damage the taser will:

• stun 5
• do 30 holo damage.
• cause jittery 5.

Additional specifications

• The taser will hold 12 shots and have infinite range again.
• In addition the hybrid tasers will instead of a disabler have a light laser that does 10 burn damage and uses the same amount of charge.
• edit: Energy guns will fire tasers again, disablers on other weapons will be left unchanged.

In effect making the taser a 2 shot weapon and giving security a light lethal weapon.

This should give the taser a nice flavourful fire effect and still make it effective to catch people.

Goals of this taser change:

• Slightly shift away from stun based combat to lethal combat.
• Bring both the one shit stun/cuff/death from tasers and the beam spam of disablers to a nice middle ground.
• keep hybrid tasers interesting by adding a light backup lethal option.
• Keep securities power roughly the same.

I know we all hate change as much as Stewie Griffon, but please calmly consider the plan. If you see huge glaring problems with this than please voice them and I am sure we can come to a solution.

Do you find this an interesting plan?

surely all lasers are light lasers

What do I think?

I think making the Taser a two shot stun weapon is fine, somewhat increases the skill ceiling and makes being hit once not instantly fatal.

Just fucking remove the taser if you don't want anybody to use it. Disablers already fill this role nearly exactly except for the held item drop.

There's a big difference between a three, possibly four, hit stun versus a two hit ranged stun.

There's always been a drive to remove all one shot stun weapons sans melee stun batons or similar. One shot stuns are effectivly a one shot kill in most ways, being able to tank two (or three if armour permits for certain antags) stun shots at least offers the defender a chance to defend themselves instead of spouting "gg" as they prepare to die.

Saegrimr wrote:Just fucking remove the taser if you don't want anybody to use it. Disablers already fill this role nearly exactly except for the held item drop.

Wasn't that the case at one point? Tasers got removed and replaced by cargo disablers? Sec got angry.

Saegrimr wrote:Just fucking remove the taser if you don't want anybody to use it. Disablers already fill this role nearly exactly except for the held item drop.

You did read the part where hybrid tasers get their disablers replaced?

How the fuck is a 2 shot stun with 12 shots available useless, it just makes no sense shouting that.

• Bring both the one shit stun/cuff/death from tasers and the beam spam of disablers to a nice middle ground.

I get the feeling you did not sit down calmly and absorb all the information.

Lumbermancer wrote:

Saegrimr wrote:Just fucking remove the taser if you don't want anybody to use it. Disablers already fill this role nearly exactly except for the held item drop.

Wasn't that the case at one point? Tasers got removed and replaced by cargo disablers? Sec got angry.

The problem is that disablers were implemented lousy, they are a complete beam spamfest and stamina damage takes way too long to wear off.


And yes this change is meant to also move away from disablers. Perhaps changing energy guns back to shooting (new) tasers after this would also be a good thing.

edit: you know what, lets make changing energy guns to fire new tasers instead of disablers also to fall within the scope of this proposal.

I like it. The first shot making the target drop their weapon is crucial; it means it's still a one-shot 'stun', but it's not.. a one-shot stun.

CPTANT wrote:I get the feeling you did not sit down calmly and absorb all the information.

Because the roundabout way of getting here is completely retarded.

"I hate stuns waa"
So disablers get shoved onto everybody.
Then tasers get added back anyway
Then disablers get improved so they aren't complete garbage
Now you want to remove disablers and make tasers into some halfway point between tasers and disablers.

Just change the disablers, its already there doing the job you want it without the item drop. This back and forth needs to stop.

I don't think ranged one hit stuns were ever removed.

Disablers are a utterly unfinished concept, the people who made it either abandoned it or were banned thus the whole concept has been left in a unfinished state even to today.

Two shot ranged stuns are a more well received concept on many other code bases due to the higher skill ceiling as well as offering a more interesting fight. Its just that we went in a roundabout way to achieve this goal with the introduction of disablers.

The thing I hate most about tasers is the half screen range, it means they're useless in pursuit.

Malkevin wrote:The thing I hate most about tasers is the half screen range, it means they're useless in pursuit.

Good, since they will get full range again.

Saegrimr wrote:

CPTANT wrote:I get the feeling you did not sit down calmly and absorb all the information.

Because the roundabout way of getting here is completely retarded.

"I hate stuns waa"
So disablers get shoved onto everybody.
Then tasers get added back anyway
Then disablers get improved so they aren't complete garbage
Now you want to remove disablers and make tasers into some halfway point between tasers and disablers.

