Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

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cedarbridge
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Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by cedarbridge » #256575

Its becoming obvious that our current combat system focused around batons/prods/tasers/etc with ggnore stuns without response is having a pervasive negative effect on not only the activity itself but also on security as a role, borgs as a class, possible LOS design concepts and item design as a class.

Lets talk about how to redesign combat in a way that makes it interesting, fun, exciting, and interactive while also allowing for things like Abductors to still work as intended and stealth antags to prey silently on targets without instantly getting outted by their targets.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by kevinz000 » #256577

I agree, as long as I don't have to deal with the balancing :^)
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by danno » #256586

I was typing up a whole combat overhaul post but I got tired and left it. I'll try to post some of it
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by oranges » #256588

Things that will never happen and have already been tried for 20 dollars please alex
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by PKPenguin321 » #256593

Oh boy oh boy time for this thread again

I think the last time it was paprika that tried, yeah?
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by oranges » #256595

yeah, we got disablers out of that one
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cedarbridge
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by cedarbridge » #256596

PKPenguin321 wrote:Oh boy oh boy time for this thread again

I think the last time it was paprika that tried, yeah?
Sorta, that brought us disabler beams a log time ago. Ultimately I think that just exacerbated the problem.

This is getting its own thread since it seems to be a running theme in several other threads and would benefit from serious and focused discussion on what the required remake would need in order to function.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by danno » #256598

Disablers are really good though.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by cedarbridge » #256600

I'd honestly favor standard damaging weapons being made more lethal and reducing move speeds. That's how current era weapons work. An officer points a gun at you, you stop. Instead of spess combat where somebody points a gun at you and you sax even after eating 1-2 shots.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by danno » #256606

here's what i was working on
I'd like to start by describing a few hypothetical encounters for you; Some standard scenarios you might see while playing SS13 in it's current state.

Scenario A:

The station is in shambles, as per usual past 30 minutes. Alarms are going off in various areas, there are breaches, fires, etc.
The captain moves through the halls towards escape. The shuttle will arrive soon.
He encounters a man in a gas mask. The man turns towards him and reveals his double esword.
The captain quickly reaches for his saber with one hand, his other grasping at the baton in his suit storage.
The lock eyes, and...


Begin whipping around eachother at mach 3, circling around one another like two suns collapsing. Both are furiously clicking ~1 tile away from themselves in the general direction of their opponent. Both are praying for the first strike.
As they orbit eachother, each click makes them flip back and forth with gusto, jittering and seizing like mad, dying men.
The tactics change; The traitor begins to move north and south repeatedly down a hall way, the captain doing the same but one tile to the right. With each pass the suspense grows, each whiff of their weapons feeling closer than the last.
Suddenly, the captain shifts to the left. Now on the same trajectory, the two collide!


And awkwardly bump into each other as neither can quite make the click on the right frame. This continues for a few seconds before the traitor manages to finally click on the captain and knocks him down instantly. The fight is immediately over.

Scenario B:


A lone security officer stalks maintenance, investigating reports of a man with an ebow laying traps for unsuspecting crew members. He works his way slowly through the tunnels, carefully peeking around each corner and door, hand hovering over his taser.
As he passes through engineering maint, he turns a corner and in the darkness, he sees him. A man in a science jumpsuit. He's standing over the corpse of an assumed victim. The man turns and pulls out an ebow, firing a shot down the tunnel.
The officer quickly backs around the corner, pulling out his taser. After a moment, he jumps out and fires.

And fires. and fires. and fires. He hits a shot and the man falls. So he fires a few more into him until his taser is empty. He then walks up to the man and beats him to death with his buzzing baton. Pocketing the ebow, he leaves the corpse on the floor of the brig and fucks off.
I was going to then try to outline some scenarios from Lifeweb specifically to try and show that combat in byond CAN be done in an engaging and interesting way

The example that REALLY STICKS OUT IN MY MIND HARD was this moment I witnessed in Lifeweb where I believe a cerberus or someone was out in the street and they were accosted by a sword wielding vampire.
The fight that ensued was mind blowing, with them each taking deliberate steps with each attack, parrying each other as they moved along the street. One of them even took a fucking highground during the fight. It was the man's skill, equipment, and training he had done pitted against the vampire's raw strength and ability to ignore pain; It was the culmination of a full round of gearing up and various encounters that had lead the two to this moment. The fight lasted probably 45 seconds or so, and it wasn't just them whipping past each other and furiously clicking. It was 45 seconds of actual involved combat.

