/tg/Station 13

Rev rounds always seem to follow a pattern. The few security officers that at roundstart are killed before they know what hit them, and then the crew has to break into the brig to get at the powerless, turtleing surviving heads of staff. OR security was staffed well at roundstart, they go full gestapo and murder/implant any rev they find and everyone complains about how security is turbohitler.

There doesnt seem to be much variation, I think in the last 4 months or so I have only had one rev round that was actually an interesting back and forth between the revs and loyalists, the mode is basically a shitty version of team deathmatch in a game that really doesnt do team deathmatch well.

So, how do we make rev an interesting and unique game mode without turning it into cult-but-no-magic?

I have a few ideas and I hope other people can come up with better ideas.

Idea Number 1: Time Limit
Basically Nanotrasen has had enough of your shit and after a certain amount of time sends a death-squad to fucking murder EVERYONE, heads included. This would serve two purposes: It would discourage turtle tactics by the heads and provide a nice mix-up to prevent stalemates. When the death-squad comes, the revs and the heads both get objectives to fight them off, but they still can lose if the revheads or heads of staff die. If somehow the death-squaddies die, the killers get powerful tools to help end the round.

Idea number 2: Limited Revs
This idea runs the risk of making rev too much like cult, but hear me out.

the revheads only have a limited amount of converts, but the converts cannot be de-converted. Implants will protect from conversion but do nothing against already converted revolutionaries. The reasoning behind this change is to slow down the pace of the round a bit. Revheads will want to pick and choose who they convert instead of running around 1 minute into the round flashing everyone. Actual strategy may get used instead of using zerg tactics, as a revhead can choose to convert an entire department or maybe plant a revolutionary in every department. It would also give a decent way to balance the amount of revs vs the amount of security, as the amount of converts can be tied to the number of security present at round-start.

Anyway, that is my rambling suggestions to maybe make a mode not suck so much, If you have any ideas please post them, I hope that by putting our heads together we can come up with something interesting.

Dr_bee wrote: Idea Number 1: Time Limit
Basically Nanotrasen has had enough of your shit and after a certain amount of time sends a death-squad to fucking murder EVERYONE, heads included. This would serve two purposes: It would discourage turtle tactics by the heads and provide a nice mix-up to prevent stalemates. When the death-squad comes, the revs and the heads both get objectives to fight them off, but they still can lose if the revheads or heads of staff die. If somehow the death-squaddies die, the killers get powerful tools to help end the round.

1) Why bother giving the heads/revheads an objective to fight the DS if the round still ends if either group dies? There's no incentive to cooperate because I can just as easily kill the dope baited into "Team up to fight the DS guise."
2) Just turns into "ghosts pick who wins" which is kinda dumb.
3)Why would a DS be sent to kill command staff on a station already being overrun by hostile crew? DS are designed to make entities hostile to NT go away, not to aid hostile forces in overthrowing them.

Rev is fine

D&B wrote:Rev is fine

Yup. It's a good palette cleanser.

3)Why would a DS be sent to kill command staff on a station already being overrun by hostile crew? DS are designed to make entities hostile to NT go away, not to aid hostile forces in overthrowing them.

Primarily because if the heads dont stop the revolution by the time the timer goes down it would mean that they are failures, and nanotrasen does not tolerate failure lightly. so basically, they kill everyone, repair the station, and restaff it after cleaning the bodies.

The point of the time limit Deathsquad would be to encourage offensive tactics rather than purely defensive ones by the heads of staff.

Dr_bee wrote: the revheads only have a limited amount of converts, but the converts cannot be de-converted. Implants will protect from conversion but do nothing against already converted revolutionaries.

This forces 2 things.

1) people to participate in rev since they no longer can just hold out and wait for the other guys to do the work while they tend their medbay [every convert is now crucial]
2) people to just kill off revs, which is LAME

Make revs only able to recognise the revheads and any revs that were converted by the same revhead who converted them. Revs converted by different revheads can't recognise one another.

