Random searches and Code Blue

Should we have random searches on code blue?

Abstain
1
5%
Yes
7
33%
No
11
52%
Other
2
10%
 
Total votes: 21

User avatar
leibniz
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 6:21 pm
Byond Username: Leibniz
Location: Seeking help

Random searches and Code Blue

Post by leibniz » #139629

Bottom post of the previous page:

We had a thing about disallowing random searches during Code Blue. here
It wasn't added to the rules page though. After talking to the admins I learned that apparently enforcing this fell out of fashion. It is relevant only when sec searches people at roundstart/HoP line randomly.

This is the current code blue text:
"Attention! Security level elevated to blue:
The station has received reliable information about possible hostile activity on the station. Security staff may have weapons visible. Searches are permitted only with probable cause."


According to the headmins this is just IC and has no importance.

Anyway, for example one round I went AFK in a dorm room, by the time I came back the HoS hacked his way in and wanted to search me, I told him I don't consent to searches, then he stunned me and did it anyway. (According to him being alone in a dorm room is suspicious)
I dont really think this is the quality of sec play we should be striving for.

another related discussion: link

(please note that the poll is only about RANDOM searches, being searched for suspicious behaviour/investigations is ok)
Founder and only member of the "Whitelist Nukeops" movement
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ShadowDimentio
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
Byond Username: David273

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by ShadowDimentio » #139762

STORY TIME

Once upon a time I was traitor scientist. Me being the cool guy I am, and what with telescience being a newly implemented feature, I wanted to try my hand and telebombing the station. So, I made myself some bombs, stuffed them in my bag and got to work. Things were going great, and eventually the RD came in to check how I was doing, and murdered me with an esword.

Eventually, my body got found and he was thrown in perma. I got cloned and went back to telesci, and the warden and some lawyer were there for some reason. I asked them to leave, and the warden tazes me and goes through my shit, finding the bombs, and threw me in perma, all with no evidence to my guilt, only a random search.

Needless to say, I was assblasted to the MAX. Yelled at the admins that this was fucking bullshit and how he had no reason to search me. They gave him the all-clear and told me shit happens.

This is why I WANT THIS FUCKING RANDOM SEARCH BULLSHIT TO NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. NOBODY should have their traitor round nuked because some mumblefuck guard decided to search you for no reason and finds traitor shit. NOBODY.
Spoiler:
"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
-Anonmare

"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
-Armhulenn

">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
-Bluespace

">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
-Anonmare

"Then why did you get that boob job?"
-DrPillzRedux

"You take that back you colonial mongrel"
-Docprofsmith

"I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds."
-Malkraz
Zilenan91
Confined to the shed
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:09 pm
Byond Username: Zilenan91

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by Zilenan91 » #139763

That sounds like a dickish thing for the Warden to do. At most he should've just confiscated them, not murder you because you worked in toxins and of course had bomb parts on you.
Spoiler:
Zilenan91 wrote:
Just replace both their arms with chainsaws.

HAVE FUN ESCAPING NOW WITH NO ARMS
User avatar
ShadowDimentio
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
Byond Username: David273

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by ShadowDimentio » #139764

I had like six fully assembled bombs in my bag, but that's not the point. The point is, I hadn't done anything to out myself up to that point. He randomly searched me and found the bombs by mere chance, which is BULLSHIT.
Spoiler:
"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
-Anonmare

"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
-Armhulenn

">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
-Bluespace

">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
-Anonmare

"Then why did you get that boob job?"
-DrPillzRedux

"You take that back you colonial mongrel"
-Docprofsmith

"I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds."
-Malkraz
Zilenan91
Confined to the shed
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:09 pm
Byond Username: Zilenan91

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by Zilenan91 » #139765

We're getting a bit off-topic, but I don't think the issue isn't that he randomly searched you, but that he perma'd you for having them. I just don't understand why people want to take others out of the round forever
Spoiler:
Zilenan91 wrote:
Just replace both their arms with chainsaws.

