Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide.

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Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide.

Postby Lumbermancer » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:31 pm #185495

Current Gulag is rarely used. It takes a lot time to properly process prisoners (longer than to perma them), and it's not very safe - the gulag was designed with cooperation of prisoner in mind. Which never happens.


Thanks to the wonders of Bluespace technology, all this is about to change.

Transfer center will receive X number of telepods, and bluespace prisoner IDs. Upon receiving a delinquent, all you have to do is:

1. take BLUESCPACE PRISONER ID from ID CONSOLE
2. set its point limit in the console
3. Shove the prisoner into Telepod (clothed and cuffed) and lock it
4. Put Prisoner ID into the Telepod
5. Push button labeled "ENGAGE THE SENTENCE"

That's it. Telepod will automatically:

-Spit out your cuffs
-Remove all clothing and items of person and replace them with prison garb and prepared ID
-teleport the prisoner to the Gulag

Prisoners items are left behind in the Telepod. The pod itself is marked with green "OCCUPADO" and rendered IN USE.

When slave miner digs his share of metal and claims the points, his BLUESPACE PRISONER ID starts to beep. All he has to do is use it in his hands to get transported back to his telepod. Pod opens and he can pick up his items. Prison garb disappears and ID gets ported back to ID console for reuse.

The fear of swift and stern punishment resocializes the petty criminal, who will rejoin the law abiding society as a changed man.
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Jazaen » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:34 pm #185497

But wouldn't this require a set amount of pods? There would be only so many people that could be there, and sooner or later the ones going braindead on gulag would make the whole system unusable.
Also, how would sec get there?
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Lumbermancer » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:37 pm #185498

It would. I think there must be a limited number of pods (2-3 maybe?) to not make it END OF ALL CRIME solution.

There still would be the normal shuttle. You could grab braindeads and reset the telepod. There must be some drawbacks.
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Reece » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:38 pm #185500

>How would sec get there.
You seem to be implying that the gulag isn't just a more grim perma.

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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Lumbermancer » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:39 pm #185501

It is right now. I'd like to make it a "tougher cell" instead, one you can't just alt+tab through your sentence in.
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby cocothegogo » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:44 pm #185503

this is a good idea gulag should be used more
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Bolien » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:12 pm #185547

I like this, a lot.

Processing a gulag prisoner takes a load of time, time which could be spent helping out your fellow officers, managing the brig, or processing those in cells.
I mean with security's current population, spending this much time kind of forces perma sentence's (or executions) instead of the gulag.

Also, getting back to the station via hitting your point quota has always seemed nebulous to those unfamiliar with it.
This change would make the gulag more efficient for both the jailer and the prisoner.

+1
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Armhulen » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:18 pm #185548

I like it, maybe we should eventually put a prison guard. I always hated it how gulag was just empty, devoid of life. Put in one prisoner and he goes braindead, put in two and they break out.
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Atlanta-Ned » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:53 pm #185551

I'm in favor of something like this. Security lacks a way to truly "punish" a prisoner.

The timed cells are too easy to break out of or grief with
The gulag is a pandora's box of security getting their shit kicked in by people trying to escape (even if they're a non-antag, seriously, fuck you)
and the prison just gets hit by a meteor and vented EVERY. SINGLE. ROUND.
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby phil235 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:05 pm #185560

I like the idea. You can even make the system faster by having the machine create and equip the bluespace prisoner ID directly on the prisoner just before teleporting them to gulag. All you'd have to do is put the criminal in the machine, set the point limit on the computer and push the "send to gulag" button.

I think it might be better to have a single pod, if we can manage for the pod to store the belongings of each prisoner and drop the correct ones when a specific prisoner is released then it'd be doable. Although your version has the advantage of informing people in the brig whether there is someone currently in the gulag or not.

We can make the idea even more awesome by having the machine set the prisoner's security status when they arrive and leave the gulag ("prisoner", "released").

