Remove the Gulag

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:20 pm #11922

Bottom post of the previous page:

I'd like to see prisoners get real pickaxes but the gulag would be easier to deposit prisoners.
I'm thinking a 2x2 area between airlocks, that contains: a flasher or two, remote openable doors.... and (heres the genius part) conveyors on the floor that go beyond the interior airlock

Reimoo · Post by **Reimoo** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:32 pm #11924

TheTerbs wrote:why would a gulag have windows

darkness and mines bro, cave full of Rwalls, also fix the ability to mine into space, thats fucking stupid, who cares if you have to surround it in Rwalls, no fucking windows, its a gulag
when i was in jail we didnt have fucking windows, we had a window but it was completely opaque you couldnt even see outside

escaping should be an arduous task, the mines should be filled with old corpses

the only hope for escape is to find the fabled wish granter, those who have gone to search for it rarely return, whether they found it or not is unknown

Genius, as always. Fund it.

Spoiler:

Gamarr · Post by **Gamarr** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:35 am #11935

Merge perma, gulag, and mining.

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:31 am #11972

If you follow me you will have fun

Become the pug, take the avatar, accept the lifestyle

Gulag has a chance of becoming something shitty, but fun, building up from the ashes, an ore request console would be helpful to

Because Perma blows dog dicks, I had more fun in real jail than Perma

Resprite a microwave, call it the ore-o-porter, when you put in a full sheet of materials you get supplies like clean gulag jumpsuits, or better picks, or just general supplies, 50 sheets = recipe that spits out items instead of food

Like I said a gulag shouldn't be a second Perma it should be a "horrible pit where we toss the scum, where only the most treacherous of mortals can tread"

Fuck even transporting criminals there, you toss them in the shuttle then send it from a terminal outside, not even sec wants to step in that pit for reasons of fear and an unspoken agreement that while they control what goes there, they cannot control what happens in there

deshi

deshi

basara

basara

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:04 am #12435

Much yes to Terbs.

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:59 am #12437

Cipher3 wrote:Much yes to Terbs.

thank you i try

for all of us

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:58 am #12787

Not gonna lie, the gulag being better than 'perma with mining' sounds more appealing the more I think about it in the context of some prison planet sec just dumps people. It needs to be remapped to have pre-existing blood splatters and look incredibly decrepit though.

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:44 am #12795

Decrepit but put some soap in there, dorms are a shit hole broken tiles, toss a corpse on the bed no blankets

Suicide notes in the mine, communal shower, food is rarely supplied, have a good supply of mushrooms sitting on the table

Small kitchen area, with the wish granter you can get supplies to make real food

Most of the mining gear has blood on it, smoke vendor though, smoking is cool

Entry gate has disgusting work uniforms, and a shaver, I suppose if a sec officer wants he can shave everyone before tossing them in, or people can do it themselves, shaved heads are also cool

No cameras, at all, this place is an old hazardous mine, reopened with no renovation, sink pours out welder fuel instead of water, wish granter gives you tons and tons of water tanks, for the hydro supplies it also gives you

Gulags czar gets unique crown, forged from bone, dipped in iron, gets some kind of robe, you know what just take king Vendricks set from Dark Souls 2 and make it look similar

No windows, no way to mine your way out except the wish granter, someone with an uplink implant can bust using an emag as usual, other than that only hope is guard murder or wish granter, to prevent massive disappointments and rages wish granter is more than likely to spawn, if it doesn't, in its place the old kings throne spawns giving gulag czar gear and a bunch of other useful shit for turning gulag into not shit

Mine has to be massive, dark, and fuckin spook, very easy to get lost in, mine is old, lots of things to be found there

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:58 am #12798

Would be interesting to see a abandoned and disused mine being reopen by NT to ship off their prisoners, have the Prisoner processing and small Security Checkpoint show off as being recently built yet the rest of the mine is in horribly condition.

AseaHeru · Post by **AseaHeru** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:16 pm #12875

I would see it having a few cameras though...
Also, the wishgranter sounds horrible, just have a sustenance vender.
the sink sounds like it will need so much snowflake.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:31 pm #12884

So I'm looking at the mining Z-Level right now, if this project was to go forward we would need to section off a whole part of the mining asteroid for the Gulag.

The entire exterior would have to be covered in a layer of R-Walls (With another rock layer for immersion sake).