It was like a choreographed fight scene in an old movie or a play or something and it was enthralling.

Now clearly we can't just base our combat on that. But there's a lot of important things to take away from it, primarily that combat CAN BE COOL.
It's worth looking into ideas like combat stances and more intent options and contextual stuff too (Kicks, wrenching grabs, stuff like that.)
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by danno » #256611

The problem is that stuff like slowdown has to happen alongside a bunch of other shit, like removing stuns.

Our combat system has grown into a disgusting, symbiotic mess and if you start fucking with just one thing it throws it all out of wack.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Luke Cox » #256612

I wouldn't mind if security consisted of beating people who didn't come quietly into unconsciousness. Unconsciousness should be induced if you take enough brute damage within a short span. It'll be like catching a pokemon.
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ShadowDimentio
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by ShadowDimentio » #256613

It's a "lets move away from stun combat but lmao I don't have any ideas how to do it" thread episode again

The only possible alternative would be a damage based system, but that would only work by rebalancing the ENTIRE GAME from the ground up, something that would take coordination our coders could never achieve or one guy to sperg out and spend a solid month in the most intimate parts of our server's core systems fucking around as the walls shift around him and threaten to make all his work outdated and irrelevant.

Basically keep dreaming faggot stuns are here to stay.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by danno » #256614

We're literally talking about our ideas on how to do it you dull fuck
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by John_Oxford » #256615

Remove stuns from the station.

No stunprods, stun batons, telescopic batons, remove flashes stun ability and remove tasers. give security energy guns at round start.

if it makes you feel better ill make you a "energy carbine" so the autists screeching "BUT SEKRUITY KANT HAF LETHALS AT ROUND START REEEEEEEEEE" will go "OH ITS NOT A NORMAL ENERGY GUN PROBELM SALVED AYLMAO"
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by John_Oxford » #256616

Remove hard stuns, stamina damage is the only kind of stun.

Stun Batons now do more brute damage and a decent amount of burn damage when turned on and used, also destroy stamina.
Telescopic Batons now throw arcs of blood and have a chance to disorient and confuse.
Flashes are now old flashes and don't stun or disorient they just turn your screen white.
Hybrid Tasers no longer spawn anywhere on the station, they are replaced with energy guns.
Keep flashbangs because they are unwieldy anyways.
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TechnoAlchemist wrote:you where always right john, you where always right
>implying the admin conspiracy wasen't just confirmed by a admin.
see, i told you motherfuckers.
NikNakFlak wrote:this isn't a game you can't just post whenever you want
I don't even know what the fuck tg is.

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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by ShadowDimentio » #256620

It's a fine idea on paper but in practice it'll turn the lightly frothing pot of community assblast into a total overflowing boil.

People hate stuns because they dunk them. What's more permanent than getting stunned? Getting killed. Sec shooting people for not complying after doing minor crimes currently escalates into a tazer shot. In your system the greyshirt running around punching the clown gets shot dead and bitches in deadchat/the forums about how he dindu nuffin and shitcurity etc.
Spoiler:
"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
-Anonmare

"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
-Armhulenn

">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
-Bluespace

">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
-Anonmare

"Then why did you get that boob job?"
-DrPillzRedux

"You take that back you colonial mongrel"
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by D&B » #256622

How about making stuns damage stamina instead.

Like Oxford said, make tasers do enough stamina damage to produce the slowdown (which could now add click delays) and stun batons damage stamina greatly until you make someone pass out so you can cuff them.

Make krav maga gloves do stamina damage rather than real damage, and wardens would mix their skills without the ai screaming harm.
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[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by onleavedontatme » #256626

I had PR that made it impossible to restun a person if they were already stunned and surprised everyone was upset their batons didn't win the fight in one hit.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Luke Cox » #256636

D&B wrote:How about making stuns damage stamina instead.

