[QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

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[QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby Sweets » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:13 am #248192

Byond account and character name: Reondin/ Esther Leonyaards
Banning admin:qbopper
Ban type (What are you banned from?):Both Servers
Ban reason and length: Banned for my "greytiding" leading to a validhunting cargo tech spacing himself when I was running from security for 720 minutes
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 9 PM CST 1/26/2017
Your side of the story: So I join a round on sybil as a shaft miner 2 minuets in and there is basically no security staff save one lone officer. Seeing as how we are on meta station, I decide to break into the armory to see if the Revolver or Deagle spawned to help fight megafauna/other Lavaland stuff. Unfortunately I was caught by pingsky and the lone officer and newly arrived warden tried to perma me. Cap however said brig was closed and all sentences instead of prison time were to be given in beatings. The officer put me in a cell for 10 minutes and took the warden to medbay as a traitor had attacked and critically injured the warden.

Seeing as how the best case scenario for me is being beaten to crit and (maybe) healed or permaed, I decide to break out and go to lavaland. Unfortunately the officer sees me and chases me all the way to cargo. I dodged all of the officers taser shots and his baton was out of juice from harmbatoning the traitor to death, so he went off to recharge them in the cargo bay sec outpost, while I decide to flee to lavaland.

UNFORTUNATELY a cargo tech by the name Easy Pete decides "Hey...I should try to help this sec officer do his job for him!" and comes onto the shuttle and starts spamming disarm on me. When the shuttle arrives at lavaland, he immediately sends it back and disarm spams me and drags me back into the cargo bay. I get up and push him down, then run back and send the shuttle back to lavaland. Instead of dropping the matter and letting sec handle it. The cargo tech decides to go somewhere where he is NOT AUTHORIZED TO BE JUST FOR THE SAKE OF VALID HUNTING,(unlike me going into armory to see if there is something that will help my job) and comes back into mining and tries to get back on the shuttle as it takes off. This of course, means he falls down ith the door open as the shuttle takes off and ends up spacing himself.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I was banned for someone deciding to do secs job for them and accidentally killing themselves for their own ineptitude. My only disarms on him were to run. Not deliberately try to space him or kill him. He was hoisted by his own validhunting petard. In addition, while "greytiding" into armory is I agree, a completely valid reason to be permaed or executed, I have a right to resist being locked in perma all round or killed with NONLEATHAL force. Which I didn't even use. This TRIAL admin from BAGIL is unaware of teh culture difference between the serves, where while on bagil greytiding into armory and running from sec as a non antag may be looked down on, IT LITERALLY HAPPENS EVERY ROUND ON SYBIL.



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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby oranges » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:20 am #248197

The servers have the same rules and ruleset

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby lollerderby » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:21 am #248198

you were banned because atlanta-ned or someone put you on the watchlist for garbage behavior

wouldn't normally be actionable but if you do a lot of shitty things people get upset
DEAD: Tim Ebow says, ">rylie talking shit and not actually doing anything again"
DEAD: Tim Ebow says, "What a twist"

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby Sweets » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:23 am #248199

oranges wrote:The servers have the same rules and ruleset

Oranges, you know that while taht may be true, Sybil is a lot more loose with escalation and greytide rules.

lollerderby wrote:you were banned because atlanta-ned or someone put you on the watchlist for garbage behavior

wouldn't normally be actionable but if you do a lot of shitty things people get upset


Hmm Watchlist for shitty behavior? That's funny. I still only have one public note. Adminbus back to secret notes again?

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby onleavedontatme » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:29 am #248202

Should have banned the dumb cargo tech for adminhelping after doing something stupid

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby Qbopper » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:31 am #248204

First off: I have connected to bagil once or twice in my life, and not even once while an admin. I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea that I'm a bagil main, nor where you get the idea of a "culture difference" - there is no difference between rules on the servers.