The question is, how much of the mining asteroid should we cut off for the Gulag? I could push 75% of the asteroid South East, cut off the North West portion of the asteroid and make it into two separate asteroids. This would mean the abandoned mining base would end up on the Gulag Asteroid (Not a bad thing, would necessitate the removal of the hidden Space/Xeno suit, or at least relocating them to the Mining Asteroid.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:36 pm #12885

Put it on a different z-level? One of the empty ones? You can put something cooler where the gulag was for actual miners, like a mini asteroid belt with more high_chance turfs like there used to be for miners with jetpacks.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:39 pm #12887

I could place a new Gulag on the 6th Z-Level, its empty. Is the 6th Z-Level used for anything or accessible normally?

Kelenius · Post by **Kelenius** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:48 pm #12891

6th z-level is used for being empty.

You have a very high chance to getting there if you jump into space. It increases amount of time it takes to get to objects in space. Without it you'd end up somewhere almost instantly.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:18 pm #12904

For what its worth, here's a 15 minute make up of how the small Security side of a new Gulag might look like, the idea is that the Security section is the ONLY part that looks new and (relatively) clean, you can see a small hint of the older, rundown prisoner side at the north.

Spoiler:

The first room on the right is the dressing room where prisoners strip and change outfits with Security to over watch, mobile flashers are present and a door is adjacent if Security intervention is required. Once finished the Officer overwatching can open the shutters to let the prisoner move to the next room (I'll add a way to flush out a prisoner who decides to camp in the connection area). The last room is where the prisoner is ejected into the Gulag proper. As well as a area Security can enter into the Gulag if the need arises.

EDIT: If I proceed, I may approach the prisoner side as such.

The far left side is a abandoned docking port, it will mostly contain crate's, shipping offices and a rundown disused Cargo Ship. The middle section will be the "crew quarters", here will hold beds, kitchen, showers and other basic facilities. The Rightish side will be the mining area which extends northward's. Unlike Mining's Mine the Gulag's Mine will already be heavily mapped out and have pre set constructed tunnels.

AseaHeru · Post by **AseaHeru** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:32 pm #12918

Is it possible to add more z-levels?

Oh, and nice map Steel.

leibniz · Post by **leibniz** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:01 pm #12938

Right now there are no mining scanners at the gulag, not sure that the intention is to troll prisoners or something else.
I tested it a bit, the only thing I could reliably mine was metal (since I couldnt see anything else), it took me around 15 minutes to get 500 points, I had around 200+ at the 5 minutes mark.

Also, safety pickaxes (and shovels..? really?) are lame. Officers have flashes, flashbangs and radio headsets.

AseaHeru · Post by **AseaHeru** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:05 pm #12940

No scanners are from the fact that the gulag is pre-death-of-mining update.

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:56 pm #12956

AseaHeru wrote:I would see it having a few cameras though...
Also, the wishgranter sounds horrible, just have a sustenance vender.
the sink sounds like it will need so much snowflake.

We used to have a wish granter but this one isn't horribly OP

AseaHeru · Post by **AseaHeru** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:12 pm #12962

It also sounds sort of odd to give one to convicts but not give one to the head of the station.

Braindude · Post by **Braindude** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:15 pm #12963

TheTerbs wrote:Decrepit but put some soap in there, dorms are a shit hole broken tiles, toss a corpse on the bed no blankets

Suicide notes in the mine, communal shower, food is rarely supplied, have a good supply of mushrooms sitting on the table

Small kitchen area, with the wish granter you can get supplies to make real food

Most of the mining gear has blood on it, smoke vendor though, smoking is cool

Entry gate has disgusting work uniforms, and a shaver, I suppose if a sec officer wants he can shave everyone before tossing them in, or people can do it themselves, shaved heads are also cool

No cameras, at all, this place is an old hazardous mine, reopened with no renovation, sink pours out welder fuel instead of water, wish granter gives you tons and tons of water tanks, for the hydro supplies it also gives you

Gulags czar gets unique crown, forged from bone, dipped in iron, gets some kind of robe, you know what just take king Vendricks set from Dark Souls 2 and make it look similar

No windows, no way to mine your way out except the wish granter, someone with an uplink implant can bust using an emag as usual, other than that only hope is guard murder or wish granter, to prevent massive disappointments and rages wish granter is more than likely to spawn, if it doesn't, in its place the old kings throne spawns giving gulag czar gear and a bunch of other useful shit for turning gulag into not shit

Mine has to be massive, dark, and fuckin spook, very easy to get lost in, mine is old, lots of things to be found there

this is best

prisoners can take welder fuel from the sink, toss it at a guard and ignite them with a lighter from the smoke vendor, not sure if thats good or bad

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:19 pm #12964

Last update for the night, expanded things a bit. Do note that under normal game play conditions the area outside of the Sec Gulag is much, much darker.

Expanded the entry area, added a Wall Mounted Flasher and a Converyer belt to the connection hallway. Also added a Intercom outside the gateway so prisoners can cry endlessly to the eager ears of the Warden/Officer via a private channel.