Like Oxford said, make tasers do enough stamina damage to produce the slowdown (which could now add click delays) and stun batons damage stamina greatly until you make someone pass out so you can cuff them.
This is actually a really good idea. Doesn't require a ton of rebalancing, and still achieves the desired effect. We could even make certain armors give stamina resistance.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by John_Oxford » #256639

Having a "oh you have to have a long extended fight every time you get into combat with someone" is how you stagnate the server and lose half of the playerbase because its ss13 not street fighter.
remove stuns - add stamina damage to replace stuns - debuff armor - buff weapon damage across the board

damage or get out
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TechnoAlchemist wrote:you where always right john, you where always right
>implying the admin conspiracy wasen't just confirmed by a admin.
see, i told you motherfuckers.
NikNakFlak wrote:this isn't a game you can't just post whenever you want
I don't even know what the fuck tg is.

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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Luke Cox » #256646

John_Oxford wrote:Having a "oh you have to have a long extended fight every time you get into combat with someone" is how you stagnate the server and lose half of the playerbase because its ss13 not street fighter.
remove stuns - add stamina damage to replace stuns - debuff armor - buff weapon damage across the board

damage or get out
I agree, and that's why I think that making it stamina-based is a good idea. I absolutely agree that we can't remove all stuns, but the ones we do have are in severe need of balancing. In a stamina-based system, each hit makes the subsequent one easier (see: disablers), but the target does have some means of recourse.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by ShadowDimentio » #256676

Disablers are trash. It's hard enough landing one shot, god forbid five even WITH slowdown.
Spoiler:
"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
-Anonmare

"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
-Armhulenn

">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
-Bluespace

">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
-Anonmare

"Then why did you get that boob job?"
-DrPillzRedux

"You take that back you colonial mongrel"
-Docprofsmith

"I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds."
-Malkraz
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Luke Cox
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Luke Cox » #256678

ShadowDimentio wrote:Disablers are trash. It's hard enough landing one shot, god forbid five even WITH slowdown.
I can land it well enough when I'm on a laptop and I'm not even that robust. Sorry, but git gud
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Steelpoint » #256680

Go with Goonstations combat.
  • Stun Batons are still as they are now, they are used to keep a perp surpressed. (Also you can't use it on harm intent, you'll just hit yourself)
  • Tasers lose the disabler mode, the stun mode has six shots. However you require two successful stun hits to stun someone. In actuality the stun duration is determined by the range you hit them, a point blank hit will not only one shot stun a target but it'll stun them. A single hit will cause the target to drop any item they have equipped.
  • Projectile Bullet weapons remains somewhat the same but they deal around double the damage they do now.
  • Laser weapons deal a massive amount of damage per laser, usually being able to two or three shot crit someone and they are capable of ripping off someone's limb.
  • Significantly buff armour so that someone wearing armour will take around what we consider normal damage from laser and bullet based weapons. However armour piercing bullets can negate this advantage heavily.
Its a lot more complicated then that, but eh.

I expect nothing to come from this thread though, considering we get one of these ever year now.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by D&B » #256682

ShadowDimentio wrote:Disablers are trash. It's hard enough landing one shot, god forbid five even WITH slowdown.
Learn to guide shots
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?
J_Madison wrote: that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you
ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.
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danno
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by danno » #256686

ShadowDimentio wrote:Disablers are trash. It's hard enough landing one shot, god forbid five even WITH slowdown.
literally git gud lol
Steelpoint wrote:Go with Goonstations combat.
Tasers lose the disabler mode, the stun mode has six shots.
fuck no
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ShadowDimentio
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by ShadowDimentio » #256688

>People telling me to git gud

That's MY THING to tell EVERYONE ELSE TO DO REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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danno
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by danno » #256689

maybe don't be such a little pussy then
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by IcePacks » #256707

make it so that damage causes you to get up (and heals stamina damage if you're going to do nothing about the bullshit of disablers)

remove (or nerf) disablers (into line with tasers) because stamina damage is stuns on crack(we don't need ranged slowdowns nor do we need ranged variable/potentially endless length stuns)

make cablecuffs (not handcuffs) break when the mob is attacked too much

i won't deny stun and done is bullshit but actually fixing it will be tricky
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Luke Cox » #256721

