/tg/Station 13

This might be a terrible idea but it might also be good!

Reach Weapons are effectively melee weapons that can hit without being adjacent to the victim. They can sort of bridge the gap between sword and gun and maybe make our combat a bit more entertaining.

Their range can vary depending on the weapon, but considering there's only like 7(?) tiles on screen at once, I imagine most would have one tile of reach. Basically if you are not adjacent to somebody but one tile away from them, you can attack them at reach.
Certain weapons could also be less effective at close range but have extra effectiveness if you attack with them at full reach (like for example a whip that at reach does a disarm in addition to damage, but in melee range only does damage). Some items could ONLY attack at reach and not in melee.

Code-wise, we could draw a beam between the attacker and the victim to give visual feedback of the reach attack (think for example with the whip, we could just draw a simple brown line between the attacker and victim to show that the whip is reaching over that tile). This would mean that reached weapons would have just as much visual feedback as straight up melee weapons.

Yes, this was inspired by this.

Thoughts?

Space Pikes would be pretty cool I think.

Will make spring-loaded boxing gloves possible for clowns and HONK mechs.
Excellent.

my immediate thought was "jesus no what an awful idea" but the whip explanation is actually pretty good
I do think that EVERY reach weapon would need to be less effective at close range, though

it would be interesting. give spears & ratvarian spears reach 1, maybe give extreme reach weapons (pikes/halberds) reach 2 but they cannot hit at all at close range?

want to buy revolutionary pikewall

I don't even give a fug about balance, i want lucernes and Bec Du Corbines! gib polehammer pls

i do feel like this wouldn't even really be an unwarranted buff to melee

as it is it's pretty ridiculous where only the most absurd delimbing/high damage melee weapons are useful (save spears for throwing mostly) giving them a little more range would do wonders, though i'm not sure exactly where you'd make the cut between reach and no reach. for instance, is a spear longer than the blade of an esword(?)

I have a halberd sprite I made long ago
and now with 64x64 support you can have inhands and shit that actually go really tall

Your station has been boarded by a team of pikemen and musketeers!

can i add calculators next to abuse ExpPrimeHoly?

Goof you don't even have to ask to add shit you just do it.

iamgoofball wrote:can i add calculators next to abuse ExpPrimeHoly?

You mean AP5Holy

DemonFiren wrote:Will make spring-loaded boxing gloves possible for clowns and HONK mechs.
Excellent.

He's gonna do it the absolute madman.

DemonFiren wrote:Will make spring-loaded boxing gloves possible for clowns and HONK mechs.
Excellent.

Owegno wrote:Space Pikes would be pretty cool I think.

Holy fuck these

Cik wrote:i do feel like this wouldn't even really be an unwarranted buff to melee

as it is it's pretty ridiculous where only the most absurd delimbing/high damage melee weapons are useful (save spears for throwing mostly) giving them a little more range would do wonders, though i'm not sure exactly where you'd make the cut between reach and no reach. for instance, is a spear longer than the blade of an esword(?)

E-sword has reach 1, Double maybe has 2.

Possible weapons?

Spear: Glass Shard, Cablecuffs, Metal Rod.
-Force 5 when not wielded
-Reach 1 when not wielded

-Force 10 when wielded
-Reach 2 when wielded

Pike: Glass Shard, Cablecuffs x2, Metal Rod x2 (Surgical Drill needed)
-Must be wielded
-Force 10
-Reach 3
-Cannot hit adjacent

Halberd: Metal, Metal Rod x2, Cablecuffs x2 (Surgical Drill, Welding tool, Whetstone and Screwdriver/Wrench needed)
-Must be wielded
-Force 12
-Reach 2
-Cannot hit adjacent
-Armor halved

hm....

[youtube]HkwNVRHhunE[/youtube]

Incoming wrote:

iamgoofball wrote:can i add calculators next to abuse ExpPrimeHoly?

You mean AP5Holy

I always preferred exp prime

+1 if craftable watchdogs 2 thunderball included.

Isnt that technically a ranged attack that carries a melee attack that stops after precisely 1 tile?

"The chaplain attacks you with the Bo-Staff!" - Chaplain proceeds to run around breaking your ribs at range with a twohanded attack.

