/tg/Station 13

I was thinking of an idea to make it a little bit harder on the traitors. What I think would be cool to add is the ability to void I.D. cards, to make them totally useless to the Traitors,Lings,etc. This might have been done on other servers but i just think it would be an interesting concept. Also it would make it that much harder to get the beloved green text. I don't think it would make thinks that much harder. however i am a noob when it comes to programing so if it would make it easier you could just do it to the heads I.D.

So like, take them away?

Not really. what i mean is basically wiping the card from a console or something making them useless to the antags

There is no objective in the game that requires a antagonist to hold a certain level Access Card.

However your suggestion on offering a way to wipe a ID's access to, say, assistants level would be a good addition, at least for Security, the Captain and the HoP.

I was saying if the antag stole the...lets say HOS I.D..... and the captain new this he could wipe the card preventing access before he could do damage

I have a concern about devaluing an antag stealing an ID because said ID can be nuked from orbit. I mean yeah on the one hand it's annoying for the heads of staff to not really be able to do much about ID theft, but on the other the antag worked hard to steal said ID only to have it taken away via a no-effort HoP or Captain sitting on a computer.

In practice it would almost certainly only be used to remove access on the Captain's, spare Captain's, HoP's, and HoS's ID's. Maybe the other heads of staff or security officers if someone killed them. So I dunno. I want to hear what other people think about this.

I actually misunderstood the suggestion, did not know it was to remotely remove access.

Either way though it would encourage antags to get Agent ID Cards to copy over the access before it gets revoked.

Its not necessarily a bad idea and could help cut down on rogue station personnel looting higher access ID's.

So, it would essentially be a new terminal for Security from which you could manually prevent an ID Card from working?

I would half approve of this. New Traitor Shenanigans, A way to counter a known loud Traitor. On the other hand, imagine the Griff.

I think we need less magically convenient things.

We could just add it as a another option on the identification console. And i think traitors have it to easy. they always end up ransacking the armory and breaking into the caps office. I just think they need a little more of a challenge.


Edit: i am not meaning i am evil and want to make it hard as possible. am just saying it would add more depth to the game

";HELP X IS KILLING ME"
>hop removes acces from x
>x is now stuck in a room while sec goes there to kill him

this is just a terrible idea, not to mention the fact that a traitor hop could easily remove acces from everyone and have them stuck in their rooms, unable to do anything.

stopping a traitor should maybe involve some risk instead of just sitting at a computer and disabling him completely without effort. it wouldnt be fun for anyone who got their acces voided.

Not an idea I'd put into practice.
Now, if we can make paper, money, and IDs flammable that'd be neat.
Light an ID on fire so it's useless, light cigars with a wad of cash, that'd add a new mechanic to the card at least.

Rather than having the ability to void any ID from any range, how about just giving the HoS and Captain-level access IDs the ability to set Assistant-level access by "swiping" their card on another?

Giving people the ability to void any ID over any range just seems like a bad idea and OP as hell.

I dont see how it would be that op. the wiping thing can work against you too if the antag gets a heads card and wipes the others as well.

Antag or not, being able to remove any access of an ID at a press of a button is just way too strong. Lets say an antag gets a head-level ID card, he would be able to lock down the station by removing access from every other card in the system. People would be trapped in their departments with no way out. No HoP is going to restore access to 40+ players, or go through the effort to save them from their prisons.

If a known traitor is running around, as others have said, being able to instantly void his ID remotely would screw him over completely. Especially if he is in maint or gets trapped in a department. Sure he could use an Agent card, but that would change the meta a LOT. No traitor item should be "required" for you to do your objective.

I am all for giving heads an easy way to lower access on ID cards without needing to bug the HoP. But this just seems like it would imbalance the game.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:I think we need less magically convenient things.

>Implying a research station in space 500 years from now wouldn't have a way to lock out people's access.

>Implying we don't have that already.

It's not really "magically convenient". It's a basic security feature for most corporations today, and has been available for a couple decades. It's just not a very good idea for implementation in this game as it would just throw things completely out of balance.

I'm talking game mechanics, not backstory.

I mean, jee, sorry if my post confused you, but look in the title, "gameplay mechanic" probably means something.

Alex Crimson wrote:Antag or not, being able to remove any access of an ID at a press of a button is just way too strong. Lets say an antag gets a head-level ID card, he would be able to lock down the station by removing access from every other card in the system. People would be trapped in their departments with no way out. No HoP is going to restore access to 40+ players, or go through the effort to save them from their prisons.

Thats why I suggested we only do it to the Heads and not the whole crew. Now that i think about it though it would make the station a nightmare if you could wipe any damn card.

Just imagine the grief people would do. Even non-antags break the rules and murder, steal, and do random shit. Imagine an idiotic Captain (which happens ALOT) just deciding, Fuck You HoP! and wiping all of his access. It makes sense backstory wise, but in a game where you need stuff to be balanced, its too overpowered.

I'd rather have it so heads of staff could use their IDs on their subordinates' ID to instantly demote them. That way, at least the traitor/griffon/clown etc needs to have been subdued beforehand to allow an access downgrade. Also, speaking from personal experience, heads are in a dire need of a more streamlined method to demote misbehaving children in their department.

Reimoo wrote:I'd rather have it so heads of staff could use their IDs on their subordinates' ID to instantly demote them. That way, at least the traitor/griffon/clown etc needs to have been subdued beforehand to allow an access downgrade. Also, speaking from personal experience, heads are in a dire need of a more streamlined method to demote misbehaving children in their department.

Pretty much this.

While having a computer that could remotely demote access is a nice idea in theory, in practice it would be horrifyingly unbalanced. A AI or head of staff can just revoke that mass murdering Traitors ID and suddenly he's stuck.