HAVE FUN ESCAPING NOW WITH NO ARMS
User avatar
ShadowDimentio
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
Byond Username: David273

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by ShadowDimentio » #139766

>Talking about how random searches are bullshit in the random search thread
>Off topic

Are you high
Spoiler:
"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
-Anonmare

"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
-Armhulenn

">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
-Bluespace

">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
-Anonmare

"Then why did you get that boob job?"
-DrPillzRedux

"You take that back you colonial mongrel"
-Docprofsmith

"I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds."
-Malkraz
Zilenan91
Confined to the shed
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:09 pm
Byond Username: Zilenan91

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by Zilenan91 » #139767

yes
Spoiler:
Zilenan91 wrote:
Just replace both their arms with chainsaws.

HAVE FUN ESCAPING NOW WITH NO ARMS
Malkevin

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by Malkevin » #139774

Implying that the scientist that was working toxins is now working telesci at a time where using telescience to bomb the station was the meme of the week, isn't suspect...

You know, you don't HAVE to carry your incriminating evidence on you at all times. Hell, don't traitors get an undertile storage item now?
Sure you run the risk of some ass klewn stealing your bombs for fun but thats a risk you have to take as an alternative to getting caught red handed doing some traitor shit.
Kor wrote:>using the privacy lock on a private room is suspicious
Suspicion of dereliction of duty.

How dare that assistant slack off whilst theres work to be done, gotta get that slave back out there.
rdght91
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:36 am
Byond Username: Roadhog1

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by rdght91 » #139777

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
rdght91 wrote:FYI in the US "Probable Cause" has a very clear legal meaning, which means you have credible, specific articulable reason this person could have committed a specific crime. Simply being suspicious is not probable cause. Reasonable Suspicion is a lesser standard for a credible articulable reason a person may be doing anything illegal. Searching someone for being a locked dorm room alone would not meet either, unless maybe if you found the most right-wing judge in the heart of Texas maaaaaaybe it'd meet the Suspicion standard.
Neither am I from the US nor is the game set in the US. I don't see how this is supposed to be both known and applicable.

And Jesus, this incident, for one, has nothing to do with powergaming, and for two, is a complete and total nonissue. Good god.
If you live in a country with common law (which is likely since you speak English) you do deal with probable cause.

LAW BOMB BITCHES
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS4qyM8TEqg
Cheimon
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 6:53 pm
Byond Username: Cheimon

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by Cheimon » #139779

So security arrives to science. They find out the RD has killed someone with an esword. Let's assume the RD doesn't tell them the truth. Why would he? They book him, seems sensible whatever he claims.

But they don't know that you weren't involved in the matter. How uncommon is it for someone to be disarmed and killed with their own weapon? A paranoid security force could certainly interview the victim, at least.

The warden and the lawyer (whatever, neither are supposed to be beat cops but they're there today) are investigating the crime scene. Sensible. They might find more bodies, or be waiting for the detective to turn up and scan something, or whatever.

Now, picture this: some scientist shows up. Maybe they know he was the murder victim, maybe they don't. Maybe he's got blood all over him, maybe not. Maybe the RD has been spouting lies about a traitor in science that he got the gear from, or had to exchange documents with, maybe not. Whatever the case, he's telling them to get out. Didn't he know there was a murder here? At the very least, they're suspicious. And at that point, a search is entirely reasonable. He's a scientist: for all they know, he has a backpack full of bombs. No sense in asking first: that's asking to die with a lot of criminals on this station.

Search is fine here. Perma for having bombs, not so much. You were, after all, in the department you made them. Although telling security to leave the room, with bombs in your pack? Implication is you were going to teleport them. What the hell does all of this mean? It means the search, however random it seemed to you, might well not have seemed as random to them. Punishment aside, a ban on random searches wouldn't have stopped most officers from searching you.
Helios wrote:What about using someone's department as a justification? I.E. one scientist is a confirmed cultist, so you search the rest.
You can take this into an extreme in the OP's case, and say that because an assistant broke into a department that day, they are searching them because they're also an assistant
Seems entirely legitimate to me. Hell, it's legitimised by something as simple as a [departmental jumpsuit] appearing on an emagged door.

