New mode: Pandemic

[Luke Cox]

Know Pandemic/Plague Inc/etc? I think it would actually make for a decent mode. There's been a lot of debate surrounding the addition of conversion modes, so here's something I thought of that's a bit different. If I had to compare it to a single mode, I would say blob and borer. And no, it wouldn't be anything like Jungle Fever.

• You play as some overmind type thing on the station. Your vision is limited to what your infected hosts can see
• One random crew member starts off infected. Infection is spread via touch without upgrades, and the virus is initially undetectable
• As you infect more crew members, you earn points that you can spend on new abilities/symptoms for your virus. Things like spraying contaminated blood everywhere on host death, adding symptoms to the virus, making it harder to detect, to even taking temporary control over a host. Loud and stealth are both options
• Virus wins by either infecting or killing a certain portion of the crew. Loses when all hosts are either cured or euthanized. Euthanization could make for some rather interesting interactions.
• Infected individuals are NOT antags, and will try to quarantine or treat themselves upon discovering that they are infected

Abilities:

Infection vectors
Aka how the virus spreads. You can go slow but silent, or quick and bloody. Might be able to have more than one, but at a high cost.

• Contact [default]: Spreads via what you touch. People and food you make contact with may carry the virus. People handing your corpse may contract the virus. slow speed, medium risk, extremely stealthy.
• Blood-borne: Any individual that ingests or touches the host's blood has a chance of carrying the virus. This includes blood trails on the ground. Very fast, high risk, not stealthy.
• Airborne: Being near the infected host with neither having internals has a chance of spreading the infection. Very slow, low risk, moderately stealthy.

Passive symptoms
These are your regular virus symptoms. Not a great deal different from virology. These are passive effects that occur continuously with no intervention from the overmind. The only limit to how many you can have active is how much you're willing to spend.

• Neurotoxin: Host will hallucinate periodically, with brain damage gradually accruing over time.
• Respiratory hemorrhaging: Host will cough up blood periodically, and be unable to breathe for short to moderate periods.
• Hemophilia: Host bleeds twice as much from injuries, and bleeds longer. Stealthy.
• Toxic metabolism: Host very slowly accumulates toxin damage over time. Stealthy.
• Macular Degeneration: Host's vision slowly gets foggier and foggier, resulting in eventual blindness
• Genetic Degradation: Host's DNA gradually mutates over time. Stealthy.

Active symptoms
These are effects toggled on a single host like a wizard spell. Either they have very long cooldowns, or each use has a point cost.

• Infectious Cloud: Host releases a cloud of pathogen-loaded gas that has a high chance of spreading the virus on inhalation.
• Appendicitis: Host has an appendicitis episode that requires surgery to fix. Stealthy.
• Heart attack: Host takes continuous brute and respiratory damage until crit. Stealthy.
• Coma: Host falls unconscious for an extended period of time.
• Living Death: Host falls unconscious and appears dead to the naked eye.
• Mind control: Overmind briefly takes full control over the host.

On-death effects
These trigger on death. Only one can be active on a time.

• None [default]: Host just keels over when the symptoms do them in. Stealthy.
• Husking: Host becomes a husk on death, making them very difficult to clone.
• Gibbing: Host gibs on death, spraying infectious blood everywhere
• Infected Swarm: Infected rats burst forth from the host on death, carrying the disease with them
• Explosion: Host explodes on death. Not sure how big this would be.
• Combustion: Host catches fire on death.
• Zombification: Host's body will become an aggressive mob upon death, capable of spreading the virus.

I still have no idea how the cure should work. I want half the battle to be finding the cure, and the other half distributing it.
With a lot of new modes being pretty sophisticated (*cough*clockcult*cough*), I think it would be better to keep something like this relatively simple. Easy to pick up, hard to master.

[Dagdammit]

Interesting. Natural place would be midround antag, but by all means aim for making it viable as a mode.

I dig the idea of only seeing what hosts see, though depending on your luck with a single initial host it would make for a real boring roundstart (especially if you can't choose your initial infection vector). Would likely be best to have a couple options for jumping to/between hosts. Might also want them to remain viable viewpoints (and even infection vectors?) after death. Plus that leaves door open for if you go down an upgrade path that ends in zombies.

