[Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fishing

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[Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fishing

Postby D&B » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:10 pm #218172

Byond account and character name: Repukan - Donatello Versus
Admin: Jud1c470r - Dorsidwarf
Time incident occured: 10/12/2016 between the times of 1PM - 3PM Eastern Time

Detailed summary: Round started as HoS, going to skip the roll call and gear up.

We get reports of a person bombing medbay, they are summarily arrested and put in perma due to suspecting they are a traitor. While walking towards the lounge area next to my office, I see crewmember Kyo Blessig having hacked their way in. They are tased, shot enough to suffer from speed decay, and thrown in perma for Major B&E and Possesion of illegal weapons (cute pair of cable restraints.)

Ai informs security that Luke Gadow has a stunprod, and locks him in so security can capture him. My officers do so, but he escapes from them and disposals himself. I intercept him in cargo, and summarily throw him in perma as well due to proving he can escape normal cells with ease. In the case of charges, he was charged with Resisting arrest, Possesion of illegal weapons, Sparking a Manhunt, and Escape from Brig.

Everything fine to this point, until everything went to shit.

An engineer comes by and reports there's a hull breach in perma, to which I check the cameras to find metal foam, a broken window, and an atmos tech in full hardsuit. Due to the fact that no engineer had announced the intention to repair the perma area before this, and that they were in a compromising position, they were immediately gunned down due to suspicions of breaking out the prisoners. Later attempts at cloning proved impossible due to departure of soul.

At this point Gadow hadn't entered perma yet, and was thus put in a cell, if I can recall correctly. We had now a manhunt for Akarami and Kyo sparked by their escape. Captain, being present in the brig for god knows what reason, was called to a meeting and allowed the use of lethals to put down the escaped prisoners. Any and all use of lethals from this point on has been acknowledged as being approved by the captain, and I, as HoS, following the chain of command.

We get Akanami back, with two spears on her person. As she is being executed, a clown drags her away from security and attempts to escape with her. Aiding and Abetting carries the same sentence as the criminal that was aided to escape, and thus both were put down. Kyo turns themselves in, and they are given the death treatment as well.

At this point I get a *bwoink* from Jud1c470r in which any semblance of faux-professionalism admins at least are supported to have is thrown out the window. Extremely vindictive and accusatory, they get irate in ahelps and end up leaving (ragequitting?) due to the way things have taken their course. They made no effort in investigating, log checking, or doing anything but senselessly accuse me of being Hitler or something akin.

Dorsidwarf ends up taking over and I get branded. Pictures attached.

As the round proceeds, I am obligated, due to a number of reasons I will now list, to cremate the bodies of Kyo, Akanami, and the clown:

1. Major Law Breaking
2. If they become borgs, they will try to get back at security. This is non-disputable, it's happened before and I won't ruin the round for my officers just because someone feels like being a shit with no care for consequences.
3. Gadow was still free and would attempt to clone.

Kyo and the Clown DO end up cloned, and they get summarily executed and cremated again.

Later on Dorsidwarf made a NT announcement that basically incited a manhunt on me. Crew swarmed the bridge looking for me, and due to the fact that this could escalate on the other heads, I inform the captain my decision to call the shuttle. He agrees, and I and the CMO swipe for red. At this time I get bwoinked by Dorsidwarf, but I ask for a minute due to a rebel HoP recalling and not following chain of command. I understand it is wrong to make you wait, but mate, you threw a canister of fuel to a campfire.

As the shuttle is called and an engineer is put down by the captain (he shot first.) and I for breaking into his quarters, I speak with Dorsidwarf who - NOW, when the MUTINY is starting to BREAK at its SEAMS, after branding me a DICK FOR A GOOD 40 MINUTES AND WHO CAN'T CENTER TEXT AT LEAST, and SENDING A NT ANNOUNCEMENT THAT IS BASICALLY A JUSTIFIED HEY OPEN SEASON ON THIS GUY - decides to investigate what happened. Even after I explained why everything took place, he offers to ban me from HoS due to earlier notes.