Secondly, you were not banned because your actions indirectly leading to someone's death is breaking the rules. You were banned because you have a known history for greytiding and general shitter behaviour, and the admins online with me agreed that an accidental murder was grounds for a small banning. The fact that you feel the need to appeal a 720 minute ban instead of considering WHY the ban was handed down speaks for itself, in my opinion.

I want to stress this point again, because I feel it's going to be over looked. This ban was not about the killing of the cargo tech - the ban is because you have a history of poor behaviour, and accidentally killing someone is enough that I felt a small ban was appropriate.

Since you seem so insistent on this cargo tech being a "validhunter" - I think attempting to help sec take down someone they're chasing is a good idea. For all this cargo tech knew, you were bombing his station, or there to attack him or his coworkers. Attempting to help an officer take down a criminal is not an example of shitty behviour - attempting to justify breaking into the armoury as "everyone does it" (they don't) and "it happens every round" (it doesn't) is shitty behaviour.

I was banned for someone deciding to do secs job for them and accidentally killing themselves for their own ineptitude.


You were banned for consistently shitty behaviour.

I'd like to suggest you take some time to browse this guide. Section two is particularly relevant, considering your snarky behaviour in ahelps and attempts to make this about the fact that I'm a dirty TRIALMIN from BAGIL (I'm not from bagil, let me stress that).

EDIT:

Kor wrote:Should have banned the dumb cargo tech for adminhelping after doing something stupid


No offense, Kor, but I think taking the ban appeal's explanation of events as exactly what happened is a poor idea.

The note consisted of a watchlist note saying something along the lines of "known for shitter behaviour, likely going to require intervention if this continues". I'm not sure what makes you think you should be privy to every note made on your account, but that's what it said.
Last edited by Qbopper on Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Limey wrote:its too late.

PostThis post was deleted by Qbopper on Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:32 am.
Reason: that's not EDIT

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby lollerderby » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:33 am #248207

Sweets wrote:Hmm Watchlist for shitty behavior? That's funny. I still only have one public note. Adminbus back to secret notes again?


well ok if you had no idea people were taking exception to you greytiding round after round then consider this your warning
DEAD: Tim Ebow says, ">rylie talking shit and not actually doing anything again"
DEAD: Tim Ebow says, "What a twist"

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby Sweets » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:38 am #248209

You were banned for consistently shitty behaviour.


This is the part I don't understand. So it's a rule 0 ban. Fine I get that sure. But my notes page is spotless save for a requested clock cult ban. I have had NO warnings. I didn't think there was anything wrong with how I played the game because there was never any formal warning and I literally see a good half of the Sybil population do the same. So now, I'm being banned for something that seems small and entirely WASN'T EVEN WORTHY OF BEING AHELPABLE out of the blue because I was on a "watchlist for shitty behavior"?

How about you make my notes public and give a formal warning to know that I'm doing something wrong instead of "Nah, you're banned for shitty behavior even though we never told you to change your act :^):.

Edit: Oh man. I know why i am on that list now. It wasn't for greytiding. It was for throwing a blood cultist who insulted me for about five minutes out an airlock while we waited for the chaplain to come deconvert him. I was put on a list for killing someone that rule 4 said i was allowed to kill, especially considering we were out of mindshield implants.

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby Qbopper » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:48 am #248217

This is the part I don't understand. So it's a rule 0 ban. Fine I get that sure. But my notes page is spotless save for a requested clock cult ban. I have had NO warnings. I didn't think there was anything wrong with how I played the game because there was never any formal warning and I literally see a good half of the Sybil population do the same. So now, I'm being banned for something that seems small and entirely WASN'T EVEN WORTHY OF BEING AHELPABLE out of the blue because I was on a "watchlist for shitty behavior"?

How about you make my notes public and give a formal warning to know that I'm doing something wrong instead of "Nah, you're banned for shitty behavior even though we never told you to change your act :^):.


1. Admins don't need to post every thought or feeling they have about players publicly, I don't know where you got the idea that they do, and we don't need notes to recognize when you're being a terrible player between rounds. Should you have been warned? Maybe. I think it should be evident that greytiding round after round for no apparent reason is poor behaviour. If you disagree, then consider this the warning. It's a 12 hour ban, I'm sure you can wait it out.