One interesting option for manipulating a host could be Mimic Symptoms, which temporarily replicates the symptoms of various maladies- not just viruses either. My roundstart host is a lone botanist who stays in hydro? Let's give him fake appendicitis until he goes to medbay to get it looked at. Could replicate brain & cell damage from being cloned so they gibber and have a greyish pallor, etc.

Being able to manipulate the crew means the antag should probably be able to listen to comms, or maybe just hear all local & radio messages that can be heard by any of their hosts.

You win by killing or infecting X% of crew? Does any infected individual who dies count towards victory total?

Should be upgrade path with limited ability to designate specific hosts as carriers, rendering them asymptomatic.

Also hosts with visible symptoms like coughing, sneezing, etc. should generate more points.

[Whoisthere]

What does "euthanization" mean here?
Could you maybe manage "evolution" of the disease separately for each infected?
Do monkeys get infected/count too?
We could have an objective to have x number of infected escape too.

[Screemonster]

At the very least it should be difficult to distinguish between the gamemode/antag and a plain old virus. Probably need to not show on medhuds if you don't have any overt symptoms too otherwise you'll just end up with "host got spotted on the antag-hud, gg"

That said +support for an antag that isn't just "another thing for security to beat up". Let another department be the heroes for once :v

[Dagdammit]

Have certain upgrades boost visibility as drawback, eventually pushing you over threshold for health analyzers, medhuds, etc. to see you as you become higher level.

One possibly fun way to accomplish different strains of virus: The symptoms of your virus are whatever effects you choose to give your initial host, in that order, and perhaps along a similar initial timeline. If I swap to host #2 (who's only been infected for long enough to develop the first two symptoms I gave host #1) and choose a different upgrade option for HIS accumulating infection path to automatically be spent on next, I have now created a different strain of the virus. If someone carrying strain A of the virus is exposed to a pathogen bearing Strain B, their own virus will become the B strain IF that strain's ultimate form is one with higher tier symptoms (or more symptoms from a mutual highest tier) than Strain A. (symptoms phase out & phase in over the course of the following minute or so)

[Whoisthere]

Shold each strain have a different cure? That and not letting infected people suicide/not letting sec execute them on the spot for sneezing should make the pandemic hard to stop.

Regular crew should also have some justification/opportunity to riot, I guess. Maybe have it as a high-level symptom or have a condition where if enough people are infected non-stealthily crew gets to "panic" or someshit.

[Screemonster]

Maybe give different objectives at different times, including one of simply racking up a bodycount of infected individuals so if sec decides to just murder all the infected and cremate them to stop the virus, the pandemic gets its greentext. Basically the die-a-glorious-death objective in another form.

[Whoisthere]

Well if infected crewmen aren't antags, sec can't kill them without provocation since that will result in a ban anyway.

[Remie Richards]

I coded this once.

[Saul_Myers]

Plague Inc, but I get to FIGHT the disease? Sign me right up!

[leibniz]

I had the same idea.
Not sure if the crew would find it interesting though.

[Luke Cox]

What does "euthanization" mean here?

It means that security tells infected crew to come to security for a cure, then shoots them in the back of the head.

Could you maybe manage "evolution" of the disease separately for each infected?

I imagine that it would be a nightmare to both code and play. We should keep this relatively simple.

Do monkeys get infected/count too?

No. You could use them to help spread it, but you have to infect actual crew to win

We could have an objective to have x number of infected escape too.

Possibly, although I'm afraid that sec would just bar off the shuttle and escape with a tiny number of people. In fact, I was thinking that this mode should prevent shuttle calls. Centcom isn't going to let a bunch of people potentially infected with an extremely deadly plague in.



Some other points I'm getting from the feedback, or forgot to mention in the OP:

• You''ll start off with a few evolution points to spend at the start, so it's unlikely that you'll die off early. You should be able to force anyone to leave their post and infect other people
• Most symptoms will be passive, but a few will require you to manually toggle them on the host (i.e. mind control, infected cloud)
• On-death symptoms won't be able to stack, for obvious reasons. Some could include husk on death, combustion on death, etc.
• The point that the disease will show up on the medical HUD varies based on your symptoms. Probably around 5 minutes after infection by default
• I'm not really sure how the cure should work. The usual virology procedure is too easy. I do want medbay to be the heroes for once, though. Science won't be able to help beyond upgrading medbay, and security will be busy quarantining or euthanizing (which is extremely inefficient and only for desperate situations)
• Suicides need to be discouraged or punished somehow
• I really want security to be allowed to euthanize infected, but only in extreme circumstances. Maybe it requires code red.

