Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

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John_Oxford
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Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by John_Oxford » #255914

Hear me out.

Adds a 120 degree vision cone infront of the player, you can only see in this direction. Mirrors on the walls and mirrors in your hand will refract this.

There will be three types of vision.

"never seen before" - "seen in the past" - "seeing now"

Never seen before tiles will be the black "cant see" we have now in the game.

Seen in the past tiles will have a visible overlay of everything on that tile, except it will have a darker grey overlay. Everything you've seen on that tile won't be updated until you can see it again. Meaning if you go into a room and look at a table with a pen on it, leave the room, someone else comes in and destroys the table and takes the pen, you would still be able to see a table with a pen on it through the walls, theres just no indication that anything has happened to it until you walk into the room and see that the table has been destroyed.

"Memory" will clarify as the amount of "seen in the past" tiles you can have. The standard space man will have 200 tiles he may memorize. Once you hit this cap, random "seen in the past" tiles will start turning into "never seen before" tiles. The random selection of the tiles is to simulate fragmented memory.

Certain augments and conditions affect memory.

Memory Augmentation Implants - Three Tiers [Tier I is 300 tiles, Tier II is 500 tiles, Tier III is 1000 tiles, Tier IV is admin, deathsquad, and ert only and has a 7500 cap.]
Head Cyborg Augmentation - Bumps the standard 200 up to 350 and reduces the memory loss affects of brute damage to the skull
Brain Removal - Wipes all memory of all known places
Cloning - Fragments memory [60% of memorized tiles will either have items that weren't there or will be "never seen before" tiles]
Head Damage - Every 1 brute taken to the head has a 5% chance to change a random memorized item into another item and a 2% chance to remove a "seen before" tile and turn it into a "never seen before" tile.
Wizard Spells - Time stop also affects the memory of tiles, removing a good 30 memorized tiles and turning them into "never seen before" tiles
Neuralizers - Comes with a pair of special sunglasses. Wipes all tile memory that was accumulated after a set station time. You can buy it in a box for 1 TC. Deathsquad members, Central Command officals, and ERT spawn with it in their box.
Cryo - Dropping to cryo tempatures has a 2% chance to affect tile memory by either changing or removing a item.
Space - Dropping to space tematures has a 2% chance to affect tile memory by either changing or removing a item.
Husking - Two different conditions in regards to if it was a enviorment husking or a changling husking. Enviorment husking removes 70% of all memory. Ling husking removes 90%.
Radiation Storms - Rad Storms have a chance to have really weird effects like spawning 600 clown horns in all of your tiles or something ridiculious like that. No chance to remove memory tiles however.
Admin Verbs - "Restore Player Memory" and "Restore All Player Memory" and "Give all players full map Memory" and "Wipe Memory for all". Self explanatory.

The syndicate may purchase Tier I memory implants with a autoimplanter for 2 TC. Tier II implants for 4 TC. And Tier III implants for 6TC.

Heres a discord drop incase i failed to cover anything, short on time so this will probally cover most of the shit i intended to say

- nevermind -

Like i was going to say, you would also have to add sound overlays, increase sound output, and sound direction. People making sounds (anything that plays a audio que when activated or done) will create a yellow speaker icon or a yellow footstep icon in the area you cannot see.

Jackboots make more sound than normal
SWAT and Combat Boots make no sound
Noslips make no sound
Magboots make lots of sound
Smugglers Satchels make no sound when accessed
Suppressors don't make sound themselves, the bullet impacting something makes a sound.
Throwing or dropping heavy items makes a sound
Wearing earmuffs removes all of these sound icons.
Hearing damage may occur, going deaf prevents you from hearing these sound icons, long lasting hearing damage may also occur, resulting in the sound icons being in different locations than where the sound actually came from.
Bashing a riot shield gives a special yellow baton icon.
Gunshots will give a C20r overlay firing.
Energy and Taser bolts give a yellow taser bolt icon.