2. You continue to snark at me - I can absolutely sympathize with frustration over a ban, but acting rude towards the person handing it down (as you would have seen in the link I provided) is a great way to kill any sympathy they have for you. I was actually hesitating to ban you - I was unsure if it was a good idea or not. The moment you begun to act rudely in ahelps my opinion swung and I listened to the others online encouraging I give you a short ban to consider your actions.

3. You do not see "a good half do the same". This is a pretty common fallacy - humans are awful at this. WE assume that because we do something or feel one way, everyone else must as well. I guarantee you that half the server's population does not act this way, because half the server's population has not been rule zero'd.

If you need formal warnings to not be a terrible player, something is wrong. I was willing to hear out your appeal and reconsider my position, but you've done nothing but reinforce my beliefs you need to rethink what you're doing on /tg/.

I would tell you the ban appeal is denied and lock the thread, but now I'm thinking you would go to a headmin and ask for the thread (an appeal for a 720 minute ban) to be unlocked, so I'll let someone above me do it to prove that this isn't just me conspiring against you.
Last edited by Qbopper on Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
Limey wrote:its too late.

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby bandit » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:52 am #248219

I'm not really comfortable with the precedent of banning people for accidents. People get spaced all the time from that shuttle and it usually doesn't result in much more than a "be careful next time" bwoink. I don't really see how "people say you've graytided in other rounds" is enough to change that precedent, since it genuinely does seem like an inevitable side effect of getting into a fight on the mining shuttle and since when I think of "graytiding" I think of "deliberately provoking and being a dick to other players," not "committing capital crimes mostly for oneself." (Obviously, if there turns out to be another side to the story, I might change my mind on this.)

That said I've adminned on Sibyl with Qbopper enough times that you should know better than this server war/"TRIAL admin" bullshit. It really doesn't help your case.

EDIT: When I say "accidents" I obviously don't mean huge catastrophic shit like releasing a singulo in the main halls, but minor stuff like this
Last edited by bandit on Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby Qbopper » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:59 am #248224

bandit wrote:"deliberately provoking and being a dick to other players"


If I'm not mistaken the player in question has been noted to do this exact thing, but I could be wrong on that one.

EDIT:

Edit: Oh man. I know why i am on that list now. It wasn't for greytiding. It was for throwing a blood cultist who insulted me for about five minutes out an airlock while we waited for the chaplain to come deconvert him. I was put on a list for killing someone that rule 4 said i was allowed to kill, especially considering we were out of mindshield implants.


No, you were put on the list with a general note about how often you've been seen doing stuff that is technically ok within the rules, but is obnoxious to other players and generally poor behaviour.
Limey wrote:its too late.

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby Sweets » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:05 am #248227

Qbopper wrote:1. Admins don't need to post every thought or feeling they have about players publicly, I don't know where you got the idea that they do, and we don't need notes to recognize when you're being a terrible player between rounds. Should you have been warned? Maybe. I think it should be evident that greytiding round after round for no apparent reason is poor behaviour. If you disagree, then consider this the warning. It's a 12 hour ban, I'm sure you can wait it out.


I've yet to see ONE other example of me "greytiding round after round" , you know why? Because I don't do it. I don't play assistant. My most played jobs are Sec and clown. This is why I am being snarky and questioning this ban. Because I'm being banned for something that I rarely ever do and do much less that half the server ( Fesa, Derek, Pax, Klara, George Lucas, Peter Vandalmar,Talist, Grandmaster Honk, Pocket, Loves, Smells, Gordan Fryer, Silencio, Cazz, Zoe Ramos, Zoey Webb, Kat Richards, Kat Wolfe, Breddan, Zaex, ect). In addition it is not a warning. It is a ban. They are different.