However, I explain that this is a shit reason for a ban. My notes for HoS are for immediately using lethals on a clown that broke into my office (you can't be intent pushed into opening doors, Mimic, I checked.) And authorizing a purge of non implanted people in the shuttle as Captain (Or at least, I believe those to be the notes he was looking at.)

Just because some people decide to escalate their encounters with security by doing shit that they could have NOT done in the first place, and doing their time, all of this could have been avoided. Why am I lightly threatened with a ban when I have taken steps BEFORE jumping to the use of lethals? What am I supposed to do, just let people break their way into the brig and let the anarchism run rampant in the station?
Attachments
tgStation Bagil [ENGLISH] [100% LAGFREE] Rogue Relay Twelve 2016-10-12 141029.png
:^)
tgStation Bagil [ENGLISH] [100% LAGFREE] Rogue Relay Twelve 2016-10-12 135105.png
Impressive Girth
tgStation Bagil [ENGLISH] [100% LAGFREE] Rogue Relay Twelve 2016-10-12 135827.png
First one



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Re: [Jud1c470r] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fishing

Postby onleavedontatme » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:29 pm #218185

[17:37:08]ADMIN: PM: Dorsidwarf/(Insect-Feeder)->Repukan/(Donatello Versus): Judicator had to leave, and has handed the matter to me. I will adjudicate (haha) in a manner both fair and indicative of the lack of time I have for escalation-related shit.

>I don't wanna investigate escalation so have some meme text, which doesn't actually help any victims and kills the immersion of anyone else still playing but I sure do have fun as an admin!

>metafriends breaking people out of jail

>yack finding an excuse to welderbomb a crowd in "defense"

>stealing sec prisoners and ahelping when sec stomps on you

>captain who barely speaks english authorizing lethal force and then telling admins he didn't

>permaing someone for breaking into the sec lobby

>admins making up their minds before even PMing the guy

[17:28:02]ADMIN: PM: Jud1c470r/(Amadeus Rockme)->Repukan/(Donatello Versus): You know usually executions require an order from the captain

>Jud thinking a rule removed back when Sticky was headmin still applies

[18:34:54]ADMIN: PM: Dorsidwarf/(Insect-Feeder)->Repukan/(Donatello Versus): So: 1 person permad for welderbombing someone. 1 person permad for having a stunprod and contraband of some sort (elaborate?) One person permad for having a stunprod for self-defense after being swirlied a tonne.

>You shoulda known the prod was in self defense for something unrelated after he'd broken out of jail several times

[18:38:03]ADMIN: PM: Dorsidwarf/(Insect-Feeder)->Repukan/(Donatello Versus): Now, from all that, I think the only unreasonable shit is executing Kyo three times, especially after a sec officer specifically cloned them and they surrendered to them, as well as executing and incinerating the clown for defending someone who was helping them (The welderbomb was in the clown's defense against a lyncher)

>You shoulda known the clown was attacking security because the welderbomber was saving the clown

>I'm going to end up looking like a retard for defending a player that all of basil hates



I hate pretty much everything about this thread

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Re: [Jud1c470r] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fishing

Postby D&B » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:35 pm #218188

Kor wrote:I hate pretty much everything about this thread


Not my fault the admin team decides to act like petulant children and people can't fathom the idea of doing the time for making the crime.

Another thing - Which I informed Dorsidwarf of - An engineer had made false walls in the cells that are public. Incarcerating them in there was not possible without another attempt at a break out.

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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby Saegrimr » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:45 pm #218189

>yack finding an excuse to welderbomb a crowd in "defense"

Jud why the fuck did you pass up an opportunity to permaban Yack?
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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby Okand37 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:17 pm #218193

While I don't agree that throwing someone into perma for trying to break into an area is necessary (although it is fine by standards), and generally I encourage trying to keep people into the round instead of permanently removing them (cremating), by what I've read in the forum... It really seems like a lot of this was IC escalation. Generally in your listed 1-2-3 reasons, I'd try to abstain from cremating opposed to borging someone because you think they'll just try to harm security in the future, as if they do that isn't on you-but on them.

I don't really care how much someone is acting silly or you dislike them, I don't think maptexting 'HUGE DICK' over them is immersive, helpful, nice or really mature in any way.