This will also require the addition of sound files for most everything in the game, like footsteps. You can turn off footsteps in your preferences if you don't want to hear them at all ever. Earplugs (the tiny ones) have also been added to vendors and engineering in case the station is to loud. Research can also produce high volume noise selection head phones (HVNS Headphones) which can be configured to allow you to hear certain sounds only (like gunshots or people speaking) This also comes in a radio variant, (REHVNS) which also comes in a bowman variant (TREHVNS) t stands for tactical.

Sound Proofing and Sound reflector panels may also be added. Megaphones create a 3x3 cluster of sound icons when used. Sound proofing prevents you from hearing anything on the other side of walls, Sound reflectors make everything in a room louder than they would be otherwise.

In regards to combat usage. Pocket Mirrors now spawn in vendors and in loads of places in dorms and maint. Using them in a active hand will allow you to see behind you. So long as you have them in your hand and active you will be able to see behind you (but not in your left and right blind spot)

You can also attach them to metal rods (which makes them a average sized item, meaning you can't fit them in your pockets) or you can attach them to telebatons, which negates the use of the telebaton but also means you can collapse it back down to a small item and fit it in your pocket.

Attaching it to either of them allows you to see around corners. There will be a hotkey in the top left corner of the screen to switch directions, Standing next to a corner like;
_ - Flooring
X - Wall
E - Door
Y - Nuclear Operative
O - You


X___XEXXEXX
X__________
X_________Y
X_____OXXXX
X______XXXX


Using it on the tile marked F in the next picture will allow you to see at a 30 degree angle, everything marked with a C after that is shit you can see


X___XEXXEXX
X__________
X_____F___Y
X_____OXXXX
X______XXXX


Using it on the tile marked F allows you see everything marked C below


X___XEXXEXX
X_______CCC
X______CCCC
X_____OXXXX
X______XXXX


Pocket Mirrors can also be attached to weapons, which will allow you to see behind you when that weapon is in your hand. Going up to the O position in the pictures above and then looking to the west side of the room will allow you to see the syndicate agent. Seeing behind you with pocket mirrors is a 120 degree arc of vision.

*Heavily Inspired by CDDA and Project Zomboid
Last edited by John_Oxford on Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:47 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by Wyzack » #255916

I don't know if something like this is feasible for SS13 but the memory tiles and being able to estimate the positions of sounds you cannot see is present in at least a few roguelike such as Cataclysm DDA. mite b khul if someone can actually pull it off
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by kevinz000 » #255923

No.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by Anonmare » #255925

Someone showed off something similar, with everything 180 degrees infront of you and the immediate tiles behind and to the sides were visible. Everything else behind you had a greyed out look with you having a "memory" of how things looked (in terms of turfs and structures) that gets updated when you look again
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by DemonFiren » #255929

I think Bay tried something like this but it didn't work out.

Shame, because this is very good.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by Jacough » #255930

Anonmare wrote:Someone showed off something similar, with everything 180 degrees infront of you and the immediate tiles behind and to the sides were visible. Everything else behind you had a greyed out look with you having a "memory" of how things looked (in terms of turfs and structures) that gets updated when you look again
I think I remember seeing a video demonstrating what you were talking about. It looked more annoying than anything. Still though. It'd be kind of hilarious to see a situation where a murderbone antag gets taken out by a single assistant a stun prod who snuck up behind him
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by cocothegogo » #255932

doesn't lifeweb have this
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by PKPenguin321 » #255938

I like it in theory but in reality it would be pretty awful, especially getting stunned and beaten to death from behind by someone/something you can't even see
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by danno » #255940

just to be clear, this is feasible
lifeweb has this, you can't see people in a cone behind you. objects/turfs are simply darkened in a sort of way that would simulate "things I know were there when I last saw them" kind of way.
People moving behind you fast enough make a sort of radar ping.