Qbopper wrote:2. You continue to snark at me - I can absolutely sympathize with frustration over a ban, but acting rude towards the person handing it down (as you would have seen in the link I provided) is a great way to kill any sympathy they have for you. I was actually hesitating to ban you - I was unsure if it was a good idea or not. The moment you begun to act rudely in ahelps my opinion swung and I listened to the others online encouraging I give you a short ban to consider your actions.


Fine. I accept that you are not a bagil player, I assumed you were because I have literally never seen you on sybil.

Qbopper wrote:3. You do not see "a good half do the same". This is a pretty common fallacy - humans are awful at this. WE assume that because we do something or feel one way, everyone else must as well. I guarantee you that half the server's population does not act this way, because half the server's population has not been rule zero'd.


Except...I do, look at the list of players up there who I have seen act similar to me. I guarantee every name up there has done what I just did this round in terms of BnE/Armory Shenanigans at least once in the past week. That can easily be viewed as a good portion of sybils playerbase.

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby Sweets » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:17 am #248229

Qbopper wrote:No, you were put on the list with a general note about how often you've been seen doing stuff that is technically ok within the rules, but is obnoxious to other players and generally poor behaviour.


AHA here it is. This is what I wanted. An exact REASON as to why I was banned. It is a rule zero ban.

My issue with this is that I honestly did not think I was being an obnoxious dick and giving as good as I got while still following the rules. Generally a rule zero ban stems from "Going out of your way to seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone with little IC justification is against the rules." I always tried to justify my actions IC and never murdered anyone unless it was self defense or I had a good IC reason. I go out of my way to even apply this to my ANTAG rounds unlike most of the playerbase and generally thought I was behaving in an acceptable matter to the community as I had yet to even be formally or informally warned by the admin team.

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby Qbopper » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:24 am #248235

Sweets wrote:
Qbopper wrote:1. Admins don't need to post every thought or feeling they have about players publicly, I don't know where you got the idea that they do, and we don't need notes to recognize when you're being a terrible player between rounds. Should you have been warned? Maybe. I think it should be evident that greytiding round after round for no apparent reason is poor behaviour. If you disagree, then consider this the warning. It's a 12 hour ban, I'm sure you can wait it out.


I've yet to see ONE other example of me "greytiding round after round" , you know why? Because I don't do it. I don't play assistant. My most played jobs are Sec and clown. This is why I am being snarky and questioning this ban. Because I'm being banned for something that I rarely ever do and do much less that half the server ( Fesa, Derek, Pax, Klara, George Lucas, Peter Vandalmar,Talist, Grandmaster Honk, Pocket, Loves, Smells, Gordan Fryer, Silencio, Cazz, Zoe Ramos, Zoey Webb, Kat Richards, Kat Wolfe, Breddan, Zaex, ect). In addition it is not a warning. It is a ban. They are different.

Qbopper wrote:2. You continue to snark at me - I can absolutely sympathize with frustration over a ban, but acting rude towards the person handing it down (as you would have seen in the link I provided) is a great way to kill any sympathy they have for you. I was actually hesitating to ban you - I was unsure if it was a good idea or not. The moment you begun to act rudely in ahelps my opinion swung and I listened to the others online encouraging I give you a short ban to consider your actions.


Fine. I accept that you are not a bagil player, I assumed you were because I have literally never seen you on sybil.

Qbopper wrote:3. You do not see "a good half do the same". This is a pretty common fallacy - humans are awful at this. WE assume that because we do something or feel one way, everyone else must as well. I guarantee you that half the server's population does not act this way, because half the server's population has not been rule zero'd.


Except...I do, look at the list of players up there who I have seen act similar to me. I guarantee every name up there has done what I just did this round in terms of BnE/Armory Shenanigans at least once in the past week. That can easily be viewed as a good portion of sybils playerbase.


1. Greytiding is not literally only an assistant trait, it's a catchall term used to describe that kind of behaviour. Rules lawyering with me is not going to help you - it actively hinders any chance you have of being unbanned early. You believing the ban is unfair is not an excuse to resort to personal attacks.

