/tg/Station 13

Currently you are first assigned your job and then roll for possible antag, so if you get security you can't get certain antag choices.

I propose we first roll for antag status and then are assigned a job that can be said antag. This way people can play sec if they want to and not be sad about being excluded from most of antag rolls.

Do you actually know this is the case? Do you actually look at the code and know this is the case?

Are you making these declarative statements about how the game works with actual code knowledge because I'd certainly like to see the part in every game mode where it chooses to assign antags after their jobs have been chosen because I've been made a nuke op with only security officer on high before.

I'm pretty sure he means 'If I get traitor but I'm sec, don't make me sec'.

See this is why I don't pitch ideas much, because I have no idea how to read code let alone rearrange anything already in place.
It's not a bad idea, it's actually pretty good, just would probably take too much work.

This is something that NEEDS to happen to revitalize security.

It's absolutely frustrating that setting security to "HIGH" means I have absolutely no chance of playing antag that round.

Great solution to the issue of nosec. If this was implemented I would play security a great deal more, as, I'm sure, would many others.

This is not the first time this suggestion has been brought forward, I'm quite surprised nothing has been done about it.

It would very easily solve one of the biggest issues people have in playing Security, in that essentially your surrendering almost any chance of playing as a antagonist. I don't have that much of a problem with that but many people do.

The only real drawback with this suggestion is that if you see a predominate Sec player playing a non-sec role then one could meta that they are a antag, but we have rules on metagaming so that's not as bad of an issue.

It isn't just sec that suffers from the chilling effect of rolling for job first, then antag.

Playing head positions, for instance, means you aren't ever getting rev if you consistently get head positions (happens to be all the time with RD or CE. If nobody else currently playing has RD or CE selected, I'm pretty much stuck with RD or CE all day until I put it to never. Even low is not enough to stop it, at times).

Rolling for antag first, then job, would make it 100% fair across the board for all players. Every player would get a fair roll at being antag, and if they win the role, they can get a job that is allowed antag.

Please, someone who knows how to code, make this happen. It could potentially help revitalize sec, because we could play sec all day and be sound in the fact that we're getting a fair shot at antag.

Setting security in high still rolls you for wizard, blob, and nuke op.

But yeah, it doesn't pick you for ling, traitor, cult or rev because those gamemodes pick AFTER jobs rather than before.

I think it's a worthwhile change to make. There also needs to be some indication that loyalty implanted jobs are protected from antag roles.

Perhaps we could have it so that on the preferences window, antag protected roles are marked with an asterisk, and near the top/bottom we have a line saying those roles cannot be traitors/lings/revs/etc.

The malf roll is separate, too, which is how you end up with lots of inexperienced AIs rolling malf when they didn't expect to roll silicon.

Real solution is of course to re-enable antag for security and command, but I doubt that'll happen.

This may be a personal bias, but the code for assigning antagonists is absolutely terrible imo. It's a pain in the ass to change because everything is divided up into a million pieces for no reason, and different places that make people into antagonists do it in completely different ways. For example, the gamemode making someone a traitor doesn't use the same process as an admin using the traitor panel, and neither use the same exact process as a wizard summoning guns making people into a survivor. Hell, even the admin panel uses different methods for different antags within that same panel. Standardization is needed really badly.

Someone made malf work this way. It'd be nice to extend it to all antagonists. However, I don't consider this an extremely pressing issue without some polling to indicate a high percentage of players don't play sec because of this issue.

A high percentage of decent security players don't play security because of this issue.
When antag sec was turned on accidentally, security was maxed out even in low pop.

That's probably people who wanted to be security antagonists. You know, harmbaton in maint and all that.

I think addressing this could dramatically increase the amount of players in sec roles, myself included. It's an especially big issue on artyom, because well, traitor and ling are the only real antag roles a lot of the time.

It would mean a lot to the game if this was looked at, soon.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:That's probably people who wanted to be security antagonists. You know, harmbaton in maint and all that.

Almost everyone wants to be an antagonist from time to time. It isn't unusual security players felt the same way as the rest of the server population.

This idea sound pretty darn fair although I mostly have skipped sec duty in the past because I thought it might block blob and only learned latter it doesn't.

Well I mean it's not gonna do any harm. Just somebody needs to go through the silly code.

paprika wrote:Setting security in high still rolls you for wizard, blob, and nuke op.

But yeah, it doesn't pick you for ling, traitor, cult or rev because those gamemodes pick AFTER jobs rather than before.

I think it's a worthwhile change to make. There also needs to be some indication that loyalty implanted jobs are protected from antag roles.

>setting security to high still rolls you for the most rare game types
oh okay that's completely worth it then one game out of every 200 i'll get one of those 3!

For perspective I've not received a antag role in practically all the time I've played Security, the only time I got a antag role was either by Spectating or the occasional time I play Viro/Janitor.

As MrPerson said, I'd love to do this, but it'd just be so fucking hard to do since the relevant code is so bad. It's not just a case of putting spawning code behind antag assignment code instead of in front.