IcePacks wrote:make it so that damage causes you to get up (and heals stamina damage if you're going to do nothing about the bullshit of disablers)

remove (or nerf) disablers (into line with tasers) because stamina damage is stuns on crack(we don't need ranged slowdowns nor do we need ranged variable/potentially endless length stuns)

make cablecuffs (not handcuffs) break when the mob is attacked too much

i won't deny stun and done is bullshit but actually fixing it will be tricky
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Cik » #256722

the whole problem with combat is:

people are too fucking fast
people are too fucking slippery; that is to say, there is no way to actually STOP or restrict someone from moving without clicking their sprite with a ggnore melee/ranged weapon. they move a significant fraction of that weapon

the game desperately needs a grapple/tackle/wrestle system to allow you to actually limit people's movement. as it is, stuns are the only way to go until you are at revolver+ tier lethality because otherwise they will have time to write a novel before they are at a reasonable and manageable speed due to incurred damage.

the only effective weapons are extremely high damage, extremely high stun weapons precisely because of the sax. and this isn't going to change until you change the total superiority of saxxing vs. everything that isn't a (preferably ranged) stun weapon.

there is no pain, and no real debilitating injuries either. and this is why combat is junk. this and the fact every spaceman is a fucking eel that runs at the speed of laser bolts.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Steelpoint » #256723

What if people started moving slow and speed up after a few seconds of moving.

Lethal weapons could have a pain rating that would slightly slow down someone, not significantly but enough that using a lethal weapon is viable over a stun.

I dunno, just spitting out ideas.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Screemonster » #256736

How about staggering people rather than outright stunning if the saxxing is an issue, stopping them moving for a tick or two so you can follow up?
horribly shitty pseudocode ahead:

Code: Select all

target.client.move_delay = min(world.time + stagger, target.client.move_delay + stagger)
For real fun have a small chance of doing it even if they block the shot/hit, just for images of defenders having to root themselves to the floor and brace against their riot shields while the tide throw shit at them. For real real fun have a smaller chance (if it's a high brute weapon) of forcing them back a tile when they do so.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Remie Richards » #256744

Cik wrote:the whole problem with combat is:

people are too fucking fast
people are too fucking slippery; that is to say, there is no way to actually STOP or restrict someone from moving without clicking their sprite with a ggnore melee/ranged weapon. they move a significant fraction of that weapon
So we remove run, make walk the default movement intent, and have a sprint intent that uses up stamina as you move, but gives you current run speed.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Fiz Bump » #256746

We already have a number of ways to circumvent or deal with stun based combat. Shields, chems, bolas, fire-based weaponry. The issue is that players don't really utilize these resources.
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Lumbermancer
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Lumbermancer » #256747

But we tried to move away from stun combat before and it was a shitfest.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by cedarbridge » #256763

Remie Richards wrote:
Cik wrote:the whole problem with combat is:

people are too fucking fast
people are too fucking slippery; that is to say, there is no way to actually STOP or restrict someone from moving without clicking their sprite with a ggnore melee/ranged weapon. they move a significant fraction of that weapon
So we remove run, make walk the default movement intent, and have a sprint intent that uses up stamina as you move, but gives you current run speed.
That would be solid and would give design space for stamina+ items or even foods.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by WJohnston » #256767

Kor wrote:I had PR that made it impossible to restun a person if they were already stunned and surprised everyone was upset their batons didn't win the fight in one hit.
This might have actually worked relatively well. You can still oneshot someone but it prevents you from taking on entire groups of people and win effortlessly just by having a few tasers and then a high damage weapon to kill them.

More than this, I think that no matter what we do, the players are all going to wail and bitch and moan about how their precious instawin combat was changed to be less retarded.

