/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:56 am**

This has been suggested 444444 times already I don't understand why it hasn't been done

Do any combination of the following:

- Make borgs take slowdown from damage
- Make borgs get their modules disabled from damage earlier
- Give disarm a chance to disable the borgs modules for a second or two
- Add a way to restrain borgs without chainstunning them or locking them down (perhaps by tying them up with wires or something). Basically, handcuffs but for borgs.
- Make the borgs cover (the one that holds the battery) pop open if it sustains excessive damage
- Make modules that are disabled by damage broken until the borg gets repaired instead of just allowing them to reequip it in a lower slot
- Make attacks that would stun humans (such as stun batons) confuse borgs and drain some of their battery
- Make borgs unable to open doors that have the AI control wire cut (except engiborgs of course)
- Give borgs vulnerability to chemicals/chem effects, such as:
-- Smoke fogging their cameras, rending them unable to see for a moment
-- Foam clogging their leg motors, meaning they can't move while atop foam
-- Lube/water causing their wheels to become slippery, making them confused
- Make the borgs eyes take damage from brute damage, make it repairable with glass
- (This one probably wont happen) Add dismemberment for borgs so you can disassemble/violently sever their legs
- Remove the fire extinguisher from several modules so borgs cannot redirect themselves in space
- Keep borgs being space immune, but make high pressures very lethal for the borg
- Give punches a tiny chance to force the borg to reboot (percussive maintenance), stunning it for a (few) second(s)

If borgs have more weaknesses, they're more fun to fight as/against. Added vulnerabilities also justifies stronger borgs to compensate, or even removals of other weaknesses (such as the SUPER FUCKING LAMEN instagib button in the RDs office)

No I don't want to "Nerf borgs they are op," but I believe there could be a lot more value to them if combat was more than "have a flash/robo console/emp or lose."

Posted: **Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:59 pm**

PKPenguin321 wrote:- Make borgs take slowdown from damage
This sounds good.
- Make borgs get their modules disabled from damage earlier
Nooooo. Disabling modules is already brutal.
- Give disarm a chance to disable the borgs modules for a second or two
That's what flashes are for.
- Add a way to restrain borgs without chainstunning them or locking them down (perhaps by tying them up with wires or something). Basically, handcuffs but for borgs.
Could be interesting. Use a cable coil on them to tie them to a chair, they have to resist out. Requires stunning them in the first place, of course.
- Make the borgs cover (the one that holds the battery) pop open if it sustains excessive damage
This one's good. It also means you can emag a damaged borg.
- Make modules that are disabled by damage broken until the borg gets repaired instead of just allowing them to reequip it in a lower slot
Could be interesting, but if you're being damaged, you've probably got the most important modules selected.
- Make attacks that would stun humans (such as stun batons) confuse borgs and drain some of their battery
Nope; borgs are one of the reasons why traditional stun attacks aren't 100% foolproof.
- Make borgs unable to open doors that have the AI control wire cut (except engiborgs of course)
This is already the case - they can't use their shift-click to open it, they have to do it manually.
- Give borgs vulnerability to chemicals/chem effects, such as:
-- Smoke fogging their cameras, rending them unable to see for a moment
Honk. I like it.
-- Foam clogging their leg motors, meaning they can't move while atop foam
Yeah, this is good.
-- Lube/water causing their wheels to become slippery, making them confused
Not so keen on this one, though - borgs are a hard counter to those people that love using lube and water to murderbone.
- Make the borgs eyes take damage from brute damage, make it repairable with glass
Sounds interesting, but a pain to deal with along with the slowdown, the cover opening, etc.
- (This one probably wont happen) Add dismemberment for borgs so you can disassemble/violently sever their legs
Pretty funny, but don't engiborgs have six legs?
- Remove the fire extinguisher from several modules so borgs cannot redirect themselves in space
N o p e. Fire extinguishers are the borgs' equivalents of "throwing a pen to change direction".
- Keep borgs being space immune, but make high pressures very lethal for the borg
High pressures as in "inside the supermatter chamber", sure. As in "someone opened a can of O2", maybe not.
- Give punches a tiny chance to force the borg to reboot (percussive maintenance), stunning it for a (few) second(s)
Funny, but RNG can be a dick.