Just change the disablers, its already there doing the job you want it without the item drop. This back and forth needs to stop.

Don't blame me for trying to fix Paprka's shit from over a year ago.

I have literally suggested this before and got told it was stupid.

So you have my approval, though I'm iffy on giving tasers full screen range.

Considering the weapon drop+slowdown on the first hit, this changes nothing for the most part but for the fact the target will at least have some, if insignificant chance, of actually retaliating before being stunned, which is nice.

Also anything that makes disabler-spam less prevalent is always a good thing.

Won't all this make disarm even more powerful? I can't count how many times I lost my taser or baton to a random shove. Especially in close quarters, when you want to tase perp but your ping pong is inferior.

Lumbermancer wrote:Won't all this make disarm even more powerful? I can't count how many times I lost my taser or baton to a random shove. Especially in close quarters, when you want to tase perp but your ping pong is inferior.

If they can manage to get close enough with the holodamage slowdown, confused effect giving random movement, THEN getting a successful disarm without you hitting them a 2nd time, they probably earned that disarm.

According to the security statistics successful disarms happen before any attempt at disabling. In real life guy that disarms you wouldn't have holo damage at all. And you removing the instant stun capability only makes it more powerful.

Now I don't think it's a huge deal, you would need to change tactics quite a bit. Just saying it to consider everything.

If the first shot actually flashed them, as well as doing flash-like stumbling, that'd help.

TheNightingale wrote:If the first shot actually flashed them, as well as doing flash-like stumbling, that'd help.

That might actually be pretty dope

Keep in mind by the way that making people stumble drunkenly would make it an absolute pain in the ass to make followup shots on

Flash is already barely used, mostly to subdue borgs. Why do you want to make it even less useful?

This might actually be cool to try at least

EDIT: I would also like to humbly offer basil as a test ground for new stuff, that we may bathe in the blood of pubbies with new features

Stumbling randomly is going to make the second shot way harder to land. That's why the flash effect isn't that useful on people. If I'm chasing someone, they're running in a straight line, I fire twice, their random stumbling gives a good chance of making the second shot miss where it would otherwise land.

Just realised Shaps already said that. Well, whatever, yeah, so long as it's optional I wouldn't use it.

How long will someone be down for compared to a taser shot? That was the key problem with steelpoint's two-shot security pistols. They each did something like 50 stamina damage, but the person would be down for a much shorter time, so it was basically required for you to follow up with a stunbaton if you wanted to slap cuffs on after taking a second to walk up to them.

Cheimon wrote:Stumbling randomly is going to make the second shot way harder to land. That's why the flash effect isn't that useful on people. If I'm chasing someone, they're running in a straight line, I fire twice, their random stumbling gives a good chance of making the second shot miss where it would otherwise land.

Just realised Shaps already said that. Well, whatever, yeah, so long as it's optional I wouldn't use it.

How long will someone be down for compared to a taser shot? That was the key problem with steelpoint's two-shot security pistols. They each did something like 50 stamina damage, but the person would be down for a much shorter time, so it was basically required for you to follow up with a stunbaton if you wanted to slap cuffs on after taking a second to walk up to them.

Same stun time as the current taser.

Unless you are somehow already pumped full of stamina damage in which case it might be longer as the stamina damage wears off.

Personally I think stamina damage regenerates too slowly currently and speeding up stamina regen might be a good idea.

2 shots to stun is bad, 30 holo per hit with additional stun every shot is pretty nutty (good luck ever walking at full speed ever again), tase-and-lase (especially if you have two of them), really just not a good idea

Wyzack wrote:This might actually be cool to try at least

EDIT: I would also like to humbly offer basil as a test ground for new stuff, that we may bathe in the blood of pubbies with new features

>testing combat mechanics on the fag rp server

Idea so top, much good

Basil hit a higher pop than sybil yesterday at 55 vs 54, Basil isn't dead anymore

disablers and stam damage in general is complete cancer. It takes so fucking long to wear off, that even if you recover from a stun you're still utterly fucked unless you have a gun of your own, as you move slower then walk speed for what seems forever.

Atleast with stuns if they're not able to successfully cuff you (which happens for various reasons) you have an actual chance to fight or flee.

Why has stam damage recovery STILL not been fixed? I thought it recovering that slowly was a bug

One hit stuns are needed for combat with enemies armed with REAL syndicate grade lethal firearms. Like 4 shot stun isn't some magical shit from upon high people will just sit there and tank it and blast your face off.

Not sure 2 hit stuns will fill the same role.