People are going to be paranoid as fuck in plague rounds. Imaging the social interactions is what made me decide to post this.

[Steelpoint]

We'll need to place more Security Biosuits on the station.

[ShadowDimentio]

Hardsuits function as biosuits if you have internals on, so the 2 secsuits, 1 HoSsuit, and the sec biosuit equals four total suits. That's plenty. If sec needs more they'll have to pillage the station.

[Screemonster]

Possibly, although I'm afraid that sec would just bar off the shuttle and escape with a tiny number of people. In fact, I was thinking that this mode should prevent shuttle calls. Centcom isn't going to let a bunch of people potentially infected with an extremely deadly plague in.

surely "get the infection off the station" would be an ideal endgoal though rather than central pulling SOMEONE IN MEXICO IS COUGHING, SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING madagascar solutions

[ShadowDimentio]

I love the idea of dozens of infected trying to break through a sec blockade at escape in order to escape certain death on the station.

[Luke Cox]

Biosuits will go from being useless outside of antag disguises to golden tickets. Watching people fight for them will be hilarious.

In respects to the "have x infected escape" goal, I'm just afraid that it's too easy to powergame. I want a mode that security can't just shoot in the face without repercussions.

Edit: On second thought, maybe each infected could receive objectives to escape alive upon the infection becoming apparent.

[Steelpoint]

Except the Sec Biosuit is cooler looking, more so when I updated the sprites to make the mask look more like a actual Gas Mask and placed a armoured vest on the torso.

Add it in for the cool factor, not like the sec biosuits are actually ever used for anything else anyhow.

--

To counter sec shooting everyone perhaps have abilties that make the infection far deadlier if a infected is killed? Either more points for the overmind or dying has some nasty side effects like having a pool of pus collect nearby that spreads infection or it spawning a miasma cloud that chocks people while infecting them.

[Luke Cox]

To counter sec shooting everyone perhaps have abilties that make the infection far deadlier if a infected is killed? Either more points for the overmind or dying has some nasty side effects like having a pool of pus collect nearby that spreads infection or it spawning a miasma cloud that chocks people while infecting them.

On-death symptoms. For all you know, that person could explode in a cloud of infected gas when you kill them, or just straight up explode. You'll have to be sneaky if you want to euthanize infected (i.e. inject them with the "cure" and isolate them, giant gas chamber, etc.)

[ShadowDimentio]

Any infected killed should generate points for the Pandemic, regardless if it was from organ failure or a bullet to the head. Thus, a sec gas chamber could certainly work, but the Pandemic would be able to work faster to counter it, ultimately ending in a showdown of skill as sec tries to purge the infection as fast as they can and the Pandemic infecting people as fast as they can.

[Steelpoint]

On death symptoms should be something the pandemic has to evolve.

At round start someone dying under most circumstances who is infected should only give a small amount of bonus points to the pandemic, and maybe have the body have a small chance to infect anyone who touches it (looting?). But if you evolve points into it you can have random or certain negative events occur when someone dies violently. This would put pressure on security and command forces to avoid using lethal force or else the infection will spread even more so.

[Luke Cox]

On death symptoms should be something the pandemic has to evolve.

At round start someone dying under most circumstances who is infected should only give a small amount of bonus points to the pandemic, and maybe have the body have a small chance to infect anyone who touches it (looting?). But if you evolve points into it you can have random or certain negative events occur when someone dies violently. This would put pressure on security and command forces to avoid using lethal force or else the infection will spread even more so.

Of course, by default the person just keels over. Still can infect people who drag their corpse without gloves though. Maybe one symptom would have infected rats burst of of them. Yes, I've played too much Dishonored.

[Luke Cox]

Forgive the double post but I'd like to get some of the ideas for the abilities for the virus symptoms and abilities out there, so people can get a better idea of what this would entail. This would have to work a little different than the standard virology system for mechanical reasons. Every ability and symptom will need to have a stealth score, that determines how long the virus remains undetectable in a host.

Infection vectors
Aka how the virus spreads. You can go slow but silent, or quick and bloody. Might be able to have more than one, but at a high cost.