Seriously, it's embarassing that you say just because I'm a TRIALMIN my opinion means less.

2. doesn't change the fact that me being "from" bagil or sybil is irrelevant, and I'm unsure why you mentioned it at all.

3. You seem to believe we have a shitlist of players that we eagerly rub our hands together as we brose looking for the next victim. We don't. You were put on the watchlist (a literal term that means when you connect, a note is displayed - that's it) for poor behaviour. This ban is not about anyone else, and if those players consistently act obnoxious enoguh we watchlist them, the same is likely to happen to them. We're also not prone to keeping players in the loop as to who has been banned and for what purpose - it's not secret, but we don't advertise it.

In addition, I fail to see how others acting shitty excuses your behaviour. For all you know, every player you listed was warned and you aren't aware of that.

I've been thinking and talking in adminbus, and I think that not giving a proper warning was a misstep. Your attitude, however, where you have consistently been disrespectful to me and refused to consider your position anywhere near to wrong, has been enough for me to feel the ban is still warranted. If you had calmly posted your concerns instead of sniping at me about "learning sybil culture" and being a trialmin, this would have turned out differently.

(Was typing this before last post, new reply follows)

If it comes down to me taking your word versus the word of the admin team as to wether or not you've been a good player, I'm taking the admins side. I will admit to not having seen every incident of poor behaviour you've ever done, and maybe I even disagree with what some admins see as poor behaviour. I, again, will also admit that not explicitly warning you may have been a misstep - I believed the watchlist note implied that admins have had to speak with you multiple times. Maybe they have, I can't know everything.

After this amazing display of hostility towards me, though, I'm finding it hard to really care.
Limey wrote:its too late.

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby Sweets » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:38 am #248241

Qbopper wrote:I've been thinking and talking in adminbus, and I think that not giving a proper warning was a misstep. Your attitude, however, where you have consistently been disrespectful to me and refused to consider your position anywhere near to wrong, has been enough for me to feel the ban is still warranted. If you had calmly posted your concerns instead of sniping at me about "learning sybil culture" and being a trialmin, this would have turned out differently.

(Was typing this before last post, new reply follows)

If it comes down to me taking your word versus the word of the admin team as to wether or not you've been a good player, I'm taking the admins side. I will admit to not having seen every incident of poor behaviour you've ever done, and maybe I even disagree with what some admins see as poor behaviour. I, again, will also admit that not explicitly warning you may have been a misstep - I believed the watchlist note implied that admins have had to speak with you multiple times. Maybe they have, I can't know everything.

After this amazing display of hostility towards me, though, I'm finding it hard to really care.


I've been bwoinked to ask questions about a thing or two sure, but never formally warned to change anything, and it's nice to see you agree.

However other than the initial anger from being banned, which is a natural human reaction, where I have I once showed any hostility? This passive aggressiveness and acting like you're the victim of some tirade of abuse from me akin to how the community treats goof's coding is baffling. Outside of my initial anger ( Due to being banned and the fact that I mistakenly thought you were trying to enforce Bagil escalation levels and Trial Admins couldn't ban), I haven't said a thing negative to you or the rest of the admin crew (until now I suppose.)

You wanna talk about snark and Hostility? You basically just said "Yeah me banning you straight up was probably wrong, but I already did it and hurt my feelings so I'm keeping it in place despite being in the wrong." Great job there.

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby kevinz000 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:40 am #248242

Can I just add that calling someone a "Filthy Bagil Trialmin" and having a shit attitude will not help you?
People have been banned for it and I hope they still do in the future for having a horrible attitude.
You do not get to say "Oh you're a trialmin so I don't respect you", an admin's an admin, sure they're trialmins but they're still part of the admin team and you need to understand that.
Having a bad attitude will only worsen your case. It is literally impossible for your case to be made better by throwing insults at admins.

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby Sweets » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:43 am #248244

kevinz000 wrote: "Filthy Bagil Trialmin"

Show me where I said that. I'll wait.