It works for lifeweb, because lifeweb's combat system is much more thought out and deliberate and GOOD than ours.
I doubt it would work for our hyperfast stun based bullshit.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by cocothegogo » #255941

why can't we test it? we test every other bad idea
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by danno » #255943

can't test something that doesn't actually exist in code yet
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by danno » #255944

also if this were a thing, all of this modifier shit John outlined in the OP would probably be excessive and needless and only detract from the feature.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by onleavedontatme » #255969

Phil had this coded for SS13 but never released the code before leaving.

CobaltAnt(?) did as well and even linked me the code in a pastebin but I'm dumb and didn't save it at the time.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by John_Oxford » #255974

danno wrote:also if this were a thing, all of this modifier shit John outlined in the OP would probably be excessive and needless and only detract from the feature.
its not bloating, its just general shit that would take advantage of the baseline feature.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by Armhulen » #255977

Lings should remove ALL memory. They sucked out his brain like a slurpy for gods sake
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by cedarbridge » #255986

danno wrote:just to be clear, this is feasible
lifeweb has this, you can't see people in a cone behind you. objects/turfs are simply darkened in a sort of way that would simulate "things I know were there when I last saw them" kind of way.
People moving behind you fast enough make a sort of radar ping.

It works for lifeweb, because lifeweb's combat system is much more thought out and deliberate and GOOD than ours.
I doubt it would work for our hyperfast stun based bullshit.
Yeah, where our codebase right now is built around turbo dancing stunstick taser slapfights, I don't see this adding anything useful.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by Armhulen » #255988

cedarbridge wrote:
danno wrote:just to be clear, this is feasible
lifeweb has this, you can't see people in a cone behind you. objects/turfs are simply darkened in a sort of way that would simulate "things I know were there when I last saw them" kind of way.
People moving behind you fast enough make a sort of radar ping.

It works for lifeweb, because lifeweb's combat system is much more thought out and deliberate and GOOD than ours.
I doubt it would work for our hyperfast stun based bullshit.
Yeah, where our codebase right now is built around turbo dancing stunstick taser slapfights, I don't see this adding anything useful.
we could try slowing down, who knows if it'll help though
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by cedarbridge » #255993

Armhulen wrote:Yeah, where our codebase right now is built around turbo dancing stunstick taser slapfights, I don't see this adding anything useful.
we could try slowing down, who knows if it'll help though[/quote]
Reducing speed just gets complaints about movement between departments and parts of the station being too slow and burdensome. For reference, spend an entire round just walking without ever toggling on running. Slower movement speeds also has interactions with our atmos system. Slower move speeds cause breaches/spacewind to be much more deadly and harder to escape.
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I'm ok with this, personally.
If we're going to slow things down to accommodate a vision cone system then we should keep running in as a toggle and just give it a steep nutriment requirement. Make walking the default speed (because seriously, nobody runs everywhere because its exhausting, walking SHOULD be the default) and then allow a toggled run speed increase that rapidly depletes hunger to the point of causing hunger/starvation slowdown after a period of time. This would make it less likely that anyone would spend the whole round zipping around, would make sneaking up possible because not everyone is constantly zipping around at turbo speeds, and further validates the service departments as more than just bomb berry memes.

So, yeah, to properly implement vision cones you'll need to slow down the game. To slow down the game without breaking the rest of the system you'll have to allow for some other changes to fix co-morbid problems with slower speed. Pretty big deal project but given the suggested way to implement I outlined, it could be fun and interesting.