You could reasonably use this mechanic in a number of different ways

> Special moves (flourishes etc, lunging stabs for swords/edged weapons)
> Special ways to fuck up/counters - (grab someone's spear/sword lunge with a open hand (20% chance, 100 with sleeping-carp), then disarm them, or just have the weapon bounce off out of the hand when hitting something too tough)

Okay so we all agree that this is a good idea, now we just need to convince people to code/sprite it.

i think we should add that spikey ball on a stick weapon

cocothegogo wrote:i think we should add that spikey ball on a stick weapon

It's called a morningstar you mongoloid.

Cw3040 wrote:

cocothegogo wrote:i think we should add that spikey ball on a stick weapon

It's called a morningstar you mongoloid.

http://imgur.com/2c6pIOl

???

You mean a flail?

Flails have chains, morningstars do not. Hell most historical flails meant for combat were just multiple chains and maybe a counterweight to give them extra momentum.

As for the idea op wants, I can forsee this making cornering even more powerful since I can just drop a table or rack and stand around the corner. Nobody can shoot you cause wall and nobody can get in melee without climbing over the table.

What about lunging? "Reach" weapons that move you next to the target (into an adjacent open square), maybe requiring aggressive intent to occur. If there's no open square to move adjacent to them, attack doesn't happen.

Captain can switch between slashing and lunging with his sword, lunging piercing armor and reaching further but it does less damage

As long as Chaplain can get a glorified version of his pole which gives him a nerfed version of Alien Queens ability which leg sweeps people in a small cone in front of him, I'm down.

two swipes and a overhand darksouls style

You need grenade launchers that can be held to detonate whenever.
Sticky grenades.
Concussion rifles.
Pistols that remove all the enemies shields for easy headshots.
A pistol that has gradually deteriorated over time but still does insta kill headshots.
An assault rifle thats actually an SMG.
And a gravity hammer.

Borg
Jousting

cocothegogo wrote:i think we should add that spikey ball on a stick weapon

Toolbox + metal rod + 5 cable coils could make an improvised flail. Does a bit more damage than a regular toolbox and has a two tile reach at the cost of a longer click delay. Two handing it causes you to swing it in a wide arc hitting multiple people at once for significantly more damage but at a cost of an even longer click delay.

Jacough wrote:

cocothegogo wrote:i think we should add that spikey ball on a stick weapon

Toolbox + metal rod + 5 cable coils could make an improvised flail. Does a bit more damage than a regular toolbox and has a two tile reach at the cost of a longer click delay. Two handing it causes you to swing it in a wide arc hitting multiple people at once for significantly more damage but at a cost of an even longer click delay.

People rarely realize that flails were really not that great historically. It was a tool of men on horseback to swing down at the plebs. You actually lose a lot of striking power going from a morningstar to a flail.

cedarbridge wrote:

Jacough wrote:

cocothegogo wrote:i think we should add that spikey ball on a stick weapon

Toolbox + metal rod + 5 cable coils could make an improvised flail. Does a bit more damage than a regular toolbox and has a two tile reach at the cost of a longer click delay. Two handing it causes you to swing it in a wide arc hitting multiple people at once for significantly more damage but at a cost of an even longer click delay.

People rarely realize that flails were really not that great historically. It was a tool of men on horseback to swing down at the plebs. You actually lose a lot of striking power going from a morningstar to a flail.

Good thing this isn't real life then

Toolbox Knight! The finest scrap metal armor & a shitty flail whilst mounted on a borg/shoulders of a assistant in a cow mask.

guys I did the thing
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/24395

DemonFiren wrote:Will make spring-loaded boxing gloves possible for clowns and HONK mechs.
Excellent.

holy fuck I wasn't convinced until now

Qbopper wrote:

DemonFiren wrote:Will make spring-loaded boxing gloves possible for clowns and HONK mechs.
Excellent.

holy fuck I wasn't convinced until now

we already have these for mechs, it's the oingo boingo punch-face, requires similar mats to other HONK weapons.

Remie Richards wrote:

Qbopper wrote:

DemonFiren wrote:Will make spring-loaded boxing gloves possible for clowns and HONK mechs.
Excellent.

holy fuck I wasn't convinced until now

we already have these for mechs, it's the oingo boingo punch-face, requires similar mats to other HONK weapons.

Spoiler:

I didn't see the date the thread was posted nor have I used a honk mech

honk

Bump, because support for these has been actually coded in. I want to make some weapons that utilize it and could use ideas.

An example could be giving spears reach 1, but making them unable to attack at all at anything less than 1 range so you HAVE to be standing at least a tile away from somebody to hurt them.