Frankly once you've got to the point there's an active cult/gang/rev any kind of group antagonist you ought to be raiding, searching, and implanting departments as a whole anyway. It's invasive, it's unpleasant, but it's also the best way to not get killed by an escalating threat.
If you live in a country with common law (which is likely since you speak English) you do deal with probable cause.
That doesn't mean it's called that, and it doesn't mean the concept has the same weight. In the US, that is a constitutional right, which is a big deal. You need probable cause for a warrant, a personal search, a property search.

In the UK, the corresponding term for what's called 'stop and search' is "reasonable grounds": suspicion of drugs, weapons, tools, or stolen goods. The UK does not have a written constitution, and you don't need "reasonable grounds" if it's been approved by a senior officer. Senior officers might approve for a bunch of reasons, like you being in a specific area, or them being worried violence might happen. But the point is they aren't the same things, necessarily, as in the US. And you can't rely on it being upheld to the same degree. A bit like freedom of speech in that way. Heavily enforced in the US, a bit more loosey-goosey in the Old World.
Malkevin

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by Malkevin » #139784

UK has a constitution, the difference is just that its written over several documents instead of one condensed document and then battering about pretending its an original idea.

Anyway, the argument "Well this is how things are today in THESE specific countries so thats how things should be in game too!" is a stupid ignorant narrow minded idiotic statement that belongs over in old Bay station.
Remember its a setting where one company has grown so much it owns a grand majority of space, its become its own country - who's to say you have rights anymore and the law enforcement isn't quick on the draw because if they aren't they're dead ala Brazilian cops, or aren't running things like Saddam's republican guard - dragging any dissenters into a dark room to make them disappear.
Cheimon
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 6:53 pm
Byond Username: Cheimon

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by Cheimon » #139794

Yeah, but saying the UK has a constitution over several documents belies the vast gulf between that and the US system. In the US, changing the constitution is a huge deal, culturally as well as legally. You have to have approval from a bunch of states, you need big majorities, and large chunks of it seem quasi-sacred.

In the UK, the constitution is...well, it's precedents and expectations. Things like Bagehot. But there's nothing stopping one parliament from changing whatever they want. The process is not especially long or drawn out, there doesn't have to be a public consultation, and you only need a straightforward simple majority.

Like I said, there's also a big culture gap. In the US, people appear to revere the constitution. It's a key document, it's referenced by everyday people, it's important and relevant to them. In the UK, it's mostly about the setup of legal institutions and the average citizen is not going to say something is unconstitutional, or even pretend to know, on anything but a very few issues.

Anyway, I agree that this is irrelevant to the game. I'm just saying that if people are going "we need probable cause" then they need to be aware that they're not necessarily agreeing on the same thing. There needs to be a game specific definition of it. When you don't get this, you get stuck with the same problems as the Paladin and Robocop lawsets: players familiar with their references made them, but players unfamiliar with the reference pick it up and don't understand it. What's the public trust? What's evil? It says lawful good in these rules, what does that entail? Essentially, pedantry, but pedantry with a similar point to yours: don't base it on real law with the assumption that everyone will agree on what that law says.
onleavedontatme
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
Byond Username: KorPhaeron

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by onleavedontatme » #139798

>who's to say you have rights anymore

The admins? Like we have been saying for all of /tg/station history?