Spoiler:

The tunnel connecting the new facility to the old.

Spoiler:

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:00 pm #12968

AseaHeru wrote:It also sounds sort of odd to give one to convicts but not give one to the head of the station.

I don't think you understand what the wish granter is, you have to find it. It's not just sitting on the table

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:59 am #13104

A little touch up on the design, ish.

Spoiler:

Kelenius · Post by **Kelenius** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:06 am #13109

Corridor is hella wide.

What's the purpose of a flasher at conveyor belt?

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:10 am #13112

The problem there is that it could allow someone to hide in their, and they can run against the conveyor belt, so a flash can be used to force the prisoner to move out if they refuse.

Also the corridor's wide because it's a first pass, I'll probley make it smaller.

AseaHeru · Post by **AseaHeru** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:34 pm #13128

Yes, the corridor looks really far too wide, perhaps two tiles would be better.

TheTerbs wrote:
AseaHeru wrote:It also sounds sort of odd to give one to convicts but not give one to the head of the station.
I don't think you understand what the wish granter is, you have to find it. It's not just sitting on the table

Apologies, from how you described it it appeared to me it would be in the kitchen area.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:03 am #13271

As Terbs said, security should literally be afraid to go into the gulag proper. Prisoners' territory, no 'safety-picks' or safe anything. The idea is to toss someone in and never look back.

Rolan7 · Post by **Rolan7** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:12 am #13272

AseaHeru wrote:Is it possible to add more z-levels?

Oh, and nice map Steel.

The number of z-levels is adjustable yeah, and I'm not aware of any limit.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:35 am #13274

Rolan7 wrote:
AseaHeru wrote:Is it possible to add more z-levels?

Oh, and nice map Steel.
The number of z-levels is adjustable yeah, and I'm not aware of any limit.

Having too many would actually be awful though, as you'd never reach the Derelict (read: Whatever place you actually want to find).

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:39 am #13296

That's like the opposite of what gulag actually is.

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:29 am #13305

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:That's like the opposite of what gulag actually is.

This is the pit from the dark knight rises

Gulag just sounds cool

Like that shitty prison in brazil that just a criminal city
Where you can do whatever you want in a concrete bunker with no escape

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:08 am #13306

I think it will be difficult to make Security concerned to enter the Gulag, even if you give the prisoners access to normal Pickaxe's Sec still has Stun Batons, Tasers, Riot Shields and Seclights (Which are a better light source than a flashlight).

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:19 pm #13325

Ugh are sec lights more padding to make sec officer more friendly to retards

Really fear would come more with numbers but the gulag is the same as killing someone so it couldn't get built up enough

It'll have to do as is until people realize gulag is fun lag and they should request to be sent there

Lovecraft · Post by **Lovecraft** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:21 pm #13326

I can't think of a single reason I would use the Gulag if it was changed into "prisoner's turf".
Even if perma was destroyed I would just lock them in a small room, or have them borged.
You're not in prison to have a good time.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:28 pm #13328

The biggest problem with the Perma Wing as it stands if that it ends someone's round for what may well be several hours. While I personally don't have a problem with that, I can see why its not the best thing.

The good thing about the Gulag is that it gives prisoners something to do, now if we expanded this to a larger more self-contained asteroid with more interesting locations, equipment and space, that might mean that being captured is not the end of your round, you're effectively off the station but you could still do something amusing on the Gulag.

(Also Seclites are just normal flashlights with a one extra light range and deal 9 brute damage on hit)

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:29 pm #13329

Lovecraft wrote:I can't think of a single reason I would use the Gulag if it was changed into "prisoner's turf".
Even if perma was destroyed I would just lock them in a small room, or have them borged.
You're not in prison to have a good time.

Someones shitcurity

I bet you bucklecuff people in Perma

You already took them out of the round at least toss them into a work camp where they can build shit and RP, everyone in Perma just commits suicide because nobody gives they a trial or at least tries to be creative

Or is that not good enough "gotta win fast gotta ruin dem rounds mane"

Lovecraft · Post by **Lovecraft** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:34 pm #13330

Yes
I even remove pens and papers from perma as well as soap
Why should a player be allowed to have fun as an antagonist when I'm Security

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:37 pm #13331

Lovecraft wrote:Yes
I even remove pens and papers from perma as well as soap
Why should a player be allowed to have fun as an antagonist when I'm Security

Because its video games

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:42 pm #13332

Steelpoint wrote:The biggest problem with the Perma Wing as it stands if that it ends someone's round for what may well be several hours.

It's not a problem, it's what it's designed for.