Mine in bold.

Posted: **Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:55 pm**

Instead of slippery tiles, make spraying them with water directly have a chance of shorting them out. Not so little that spritzing them with a spray bottle is effective, but blasting them with a fire extinguisher can't be good for electronics

Posted: **Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:12 pm**

Screemonster wrote:Instead of slippery tiles, make spraying them with water directly have a chance of shorting them out. Not so little that spritzing them with a spray bottle is effective, but blasting them with a fire extinguisher can't be good for electronics

Fire extinguishers tend to use a powder

Posted: **Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:23 pm**

Ours dont though, they just use water

Posted: **Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:58 pm**

Taser shots drop borg energy? That would be cool.

Posted: **Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:30 pm**

If you can't just kite a fucking slow ass Borg then you deserve to get fucked.

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:28 am**

I'd rather see borgs loose the ability to use their modules on themselves, so no more self fixing.

Slowdown would be fine, IF it meant module shutdown didn't happen until ~20% health or less.

Panel unlocking might be fine, panel autoopening would not be. Unless battery removal took as long as zipcuffing a person. All that said, this plus the current Flash doing weaken 6 would be completely overpowered. One or the other, not both.

Disarm disabling modules is pretty dumb, More RNGesus is not going to fix combat.

The Fire Extuingisher and Pressure idea are counter-intiutive. Borgs are supposed to help fight and deal with plasma fires and other atmos fuckery. Implementing either of these would just further buff plasma fires and atmos griefing. A slow down in high pressure areas might be a good trade off, though.

Minor (>2 second) confusion or hallucinations from stun weaponry would be fine, battery drain would also be acceptable, a borg on a default cell losing over half their battery from full taser would be okay. Though this should never be stronger than an Ion Rifle or Ion Carbine, the things designed to shut down borgs.

As for chems, last I checked smoke already blocked line of sight. So I don't know how this would change anything unless you are implying the blindness persist even after they leave the smoke, which is dumb.

Foam causing slowdown or 'slipping in that they don't stop on a dime could be interesting, but not complete stoppage. Possibly make a slipping borg act something like a renegade MULE in that it does (severly reduced) damage, so a borg intentionally going onto foam could be considered a Law 1 violation.

Water and Lube fuckingg up borgs is also bad, since borgs should be a good counter to someone trying to spam slippery surfaces and thus making themselves nearly immune to retribution from Sec or the AI/Borgs trying to stop them. Would also be a complete logic failure as the Janiborg is supposed to clean up slippery floors.

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:43 am**

If they're at low health they still move at full speed but often stop moving for five seconds like a jam?

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:15 am**

Davidchan wrote:Panel unlocking might be fine, panel autoopening would not be. Unless battery removal took as long as zipcuffing a person. All that said, this plus the current Flash doing weaken 6 would be completely overpowered. One or the other, not both.

Yeah that's fine, like I said in the original post, part of the reason for adding a bunch of soft weaknesses is so we can remove/cut back the stronger weaknesses (like flash doing weaken 6).

Water and Lube fuckingg up borgs is also bad, since borgs should be a good counter to someone trying to spam slippery surfaces and thus making themselves nearly immune to retribution from Sec or the AI/Borgs trying to stop them. Would also be a complete logic failure as the Janiborg is supposed to clean up slippery floors.

This is all subject to change, we could just make it not apply to janiborgs (the fluff being that they have no-slip wheels or something).

I actually really like the feedback so far, keep it coming

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:03 am**

One thing that I thought of a while ago but was unsure on would be a twist on your smoke idea.

Make foods and objects that leave splash stains (So in this case, but not limited too, things like tomatoes, condiments like ketchup, beakers/glasses of oil and blood) splashed on a borg could reduce their sight temporarily, akin to welder vision or the extreme crit overlay with red jam all around their screen limiting their sight to ~2-3 tiles around them. If possible to code, additional hits from fruit or spashed items would have a chance to further restrict vision by 1 tile based on the object (splashing oil might be the 'best', throwing fruit would have a 20% maybe?) Banana Cream pies from the clown would become a soft counter for borgs (and cameras, if a clever coder could make that work too.)