Incomptinence wrote:One hit stuns are needed for combat with enemies armed with REAL syndicate grade lethal firearms. Like 4 shot stun isn't some magical shit from upon high people will just sit there and tank it and blast your face off.

Not sure 2 hit stuns will fill the same role.

First shot disarms them so the odds should become a lot more even.

Artyom returns

You guys want to get rid of stun combat? Then drop down more guns. Expand the armory and toss down a bunch of laser rifles everywhere, more laser rifles than there are crew in the game with them having tons of ammo. Game will change to revolve around people spamming tons of guns at each other rather than stunprod > whack > ded

You don't remember the guns steelpoint put all over the armory?

All that did was negate nuke ops and piss off asimov.

Yes, and it was fun

It gave legitimacy to a role that I had never played a great deal of up to that point because you didn't feel completely shit. You felt like you had an actual purpose and you felt powerful. You took solace in that power, and then got shat on by a nuke op with a much better gun. His pistols were fine, it was literally a meme to hate on them. They also did literally nothing to Nuke Ops because of how bullet-based stamina damage works. Bullet armor reduced it at a flat rate, so the 55 stamina per shot they did was quite literally five stamina damage per shot on a Nuke Op, meaning it was worthless outside of lethal ammo, which was only in the armory.

Also in his old iteration the pistols did pure stamina damage, no brute, so AIs did not get pissed off about it.

Zilenan91 wrote:Yes, and it was fun

this one is wildly subjective. getting gunned down as a nonantag every other round for hugging a sec officer was not exactly fun

That's just what happens. You don't jog up on a fully armed man and attempt to touch him, you're going to get shot. That's what happens in real-life.

>real life

Zilenan91 wrote:That's just what happens. You don't jog up on a fully armed man and attempt to touch him, you're going to get shot. That's what happens in real-life.

that's aside from the point that it's not fun

Aw jeeze, auto rifles were not that bad and in retrospect they were not that powerful to begin with. Especailly since most higher level antags have high bullet resistance and if your shooting peeps in the hallway your main critical advantage was having ten more rounds to fire and magazines, which you had to order from cargo.

If your job was to kill constructs you would do better with a shotgun with buckshot (which is still on the map) since at close range that's about two to three shots to kill a Jugg, whereas a Rifle took 13 rounds.

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Zilenan91 wrote:That's just what happens. You don't jog up on a fully armed man and attempt to touch him, you're going to get shot. That's what happens in real-life.

that's aside from the point that it's not fun

I mean, if an officer just randomly shot you down in the hallways even right now for hugging him he'd probably get banned unless it was rev or something.

if we had more lasers, less stuns, we should then remove cloning so people would actually consider perhaps surrendering, if the only alternative was possibly dying for good

or maybe not, people would probably still just fight to the death who knows

Remove cloning 2k16.

Who knows, throw these Taser-Lasers to Officers, remove cloning and give the Warden his Autorifle back on Box and maybe things will be amusing to watch.

Remove Cloning from Medbay
Remove Autocloning
Remove Botany Cloning
Make Defib timing more strict
Gate the cloner behind R&D, raise the level requirements to make the boards
Give officers a lethal option

Death now matters.

Making death matter only benefits the robust people who play to win instead of to have fun. People should consider surrendering because it's good RP, not because it's the only option.
Porting Bay's targeting mechanic might help; click someone to target them, if they take any action (including move), you auto-fire.

imblyings wrote:if we had more lasers, less stuns, we should then remove cloning so people would actually consider perhaps surrendering, if the only alternative was possibly dying for good

or maybe not, people would probably still just fight to the death who knows

If anything removing cloning would just lead to more loweffort murderboners since all you have to do is deal 180 brute to someone right at roundstart and they're SOL for the next hour

Buff limit to 200-220 threshold for defib and up the research requirement for cloning while removing it from roundstart. Add an advanced defib to RnD that doubles the amount of time a person has before they're considered 'too far gone'.

A good RnD team will have a new cloning up in like 10-15 minutes. A bad RnD team means people may actually reconsider if rushing the nuke op with a toolbox is actually a sane idea.

Theres like 10 different ways to re-enter the rounds now anyway so getting killed isn't nearly as big as a deal as it used to be.

or how about instead of removing cloning you remove/severely nerf defibs :V

How is putting cloning behind a research wall that gets surpassed within 10-15 minutes, even less if someone competent is running RnD, count as 'removing'?

Cloning is suppose to be some sort of 'experimental' thing, considering apparently even central command doesn't have one themselves (this was the reasoning I got for assassination objectives counting when the body is on the shuttle so).