Not sure if making an ID that detect when you mine is doable though, we might have to keep the current smelting machine to retrieve points. Also it'd be a good idea to teleport the produced sheets back to the station automatically.
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Lumbermancer » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:45 pm #185570

phil235 wrote:I like the idea. You can even make the system faster by having the machine create and equip the bluespace prisoner ID directly on the prisoner just before teleporting them to gulag. All you'd have to do is put the criminal in the machine, set the point limit on the computer and push the "send to gulag" button.


I wanted to have you put ID into Pod first to "link them". I dislike full automation.

phil235 wrote:I think it might be better to have a single pod, if we can manage for the pod to store the belongings of each prisoner and drop the correct ones when a specific prisoner is released then it'd be doable.


I think it's better to have the Telepod limit. There must be limitations to not render main cell system obsolete, also minimal busywork is required.

phil235 wrote:We can make the idea even more awesome by having the machine set the prisoner's security status when they arrive and leave the gulag ("prisoner", "released").


Sure.

phil235 wrote:Not sure if making an ID that detect when you mine is doable though, we might have to keep the current smelting machine to retrieve points


That's actually what I was thinking . It would work the same way, only the ID would let you TP back after reaching the point threshold. Simple.
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Scott » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:06 pm #185585

Ah yes, more shit for security to abuse.

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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Atlanta-Ned » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:30 pm #185601

Scott wrote:Ah yes, more shit for security to abuse.


Thank you for this insightful feedback.
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Bolien » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:24 pm #185630

Atlanta-Ned wrote:
Scott wrote:Ah yes, more shit for security to abuse.


Thank you for this insightful feedback.
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Sidon » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:55 pm #185687

Remove perma and replace it with this or just remove the gulag

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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Screemonster » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:06 pm #185696

Rather than limiting the number of pods, could maybe have it spit the prisoner's belongings into a locker that's locked to their prisoner ID.

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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Falamazeer » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:18 pm #185700

Or, keep perma, remove timed cells and replace it with this.

Another idea is to stabilize the time to point ratio, wherin nobody knows if the 200 point sentence for littering is excessive or not. make the whole meteor the gulag is mining iron (or plasma whatever's cheap) and normal rock, then you can really account for how long a dedicated miner should be working for a given point value, And not have the 2000 point murdering clown hit diamond and walk in thirty seconds, while the 200 point litterer toils all day mining the leftovers from the last few people who were gulaged and walked.
tl;dr Make the mining asteroid have all the ore, and the less profitable gulag asteroid be cheaper to streamline and coordinate sentencing.


the easy mining being already done is something you're gonna wanna account for if the gulag actually became streamlined and worth a fuck.
That and the glass, metal, plasteel becoming an easier resource would free the miners for the real fun.

And you could track it at the end of round, Security efficiency rating 90% 8900 points assigned; 8010 points collected!
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby kevinz000 » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:41 am #185789

This sounds like a huge buff to security that will be abused

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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Bolien » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:00 am #185829

kevinz000 wrote:This sounds like a huge buff to security that will be abused


I feel like criticisms should be constructive, do you care to elaborate?
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Incomptinence » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:23 am #185830

Honestly with pansy borgs people start dismembering prisoners with fire axes while standing right next to cyborgs.

If sec wants to abuse you they have worse ways.

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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Scott » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:55 am #185835

Bolien wrote:
kevinz000 wrote:This sounds like a huge buff to security that will be abused


I feel like criticisms should be constructive, do you care to elaborate?


Sec players are generally shit and you can't trust them not to abuse this, since server policy is currently very lenient towards Security.

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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Steelpoint » Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:05 am #185837

Abuse throwing people into prison?

Almost like actions can have consequences. What this change will do is make it easier for Officers to dispense justice quickly and efficiently in a fair manner. Throwing someone into a timed cell is lengthily and not a good punishment, throwing someone into perma is usually permanent until they break out and run for a airlock.