All of this nonsense about lore and real constitutions misses the point that the game doesn't function if security just strip searches+implants everyone for no reason.
User avatar
ShadowDimentio
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
Byond Username: David273

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by ShadowDimentio » #139800

Kor wrote:All of this nonsense about lore and real constitutions misses the point that the game doesn't function if security just strip searches+implants everyone for no reason.
Spoiler:
"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
-Anonmare

"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
-Armhulenn

">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
-Bluespace

">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
-Anonmare

"Then why did you get that boob job?"
-DrPillzRedux

"You take that back you colonial mongrel"
-Docprofsmith

"I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds."
-Malkraz
Lo6a4evskiy
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:40 pm
Byond Username: Lo6a4evskiy

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by Lo6a4evskiy » #139803

Actually, let's talk about the situation where the victim of search is actually an antagonist that was caught with syndicate items. And the main question is, can you adminhelp a security officer for a random search without a reason where you got caught as an antagonist or not?
rdght91
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:36 am
Byond Username: Roadhog1

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by rdght91 » #139808

I'm saying the standard of Probable Cause in US/UK common law is simple, works in real life, would probably work aboard SS13 as the OOC standard to search/arrest a crewmember

"Apparent facts discovered through logical inquiry that would lead a reasonably intelligent and prudent person to believe that an accused person has committed a crime" aka

"Simple facts using your goddamn brain that a normal, overly cautious but not spastically paranoid person would think that this guy did a specific thing that is bad."
User avatar
DemonFiren
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
Byond Username: DemonFiren

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by DemonFiren » #139815

Thing is, everyone in spessmens is spastically paranoid.
Image
Image
Image
ImageImageImageImageImage

non-lizard things:
Spoiler:
Image
User avatar
bandit
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:35 pm
Byond Username: Bgobandit

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by bandit » #139820

rdght91 wrote:I'm saying the standard of Probable Cause in US/UK common law is simple, works in real life, would probably work aboard SS13 as the OOC standard to search/arrest a crewmember

"Apparent facts discovered through logical inquiry that would lead a reasonably intelligent and prudent person to believe that an accused person has committed a crime" aka

"Simple facts using your goddamn brain that a normal, overly cautious but not spastically paranoid person would think that this guy did a specific thing that is bad."
and this is impossible to prove, which is why I said it should be reasonable suspicion:

"Reasonable suspicion is a standard established by the Supreme Court in a 1968 case in which it ruled that police officers should be allowed to stop and briefly detain a person if, based upon the officer’s training and experience, there is reason to believe that the individual is engaging in criminal activity."

So for instance, the dorm example fails probable cause. But it passes reasonable suspicion. And neither are "random searches".
"I don't see any difference between ERP and rape." -- erro

admin feedback pls
Incomptinence
Joined: Fri May 02, 2014 3:01 am
Byond Username: Incomptinence

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by Incomptinence » #139822

Bring back the random search clause. Even though it isn't from SOS directly is is surely a slow poison derived from their sec bash legacy.

Can any admin remember even acting on this recently? "Probable cause" is pretty nebulous and just a ban request hissy fit waiting to happen
LiamLime
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:59 pm
Byond Username: LiamLime

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by LiamLime » #139845

How does one even perform a random search on SS13 anyway? The searched person can run away before the officer even informs them that they are being searched.
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.
User avatar
imblyings
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:42 pm
Byond Username: Ausops
Location: >using suit sensors

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by imblyings » #139851

It's hard to know what is a random search apart from blatant roundstart/hop line stereotype searches.

Constantly doing it for no reason may lead to you being adminhelped, which may lead to admins asking you about it, which may lead to notes being placed on your account and you being warned, and if it constantly happens, rule 0/1 gets invoked and action is taken. While I fully appreciate the odds stacked against security, the administration and by extension the playerbase, reserves the right to cut off people who are detrimental to the server due to their actions.

