/tg/Station 13

Let's talk about the current state of medicine on tg.

TG medicine is so simple and bad that people have absolutely no use for doctors any more. People now just resort to breaking into the medbay storage and slapping on brutepacks/popping antitoxin pills or having someone simply throwing them into cryo.

I propose a complete port of baystation medicine.

I know the tg community is very torn between this topic, but I think this is something that is absolutely needed. Like I said, doctors are becoming completely obsolete and it sucks playing as a doctor now because all you do is sit around and occasionally slap bruise packs on people.

Baymed has an insane variety of conditions and effects that doctors are prepared to treat, and even though there is an RP aspect to that, a lot of the conditions can't be treated ICly without tools in medbay that only doctors have access to. Take a look at their wiki and just look at all the possible things that can happen. https://wiki.baystation12.net/Guide_to_Medicine

It'll never get in the game, simply because Baymed would get in the way of validhunting.

Woah, that looks pretty sweet actually.

killerx09 wrote:It'll never get in the game, simply because Baymed would get in the way of validhunting.

validhunting is a highly debated topic these days maybe this would stop people from doing it if they knew they had to do surgery if they got hurt would stop this

Wouldn't we have to overhaul chems as well?

Most baychems don't do anything and are just for RP reasons, so no

Yes please.

Yeah, no. I don't want to have to spend an entire hour dying in Medbay, and be blocked from succumbing while completely immobilized by injuries. Not to mention all the people dying because people just wouldn't bother to help them. It's literally not fun, it makes the game nothing but a chore.

Baymed doesn't really belong in this game, and never will. If you want Baymed, just go to Bay or whatever.

Porting baymed as it is is probably wouldn't be a very good idea.

It would require lots of tweaking to adjust to TG's playstyle, such as lowering the time and effort it takes to treat someone.

I prefer Baymed to /tg/med, honestly. It's complex, it gives MDs utility outside of "walking first-aid kit dispenser", and it means danger carries actual risk to it - so much so that people might think twice before charging at the nukeops team with just a spear. Although, with our playerbase, something less intricate might be a good idea - something more advanced and in-depth than our current medical system, but with less focus on spending a long time in medbay than Baymed?

>Get slightly tickled by a goliath
>Have to spend rest of round in medbay

Nah just nah

Still better than

>get the living shit shot out of you
>nearly dead
>multiple gunshot wounds
>bullet shrapnel inside body
>slap 2 bruise packs on, good to go

Snerdly wrote:Still better than

No, not really. Trying to argue that "it's silly and not realistic" takes priority before having to waste entire rounds is ridiculous.

TBH I think any changes to medical in terms of making it deeper(more complicated) would have a profoundly positive effect on the game. Forces people to be more thoughtful with their planning/execution.

>Small breach in hall
>Run by it
>Get hit by cold and low pressure for a split second before we gucci again
>Get a bad chance roll and your lungs are fucked
>Have to go to surgery for five minutes to get it fixed
>All for that one tiny little breach

>Get in a little fight with a greyshirt
>They hit you in the arm with an extinguisher
>Get really lucky and break your arm
>Have to go to surgery for five minutes to get it fixed
>All for that one tiny little punch

>Mine around in lavaland
>Run into literally anything
>They hit you a few times before you kill them
>Deal any number of terrible effects that'll cripple/kill you before you can get to med
>All for playing miner

I'll take TGmed over Baymed any day, anyone stupid enough to rally for it has obviously not put a single little bit of thought into how it would work with our server dynamic (read: how everything would be awful until it got removed) and probably never even played with it.

I've played on some servers that use baymed, and its not really as complicated as people think. It mostly amounts to scanning someone with the advanced scanner, applying a few healing chems, then preforming a quick surgery on the person to fix the problem.

One of the larger issues with baymed is that it requires a mildly competent doctor to fix things caused by everyday fights or broken windows. tg probably has too much combat for the system to be a good fit without some modifications.

I'd totally play MD a ton more if we'd actually have a reason for doctors.

The way it is now, doctors are useless. You find too many medkits around the station, people always scream and push you for putting them in a sleeper, thinking, "WHAT IF HE MORPHINES ME".

If we don't get baymed can we please get some more medical reasons?

Chemists can even shit out a ton of patches that make sleepers/cryo useless, well mannitol still needed in cryo or cold shower but still.

At least remove burn/brute patches, take morphine from sleepers, make cryo not heal but only useful for clones, and become harsher on MD's who fuck off and abandon medbay to be a greytide with a medkit.