The Gulag in theory forces someone to work for their freedom, but right now it takes way, way too much effort to get someone down to perma, it can take upwards of ten minutes to get someone undressed, redressed and sent down on a shuttle.

The only way this can be abused is if a unfair sentence is given, which is already covered by the admins so eh.

------

What would be amusing to further make a Tele-Gulag quicker is to offer two "punishment" point menus.

One menu lets you enter a number to set the amount of mining points needed to get out.

The other menu lets you select any number of Crimes from a list (space law), each crime would have a point value attached. This can let you quickly give out a sentance based on the crime.
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Atlanta-Ned » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:20 pm #185871

Steelpoint wrote:
The other menu lets you select any number of Crimes from a list (space law), each crime would have a point value attached. This can let you quickly give out a sentance based on the crime.


Thusly codifying space law into code. Dear god, no.



Also I'm not buying these arguments that most of security players are "shit".
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Jacough » Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:46 pm #185905

Scott wrote:Ah yes, more shit for security to abuse.


Protip: to avoid getting thrown in the gulag don't be a sociopathic asshole.
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Scott » Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:49 pm #185906

I am not the one who feels the need to control everything and everyone.

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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby lzimann » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:02 pm #185908

I was looking for something to code, I might give this a shot if no one is working on it already, won't promise anything though

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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Screemonster » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:04 pm #185955

Scott wrote:I am not the one who feels the need to control everything and everyone.

YOU GOTTA FIGHT


FOR YOUR RIGHT


TO BREAK WIIIIIIIINNNDOWS

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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby PKPenguin321 » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:22 pm #185959

Atlanta-Ned wrote:Also I'm not buying these arguments that most of security players are "shit".

doesn't play confirmed :^)
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Bolien » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:23 pm #185960

What confuses me about the criticism that it will be abused is that to me, the gulag is kind of a better alternative to execution, perma, or force borging (depending on player).
It offers a player a way to redemption, even if the jailer is shit and sets the points to max.

Also, this new system would ideally get rid of shit jailers throwing people in gulag with no ID, which is ACTUAL abuse.
So if anything what has been proposed here is cutting down on sec's ability to abuse the gulag.
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Zellion » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:31 pm #185967

Remove timed cells and replace them with this.

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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Jacough » Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:38 pm #185992

Zellion wrote:Remove timed cells and replace them with this.

Problem with that is that most shitters immediately go brain dead if they get a gulag sentence instead of a timed sentence since they can't just alt tab out of the game to read their chinese comics until their sentence is up. That's the only problem I see with the pods system. A fixed teleportation system seems like a better alternative.
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby TechnoAlchemist » Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:44 pm #185994

The whole point of using the gulag is so shitters go catatonic it's amazing and efficient

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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby InsaneHyena » Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:50 pm #185998

> Be me
> Get sent to gulag with 9001 points to mine
> Eventually do it.
> Come back to the station
> Loudly demand security to get me out of the brig
> Everybody's dead, Dave

Every fucking time.
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Screemonster » Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:58 pm #186001

Jacough wrote:Problem with that is that most shitters immediately go brain dead if they get a gulag sentence instead of a timed sentence since they can't just alt tab out of the game to read their chinese comics until their sentence is up.

this sounds like the opposite of a problem

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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Pilgrim » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:11 pm #186008

Screemonster wrote:
Jacough wrote:Problem with that is that most shitters immediately go brain dead if they get a gulag sentence instead of a timed sentence since they can't just alt tab out of the game to read their chinese comics until their sentence is up.

this sounds like the opposite of a problem
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby kevinz000 » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:42 pm #186179

Bolien wrote:
kevinz000 wrote:This sounds like a huge buff to security that will be abused


I feel like criticisms should be constructive, do you care to elaborate?