Prison is not a happy place with stuff to do. If you greytide - we end your round. No doing fun stuff for you. Prison shouldn't be desirable, prison should be punishing.

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:50 pm #13335

Prison is very much so a happy place with fun things to do

If you dont have shit to do in prison people go insane and eat their own shit

In prison we had games to play, cards, tv, books, exercise, and most of all the guards didn't give a shit, they were almost like lifeguards they just sat on their block tower and did nothing

You can end someone's round and give them something mundane to do, isn't putting someone in a room where they get bored and kill themselves a rule 1 violation? I mean this place is much less tolerant to dicks unlike before so Perma should change to suit that

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:54 pm #13337

Prison is essentially going brain dead, as that is what happens 90% of the time in my experience.

Think of a new Gulag as life after death, your basically dead to the round but you have something to do. Its an improvement.

What I hope to do is essentially create a mini-sandbox for prisoners where they can't escape (Unless they used the Uplink Implant) so it achieves the same effect of execution or permaing.

Lovecraft · Post by **Lovecraft** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:58 pm #13338

TheTerbs wrote:isn't putting someone in a room where they get bored and kill themselves a rule 1 violation?

Exactly how much thought went into this

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:01 pm #13339

Steelpoint wrote:Prison is essentially going brain dead, as that is what happens 90% of the time in my experience.

Think of a new Gulag as life after death, your basically dead to the round but you have something to do. Its an improvement.

What I hope to do is essentially create a mini-sandbox for prisoners where they can't escape (Unless they used the Uplink Implant) so it achieves the same effect of execution or permaing.

Exactly, I mean imagine its a 3 hour ling traitor round and you get random checked ten minutes in, under usual circumstances this is buttmad rage because you got caught by sec officer dicknose completely randomly, now with new Perma, you go to the gulag and work in a mine/refinery, legends of a wish granter eminate from the halls, it's littered with blood and corpses an suicide notes, you clear out the bodies and put up some walls, make some new beds and spend that round making yourself at home, when others get sent there you share the legend of the wish granter, the next hour is spent digging the tunnels, returning to smoke and eat, after digging for what feels like eternity you strike it, a bright light blinds you and you have the choice of starting a colony and becoming the gulag czar with ceremonial dress and crown and essentially a geck, or leaving your brothers to escape to a decrepit space station for a hope to make it back, you only get one. Or you dont find anything at all, which you probably won't

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:07 pm #13340

Steelpoint wrote:Prison is essentially going brain dead, as that is what happens 90% of the time in my experience.

Think of a new Gulag as life after death, your basically dead to the round but you have something to do. Its an improvement.

What I hope to do is essentially create a mini-sandbox for prisoners where they can't escape (Unless they used the Uplink Implant) so it achieves the same effect of execution or permaing.

Instead of creating something to do for victims of parapen+c4 you want to create something to do for the criminals?

Well that sure as hell makes a lot of sense. Not.

TheTerbs wrote:you get random checked ten minutes in, under usual circumstances this is buttmad rage because you got caught by sec officer dicknose completely randomly

That's absolutely separate problem. It has nothing to do with the prisons. By default, people in prison deserve it. The fact that you may get there because shit happened doesn't mean that we should change it.

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:09 pm #13342

The problem is that parapen c4 exist

But I mean hey we could just have everyone respawn in the gulag.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:33 pm #13347

Dude, perma is meant to be game over, its meant to suck.
Stop trying to babby it.

I'd rather we get stuff for ghosts to do, like respawning as a MoMMI

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:48 pm #13348

Malkevin wrote:Dude, perma is meant to be game over, its meant to suck.
Stop trying to babby it.

I'd rather we get stuff for ghosts to do, like respawning as a MoMMI

Everything else is pretty fucking babbied already, whats so babby about hard labor

Post by **ShizCalev** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:15 pm #13380

Why not place new gulag where the old t-com sat is (Z-3)? Not like it's really being used for anything anyway.

Could also purpose the old teleporter there too, that way there's a different method of transporting prisoners rather instead a shuttle. Would also provide a chance of something going horribly wrong, buwhahaha.

Post by **ShizCalev** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:06 am #13396

Oh god.

So I had this horrible idea for the most oppressive hellhole of a gulag ever.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/7nu ... /gulag.png

A warden/officer would sit on the chair to open the airlocks for a prisoner who's placed on that first conveyor behind a windoor. They would talk to the prisoner, making sure they understand their sentencing, and ask if they had any last requests. If the prisoner gets rowdy, you activate the flashers and send him through via the conveyors. Still fleshing it out more, but I should have a rough version of the whole thing done relatively quickly.

Updating as I progress

Lovecraft · Post by **Lovecraft** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:14 am #13397

Keep going, Shiz.