So uh, screw them all, I guess, and we do what needs to be done, no matter how unpopular it is.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by oranges » #256768

WJohnston wrote:
Kor wrote:I had PR that made it impossible to restun a person if they were already stunned and surprised everyone was upset their batons didn't win the fight in one hit.
This might have actually worked relatively well. You can still oneshot someone but it prevents you from taking on entire groups of people and win effortlessly just by having a few tasers and then a high damage weapon to kill them.

More than this, I think that no matter what we do, the players are all going to wail and bitch and moan about how their precious instawin combat was changed to be less retarded.

So uh, screw them all, I guess, and we do what needs to be done, no matter how unpopular it is.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Steelpoint » #256776

Forcing everyone to move at walking speed is going to be painful.

It also going to see the sec-way be used a lot more frequently by security, but that's off topic.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Remie Richards » #256794

Steelpoint wrote:Forcing everyone to move at walking speed is going to be painful.

It also going to see the sec-way be used a lot more frequently by security, but that's off topic.
I don't know the actual in-use values, but the example config has:
RUN_DELAY 1
WALK_DELAY 4

With walk becoming the stable, I'd say it should go down to 3.
Provided we still have room between them, if the in-use config says 2 and 3, then it really can't change as that'd defeat the point.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by oranges » #256795

Don't do it man, the last speed nerf was a huge slapfight it's not worth it you gotta get out of there
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Remie Richards » #256796

cedarbridge wrote:-snip-
That would be solid and would give design space for stamina+ items or even foods.
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fruity robot man wrote: Don't do it man, the last speed nerf was a huge slapfight it's not worth it you gotta get out of there
I stand by the last speed nerf being for the betterment of the game, this time people are actively WANTING it (in some form or another) just so that combat can be improved.
I think it's worth a shot.

Also I get flak and shit for things like "being unrobost" because I tried to remove tactical chairs ("u suck", "git gud" etc, when it wasn't even my idea ;_;), so if I'm gonna get shit anyway... may aswell try and do something with it!
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by XDTM » #256799

People seriously complained about tactical chair removal? I thought it was just a meme
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Steelpoint » #256802

I would like to see a full write up proposal of what you, or others, would suggest be changed to suit a new combat system.

I think for better or for worse the changes Paprika made to combat were overall more positive than negative, and we eventually ironed out some of the kinks over time.

I'd rather take some time so we know exactly what is going to be proposed to change, instead of us getting drip feeds of minor changes to combat.

Just making people move at a walking pace and adding a sprint bar does not seem to be enough of a change.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Remie Richards » #256804

Well If I'm doing it (hopefully this weekend), it'll be:

Definitely:
  • Walking Only
  • Sprint bar
  • Stuns replaced entirely with Stamina
Maybe:
  • Armour buffed (potentially to pre-kor levels?)
  • Damage buffs
I'll try not to dripfeed it, and if I have to dripfeed it, then we can just hold off on merger until all parts are done (so dripfed PRs vs. dripfed in-game changes)
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Screemonster » #256805

XDTM wrote:People seriously complained about tactical chair removal? I thought it was just a meme
it was more a "click a vague direction, execute a melee attack if someone's in that direction" thing. People complained that this is apparently an aimbot that ruins "skill" despite being literally the same as blasting a motherfucker point-blank with a ranged weapon, just click behind them and if they're there they get hit.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Remie Richards » #256807

Screemonster wrote:
XDTM wrote:People seriously complained about tactical chair removal? I thought it was just a meme
it was more a "click a vague direction, execute a melee attack if someone's in that direction" thing. People complained that this is apparently an aimbot that ruins "skill" despite being literally the same as blasting a motherfucker point-blank with a ranged weapon, just click behind them and if they're there they get hit.
Think Hotline Miami, it was something both MrPerson and Paprika had come up with as an Idea.
I only did it because MrP got burned out and never finished his version (which involved super jank hitbox code that he wasn't fully happy with, where as mine simply -worked-) and I liked the idea, literally no ties to specific ingame instances or anything, and yet "tactical chairs" and "git gud"s all around.
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Re: Moving Away from Stun and Done combat

Post by Screemonster » #256808

I was considering something involving harm-intent clicking a tile would be taken as an intent to attack something on that tile, which would at least reduce the stupid shit with people shaving their heads to make their hitbox smaller.
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