There's nothing awfully wrong with having an admin wait a moment for you to reply, that's why we often open with an introduction opposed to accusation.
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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby Docprofsmith » Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:13 pm #218202

Saegrimr wrote:>yack finding an excuse to welderbomb a crowd in "defense"

Jud why the fuck did you pass up an opportunity to permaban Yack?


I had to leave. I also had nothing to do with the maptext.
JUDICATOR REDEMPTION ARC

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Re: [Jud1c470r] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fishing

Postby iamgoofball » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:01 pm #218204

Kor wrote:
[18:34:54]ADMIN: PM: Dorsidwarf/(Insect-Feeder)->Repukan/(Donatello Versus): So: 1 person permad for welderbombing someone. 1 person permad for having a stunprod and contraband of some sort (elaborate?) One person permad for having a stunprod for self-defense after being swirlied a tonne.

>You shoulda known the prod was in self defense for something unrelated after he'd broken out of jail several times

SALLY DIDN'T LOOK IN ANNE'S BOX

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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby onleavedontatme » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:08 pm #218207

Docprofsmith wrote:
I had to leave.


40 minutes after the welderbomb happened, and 11 after you'd started interrogating the HoS when Yack told you that they'd welderbombed when ahelping. But yeah, Jud was gone by the time the HUGE DICK nonsense started.

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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:17 pm #218211

While I find that this entire ban appeal has restated the situation in order to cast the best light possible on you, and the worst possible light on the administration team, I have no hard-felt objections to unbanning you.
Like I said repeatedly to you during our conversations, I think your high-agression high-lethality playstyle as a HoS combined with the fact that your notes have more warnings about over-escalating than a Pimp My Escalator convention is likely to end poorly.

The "Huge dick" nonsense was excessive, but I object to the idea that I "Made you valid and incited a mutiny". The only "munity" I saw signs of was the HoP trying to recall the shuttle because he felt your reasons were spurious and the crew was largely against it, which you responded with quite understandably by arresting him because he wouldn't listen to the captain. Also you misread the intent statement while talking about the permanent brig-count, I wanted to get it straight because I was having trouble keeping track of which shitters were being brigged for what reasons.
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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby iamgoofball » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:54 pm #218223

How is painting a big target on someone's head okay just because the target doesn't say VALID

Of course people are going to question decisions when the admins put HUGE DICK in big red letters on the person. Stop claiming it wasn't your fault when your actions influenced others. Did you really think that you could get away with "I put this really big publicly visible thing on this person insulting them NOT MY FAULT PEOPLE TRIED TO FUCK WITH HIM"

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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby Jacough » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:05 pm #218232

While fairly harsh, I think the only punishment D&B went too far with was executing the guy who turned himself in. The guy had already surrendered. Considering he was actually being cooperative, killing and cremating his corpse is pretty excessive. Borging him or setting him up with a legal chemical implant probably would have been more appropriate.

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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:35 pm #218242

iamgoofball wrote:How is painting a big target on someone's head okay just because the target doesn't say VALID

Of course people are going to question decisions when the admins put HUGE DICK in big red letters on the person. Stop claiming it wasn't your fault when your actions influenced others. Did you really think that you could get away with "I put this really big publicly visible thing on this person insulting them NOT MY FAULT PEOPLE TRIED TO FUCK WITH HIM"


It's almost like he was making very poor decisions and the crew didnt like it.

From what I saw, he got more dick jokes than mutineers, anyway.
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Still, my support will always go towards the rightful Lord of Yurop, God-Emperor Donald Trump the Trumpst. Trumpingrad for life. He'll make an indiscriminate number of countries great again.


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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby iamgoofball » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:41 pm #218246

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:How is painting a big target on someone's head okay just because the target doesn't say VALID

Of course people are going to question decisions when the admins put HUGE DICK in big red letters on the person. Stop claiming it wasn't your fault when your actions influenced others. Did you really think that you could get away with "I put this really big publicly visible thing on this person insulting them NOT MY FAULT PEOPLE TRIED TO FUCK WITH HIM"


It's almost like he was making very poor decisions and the crew didnt like it.

