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HELP: Adding reward mechanics to engineering

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:22 pm
by Oldman Robustin
I've pitched this idea for security before in my feedback thread from last month.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9376 (Bullet point #4)

This thread focuses on what engineering could be like and where I need the most help in making it a reality. . One of the unhealthy things about SS13 gameplay is how some departments have an incentive to stick around (cargo, mining, science, parts of medbay, parts of service) whereas two major departments (engineering, security) are basically in peak condition 5 minutes into the round and only deteriorate from there. My proposal is that these two departments get unique currencies (call it a voucher) that can be earned by performing tasks related to good job performance and spent on unique and rewarding items.

Engineering would receive points for the following:

1) Excess Power. There would be a device added to all maps that would allow engineering to "export" surplus power. This is the most important mechanic because it encourages engineers to stay engaged and work on a long-term project even once the initial engine is set up. Engineers can spend their round optimizing the SM engine, wiring solars, adding extra solar panels, adding a second engine, utilizing and optimizing the turbine, and working with science to get advanced PACMEN online.

2) Atmos would have a system similar to the excess power mechanic that engineers have. Atmos would have "orders" for other corporations with that would adjust every ~10 minutes. The market would be a semi-random list of certain mixes with specific ratios, temperatures, and pressures. I think the simplest and most intuitive way to implement this would be to use canisters and a special machine that would consume the canisters and pay based on the price. The lower price items would be a simple mixes with wide tolerances for error, the highest price items would tend to be complex mixes at extreme temperatures with very precise ratios that can only be accomplished through advanced atmos wizardry. The market would only accept one canister for each order (to make the focus on quality and not canister spamming an easy mix).

3) Lack of air alarms and power alarms. Engineering would receive a fixed, periodic bonus that is reduced by air and power alarms. As an example: Every 5 minutes engineers would get 1,000 points. However this bonus drops by 50 for every air or power alarm. At 20 or more alarms there would be no bonus. Destroyed air/apc systems would count as alarms and should be appear on the power console as "not responding".

4) Engineering would also receive a similar bonus for the % of station APC's being charged. This would encourage engineering to be proactive about snipped wires and power problems before rooms start going dark.

5) Engineering would also receive a similar bonus for unhacked doors. This bonus would be reduced depending on the number of doors that have been emagged, cut power, cut bolts, and shocked. The CE would have a "tagger" (hell just make it his stamp) that could be used to mark hacked (not emagged) doors as "Certified" so engineering wouldn't be penalized for doors that have intentionally been hacked in a certain way.

6) There is a possibility for an "expansion" bonus, for adding a new room to the station with power and air. This bonus would be modest, akin to a participation medal, to prevent exploits. There could also be similar bonuses for transit tubes based on longest connected length (aside from the AI one). Finally there may be a "survey" that can be sent out to the various heads of staff every 15m or so asking the depts. to rate engineering's service. A bonus or penalty may be assessed depending on the outcome. These are the most theoretical ideas.

These rewards would need to be unique and powerful to justify engineers dedicating their rounds to these tasks. I believe that most of these rewards should come in "batches" to ensure that all participants are rewarded and not just the CE or whoever gets to the reward machine first. Ideas would include:
  • Bluespace (ranged) RCD's, more efficient, higher capacity, faster channeling.
  • Prototype hardsuits. Cutting edge hardsuits that do not slow indoors, have an internal jetpack, and a long cooldown (and briefly channeled) teleport that will go back to the engineering lobby and/or any room with a power/air alarm going off.
  • Construction bomb. The room this bomb is detonated in will be restored to its roundstart condition (in terms of structures, turf, and machinery).
  • Retirement capsule. Would deploy in space like the miner's capsule. This capsule would deploy into an engineer's paradise. A luxurious set of rooms with a relaxed vibe. A purchase would come with several single-use teleportation devices and the facility would be resilient to damage/attacks from the outside (at the very least it would have meteor shields and some defense mechanics). There would be a teleporter inside for anyone wishing to return to the station. The facility would also have an oversized escape pod with all the finest accommodations.
  • Engi-Mechs. A set of mechs with all the latest in construction technology. Ranged RCD, ultra powerful air filtration pump, pressurization module for refilling a room's air supply, the most effective firefighting system to date, an omni-tool that can quickly change to various tools and possibly be used at range. Also, a breach protection system that would imitate the breach shield devices over a targeted area - and ion thrusters of course.
  • Stungloves (wew lads)
  • Reinforced Hardhats/Vests, protection that surpasses ordinary armor/helmets
  • No-slow magboots
  • High-capacity jetpack harnesses (think like the nukeop jetpack but with more air capacity than ordinary jetpacks)
  • Auto-tile, a device that can be filled with any floor tile and instantly replace floor tiles with that type.
  • Auto-light, a device that creates a new light from scratch on any wall in a powered area.
  • Construction Materials
  • Spare Hardsuits
  • Construction nuke. Wew. The ultimate engineering reward, won't be seen in 99% of rounds. Restores the station's turf/structures to perfect condition, all machinery is repaired/upgraded with the best parts if they aren't already, atmos is restored, all walls/floored/windows become indestructible.
These rewards would run the gamut from cheap and instant gratification for keeping the station intact to extremely pricey items that will only be seen after 45-60m of concerted effort from the entire engineering team. I feel confident that I can code most of the rewards, and simpler stuff like a power-exporter, but the more complex mechanics I would absolutely need help from one or more coders on if this is ever going to move beyond pipe dream status.