• Contact [default]: Spreads via what you touch. People and food you make contact with may carry the virus. People handing your corpse may contract the virus. slow speed, medium risk, extremely stealthy.
• Blood-borne: Any individual that ingests or touches the host's blood has a chance of carrying the virus. This includes blood trails on the ground. Very fast, high risk, not stealthy.
• Airborne: Being near the infected host with neither having internals has a chance of spreading the infection. Very slow, low risk, moderately stealthy.

Passive symptoms
These are your regular virus symptoms. Not a great deal different from virology. These are passive effects that occur continuously with no intervention from the overmind. The only limit to how many you can have active is how much you're willing to spend.

• Neurotoxin: Host will hallucinate periodically, with brain damage gradually accruing over time.
• Respiratory hemorrhaging: Host will cough up blood periodically, and be unable to breathe for short to moderate periods.
• Hemophilia: Host bleeds twice as much from injuries, and bleeds longer. Stealthy.
• Toxic metabolism: Host very slowly accumulates toxin damage over time. Stealthy.
• Macular Degeneration: Host's vision slowly gets foggier and foggier, resulting in eventual blindness
• Genetic Degradation: Host's DNA gradually mutates over time. Stealthy.

Active symptoms
These are effects toggled on a single host like a wizard spell. Either they have very long cooldowns, or each use has a point cost.

• Infectious Cloud: Host releases a cloud of pathogen-loaded gas that has a high chance of spreading the virus on inhalation.
• Appendicitis: Host has an appendicitis episode that requires surgery to fix. Stealthy.
• Heart attack: Host takes continuous brute damage, until death. Requires a defib to fix. Stealthy.
• Coma: Host falls unconscious for an extended period of time.
• Living Death: Host falls unconscious and appears dead to the naked eye.
• Mind control: Overmind briefly takes full control over the host.

On-death effects
These trigger on death. Only one can be active on a time.

• None [default]: Host just keels over when the symptoms do them in. Stealthy.
• Husking: Host becomes a husk on death, making them very difficult to clone.
• Gibbing: Host gibs on death, spraying infectious blood everywhere
• Infected Swarm: Infected rats burst forth from the host on death, carrying the disease with them
• Explosion: Host explodes on death. Not sure how big this would be.
• Combustion: Host catches fire on death.

I still have no idea how the cure should work. I want half the battle to be finding the cure, and the other half distributing it.

[Dagdammit]

There should be one for corpses to remain infectious, and a top-tier option to make it so dead infectees become npc zombies.

[Luke Cox]

There should be one for corpses to remain infectious, and a top-tier option to make it so dead infectees become npc zombies.

Corpses would remain infectious regardless, otherwise I feel like it would be a little too difficult to spread. Zombie like state on-death is definitely an idea.

[John_Oxford]

Ignoring the rest of the posts in the thread (im sure its been brought up)

if anyone has ever played plague inc. theres one way to always guarntee a win, and thats max stealth with no symptoms and once everyones infected go full lethal coma heart attack organ failure brain death insta kill disease and watch as the entire world suddenly drops on the floor

either make it where you can't do this (which makes the mode objectively bad because every new mutation has to be spread again)

[Luke Cox]

I agree, and that's my goal with active symptoms. Closing all of Madagascar's ports won't save you if people are breaking into places under the overmind's control or releasing noxious clouds that infect everyone near them.

Upgrades are retroactively applied to everyone that has the virus already. I know it's not the most realistic, but it'll be the easiest to play and to balance. Some nerd can come up with a lore justification. Full stealth alone will not work either. You will have to go loud eventually. Point costs will make it so that changes will have to be more gradual. Perhaps there could be a cap on max points and a cooldown before you can buy another ability.

[oranges]

yeah another crappy gamemode wooh I'm so excited

[MrEousTranger]

If you clone the host it should infect the cloning fluid thus infecting anyone put into it.

[AnonymousNow]

Thread revival because of a recent idea post that was essentially this, which means it's wanted, but off the radar.

I want positive symptoms, such as healing.

[teepeepee]

This all sounds like a neat idea, loved the "get an objective with escape alive when your infection is noticeable" and "get X number of infecteds to centcomm". I guess it could be not that fun for the infectees, seeing how badly everyone reacts to even the slightest sneeze, even if its from a healing virus. If this ever takes off I'll gladly roll for it or hope I get pacient zeroed.