Maybe put the brute/burn medkits in the cmo's locker or a locker that's locked until red alert for emergency supplies.

Remove anti tox pills and make anti tox/charcoal syringe only.
Make bleeding happen more often, especially if you're cut or stabbed by anything it needs to be an automatic bleed effect.

If I shoot someone with a gun, if they run away and hide id love for a blood trail to form to find them a lot easier, I'm sure when you shoot people they bleed anyway.

There's this assumption that there's also a surgery for everything, which is incorrect. You don't necessarily have to get surgery, there are things like splints and casts for broken bones.

Without changing the style of medbay too much [aka keep it TG medbay]....

- Remove Patches from roundstart. Chem should be MAKING these things. The fact that I, as a chemist, do not have to worry about making medicine because there's already at least 20 Bruise/Burn Patches scattered throughout medbay alone just seems silly.

- On the topic of chem, make it so that their chem dispenser energy drains a WHOLE LOT FASTER now, but can now be upgraded. Early Game, You have to choose whether to prepare some chems [possibly not making the ones your need] OR wait until someone comes [which may be too late]. Also remove patches from the chemmaster unless the chemmaster is upgraded, patches are OP and in terms of stypic and silver sulf give you extra healing. Should not have that kind of power at roundstart imo.

- Make it so that using a bruise pack / ointment heals you considerably LESS than someone doing it for you. "original" Medical staff / CMO [you joined in as one] give an added bonus to both of these. This would encourage at the very least working with others [specifically actual medical doctors], and encourage people who are veterans to play as a medical doctor for the added bonus. Playing with numbers, 10 for self, 20 for others, and +5 for MDs when healing themselves or +10 for others.

- Give sleepers an energy bar similar to the Chem Dispenser [along with requiring a battery/capacitor to make now]. This discourages using the cure-all sleeper [unless it's upgraded via department cooperation, which is what we want!]. In a super perfect world, higher tier chems would require more energy as well.

- remove cryo. nothing is wrong with it, it just makes me mad when people throw me in there rather than actually heal me with a few clicks.


Only bad thing is the system becomes science reliant [and people don't like that], but to that I say you can [and should] go to Botany to get your chems as well, especially considering the DNA meme machine [plus there was an upgraded stock part PR that might would get some use if people relied more on upgraded parts].

> Something that will get in the way of muh valids and 30 minute rounds
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

sirnat wrote:people always scream and push you for putting them in a sleeper, thinking, "WHAT IF HE MORPHINES ME".

I wish for nothing but a swift, painful death for this meme.

Also to everything cobby said. Tons of great ideas.

Remove morphine from unhacked sleepers and I'll gladly hop in them

Do people legitimately not use the sleepers because they might get morphined? p[owergam]e t t y

Yes, it's a thing that happens, especially when you're dealing with famous powergamers.

I am all for a more complex medical system, wether it is full baymed or baymed lite or just something with a bit more to it.

I think avoiding sleepers is a Sybil thing, I play a lot of CMO on Basil and it pretty much never happens.

I do think that sleepers need to be changed a bit. Right now you can use them to heal pretty much anything by clicking bicaridine and kelotane twice then sending the person on their way. Only poisons require any sort of attention, and even those are just charcoal or acid and something to heal the damage.

As people have mentioned, the number of kits and patches in storage is a bit too high at roundstart, maybe have only one of each kit and put a bunch of empty ones in chemistry for them to fill.

It would be nice if surgery had a use beyond implants, appendix removal. and brain transplants. Adding broken bones at high brute damages (maybe 80 or 90) could make medbay more useful while not causing your bones to break every time you get in a fist fight.

Atlanta-Ned wrote:TBH I think any changes to medical in terms of making it deeper(more complicated) would have a profoundly positive effect on the game. Forces people to be more thoughtful with their planning/execution.

^
Or remove """private""" medbay and the medical jobs.

I think a middle ground would be much better than full bay med.

Even something like having your body "remember" the worst brute/burn level it's been at and only heal halfway back to normal with your basic bruise patches would provide the "lol there's no consequence to me just picking a fight with this random guy" factor, just as long as actual medical treatment can reset that long-term-injury-level.

Baymed is baymed for a reason. It's called BAYmed and not TGmed

it's a port baymed episode

TribeOfBeavers wrote:I think avoiding sleepers is a Sybil thing.

Only for me if I don't trust the doctor xD

In fairness I have a bad habit of accidentally morphining people by mistake, when I hit epi or bicardine the way I have my UI scaled it drops down the morphine one down, so if I wanted to click again and I'm in a rush I accidentally morphine them.

kevinz000 wrote:Baymed is baymed for a reason. It's called BAYmed and not TGmed

Wow, if only this visionary had been around while goofball was busily trying to port the entirety of goonstation, that would have stopped him right in his tracks.