Edit: Also, vision cones AND slower move speed turns lavaland into an even bigger nightmare than it already is.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by D&B » #256013

Vision cone sounds cool as fuck to fight megafauna in
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by kevinz000 » #256024

No
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by DemonFiren » #256025

kekvin pls
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by danno » #256027

very valuable and quality posting from the Boy-is, Kevin McPhearson

slowing down the game would be a step in the right direction, but it would have to be a big fucking step. There are a LOT of things you have to consider, like many of the things Cedarbridge mentioned.
But golly, it sure would be nice to start moving away from our stupid yakkety one hit stun combat...!
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by Armhulen » #256028

I mean I only said it because it was probably posted and denied 10000 times before so this is a pleasant surprise
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by onleavedontatme » #256034

kevinz000 wrote:No
PKPenguin321 wrote:I like it in theory but in reality it would be pretty awful, especially getting stunned and beaten to death from behind by someone/something you can't even see
Why do people who have never played with this keep telling people who have played with it and enjoyed it that it won't work
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by danno » #256036

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by cedarbridge » #256042

Ideally I'd like something like this be able to take into account sound and noise simulation. If somebody unzips an esword behind me, I should have some indication of that beyond just hearing it turn on somewhere.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by PKPenguin321 » #256090

Kor wrote:
kevinz000 wrote:No
PKPenguin321 wrote:I like it in theory but in reality it would be pretty awful, especially getting stunned and beaten to death from behind by someone/something you can't even see
Why do people who have never played with this keep telling people who have played with it and enjoyed it that it won't work
other people that enjoyed it are bringing up things like lifeweb which doesnt have the whole "get stunned and beaten to death" combat system that we do
i dont see it working well with our combat system and they agree with me
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by John_Oxford » #256096

you don't see lifewebs vision system working well with our combat system

the vision system presented is different from others, icons for specific types of sound in areas you cannot see will prevent the "oh look i got instastunned by this guy who just warped behind me and i couldn't see him"

you'll see and hear his foot steps
you'll hear (see) him access his backpack (shuffling icon)
you'll hear (see) him either take his taser out of his backpack or out of his armor (weapon drawing icon)
you'll hear (see) the taser fire (bolt icon)
you'll hear (see) the taser contact a tile next to you if he misses (impact icon)

this also doesn't take into account mirrors or having any form of situational awareness (actually looking behind you once in a while)
if anything we can shuffle hotkeys around and make q and e lean and alt q and alt e to look over your shoulder in that direction.

if you can't turn around fast enough with all of those icons you just need to git gud.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by Armhulen » #256097

Walking hides footsteps, sneaking should be semiviable at least
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by John_Oxford » #256100

walking without pausing makes sound. walking with like, say a two second pause in between makes the next step silent.

shoes affect the time length and certain shoes are silent even when running.

you can run in no shoes and be dead silent.
jackboots are always super fuckhuge loud
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TechnoAlchemist wrote:you where always right john, you where always right
>implying the admin conspiracy wasen't just confirmed by a admin.
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I don't even know what the fuck tg is.

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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by ShadowDimentio » #256179

I'll save my thoughts for when an autist actually spergs out and spends a month coding this well.

Until then, take this as a review: It sounds shit.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by Jacough » #256184

cedarbridge wrote:Ideally I'd like something like this be able to take into account sound and noise simulation. If somebody unzips an esword behind me, I should have some indication of that beyond just hearing it turn on somewhere.
A basic idea would be to sort of go with something like the drone vision to go with the fog of war. People running and making sounds would appear as sort of featureless and unidentifiable shadowy figures outside your cone of vision.

The whole black tile memory idea thing though just sounds kind of stupid though and just seems like it'd make navigation a bitch for people who don't have the maps memorized.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by Haevacht » #256244

No.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by Arianya » #256255

John_Oxford wrote: you'll see and hear his foot steps
you'll hear (see) him access his backpack (shuffling icon)
you'll hear (see) him either take his taser out of his backpack or out of his armor (weapon drawing icon)
you'll hear (see) the taser fire (bolt icon)
you'll hear (see) the taser contact a tile next to you if he misses (impact icon)
So basically the only thing you don't hear/see is their appearance/identity, compared to our existing system.