Giving heads of staff a simple magnetic swiper in their office that demotes the swiped ID to assistant access would be great.

I'm pretty sure demotion was added some time ago.

I think swipe is not necessary, I also think that demotion itself is not necessary.

Swipe doesn't make sense, because it would also GIVE THEM MAINTENANCE, in case of some jobs it's even fucking better.

Plus it takes away half of HoP's job and pretty much makes subordinate-head conflicts only be resolvable one way.

Seriously, we have a guy specifically responsible for managing IDs for a reason. We don't have CMO go and fix engines in case CE is a dummy.

FYI All heads have access to ID computers.

An ID computer exists on the bridge (on boxstation) for all heads to use.

A more intuitive method is in the works, but don't expect it any time soon.

The computer sounds so nice, but I agree it would get abused... shame.

Swiping would be great. I guess I accept that heads are expected to robust and strip insubordinate crew (as if the head were a common greyshirt, not the commanding officer in a military heirarchy), but once they have managed that, they should have a convenient way to remove the access.

As is, there's no real punishment for ignoring the command chain. Even if the head robusts the (somehow non-criminal) deserter, the ID still ends up at the HoP, assuming the head wastes several minutes finding the HoP, and the HoP agrees to do their job.

So there's absolutely no reason for greyshirts not to pick a real job like engineer and just fuck off. Even if the head cares enough to waste 5-10 minutes hunting them down and arranging their demotion, they don't lose anything compared to starting as assistant.

This should really be a job for security. I'd add a new crime: Deriliction of Duty, 0 minutes and demotion. Letting robust heads skip the long HoP visit with a card swipe is good too though.

Rolan7 wrote:the ID still ends up at the HoP, assuming the head wastes several minutes finding the HoP, and the HoP agrees to do their job.

It's like you didn't even read the post before yours!

Ikarrus wrote:FYI All heads have access to ID computers.

An ID computer exists on the bridge (on boxstation) for all heads to use.

All heads have the capability to demote their subordinates' IDs

His point still stands, though. At the moment the effort needed to demote a subordinate is much more trouble than it's worth.

Going on that earlier line of thought here's a few quick suggestions.

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- New crime added to Space Law
Dereliction of Duty: Immediate demotion of offending party, stripped of all job related items, access reverted to Assistant level and given standard issue assistant items (Grey Jumpsuit, Backpack, blank PDA).

Dereliction is defined as a crew member willingly abandoning their assigned post without authorization from their department head. If a high priority jobs(Setting up the Sing) is not accomplished then it is considered Dereliction of Duty to all members of that department if they have left that department.

- Addition of spare Assistant items in Security.

- Addition of a system to allow Security to strip access to a given ID down to an Assistant (Head ID's immune to this, Agent ID cards will only disable access for 5 minutes and then automaticly revert to original access).

- Addition of a method to blatantly inform the HoP that a given crew member has been demoted on order of Security, the relevant head or the Captain. (From the requests console?)

- Random idea of giving all heads of staff (Exception to Captain/HoP/HoS) a very basic sidearm for personal defence and to make demotions easier (Even worse than a Taser, one only, maybe two shots).

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Security should already be assisting heads with demotions, and codifying it in space law sounds like a good way to reinforce this.

I'm extremely hesitant to give security independent demotion powers, though. If security wants to have someone demoted they should have to go through the department head.

Ikarrus wrote:I'm extremely hesitant to give security independent demotion powers, though. If security wants to have someone demoted they should have to go through the department head.

I kind of agree with this, I'd rather not have overzealous sec/shitcurity go demote someone because it's roundstart and they're an engineer that left engineering at round-start (after someone else already said they'd set up the singularity), or a scientist stepping out for some food (after spending most of the round breeding slimes), or a roboticist "not doing their job" (when no one wants to be borged), or any of that kind of shit.

Demotions need to be reasonably easy to do and not a massive waste of time for little gain.

It could be a system where you need a relevant head ID card to do the demotion.

So for example, McJoe AbandonPost the Engineer steals a Engineering Hardsuit and bails at round start. The CE notify s Sec who promptly arrests McJoe, the CE swings by Sec, hands the Officer/HoS their ID which is used on a computer to demote McJoe to an Assistant.

That might be an acceptable compromise to giving Sec full demotion powers.

Demotions need to be easy for the department head, not security.

Steelpoint wrote:Demotions need to be reasonably easy to do and not a massive waste of time for little gain.

It could be a system where you need a relevant head ID card to do the demotion.

So for example, McJoe AbandonPost the Engineer steals a Engineering Hardsuit and bails at round start. The CE notify s Sec who promptly arrests McJoe, the CE swings by Sec, hands the Officer/HoS their ID which is used on a computer to demote McJoe to an Assistant.

That might be an acceptable compromise to giving Sec full demotion powers.

What you are describing is the process that already exists.

>CE Reports Engineer Mcjoe
>Sec arrests Engineer McJoe
>HoP/CE takes their ID and demotes them using the ID computer

No no no, never give the security the ability to demote people, NEVER EVER DO THAT

Seriously, heads have sidearms. They're called flashes.

Heads can demote people, just gotta walk to the bridge.

Are these complaints coming from people who play heads? Because personally I never have an issue with demoting people (which doesn't come up all that often anyway).

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Seriously, heads have sidearms. They're called flashes.

Telescopic batons.

This is the idea section for regular tgcode, heads don't have telescopic batons.

geilebeer wrote:This is the idea section for regular tgcode, heads don't have telescopic batons.

Well we should getting to porting it then, huh?

No.

geilebeer wrote:This is the idea section for regular tgcode, heads don't have telescopic batons.

I know, I'm somewhat-subtly campaigning about some of the cool things Artyom does have.