I will admit though that i misunderstood trial admins are full admins. I assumed they were basically still learning and not allowed to hand out bans leading to why I was peeved I was banned by one who I thought was overstepping his reach.

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby kevinz000 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:00 am #248246

"dirty TRIALMIN from BAGIL" - Qbopper, but my point stands, if you put in better attitude you'll generally get a better outcome.

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby Atlanta-Ned » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:19 am #248255

I watchlisted you for RCDing into the brig as a nonantag during a cult round.

That being said? The cargo tech played a stupid game and won a stupid prize.
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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby Sweets » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:25 am #248259

Atlanta-Ned wrote:I watchlisted you for RCDing into the brig as a nonantag during a cult round.

That being said? The cargo tech played a stupid game and won a stupid prize.

You mean where I RCDed back into the brig as a clown because the HoS took my backpack,ID, PDA, Banana, Crayon and Horn and didn't give them back and kept them in the CONTRABAND LOCKER? Wern't you the HoS?

Isn't it against the rules to do admin things like leave notes or put people on lists in rounds where you ate playing? Especially if you are directly involved? Double especially if you already dealt with it IC by executing me and locking me in a locker in brig?
Last edited by Sweets on Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby danno » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:34 am #248264

I'm not sure how reasonable it is to see something doing something stupid often, not say anything about it, and then be surprised when they don't change their behavior.
Someone should have given the man a public note or a proper warning if they wanted him to know he was doing wrong.

Not everyone is going to see the game the way you see it, can you seriously ban someone like this and say "You should have known! You should have known even though no one told you!" ?

edit: like imagine for a second you were playing the game as you play it, without any idea or anyone telling you that the way you play is "the wrong way to play", and suddenly you were banned for doing something you regularly do. You ask why, and you're told that you've been playing wrong all along, and they have been silently watching you and going "Tsk tsk, that's not the right way to play." and waiting for you to stop doing it.

like,

what

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby onleavedontatme » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:22 am #248275

To put things into perspective he has 10 notes (3 bans) after 2222 connections and 1.5 years.


2015-12-10 06:33:23
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Sybil
Banned from gangster - If you don't want to play gang then this will help.

2016-09-03 07:00:41
isratosh
Sybil
Tried to pull the "so he can kill anybody he wants to then?" to me after they got executed by security for uploading obviously malicious laws to the AI.

2016-10-27 02:41:16
atlantaned
Sybil
Warned - Chopping legs off as a chaplain, getting involved in situations that could easily be avoided

2016-11-20 02:43:50
excessiveuseofcobby
Sybil
Banned from servant of Ratvar - Suicided as Clockcult. After 11/20/16 they can ask for this to be removed at any time.

2016-12-21 04:30:04
bgobandit
Sybil
Warned -- IC in OOC

2016-12-30 03:48:41
durkel
Sybil
Attempted to release the tesla as a juggernaut even after a cultist told him not to.

2017-01-24 21:58:49
doctorpork
Sybil
Hit a greytider that had been harassing them for the duration of the round with an explosive lance. Warned about improper escalation.

2017-01-24 23:11:21
atlantaned
Sybil
Warned - Spaced a confirmed cultist for talking smack. Said cultist was completly naked, cuffed to a chair and about to be deconverted.

2017-01-25 03:52:06
atlantaned
Sybil
Added to Watchlist - Pattern of shitty-yet-not-ban-worthy behavior. Will probably warrant an internvention here soon enough.

2017-01-27 02:54:04
qbopper
Sybil
Banned for 720 minutes - Was on watchlist for poor behaviour, greytiding led to someone else's death.


I don't think it's fair to treat someone like trash because they got a bit mad that they were banned for a warning they never knew they had after two thousand rounds of more or less being left alone by admins. Obviously I missed the actual situation and what happened in it and all the associated PMs and maybe he was being a dick but the way the appeal is being handled just seems off.

onleavedontatme
 
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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby onleavedontatme » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:25 am #248276

Kor wrote:doctorpork
Sybil
Hit a greytider that had been harassing them for the duration of the round with an explosive lance. Warned about improper escalation.
2017-01-24 23:11:21
atlantaned
Sybil
Warned - Spaced a confirmed cultist for talking smack. Said cultist was completly naked, cuffed to a chair and about to be deconverted.