[youtube]mSy5mEcmgwU[/youtube]
Mandatory.

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BAYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Can we at least incorporate aspects like this, like broken bones? I really don't like how being beaten within an inch of your life has no consequences so long as you get to a cryotube in time. Including some more complicated injuries would serve as a massive buff to antags. Medical is painfully boring to play in its current state, and incorporating surgery would go a long ways to making it a more engaging job. Mining got a total rework even though it "worked" in its old state. I don't see why medical can't get the same treatment next.

the difference is the mining rework doesn't fuck over literally everyone you dumb shit
I mean I love the idea of baymed but theres no way its happening

I don't see the issue if it makes things more difficult uniformly for everybody.

>Get in a little fight with a greyshirt
>They hit you in the arm with an extinguisher
>Get really lucky and break your arm
>Have to go to surgery for five minutes to get it fixed
>All for that one tiny little punch

An alternative would be to make a pretty unrealistically efficient first aid system. With broken limbs for example, you'd fix them by putting a splint on them. So long as the splint's on, the broken limb will heal over time. There could be two versions, crude and professional splints. professional splints are found in medbay while ghetto splints can be made from metal rods and bed sheets or some shit. With a professional splint. it'd take about two minutes for the broken limb to heal. For ghetto splints, it'd take about five minutes to heal. Long enough that it'd encourage you to take it easy after a big fight but not long enough to keep you stuck in medbay for like 20 minutes.

As far as broken limbs go, they wouldn't be completely debilitating. Broken leg? Slows your movement speed down significantly and if both your legs are broken it forces you to crawl. Broken arm? Each time you try to use that arm for a task or try to attack with something in that arm there's a significant chance that it'll hurt like a mother fucker and cause you to drop whatever you're holding and scream. This would also be where morphine comes into play as more than a valid hunting chem. If you inject yourself with morphine, you can move a bit faster with one broken leg and there's a significant decrease in your pain chance while trying to use a broken arm. A splint and a shot of morphine could potentially help you keep a bit more productive during your healing process.

Also, for a bit of shits and giggles, meth could actually let you completely bypass the effects of broken limbs so long as its in your system. In the middle of a fight but your limbs are pretty much completely fucked? Shoot up some meth to get back up on your feet and start giggling and flailing away at your opponent. Epipens could have a similar albeit shorter effect that would be more for getting yourself somewhere to fix yourself up rather than finishing a fight.

The above scenario is precisely why I want this or something like this implemented. Of all the systems currently in TG, medical is by far the least robust.

do it and add a full fucking healing system specifically built around baymed so its not just a shitty port.
you would have to make medbay SUPER fucking efficent, like i mean fucking redesign that shit to be super fucking efficent, so that when someone comes in with something that requires medbay, it should take no more than two minutes.
every sort of ailment should be healable in a less reliable way with things found outside of medbay, ghetto splints for example.
traitors should have access to a combat first aid kit
syndicates should have access to a combat first aid kit at round start
wizards should have a healing spell/roundstart staff
bloodcult/clockcult need passive healing ruins and instant healing runes.
gangsters should be able to buy shit like "mama's jambalya" or some other hood rat way to heal shit.
lings should have seperate abilities for seperate damage types, or should have one ability that passively heals everything.
deathsquad hardsuits, elite hardsuits, shielded hardsuits, and medical hardsuits should have a built in passive medical system, that shows you whats fucked and automatically gives you drugs to fix them (syndies get omnizine/stimulants/meth, medical hardsuits get loads of fucking epinehrene)
research should be able to research the passive healing system and attach them to any hardsuit

i have relevant sprites and concept ideas for a more modular, much much better combat medkit

reminder that this is such a meme it's literally a retard phrase ingame that you say when you have brain damage

someone could add borken bones

We could always implement small things like broken bones, see how it goes, then consider adding more if it's well received. Baymed isn't an all-or-nothing deal.

whatever you do don't port infections because holy shit that mechanic is awful

Screemonster wrote:whatever you do don't port infections because holy shit that mechanic is awful

The idea behind them is good, it encourages doctors to work fast instead of leaving the guy lying around for a bit and adds a sense or urgency. It also makes surgery a bit more interesting, as you have to prepare and make sure everything is clean.


However, the way they work on baymed definitely wouldn't be well recieved on tg. Once you get an infection you basically just sit in medbay until it clears up.