If you're going to give that much information to the average listener then why not just make a identity rework which would be simpler and less graphically demanding then "realistic vision + super hearing"
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by kevinz000 » #256257

korphaeron because in a game of stuns i don't want to die because i didn't click behind me every second to check for anyone trying to sneak up on me in a game of stuns. maybe if stuns weren't the primary combat method this would work, but honestly come on, i'd hate having to do that every second just to make sure no one is going to run at me with a taser/baton even with sounds.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by Steelpoint » #256258

Cone vision works for Lifeweb because their combat system is far more in depth and robust than ours ever will be.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by captain sawrge » #256282

You could very easily disable someone in lifeweb without them getting a chance to react. The issue isn't combat systems or whatever.

I think it was interesting in Lifeweb and it would be interesting here, but considering we almost had a funny forum civil war over toolboxes I'd say the fallout of pushing this would be enormous.
Then again I really don't give a shit if the whining pansies that hate literally all change pack up for a week before crawling back.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by confused rock » #256285

I mean ways to easily disable somebody seem less common there and I don't think you can gg no re ebow from 6 tiles away in a second, I love this idea a ton but you might have to change a lot of combat
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by Grazyn » #256291

Vision cone would be cool. We already have a few half-assed "realistic" visual tweaks like not being able to see attack messages if you're too far away, might as well go all in.

The memory system on the other hand... meh. Could get kinda frustrating with the way walls and windows affect your vision, you would see stuff in rooms and think it's real only to find out there's nothing there because it was on the single "false memory" tile that was blocked by a wall. People suddenly appearing behind you in the "memorized" area as they step in your visual cone etc. It would be akin to hallucination and could literally drive people mad. I'd rather have a simple black area on everything outside of your vision cone like in other roguelike games. This "behind-you" area wouldn't be affected by mesons/xray, the only way to overcome it would be a new implant like "eyes on the back of your head" or something like that
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by Xhuis » #256293

I like this idea, and if I knew how to make it I probably would. As it stands, sneaking is impossible without darkness or camouflage and I don't like that.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by Kel » #256303

>lifeweb
footstep sounds
no stuns in combat
at best you'll get a free stab on someone

>ss13
suddenly tased
unable to ever fight back from this point on
deceased
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by Armhulen » #256316

>no stuns in combat

>GROIN KICK GROIN KICK GROIN KICK
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by MisterPerson » #256326

Armhulen wrote:>no stuns in combat

>GROIN KICK GROIN KICK GROIN KICK
THAT'S MY PURSE
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by danno » #256340

Lifeweb had stuns/disables, but it was more intelligent in how they worked and were distributed.
The fact of the matter, I believe, is that you WOULD have to rework combat to really make this work.
But isn't that a good idea anyway?
captain sawrge wrote:You could very easily disable someone in lifeweb without them getting a chance to react. The issue isn't combat systems or whatever.

I think it was interesting in Lifeweb and it would be interesting here, but considering we almost had a funny forum civil war over toolboxes I'd say the fallout of pushing this would be enormous.
Then again I really don't give a shit if the whining pansies that hate literally all change pack up for a week before crawling back.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by Wyzack » #256355

People who think the game has a good combat sytem right now with the way stuns work are delusional
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by danno » #256357

Undoubtedly.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by Steelpoint » #256372

Amusingly someone posted this on the SS13 subreddit a hour ago that's surprisingly relevant to this discussion.

[youtube]0HVJvkiu7Xg[/youtube]
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by John_Oxford » #256441

Its more or less that.

By tile memory, i mean if you go into the armory, then leave and go out into the space outside of the armory, you can see the tiles inside of the armory with all the guns on them and stuff, its just not real time or guarnteed to be accurate. The only way to know if the guns we're really still there would be to go back into the armory and check, therefore updating the tiles.
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Re: Fog of War - Vision Cones Implementation

Post by John_Oxford » #256442

This also applies to security cameras. Scanning every area with the camera makes everything you can see with the camera memorized.

AI's can shift click station blueprints and have memorized tiles of every tile on the station (except items) as opposed to grey static.
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