Incentivises revheads to lead their respective mobs and/or find some method of identifying/communicating one another between different groups. Makes rev a little less lopsided in my opinion.

Anonmare wrote:Make revs only able to recognise the revheads and any revs that were converted by the same revhead who converted them. Revs converted by different revheads can't recognise one another.

Incentivises revheads to lead their respective mobs and/or find some method of identifying/communicating one another between different groups. Makes rev a little less lopsided in my opinion.

Would be a welcome change from the current meta of "revhead flashes everyone and then walls himself into maint and AFKs.

Good thing we have a system where the round will reset if you press a button and wait ten minutes.

ShadowDimentio wrote:Good thing we have a system where the round will reset if you press a button and wait ten minutes.

A system that is turned of specifically for rev rounds.

Why must everything be changed when it works well enough.

Rev is great in its current state because it lets people blow off steam. Nothing better than ramping up with your sec squad and going toe to toe in the middle of a cell against a greyshit in the middle of a cell. Or having to sneak around to get implanted by the heads before the revs find you and flash you.

I'll admit I feel more paranoia in rev rounds when you don't know who to trust than in other gamemodes.

D&B wrote:Why must everything be changed when it works well enough.

Rev is great in its current state because it lets people blow off steam. Nothing better than ramping up with your sec squad and going toe to toe in the middle of a cell against a greyshit in the middle of a cell. Or having to sneak around to get implanted by the heads before the revs find you and flash you.

I'll admit I feel more paranoia in rev rounds when you don't know who to trust than in other gamemodes.

the problem is a large portion of these rounds are lopsided, either there are no security and the revs steamroll, or there is security and there is a fighting chance for the heads. and because security has such a high turnover of players it is more often no security.

I've had some thoughts on this subject for some time.

1) Introduce Station Victories, Minor Revolution Victories, and Major Revolution Victories.

It's simple - if all heads of staff survive as the revheads die off, it's a Station Victory, as normal. If all heads of staff die as the revheads survive, it's now a Minor Revolution Victory.

If all heads of staff are marooned, alive, on a different Z-level (which is something revcode already tracks), then it counts as a Major Revolution Victory.

It encourages rev coordination and a more interesting dynamic between the two factions whilst changing pretty much nothing mechanically. If you're still a boring murderboning shit and the idea of rev changing makes you screech autistically, then this means that you don't have to play any differently. You shitgibbon.

This suggestion can work alongside the next.

2) Divide revolutionaries into seperate factions depending on which revhead (the de facto head of that faction, but still rev-aligned no matter what) converts them; one faction will focus on killing the heads, whilst others want to maroon them.

This change would work best as a rev variant gamemode in the game as well as, not instead of, the original rev gamemode. It would encourage a paranoia-laden mix of infighting and tentative co-operation.

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Revs tend to steamroll because there's enough people independently murderboning anyone who isn't a rev. Revs tend to get steamrolled because they lack the skill individually to get away with not coordinating. 1), in particular, addresses that directly.

Revolution is usually interesting. Every type of gamemode has it's good and bad rounds. Revolution does not need to have changes to conversion. It does not need minor or major victories. This is one of those things that should not be changed for the sake of change because the gamemode is fine as it is- a 30 minute to 1 hour murderfest. If the heads of staff hide, admin intervention usually occurs.

If anything, most of the issues listed are player issues, such as incompetent/nonexistent security or incompetent rev heads. These can be fixed by waiting for the new players to git gud. And adding an incentive to play security for the good/experienced players. Don't ask me what that incentive would be, I do it for fun.

Edit: Anon, how is doing your objectives murderboning? Killing heads of staff is your objective, killing implanted personnel and security goes along with that. It's like saying anyone who has hijack and murderbones is terrible. Of course they murderbone, it's their objective. Additionally, security is not expected to exile the revolutionaries. They can, but it's easier to kill and locker the bodies to deny any chance of escape/cloning. The rev objectives are fine as is.

BeeSting12 wrote:Edit: Anon, how is doing your objectives murderboning?

Killing security makes sense. Killing the heads of staff makes sense.

