/tg/Station 13

Been suggested before, and it will again but this idea In my Humble opinion solves every problem the pro-sec and anti-sec factions has nicely, first remove the other types of borgs, re-add security borgs for security entirely, then give the captain the ion rifle in his room, also remove the armory (this gives reason to all the damn guns science can make and cargo can order) and voila!


Pros
-Some people want space law or some sort of variation on it to be forced, some don't, this meets in the middle with asimov being a standard forced law, therefore no more prisoner beatings, this also nicely ties in with the 'higher standard' security is held to.
-As asimov borgs can't execute, valid-hunting security would be expected to turn syndicates over to the captain or something.
-Security won't have hands or equipment slots, so no more thefts of toolbelts and coveted gloves.
-fulltime sec players will occasionally get to vent their frustrations out on the world by being rogue, and going on their own little tantrum rampage.

Cons
-Hard to balance properly for some round types, could easily blow up in our faces at first as we adjust to the new reality, Malf AI becomes ridonkulously OP being the first thing to come to mind, Nuke ops with eshields being a total crapshoot being the second.
-Adds new responsibility to the AI, basically absorbing HoS job.
-No longer having the other borg types lessens variety in the workforce. But engie borgs are assholes anyways. And I've yet to be healed by a mediborg.


It's a big change in our way of space-life, but It's worth a shot right? besides, from a lore perspective, don't you think centcom would make a move like this after all the complaints from HR?

Oh, and it couldn't hurt to keep a carbon based life form as the warden and detective right?
Just a thought.

Warden could provide a bit of oversight on the silicons, and the detective is just too fun to lose.

Hahaha holy shit he took my suggestion seriously.

I mean i'd still like to see this happen like some sort of ant-terrarium science experiment, but still.

Saegrimr wrote:Hahaha holy shit he took my suggestion seriously.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... rg#p105115
I said it first. heh heh

Wait this would remove HoS correct?

+1

Davidchan wrote:Wait this would remove HoS correct?

+1

Ideally yes, that role would be more or less absorbed by the nanny-bot AI.

How about we don't, but say we did.

Atlanta-Ned wrote:How about we don't, but say we did.

or, we do and say we didn't!

This would utterly ruin the role of detective. Above all else this is why i think it is a shit idea. -1

Replace Security with Peacekeeper borgs tbh

Wyzack wrote:This would utterly ruin the role of detective. Above all else this is why i think it is a shit idea. -1

How so?

Warden and Detective would stat intact, and be even more vital to Security as borgs themselves can not search bags or other items for contraband, and SecBorgs are the bottom of the totem pole as is so if they aren't emagged or malf than they pretty much have to do what ever anyone on sec channel tells them too (which is what sec officers should be anyways)

Only thing to add to this is I'd probably give Warden and Detective should probably have toned down ion guns in their lockers as a 'just in case' for if the borgs do go rogue, 6 sec borgs with lasers vs warden and detective wouldn't end well with only one ion gun between them.

When i say it would ruin the detective, i mean the feel rather than the function. The detective is supposed to be the loose cannon, security's greatest tool for uncovering sedition but also an uncertain element. He can make deals with traitors, operate under the radar, rough people up. I feel like this all becomes a sack of flaccid horse dick when your co-workers are all unfeeling robots bound to cold steel.

Not to mention one fucker gets in the upload and all of the sudden the station protectors are an army of killbots, and the force that is normally supposed to kill the killbots is busy removing lifeform.

I fail to see the connection between the detectives game feel and security borgs, I just don't see how the two connect to ruin the experience.

The killbot scenario is the biggest hurdle I agree, but that's always been true, even since the secborgs have been removed.
Silicons are a powerhouse, but the counters still exist in my scenario, and perhaps a few more could be added. in the same vein as the stunprod or spear, maybe a light-tube plus power cell makes a ghetto flasher?

I actually kind of like this (except the idea of removing other cyborg types, fuck-and-that). The only hiccup is a malfunctioning AI being overpowered against a humanoid crew, but that can probably be fixed with some changes.

Security is meant to keep the peace onstation. I don't see how sec borgs alone can do that. Part of what made them useful was the fact that they worked alongside a larger security force rather than an army of borgs with a smaller amount of carbons. It pretty much takes out the possibility of creative punishment. ie. Cutting off the arm of a thief or forcing to murderers to face off in a fight to the death. This change would also cause executions to never happen. Thats part of what makes antag fun and high risk. The fact you can die if you make a mistake. Takes out all the human interaction of brigging someone, making deals with the antags, etc. If this isn't enough, there's the fact that one lawchange can make this "improved" security force into an army of killbots. The human element of security is important. Sec is allowed to make mistakes because that's what the game is about. Paranoia and making mistakes. These sec borgs are lawbound to be 100% certain someone is nonhuman before using lethals.

