Bring identical armours in line with each other

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TheNightingale
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:07 pm
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Bring identical armours in line with each other

Post by TheNightingale » #161085

The problem:
Spoiler:
The standard armoured vest worn by Security and the Bartender has the following stats:
melee = 25, bullet = 15, laser = 25, energy = 10, bomb = 25, bio = 0, rad = 0
The security winter coat gives better protection against lasers:
melee = 25, bullet = 15, laser = 30, energy = 10, bomb = 25, bio = 0, rad = 0
The helmet and Sec beret have identical stats to the vest, but the Detective's fedora has 10 less bullet protection, and no bomb protection.
Weirdly, the Security baseball cap has better stats than the helmet:
melee = 30, bullet = 25, laser = 25, energy = 10, bomb = 0, bio = 0, rad = 0

Here's a good one - the Security/Detective/Warden/HoS jumpsuits (including naval) give +10 melee protection and a strip delay of 50 (60 for HoS), but the HoS's parade jumpsuits don't give any bonuses. The Captain's jumpsuit also gives no bonuses, including the parade jumpsuit.

The Warden's coat has the same stats as the Security vest, but covers all the limbs.
The Warden's cap and beret, however, have mixed stats (marginally better at melee, worse at bullet).
melee = 30, bullet = 5, laser = 25, energy = 10, bomb = 25, bio = 0, rad = 0

The HoS's trenchcoat and greatcoat are slight upgrades to the Warden's coat - they cover all the limbs, and offer slightly more armour.
melee = 30, bullet = 30, laser = 30, energy = 10, bomb = 25, bio = 0, rad = 0
The HoS's security overcoat (the other one in their locker) covers all the limbs... but only has standard armour stats.
The HoS's cloak (which is also in their locker, and also covers limbs) is stylish as heck, but has lower laser protection and can't hold things:
melee = 30, bullet = 30, laser = 10, energy = 10, bomb = 25, bio = 0, rad = 0

The HoS's cap and beret aren't as good as the trench/greatcoat, but are better than the overcoat.
melee = 40, bullet = 30, laser = 25, energy = 10, bomb = 25, bio = 10, rad = 0
The HoS's navy beret (not the black one) has standard beret stats, which are the same as the standard helmet.

The Captain's carapace and parade jacket are a huge upgrade to the armoured vest, but don't cover all limbs.
melee = 50, bullet = 40, laser = 50, energy = 10, bomb = 25, bio = 0, rad = 0
But the Captain's parade tunic is unarmoured, and can hold different things in its suit storage (the medal box, the disk, cigars, etc).
The Captain's cloak, however, is much less armoured and can't hold things, but covers all limbs and offers marginal bio/rad protection:
melee = 30, bullet = 30, laser = 30, energy = 10, bomb = 25, bio = 10, rad = 10
Both the Captain's hat and the Captain's parade hat have identical stats to the normal helmet (as well as the HoP's cap).
The Captain's winter coat offers less protection than the other options, and the hood is completely unarmoured:
melee = 25, bullet = 30, laser = 30, energy = 10, bomb = 25, bio = 0, rad = 0

The SWAT helmet is an upgrade to the normal helmet, but can't hold seclites:
melee = 40, bullet = 30, laser = 25,energy = 25, bomb = 50, bio = 10, rad = 0

The riot suit doesn't have slowdown any more, and protects fairly well against melee attacks:
melee = 50, bullet = 10, laser = 10, energy = 10, bomb = 0, bio = 0, rad = 0
But the riot helmet... has really weird stats. 41% melee resist, and 2% bio resist? The knight's helmets (HoG, Chaplain) have the same stats, despite being different paths (the riot helmet is /helmet/riot, the knight helmet is /helmet/knight, and these stats aren't inherited from /helmet).
melee = 41, bullet = 15, laser = 5,energy = 5, bomb = 5, bio = 2, rad = 0

The bulletproof helmet is better at resisting bullets and bombs than the normal helmet, but weaker against melee and lasers.
melee = 15, bullet = 40, laser = 10, energy = 10, bomb = 40, bio = 0, rad = 0
But the bulletproof armour is better than the helmet by far at deflecting bullets:
melee = 15, bullet = 80, laser = 10, energy = 10, bomb = 40, bio = 0, rad = 0

The green Central armour (adminspawn only)... offers no protection at all, despite looking just like a spacesuit.
And the Central hat worn by Central Command Officers is better than the Sec helmet, but worse than the baseball cap.
melee = 30, bullet = 15, laser = 30, energy = 10, bomb = 25, bio = 0, rad = 0
As you can see, armour stats make no sense at all.

The solution:
Spoiler:
Move the Security winter coat in line with the Security armoured vest (-5 laser).
Move the Security winter hood in line with the Security helmet and beret (so 25/15/25/10/25/0/0).
Move the Security baseball cap in line with the Security helmet and beret (-5 melee, -10 bullet).

Move the Detective's fedora in line with the Security helmet and beret (+10 bullet).

Buff the Warden's jacket to have better stats than the Security armoured vest (I'd suggest 30/25/30/15/25/0/0).
Move the Warden's cap and beret in line with the new Warden's jacket stats.

Buff the HoS's jackets to have better stats than the Warden's new jacket stats (I'd suggest 40/30/40/20/25/0/0).
Move the HoS's cloak and leather jacket in line with the HoS's new jacket stats, and let the cloak hold the same items.
Move the HoS's beret and cap in line with the HoS's new jacket stats.
Move the HoS's navy beret in line with the HoS's black beret/new jacket stats.
Move the HoS's parade suits in line with the Security jumpsuits (+10 melee).