Breaking into peoples' departments to kill them, when they're nothing to do with the heads? CMO's dead elsewhere, and I'm not a revhead, so let's go VALID the doctors in medbay! I think the virologist is still alive, so I'm going to hack all these wires here and... but it's valid, because I'm an antagonist! Yep, I'm so sick of that.

I still think that Major/Minor victories will encourage a minor, but positive change in the mentality of revs, without encroaching on peoples' alarming need for bloodbloodblood.

BeeSting12 wrote:Edit: Anon, how is doing your objectives murderboning? Killing heads of staff is your objective, killing implanted personnel and security goes along with that. It's like saying anyone who has hijack and murderbones is terrible. Of course they murderbone, it's their objective. Additionally, security is not expected to exile the revolutionaries. They can, but it's easier to kill and locker the bodies to deny any chance of escape/cloning. The rev objectives are fine as is.

>Objectives
>go dunk the heads gogogovivagogo
>immediately murders anyone without an R next to their name

Happens every round. Textbook murderboning. Just about as bad as cult who spends their starting paper on robe and sword and runs into the hall with it.

The fact that revolution is so simple in concept is a big part of it's power in my opinion.

i still like the idea of punishing hiding heads/revheads, but I don't know how to go about that.

Rev rounds are fine for the round start crew. After awhile you end up with most of the station impanted or converted, or even better half and half. The people it sucks for are the late joins who get murderboned by the revs before they even know what's going on

AnonymousNow wrote:

BeeSting12 wrote:snip

Killing security makes sense. Killing the heads of staff makes sense.

Breaking into peoples' departments to kill them, when they're nothing to do with the heads? CMO's dead elsewhere, and I'm not a revhead, so let's go VALID the doctors in medbay! I think the virologist is still alive, so I'm going to hack all these wires here and... but it's valid, because I'm an antagonist! Yep, I'm so sick of that.

I still think that Major/Minor victories will encourage a minor, but positive change in the mentality of revs, without encroaching on peoples' alarming need for bloodbloodblood.

Not everyone does that. Major and minor victories wouldn't change the player mindset about killing. It certainly doesn't affect hacking into viro and murdering the virologist. Which, by the way, is retarded. Who even does that? Revs might kill unimplanted nonrevs because the nonrevs try to stop the revs, which is justified.

Didn't read this thread; rev is fine

Make sec and rev automatons spawn automatically in huge numbers. Sec automatons attack everyone non-implanted, rev automatons attack everyone implanted, and they both attack each other. Also make wooden barricades and shit like that spawn. For atmosphere.

Remove the mode it's impossible.

Gangmode points system worked fairly well, giving rev heads an uplink/device that they can buy equipment. If 1 convert is 1 tc, and someone getting deconverted loses the revs 1 tc, it'd prevent cheesing the system. For 20-30tc the rev heads can call in a syndicate ERT (basically nukes randomly armed with SMGs, Shotguns and maybe an LMG and some extra ammo and C4 to go around) to help the final push if a round goes that long.

Ultimately though, I'll say Rev is a decent mode that is a good palette cleanser as long as nobody takes it too seriously. The only real change needed is stalemate breakers where Sec/Heads refuse to act if they don't feel they have an advantage, and revs generally don't have enough coordination or gear to attack a lockdowned brig.

Not nukies, syndicates have their own ERT suits.

also it's "palate"

Change food system so that people can die of hunger, that way revs can besiege the brig and just try to starve sec out.

DemonFiren wrote:Not nukies, syndicates have their own ERT suits.

also it's "palate"

Basically nukies. Syndicate Hardsuit and ERT suit have comparable values as is, and the Elite Syndisuit is basically just a black ERT suit.

Yes, but muh aesthetics.
Nukesuit should be reserved for syndie deaf squids.

DemonFiren wrote:Yes, but muh aesthetics.
Nukesuit should be reserved for syndie deaf squids.

Tators can already by bloodred suits, thats half the basis for the mempack pr.

This is related to rev rounds, how?