Well lets see, security has enough ways of dealing with greytiders then throwing them on the most hostile map ever created, as IMO lavaland is harder to do then away missions and if a prisoner runs into a goliath/watcher it's probably over unless they have the right tools/the gulag somehow has high enough brute weapons to deal with them. Or they could run away.
Don't need to draw more people, even greytiders, off station. Space station 13, not lavaland station 13.
My arguements suck but you get the idea right?
Also yeah some people will abuse it to shit and ruin it for everyone so better not add it in the first place

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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Lumbermancer » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:20 pm #186190

InsaneHyena wrote:>Loudly demand security to get me out of the brig.


Push the exit button on the wall you silly goose.
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Ezel » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:35 pm #186466

kevinz000 wrote:
Bolien wrote:
kevinz000 wrote:This sounds like a huge buff to security that will be abused


I feel like criticisms should be constructive, do you care to elaborate?

Well lets see, security has enough ways of dealing with greytiders then throwing them on the most hostile map ever created, as IMO lavaland is harder to do then away missions and if a prisoner runs into a goliath/watcher it's probably over unless they have the right tools/the gulag somehow has high enough brute weapons to deal with them. Or they could run away.
Don't need to draw more people, even greytiders, off station. Space station 13, not lavaland station 13.
My arguements suck but you get the idea right?
Also yeah some people will abuse it to shit and ruin it for everyone so better not add it in the first place


dont they have normal pickaxes now
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby lzimann » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:39 pm #186542

Gulag-zone shouldn't have any mobs spawning(i think it's just bugged right now) on it and the pickaxes were supposed to be the 0 damage one(or low damage ones).
Regardless, the teleporter is almost ready and I'll probably make a PR in the next days.

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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby onleavedontatme » Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:01 pm #186551

They have normal pickaxes because "safety pickaxe" is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Falamazeer » Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:09 pm #186557

Kor wrote:They have normal pickaxes because "safety pickaxe" is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

I'm fine with damage, but it would be really handy if they didn't have knock down.

I mean, if we're talking about ways to safely detain someone in the gulag, that'd be a good start, because some people are re-DONK-ulously robust at this game.
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Luke Cox » Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:00 am #186887

Give security a teleporter, and put a beacon in the gulag.
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby PKPenguin321 » Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:10 am #186894

imo the gulag would work better if it was on the same z-level as the station
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Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Zilenan91 » Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:57 am #186910

That's perma. A Gulag wouldn't make sense on the same z unless there's a planet map.
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Atlanta-Ned
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:11 pm
Byond Username: Atlanta-ned

Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Atlanta-Ned » Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:43 am #186919

Sounds like we need to bring back P R I S O N S T A T I O N
Feedback pls (Don't bother though, because I am perfect)
### ListVarEdit by Atlanta-ned: /datum/reagents reagent_list: Water=/obj/item/weapon/gun/energy/alien
IcePacks wrote:>all you have is a taser and the cold realization that you're a haphazard bandaid over a problem that may or may not exist, applied by someone who doesn't know or care enough about their job to do it properly

OOC: Pizzatiger: God damn Atlanta, how are you so fucking smart and charming. It fucking pisses me off how perfect you are

Raven776
 
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:51 pm
Byond Username: Raven776

Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby Raven776 » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:45 am #186942

An officer tried to put me in the gulag for repurposing the auxiliary storage room into an office after it was ransacked for lavaland colonization. Security aren't harbingers of infallible justice. They're just players on one side of the computer who do weird memes like the rest of us.

No reason to make taking someone out of the round easier. You put someone on the gulag with no comms and 10k points, no one's ever going to know. Make the gulag easier to get out of by actually mining. The shitters will braindead anyways. But put a limit on the maximum amount of points you can put someone in for.

Making it easier to put someone in the gulag just makes it easier to put an arbitrary point limit on someone and make them disappear. At least in the permabrig you can mash the AI holopad and pretend you'll get out or try to slip an officer on soap.

The people who fight back as they're put on the gulag for littering have every reason to.

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TechnoAlchemist
 
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:39 am
Byond Username: TechnoAlchemist

Re: Tele-Gulag. For faster, and safer dealing with grey tide

Postby TechnoAlchemist » Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:54 am #186949

1000 is the maximum


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