Spray painting borgs would also be an option here.

Cleaning off the chem would be a 5-10 second 'resist' channel like uncuffing, the borg's modules aren't limited in anyway so this idea is to allow people to evade a borg or get an advantage in RANGED combat that borgs are already bad at. A borg sliding under an active shower, being sprayed with space cleaner or other methods that clean clothing would similarly remove the contaminant from their, other people or janiborgs could use a rag or soap to also clean them in a fraction of the time (as if uncuffing)

I can say I'm not interested in debuffs that stun or remove their functionality, as these are functionally identical. Things that hamper or reduce their effectiveness are fine, similar to how breaking a bone prevents the use of that arm, but doesn't stop you from picking the object up with your other hand and continuing to use it, and how breaking or losing a leg still lets you hobble about.

Also @Screemonster borgs are meant to be space proof and sealed to pressure damage and fires, if something is already air tight then how does water effect it?

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:37 am**

Super Aggro Crag wrote:If you can't just kite a fucking slow ass Borg then you deserve to get fucked.

what is this meme that every combat takes place in an infinite empty plane? outside of primary hallways the station is cramped, and even there a borg can hotkey bolt doors

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:52 am**

PKP literally thought borgs could magic open AI wire cut doors?

Hornygranny wrote: what is this meme that every combat takes place in an infinite empty plane? outside of primary hallways the station is cramped, and even there a borg can hotkey bolt doors

Golly a downside requiring a change of play style to work around and people did it how could they? Obviously the intent was borgs should be incapable of touching supple human flesh make humans magnetically repel borgs post haste.

Oh and since being slower is obviously irrelevant you wouldn't mind them being faster right?

Aside from the mindset of the those that insist cyborg downsides never matter I would like to see more downsides. I have suggested a slowdown on damage, oil leaks, embedding things into their gears for temporary slowdown and other damage effects before. Also cyborg dismemberment would be hilarious while requiring at least a resprite of the janiborg to have something armlike, as for how it would work visually you can just have that half of the borg also appear damaged in the case of multiple legs/tiny arms.

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:31 am**

Incomptinence wrote:Oh and since being slower is obviously irrelevant you wouldn't mind them being faster right?

yes, in return for more weakness of another kind. movement speed differences are garbage for playability

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:13 am**

Incomptinence wrote:PKP literally thought borgs could magic open AI wire cut doors?

Not quite. I guess I worded it poorly but what I meant was essentially "AI control wire cut -> Borg no longer has access to that door," as in they can't bump into it to open it or remote interact or ANYTHING (except engieborgs who can still interact with the door's maint panel).

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:18 am**

Davidchan wrote:Also @Screemonster borgs are meant to be space proof and sealed to pressure damage and fires, if something is already air tight then how does water effect it?

The big advantage of not being all that biological is that you don't need to build a pressure vessel. See: probes and satellites and the like. They don't NEED to make them airtight as it doesn't matter if they're vacuum inside, their components aren't affected by pressure the same way that squishy biochemistry is.

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:25 am**

Doesn't change fire, though.

Besides, half our borgs hover or otherwise barely make ground contact. Wet floors shouldn't affect them in any way.

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:46 pm**

>Shouldn't affect them because they're not touching the ground
B L U E S P A C E
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Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:53 pm**

Davidchan wrote:
Make foods and objects that leave splash stains (So in this case, but not limited too, things like tomatoes, condiments like ketchup, beakers/glasses of oil and blood) splashed on a borg could reduce their sight temporarily, akin to welder vision or the extreme crit overlay with red jam all around their screen limiting their sight to ~2-3 tiles around them.

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:14 pm**

On the flipside, let people upgrade cyborgs/androids with RPEDs/BRPEDs. At the moment it's only batteries that are relevant, but there could be other possibilities.

EDIT: Already thought of one - let people put upgrade modules from robotics into RPEDs.

Posted: **Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:09 am**

Port goonstation borgs where you can knock off limbs for these effects easy fix

/tg/Station 13

give borgs more weaknesses

give borgs more weaknesses

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