Re: HELP: Adding reward mechanics to engineering

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:32 pm
by kevinz000
Never thought I'd say that this would be more overpowered than anything science can get
But it is
Also security is a player issue your round start gear is good enough for anything but nukeops.

Re: HELP: Adding reward mechanics to engineering

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:37 pm
by TrustyGun
A lot of these are pretty crazy and probably won't be implemented.

I like the idea of a bluespace RCD though

Re: HELP: Adding reward mechanics to engineering

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:55 pm
by Oldman Robustin
kevinz000 wrote:Never thought I'd say that this would be more overpowered than anything science can get
But it is
Also security is a player issue your round start gear is good enough for anything but nukeops.
It seems absurd to suggest that when prices/income are still completely undecided. This isn't something where you can just start vomiting rewards 5 minutes into the round. Some of these would be as common for engineers as Phazons are for science. Yet you don't hear anyone bitching about science having access to a mech that can literally travel through walls.

The whole point of these is that it's not healthy for the game to let RND have a monopoly on cool "endgame" stuff. RND still has some of the best guns, best armor, craziest gear, fucking insane implants, mechs, etc... there's only a couple combat themed items on this list and those still pale in comparison to stuff that science can do ... and its just a brainstorm.

Re: HELP: Adding reward mechanics to engineering

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:32 pm
by D&B
kevinz000 wrote:Never thought I'd say that this would be more overpowered than anything science can get
But it is
Also security is a player issue your round start gear is good enough for anything but nukeops.
>Be ling
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>Proceed to stab the officer to death with my massive throbbing armblade while he tries to defend himself with his small, pitiful stun baton

Re: HELP: Adding reward mechanics to engineering

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:07 pm
by kevinz000
D&B wrote:
kevinz000 wrote:Never thought I'd say that this would be more overpowered than anything science can get
But it is
Also security is a player issue your round start gear is good enough for anything but nukeops.
>Be ling
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>Proceed to stab the officer to death with my massive throbbing armblade while he tries to defend himself with his small, pitiful stun baton
Stuns are the best weapons.

Re: HELP: Adding reward mechanics to engineering

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:17 pm
by D&B
My point is stuns are nothing a ling needs to worry about when they have an EMP reeeee. Saying the starting gear is good for everything except flukies is wrong.

Re: HELP: Adding reward mechanics to engineering

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:05 pm
by Nabski
With the redone engine this seems like the best time to do this.

I love the idea behind the atmos mix selling one. My only concern with it is how pipes will occasionally get 0% whatever stuck in them after you try to clear the lines. I suppose the easiest way to fix that is Required Temp. Required Pressure. X% Gas 1. X% Gas 2. Under X% Gas 3, but not make them add up to 100%.

Rewards: Bluespace air interface. Because it's the future and the only one that can set plasma to filter out across the station is the AI.

Power tools. Thanks for testing those for us science.

The Bluespace RCD might have issues if you can use it from cameras like the part replacer. Maybe it just pulls materials/energy from something you've set up. Load it with plasma sheets to "proselytize" into plasma doors and floor tiles for full traitor action.

An upgraded rapid piper could have them start wrenched down (but maybe not welded for disposals for balance).

Goggles that extend vision by 1 range, but only with meson quality. (Eye replacements/implants make that so broken)

Re: HELP: Adding reward mechanics to engineering

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:17 pm
by BeeSting12
This sounds a lot better than the security thread. Most of the shit on your list is ridiculously overpowered, but that can be fine-tuned later. What I really like is that this gives engineering an incentive to actually work on making more power instead of going "wew lad engine's up time to fuck off to space." The atmospheric thing is also really cool, if nothing else comes out of this, getting that would be great. And I do agree with Robustin on the subject of science getting all the fun endgame stuff. The other departments should get some love too, as long as it isn't ridiculously OP like the construction nuke.

If there's one thing I don't like, it's the fact that you added stungloves, an item used for combat on there. It would encourage engineers to valid hunt the minute they get their points.

Re: HELP: Adding reward mechanics to engineering

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:13 am
by Jacough
Armored hazard vest and stun gloves (which would probably be rejected because "we're moving away from stun based combat") probably wouldn't be a good idea considering they're more combat focused. Engineering rewards should be more construction/repair oriented. I really like the idea of being able to order additional hardsuits, especially for atmos since someone always fucks off with the atmos hardsuit roundstart which makes fixing pipes in bombed out areas a nightmare. Being able to order regular hardsuits or maybe more generic hard suits (more protection than a space suit but less elemental resistances than the engi and atmos hardsuits) for less than the prototypes would be good too.

Re: HELP: Adding reward mechanics to engineering

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:35 am
by Tokiko2
I think that it would be nice to order building materials like metal, plasteel, titanium and glass. Just as an alternative to cargo/minining because they don't always deliver when you need it.

Re: HELP: Adding reward mechanics to engineering

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:20 am
by Nabski
You said something about items coming in batches so it's not a race to the vendor. Could it be done similar to a mining vendor where you insert your ID/PDA to redeem points off it? That might help move it away from "it's cargo but we get points differently".


Items are given a cost, and an unlock cost. CE/someone picks what is the next unlock, then once that point threshold has been reached anyone can redeem their personal points for it. If you want a construction bomb, then save up a bunch for it. If you want all the power tools then you could get that instead. Maybe some option to pool points together for bigger purchases (Nuke OPs are coming we want to get a single thing of X to defend the bridge with everyone pool your points!)