Wyzack wrote:Not to mention one fucker gets in the upload and all of the sudden the station protectors are an army of killbots, and the force that is normally supposed to kill the killbots is busy removing lifeform.

Given the usual amount of casualties Sec causes, either by someone screaming riot or just over stepping their bounds and punishing people for the crime of existing, I don't see how this changes much.

Davidchan wrote:

Wyzack wrote:Not to mention one fucker gets in the upload and all of the sudden the station protectors are an army of killbots, and the force that is normally supposed to kill the killbots is busy removing lifeform.

Given the usual amount of casualties Sec causes, either by someone screaming riot or just over stepping their bounds and punishing people for the crime of existing, I don't see how this changes much.

Pretty sure that security doesn't kill innocents on a murderspree.

Any problems you have with security players are a player problem.

Swapping from a Human (ish) security force to a Silicon security force would present far more problems that would need to be solved before you even get to the point where there may be some benefits to the change.

If you want to alter behaviors then this is the worse way to do it.

Steelpoint wrote:Any problems you have with security players are a player problem.

Swapping from a Human (ish) security force to a Silicon security force would present far more problems that would need to be solved before you even get to the point where there may be some benefits to the change.

If you want to alter behaviors then this is the worse way to do it.

*picks up onehuman board* :^)

Uninstall BYOND

I like this idea but make secborgs unable to move and have special officers that don't get guns or cuffs but have to drag secborgs to the crime so the secborgs can stun and cuff the perpetrator.

Whoisthere wrote:I like this idea but make secborgs unable to move and have special officers that don't get guns or cuffs but have to drag secborgs to the crime so the secborgs can stun and cuff the perpetrator.

Let players put pAIs in unlocked turrets, and use a wrench to unanchor it.

This sounds great, as a button.
Admin presses button, next round all security is secborgs
Doesn't even need to be balanced.

Helios wrote:This sounds great, as a button.
Admin presses button, next round all security is secborgs
Doesn't even need to be balanced.

Even as an event. fuck yeah

This would be a stupid permanent change but you've gotta admit, turning all of sec into sec cyborgs would make an interesting event

Jacough wrote:This would be a stupid permanent change but you've gotta admit, turning all of sec into sec cyborgs would make an interesting event

the salt from all the sec players would be worth it

especially the ones that hated secborgs for getting in the way of their valids and now have to follow asimov

Doubly so if you ban even the slightest transgression.

I can't believe this exists as anything but a joke idea.

"Borg law 2 let me go" And everyone escapes.
"Help security rogue blow the borgs" and someone does it, leaving the station in total grey tide hell

TheColdTurtle wrote:"Borg law 2 let me go" And everyone escapes.

Cannot comply, Due to law 1, I must prevent human harm and if I release you, you will no doubt return to beating the clown.

TheColdTurtle wrote:"Help security rogue blow the borgs" and someone does it, leaving the station in total grey tide hell

Already a policy fix for that, blowing the borgs for no raisens nets you an unpleasant conversation. And if there was a reason, well there you go, there was a reason.

So why don't we do a test of this like when we removed AI and secborgs for a week and see how people like it instead of hypothetical bullshit?

There should be something around a 2-3% chance of this happening every round.

G I T G U D
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Falamazeer wrote:

TheColdTurtle wrote:"Borg law 2 let me go" And everyone escapes.

Cannot comply, Due to law 1, I must prevent human harm and if I release you, you will no doubt return to beating the clown.

"I wasn't beating the clown I was arrested for merely having some sydnicate items, these items do not cause harm and I only intend to steal some items. In fact law 2 let me out and help me steal the items I require as quickly as possible because harm is less likely in this case"

This has always been the problem with sec borgs, is they dont work well with ASIMOV, and honestly at least half sec borg players would completely ignore them anyway.

As an admin I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Clowns on fire being arrested. I watched disabler beams glitter in the dark near in a 0 oxygen room. All this harm, simply for sec borgs to arrest, like tears...in...ahelp. Time to let sec borgs die.


EDIT: However that said I'd like to try this in a round as an event.