These both seem like bad notes by the way

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bandit
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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby bandit » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:49 am #248281

Also, without naming names, I can tell you that if someone is enough of a shitter/graytider that it actually does approach the final straw, that's almost always gonna be specifically mentioned in that person's notes ("if he pulls this shit again, show no mercy"). Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. (Watchlists are kind of weird with this and no one really knows what to do with them, but I'm pretty sure this isn't it.)
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admin feedback pls

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oranges
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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby oranges » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:51 am #248282

being an oldfag doesn't preclude you from getting burned out and deciding to ruin other peoples rounds like bryce pax

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TehSteveo
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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby TehSteveo » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:19 am #248286

Yes, behavior should have been discussed before hand, but as of now I'm going to say let this ban serve as the official warning in regards to it. The point is now to change certain behaviors; such as breaking into the armory as a non-antagonist so you can go kill PvE bosses on lavaland better for yourself. This behavior has been seen before and guess where these players are playing at now. You have not done yourself any favors with the way you are arguing by throwing out accusations. If you somehow think another human is going to not judge you more harshly after you are being disrespectful I'm not sure what to say to you.

Ahelps transaction for context.

Spoiler:
[02:47:39]ADMIN: PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Reondin/(Esther Leonyaards): Hey, when you get a sec can I talk to you?
[02:47:54]ADMIN: PM: Reondin/(Esther Leonyaards)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): Let me guess. guy ahelped that he spaced himself.
[02:48:52]ADMIN: PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Reondin/(Esther Leonyaards): From the context I've been told, the guy didn't "space himself". Can you give me your side?
[02:50:04]ADMIN: PM: Reondin/(Esther Leonyaards)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): I was running from security trying to get to mining and he was ADAMANT that he should help bring me in by following me onto the mining shuttle and sending it back and spam disarma nd dragging me back to cargo. I disarmed him in cargo and sent the shuttle back and he tried to get on as it launched and was spaced.
[02:50:26]ADMIN: PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Reondin/(Esther Leonyaards): Why were you running from sec in the first place?
[02:51:17]ADMIN: PM: Reondin/(Esther Leonyaards)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): Because Derek and the warden wanted to perma me for breaking into armory . Which I did to look in the contraband locker to see if there was a good weapon to help with mining, since when I tried, there was NO security force.
[02:53:25]ADMIN: PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Reondin/(Esther Leonyaards): Alright, due to your history and after hearing that story, you leading to someone's death is enough for a small temp ban. If you'd like to appeal it, the forums are open. Sorry, but that's crossing the line.
[02:53:39]ADMIN: PM: Reondin/(Esther Leonyaards)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): YEah appealing immediately. Learn Sybil culture.
[02:53:51]ADMIN: PM: Reondin/(Esther Leonyaards)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): Don't admin here Bagil player


I can probably lift this ban; but if I do it wouldn't mean much as of now there's eight hours left and they are no longer likely here so I'd be willing to bet it'll expire by the time when they return. Also, a note still is going to reflect this and I'll probably write something more detailed including the fact of why you broke into an armory as a non-antagonist.

I am going to make a directive for admins in that if they see players that are behaving in a certain manner or if admins are seeing trends of negative behavior that may eventually grow to become a worse issue; to simply talk with them first and foremost to ask to warn them to change with a note reflecting a discussion rather than wait for the issue to then finally bear fruit and cause problems such as these.
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PKPenguin321
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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby PKPenguin321 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:56 am #248292

I hate that just because a ban is about to run out anyways it's suddenly okay to let it stick even though the appeal is valid and passable. If this appeal was deemed valid and his actions not truly ban-worthy, just unban him and remove this from his record. Half of the reason to even appeal a ban is so you don't get a shitty note about something that you weren't even really guilty for that will be used against you in future ban rulings.