>liamlime

shoot first ask later
The patched, dusty, trimmed, feathered mantle of evil +13.
User avatar
Screemonster
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:23 pm
Byond Username: Scree

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by Screemonster » #139859

Zilenan91 wrote:It's relevant because the only reason someone is gonna be in the dorms is to ERP or doing illegal things.
or

you know

going AFK and not wanting someone to rob them of all their shit while they're AFK
User avatar
M0nsoon
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:38 am
Byond Username: ShadowHunterOO

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by M0nsoon » #139864

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Actually, let's talk about the situation where the victim of search is actually an antagonist that was caught with syndicate items. And the main question is, can you adminhelp a security officer for a random search without a reason where you got caught as an antagonist or not?
I've seen and had plenty of antag rounds ruined by "le randumb search in da bar" and shit like that, I would probably bwoink an officer if they did that, antag validness or not, and hopefully others would too.
User avatar
CPTANT
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
Byond Username: CPTANT

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by CPTANT » #139895

ShadowDimentio wrote:STORY TIME

Once upon a time I was traitor scientist. Me being the cool guy I am, and what with telescience being a newly implemented feature, I wanted to try my hand and telebombing the station. So, I made myself some bombs, stuffed them in my bag and got to work. Things were going great, and eventually the RD came in to check how I was doing, and murdered me with an esword.

Eventually, my body got found and he was thrown in perma. I got cloned and went back to telesci, and the warden and some lawyer were there for some reason. I asked them to leave, and the warden tazes me and goes through my shit, finding the bombs, and threw me in perma, all with no evidence to my guilt, only a random search.

Needless to say, I was assblasted to the MAX. Yelled at the admins that this was fucking bullshit and how he had no reason to search me. They gave him the all-clear and told me shit happens.

This is why I WANT THIS FUCKING RANDOM SEARCH BULLSHIT TO NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. NOBODY should have their traitor round nuked because some mumblefuck guard decided to search you for no reason and finds traitor shit. NOBODY.
This is exactly the problem right here, you ASSUME they had no reason to search you.

Your story has a shitload of ways security may have had that made you suspicious. The RD could have ratted you out. They might have seen all the missing bombs and were looking for them. The AI might have seen you do stuff. Other scientists may have been acting suspicious. The telesci room might have been a crime scene etc etc.

You not knowing why security finds you suspicious does not mean it was a random search.

Having to explain the reason OOC why someone is suspicous every time because scrubs can't grasp the concept that security sometimes has other information than them is extremely shit.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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NikNakFlak
In-Game Admin
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:08 pm
Byond Username: NikNakflak

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by NikNakFlak » #139907

Not to mention, people are saying being tossed into perma for that is bad, but just think if he actually did his traitor shit and got away with it, that'd be six max caps in the station.
Adminhelp: "Why the fuck did security kill me/perma me?"
Response: "Well you are a traitor and they caught you with the stuff"
Adminhelp: "Yea but it's just traitor stuff, they didn't know that I actually DID anything with the stuff"
Response: "Didn't you kill a guy who then got cloned...? Either way, that argument is bad"

I actually see it all the time.
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ShadowDimentio
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
Byond Username: David273

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by ShadowDimentio » #139919

Nice job fucking up a story posted one spot above you NikNak

I give your reading comprehension skills a rating of 9/11

/I/ was the one that got killed and then cloned. And my argument to the admin wasn't "Lol he didn't know I was going to do anything with the 6 maxcap bombs" it was "He searched me for no fucking reason and found the bombs that's super bullshit".

And I love how several people are trying to analyze my story on a microscopic level to try and excuse the warden searching me, and are completely ignoring major parts of the story in doing so, or more importantly, the basic unlikelihood that someone ratted on me/saw me making bombs/whatever and I somehow miraculously missed them doing that.

You guys are the reason why security is shit.
Spoiler:
"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
-Anonmare

"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
-Armhulenn

">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
-Bluespace

">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
-Anonmare

"Then why did you get that boob job?"
-DrPillzRedux

"You take that back you colonial mongrel"
-Docprofsmith

"I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds."
-Malkraz
Malkevin

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by Malkevin » #139925

You know that the wardens job is largely to sit on his virtual arse right?
And spy on departments with the camera console right?
And that toxins is one of the departments most likely to be spied on right?
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Pascal123
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:05 am
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Location: My house.