From what I saw, he got more dick jokes than mutineers, anyway.

You just completely ignored what I said and tried to redirect it to "well the crew was making dick jokes". Come on. Be adult.

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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby Cobby » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:49 pm #218249

In all honesty, I think the idea of trying to keep people in the round, and I guess by extension punishing someone for perma-removing people from the round, is silly. If you want to be a part of the round, you shouldn't do anything that would make people want to remove you from the round to begin with unless you are willing [preferably without calling the admins when you inevitably get stomped] to lose your round [which may last for 2 more hours].

Personally, If I played basil frequently, I'd probably be more passive knowing my actions could 1)cause me to not be back into the game for another hour or so unless I choose to ghost-role or 2) be misinterpreted by security, causing me to not be back into the game for another hour or so unless I choose to ghost-role.

This may be better as a separate thread, but I just don't like how people act shit then [successfully] play administrators because we're trying to ensure everyone is enjoying their time even if they're purposefully ruining other's.
Last edited by Cobby on Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby onleavedontatme » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:52 pm #218251

Okand37 wrote:generally I encourage trying to keep people into the round instead of permanently removing them (cremating).


This may be better as a separate thread, but I just don't like how people act shit then [successfully] play administrators because we're trying to ensure everyone is enjoying their time even if they're purposefully ruining other's.


If someone is an antagonist, I'll often go out of my way to keep them alive or in the round when I catch them because they're just playing their part in the game, no hard feelings.

Greytiding is something you shouldn't have to play nice with though.

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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby D&B » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:27 pm #218275

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:While I find that this entire ban appeal has restated the situation in order to cast the best light possible on you, and the worst possible light on the administration team, I have no hard-felt objections to unbanning you.
Like I said repeatedly to you during our conversations, I think your high-agression high-lethality playstyle as a HoS combined with the fact that your notes have more warnings about over-escalating than a Pimp My Escalator convention is likely to end poorly.

The "Huge dick" nonsense was excessive, but I object to the idea that I "Made you valid and incited a mutiny". The only "munity" I saw signs of was the HoP trying to recall the shuttle because he felt your reasons were spurious and the crew was largely against it, which you responded with quite understandably by arresting him because he wouldn't listen to the captain. Also you misread the intent statement while talking about the permanent brig-count, I wanted to get it straight because I was having trouble keeping track of which shitters were being brigged for what reasons.


I hold no beef towards you, you seemed more level headed than jud.

But come the fuck on. Soon as that by announcement went up, Art White wanted me arrested and people were starting a mutiny. Not to mention the weird ion laws that appeared with no ion announcement round end.

I play security as a reaction to other players actions. Anything I did in game that round was as a reaction to whatever the tiders did. Gadow boasting on tcomms he escaped brig? Time to unzip the baton and get him back in cargo. My officers couldn't keep him restrained? Time to send him to confinement for not doing what was gonna be, at most, 3 minutes for the prod. Even later on the round I found him with a prod and chose not to arrest him anymore since he seemed to be doing something else.

I like being efficient. I hate giving people second chances and have someone dying at their hands a few minutes later. If you're gonna tide, get good enough that sec can't catch you. Because else you're just being an active light threat to peace and a passive massive threat to the station.

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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby Shaps-cloud » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:27 pm #218277

Headmins are reaching a decision on this now, really really not impressed with how this was handled in the slightest, this kind of outright antagonism towards players is unprecedented. Berating a player for not knowing things they had no way of knowing flies right in the face of the nature of the game, and there are more questions to be raised about the nature of the "investigating" that happened
P.S. Shoot Dr. Allen on sight and dissolve his body in acid. Don't burn it.

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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:46 pm #218284

Shaps wrote:Headmins are reaching a decision on this now, really really not impressed with how this was handled in the slightest, this kind of outright antagonism towards players is unprecedented. Berating a player for not knowing things they had no way of knowing flies right in the face of the nature of the game, and there are more questions to be raised about the nature of the "investigating" that happened

I did not "Berate him for not knowing things they had no way of knowing", but thanks for taking Kor's out of context meme-arrow as an attack on the player involved. I am also -still- not entirely sure as to the order of things (When did person X have stunprod and was this known or was it found on unrelated search, etc) that occured during this round, due to multiple people perforiming crimes/being arrested/being executed/being cloned by other sec members/being cremated at different times in the round, let alone at the time of the investigation, and was attempting to clarify this.