Tl;dr: If you think this appeal is unbanworthy, unban him now and do it right by stripping the note or at least editing it to say that it should be held with little regard. Don't half ass it just because the ban is almost up anyways.
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TehSteveo
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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby TehSteveo » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:02 am #248294

PKPenguin321 wrote:I hate that just because a ban is about to run out anyways it's suddenly okay to let it stick even though the appeal is valid and passable. If this appeal was deemed valid and his actions not truly ban-worthy, just unban him and remove this from his record. Half of the reason to even appeal a ban is so you don't get a shitty note about something that you weren't even really guilty for that will be used against you in future ban rulings.

Tl;dr: If you think this appeal is unbanworthy, unban him now and do it right by stripping the note or at least editing it to say that it should be held with little regard. Don't half ass it just because the ban is almost up anyways.
Point is that It's noteworthy so ban being lifted just means they can play. Honestly though, after reading through logs I'm letting the ban stay.
Freedom

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peoplearestrange
 
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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby peoplearestrange » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:07 am #248313

I feel its worth pointing out that "legacy" notes (i.e. before they became public) are automatically made private. This is to prevent notes that need to be private being made public and there are far too many ckey's and notes to go through individually.

Also Kor I'm not sure that 10 notes and 3 bans in a year and half is much of a good perspective. We have MANY players who have no notes and no bans after years and years of playing. Even those that have notes but 0 bans would seem more respectable in my opinion. However that said, it does depend on the actual notes and bans being given rather than the quantity. Its a 'whole picture' kinda thing that needs to be taken in here.

Edit: Maybe its time we get the heads to make a final call on this. This ban seems to have escalated past the point where its solution is simple.
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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby Sweets » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:07 pm #248330

You might as well let the ban run its course if I had thag mang warrented notes. I REALLY would have liked to know I had those notes to know I should change my behavior some though or a formal warning.

I am still a bit salty that the banning admin admitted that what I did wasn't worth of a ban and I was banned on a angry reaction to being banned as opposed to what I actually did and that it stemmed from being put on a watchlist by admin action from an admin who didn't deadmin and was directly involved in the matter.

C'est la vie. If there is a silver lining, I'm glad a policy change on warnings and admin preemptive intervention into player behavior came out of this.

On a closing note. Kevinz stop uploading/playing midis when I fight megafauna or tendies.

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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby Qbopper » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:39 pm #248332

Like I said before, I'm willing to admit the lack of warning was wrong. I assumed you were warned, and obviously that was a misstep. Maybe we need a clearer policy here.

That beind said, as kevinz said - I'm not mad my feelings were hurt. I laughed at the trialmin comment. I think that behaviour is indicative of a poor mentality, and last night I was a little rude saying that, but once again you tried to rules lawyer us (kevinz was speaking of your mentality, not the literal words "filthy bagil trialmin".

I'm willing to own up to my mistakes, admit I'm wrong, and work to make things better. I would hope you do the same.
Limey wrote:its too late.

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TehSteveo
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Re: [QBopper] Reondin Banned for validhunter spaceing self

Postby TehSteveo » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:08 pm #248346

To be fair, it isn't so much Qbopper's fault as it is the fault as it is due to a warning should have likely been issued with said watchlist. Qbopper is only doing as they were taught which is to take into consideration notes/watchlists with the current action before deciding an action to take. In addition, a new trialmin should not be expected to know everything and is very much still learning how to handle different situations as it is not clear cut. We get complaints of lack of admins so one the growing pains to remedy that issue is having people learn. At the same time they should not be treated like they know nothing at all when considering in the past few months the admins that been putting in the most work on both servers have been trials.

Anyway, I'm going to consider this drama resolved. Result is that ban stays, the watchlist was removed as a note suffices, the ban description/note was changed to better reflect the situation and ban. Admins will be asked to intervene earlier if they start seeing trends that they consider may become problematic rather than wait for for it to become a problem.
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