Wot about chainsaw staves

PKPenguin321 wrote:Bump, because support for these has been actually coded in. I want to make some weapons that utilize it and could use ideas.

An example could be giving spears reach 1, but making them unable to attack at all at anything less than 1 range so you HAVE to be standing at least a tile away from somebody to hurt them.

I propose making them do laughable stamina-only damage at short range from thwapping the target with a metal stick.

PKPenguin321 wrote:Bump, because support for these has been actually coded in. I want to make some weapons that utilize it and could use ideas.

An example could be giving spears reach 1, but making them unable to attack at all at anything less than 1 range so you HAVE to be standing at least a tile away from somebody to hurt them.

Also give reach weapons the ability to unsaddle people on a mount

Super Aggro Crag wrote:Wot about chainsaw staves

Chainglaives.
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NZ/Nigh ... ainglaives

The scythe for the chaplain could be made into a reach weapon to give it a little bit of an incentive to actually use. Hitting someone one space away from you deals serious damage. For opponents adjacent to you it doesn't deal damage but instead pushes them back a tile and (assuming this is possible) if you attack at close range with it at the same time as your opponent your character parries their attack, stunning them and leaving them open to an attack.

Assuming that's not possible, you could enter a sort of parry stance if you wield it. You can't attack them normally while in this stance but you can still push your opponent back and if they try to attack you with a melee weapon while you're in this stance, you'll parry their attack.

Yeah it's basically just a weird take on Dark Souls' parrying with a bit of how the enemies parry thrown into it.

Also Claymores and Zweihander,both of which would be able to reach people one space away:

Claymores could be made into a reach weapon with a bit of a twist as well. You don't need to wield it to get the full damage out of it but there's a long click delay between swings, like with the telebaton. Wielding it gives you the standard click delay. The zweihander would basically be the Claymore's bigger, meaner, but cumbersome brother. You can't attack unless you wield it and you can only store it on your back. It's got the click delay of the telescopic baton so precision is necessary but when you do hit someone with it, it deals a whopping 60 damage and knocks them down.

Reach weapons seem highly abuseable against AI mobs.

>but what about guns

Those either have significant delays between shots or limited ammo. It'd be very easy to time walking backwards to how fast the mob moves and click on it without any risk if we have easily available reach weapons.

Clearly the answer is reach mobs

We already have reach mobs, goliaths and others can already hit you from 1 tile away

Thunder11 wrote:Clearly the answer is reach mobs

I admit I don't have much experience with coding but I'd imagine you could copy and paste some monsters' code and do some modifications to create some variants of existing monsters that might be more range oriented with some slightly different or recolored sprites. One idea that comes to mind,since everyone loves spiders, are jumping spiders. Their code could more or less the same as regular spiders but with the ability to lunge at people one space away from them to bite the shit out of them and possibly tackle them. Their sprites could basically be the regular spiders but edited to look like they've got thicker legs or look a bit hairy

Jacough wrote:

Thunder11 wrote:Clearly the answer is reach mobs

I admit I don't have much experience with coding but I'd imagine you could copy and paste some monsters' code and do some modifications to create some variants of existing monsters that might be more range oriented with some slightly different or recolored sprites. One idea that comes to mind,since everyone loves spiders, are jumping spiders. Their code could more or less the same as regular spiders but with the ability to lunge at people one space away from them to bite the shit out of them and possibly tackle them. Their sprites could basically be the regular spiders but edited to look like they've got thicker legs or look a bit hairy

Heeeh? heh?

Well spriting a jumping spider would be difficult because they look a certain way with great big flat faces. This is just something unrelated from my spritedump.

---

I've left some comments on the PR about how ashwalkers could create a bone halberd as a spear/axe alternative (axe being close range, halberd being long)

But i dont think a halberd or any reach weapon is going to wreck as much as a KA on lavaland Kor so its completely pointless to be worried about it, it just makes melee roles a little bit lax, and ranged mobs will mean that guns/KA's are going to be mandatory versus those types. For example if a bone halberd has shitty close range damage, its going to get blocked by legion heads all the time.

As far as ruining lavaland with ranged weapons, we've already done it with KA mods, the KA is the staple weapon to kill almost any boss in that PvE enviroment. What i really want to see the with this PR is a new magical loot effect item like a skybulge that strikes out physically but can shoot a projectile/effect while still behaving like a physical staff. (because you rarely ever see wizzes remember they have those things except in a round where everyone gets one)

Let us make glass halberds with two wired rods and a glass sheet, leave spears alone.