Move the Captain's parade tunic and cloak in line with the parade jacket and carapace (50/40/50/10/25/0/0) and let them hold the same items.
Move the Captain's cap, parade cap and winter hood in line with the parade jacket and carapace, but keep the HoP cap where it is.
Move the Captain's winter coat in line with the parade jacket and carapace.
Buff the Captain's jumpsuit and parade jumpsuit to have 10 melee protection, like the Security or HoS's.

Buff the riot suit to protect more against melee (+10 melee, for a total of 60% when using a security jumpsuit).
Move the riot helmet in line with the new riot suit's stats (where did that 41 melee resist even come from?).
Move the Chaplain's armour to be almost as good as the riot suit (the old stats of 50/10/10/10/0/0/0).

Move the bulletproof helmet in line with the bulletproof armour (+40 bullet resist, to 80).

Buff the Central Command armour (adminspawn only) to be better than the Captain's space armour (I'd suggest 60/50/50/30/50/100/50) and make it spaceworthy.
Move the Central Command hat (adminspawn only) in line with the new Central Command armour, and make it spaceworthy.
(Note that Central Command officers wear bulletproof armour, not the Central Command armour! They have Central Command hats, though.)
This mostly moves identical armours in line with each other (the Captain's gear, the HoS's gear, the Security outfits) in line with each other, but it also makes the Warden slightly more armoured than an Officer, and the HoS slightly more armoured than the Warden. It also buffs the riot suit and Central Command (not DS) gear.

It also means wearing a baseball cap and winter coat isn't the Security meta (it's now the same as wearing the normal armour and helmet), and that the HoS doesn't suffer an armour penalty for wearing the parade suits with the cloak. The Captain is now free to dress up in parade gear without sacrificing armour, as well.
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Ikarrus
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Re: Bring identical armours in line with each other

Post by Ikarrus » #161089

Is this really a problem, though? We don't need to make them all identical just to appease min/maxers

HoS doesn't need a third supercoat. I gave it to him to replace the standard security vest he had, as "casual" wear.

I thought the whole point of the parade armor was to intentionally broadcast yourself as comdom who cares more about inappropriate style than actual substance. I'd rather the armor values match/add to the flavor than needing everything to be the same.
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TheNightingale
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Re: Bring identical armours in line with each other

Post by TheNightingale » #161100

At the moment, minmaxers can already minmax - a Captain with the security baseball cap and jumpsuit has...
{Head} +5 melee resist, +10 bullet resist
{Body} +10 melee resist

And that's compared to the standard Captain's hat/carapace outfit. Let's contrast 'minmax Captain' with 'parade Captain'.
Minmax Captain has, compared to the parade Captain...
{Head} +30 melee resist, +25 bullet resist, +25 laser resist, +10 energy resist, -5 bomb resist
{Body} +60 melee resist, +40 bullet resist,+50 laser resist, +10 energy resist, and +25 bomb resist.

So it takes 10 toolbox hits at force 10 to crit a parade Captain (aiming at the body), 20 to crit a normal Captain, and 25 to crit a minmax Captain.
How about a null rod (15 brute)? 7 for a parade Captain, 14 to crit a normal Captain, and 17 to crit a minmax Captain.
A stetchkin (30 brute) aiming at the head? 4 for a parade Captain, 6 for a normal Captain, and 7 for a minmax Captain.
A revolver (60 brute) aiming at the head? 2 for a parade Captain, 3 for a normal Captain, and 4 for a minmax Captain.

It's like how the Security berets have the same stats as the helmets; choosing between style and protection either makes you look silly, or gets you killed. And some of the armours just plain don't make sense - 41 brute resist and 2 bio resist for the riot helmet? 40 bullet resist for the bulletproof helmet, but 80 for the body?
Bringing the equivalent armours in line with each other means the people who wear them can choose, rather than having to pick only the 'best' option. You don't see Captains wear their parade armour often, which is a shame, since it looks pretty good.
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Wyzack
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Re: Bring identical armours in line with each other

Post by Wyzack » #161127

Armor on all clothing items is fucking dumb.
Picking style over substance used to mean something. If the captain's parade tunic gets turned into armor I am going to start a riot
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Ikarrus
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Re: Bring identical armours in line with each other

Post by Ikarrus » #161131

Yeah, I much prefer playing with good flavour and making things intuitively useful, rather than boiling things down to numbers for combat first and cosmetics as this shallow afterthought.

Armored berets are shit for this reason. Get rid of them.
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Wyzack
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Re: Bring identical armours in line with each other

Post by Wyzack » #161132

^^^^this is objectively correct. If you want to powergame your armor deal with the fashion consequences
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Ikarrus
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Re: Bring identical armours in line with each other

Post by Ikarrus » #161133

Yes, on the upside minmaxers will obviously appear to be mixmaxers more often because they walk around with ridiculous outfits all the time.
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Zilenan91
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Re: Bring identical armours in line with each other

Post by Zilenan91 » #161174

PkPenguin unified head armor values a while ago.
Spoiler:
Zilenan91 wrote:
Just replace both their arms with chainsaws.

HAVE FUN ESCAPING NOW WITH NO ARMS
TheNightingale
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:07 pm
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Re: Bring identical armours in line with each other

Post by TheNightingale » #161175

Image

Okay, that's weird... I'll just download the latest--
Well. That explains a lot.
Night, don't make suggestions based off of old code!

I was right about the rest of it, though, as I think only the Sec helmets/berets/caps were changed; the Captain's hat is now statistically inferior to a Security beret.
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