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by Pascal123 » #139929

Malkevin wrote:You know that the wardens job is largely to sit on his virtual arse right?
And spy on departments with the camera console right?
And that toxins is one of the departments most likely to be spied on right?
This.

But in all honesty, how is it hard to believe that security might check tele-science when somebody's bombing.
That's like returning to the scene of the crime.
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ShadowDimentio
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
Byond Username: David273

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by ShadowDimentio » #139931

Sure, that makes sense.

Too bad that's not how the story went.

Again: I hadn't done ANYTHING suspicious. I made some bombs, went to telesci, got murdered, cloned, then got arrested. That's IT.
Spoiler:
"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
-Anonmare

"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
-Armhulenn

">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
-Bluespace

">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
-Anonmare

"Then why did you get that boob job?"
-DrPillzRedux

"You take that back you colonial mongrel"
-Docprofsmith

"I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds."
-Malkraz
Cheimon
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 6:53 pm
Byond Username: Cheimon

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by Cheimon » #139948

> shows up to a crime scene

> tells sec to get out

> this search is outrageous!
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NikNakFlak
In-Game Admin
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:08 pm
Byond Username: NikNakflak

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by NikNakFlak » #139949

ShadowDimentio wrote:Nice job fucking up a story posted one spot above you NikNak

I give your reading comprehension skills a rating of 9/11

/I/ was the one that got killed and then cloned. And my argument to the admin wasn't "Lol he didn't know I was going to do anything with the 6 maxcap bombs" it was "He searched me for no fucking reason and found the bombs that's super bullshit".

And I love how several people are trying to analyze my story on a microscopic level to try and excuse the warden searching me, and are completely ignoring major parts of the story in doing so, or more importantly, the basic unlikelihood that someone ratted on me/saw me making bombs/whatever and I somehow miraculously missed them doing that.

You guys are the reason why security is shit.

Are you retarded?
I was talking about a separate incident with a separate player that happened yesterday. Not you
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Steelpoint
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Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:37 pm
Byond Username: Steelpoint
Github Username: Steelpoint
Location: The Armoury

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by Steelpoint » #139953

Just being in Toxins is enough to get you on every shit list Security has.

If there is a competent Security team in a round, and more so a proactive Warden/HoS/Sci Officer, then walking into Toxins is going to paint a massive target on your head for the game.
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iamgoofball
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Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:50 pm
Byond Username: Iamgoofball
Github Username: Iamgoofball

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by iamgoofball » #139976

ShadowDimentio wrote:Sure, that makes sense.

Too bad that's not how the story went.

Again: I hadn't done ANYTHING suspicious. I made some bombs, went to telesci, got murdered, cloned, then got arrested. That's IT.
If I was the warden, and I saw a scientist go from Toxins to Telesci, I would totally be suspicious as fuck. I think ANYONE would be suspicious as fuck.
Tornadium
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 11:55 am
Byond Username: Tornadium

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by Tornadium » #140003

"I couldn't meme bomb the station for the 200th time in a row, Pls ban".

God you're a moron.

There is no such fucking thing as a random search, none that you can actually prove was random. Unless we transition to RP Heavy that is the way this is always going to be because you can make up any bullshit justification you want to search people as security and there is not a single thing anyone can say to disprove you unless you record every single round as evidence or the admin is literally watching just the security officer for the entire round.

This thread is retarded, people will lie to random search and will continue to do so. You can't really start banning or applying notes for fucking searching people either. It's not being a dick if you actually did have probable cause to search but again everyone lies.

By all means headmin if you want to go ahead and start wrecking security by banning most of its players feel free.
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imblyings
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:42 pm
Byond Username: Ausops
Location: >using suit sensors

Re: Random searches and Code Blue

Post by imblyings » #140009

>we'll just lie if you question us
>you can't do your job of keeping this server fun so don't try

I know just the thing
The patched, dusty, trimmed, feathered mantle of evil +13.
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