The job-ban was also in respect that Repukan has, in the last two months, obtained nine notes, warnings, and bans for excessive escalation and murder, with particular notes about authority roles and that he "Needs to stop murdering people for stupid shit in authority roles". I really don't see why people are suggesting that the execution, repeatedly (Kyo was executed 4 times and died in space once before being cremated, and had surrendered to security and even been cloned by an officer) of people who had commited fairly minor crimes, such as interfering with arrest (clown)
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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby oranges » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:22 pm #218299

part of playing security is acknowledging that yes sometimes people you binned earlier will come back and try to get back at you.

if you can't handle that, why are you rolling security?

Also side note:

The job-ban was also in respect that Repukan has, in the last two months, obtained nine notes, warnings, and bans for excessive escalation and murder, with particular notes about authority roles and that he "Needs to stop murdering people for stupid shit in authority roles". I really don't see why people are suggesting that the execution, repeatedly (Kyo was executed 4 times and died in space once before being cremated, and had surrendered to security and even been cloned by an officer) of people who had commited fairly minor crimes, such as interfering with arrest (clown)


How do you collect that many notes in a short period and not get a jobban? Shouldn't they reach for a jobban before reaching for a proper ban?

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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby Okand37 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:34 pm #218303

oranges wrote:
How do you collect that many notes in a short period and not get a jobban? Shouldn't they reach for a jobban before reaching for a proper ban?

They got a job-ban resulting from this. Six days, or something of the sort if I am unmistaken.
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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby Wyzack » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:03 pm #218315

>Shitty player gets treated like shit

> Two good admins rip

I understand that something had to be done but jesus what a mess

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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby TechnoAlchemist » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:06 pm #218316

>Two good admins

Jud has a history of having poor judgement let's not delude ourselves.

Just because someone has a history doesn't mean they're game to fuck with to any extent. This was too far.

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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby Docprofsmith » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:11 pm #218317

TechnoAlchemist wrote:>Two good admins

Jud has a history of having poor judgement let's not delude ourselves.

Just because someone has a history doesn't mean they're game to fuck with to any extent. This was too far.


I literally was not involved in this decision. I spoke to Repukan, asked dorsi for his opinion, had to leave and handed it over to dorsi.

I have nothing to do with this ban or the maptext.

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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby D&B » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:19 pm #218319

Docprofsmith wrote:
TechnoAlchemist wrote:>Two good admins

Jud has a history of having poor judgement let's not delude ourselves.

Just because someone has a history doesn't mean they're game to fuck with to any extent. This was too far.


I literally was not involved in this decision. I spoke to Repukan, asked dorsi for his opinion, had to leave and handed it over to dorsi.

I have nothing to do with this ban or the maptext.


Grilling me over and over and ignoring what I told you, needing me to restate stuff that I told you 3 seconds ago while being vindictive as shut us anything but talking.

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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby Shaps-cloud » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:32 pm #218323

Headmins talked with Dorsi, to his credit he was somewhat more understanding at the end of the round and leveled with Rep moreso than he did for the rest of the round. That being said, cowboy antics like spamming HUGE DICK maptext, aggressive behavior towards players, and the lack of investigation until it was far too late won't be tolerated, and Dorsi has been spoken to about it. Jud's aggression in the beginning of the event here has been noted and we sat down and spoke to him about it as well, but in the context of the whole complaint, it's not as big of an issue. Hopefully this kind of behavior will not be an issue in the future, and we encourage players to contact headmins or file complaints in the event that something like this happens again
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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby Wyzack » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:35 pm #218324

>Cowboy antics

Could it be, the return of

JOHN WAYNE IN SPACE?!?

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Re: [Jud1c470r-Dorsidwarf] Donatello Versus - Admin-ban-fish

Postby oranges » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:39 pm #218326

Nobody will ever replace brotemis don't you ever dare.


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