Nanotrasen Inc Needs You! (EVE online)

QuartzCrystal · Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:40 pm

Bottom post of the previous page:

Oh god plz no. No war against Marmite.

EDIT: Forgot to include I know those guys are crazy assholes.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:50 am #29211

Yeah, it's a bit wacky. I talked to some people and what I'm told is that Pasta apparently shrekt some Marmite guys while they were running an incursion in the Olive Garden. So now Marmite b mad and decided to try to throw their weight around and wardec Pasta like they wardec all kinds of random carebears and smaller outfits.

...except in this case Pasta has twice as many numbers and more experience in open warfare.

It's the difference between waging war against people who don't know how to fight and wouldn't want to anyway vs guys who enjoy that kind of challenge. The biggest problem for Pasta in this situation is they can't use their bomber blobs in Empire, where Marmite hangs out almost exclusively.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:35 am #29232

(play this while reading the following for extra grit o7)

Here's the deal:

Being the CEO of our corp has been an incredibly challenging effort already because a lot of folks are putting their stake in how much fun they get out of EVE in my ability to make decisions for what we all ought to do. And I appreciate that people have that much confidence in me and I aim to make good on it.

It was inevitable that some group like Marmite, if not Marmite itself, would've happened across us and decided we would make a great target. And the truth is, we WOULD make a wonderful target right now. We have zero ability to muster any kind of fleet, we have a smattering of industrial focused skills invested in a mostly new group of players. There are maybe two of us out of all ten that can fit a respectable amount of DPS and Tank on a hull and then afford to pay up for the loss when it inevitably explodes.

I've been rushing leadership and fleet skills and encouraging people to build up their mining ability so that I can directly help players start PLEX'ing and get a foothold in the game as Stage 1. I got the Orca. It aint great boosts, but they're boosts. Short of just grinding L4's myself and stuffing ISK in your pockets, it's the best idea I got.

If people can tolerate shooting rocks and we dont eat shit during our transition into Pasta, or for whatever reason our app gets rejected and we remain unnoticed long enough to try to broker a pact with another alliance or we just get space rich, we can then move on to Stage 2: using that surplus ISK to fund PVP roams and our own wardecs against other high-sec carebears.

That's been my plan all along:

1) Weasel our way into a better alliance that gives random corps less incentive to wardec us, or keep our operations so low-key and contained to one area that simply nobody notices us.
2) Get ISK in people's pockets. Respec my attributes and change my skill plan to EL JEFE GUAPO to make other people earn more ISK faster.
3) Once people are earning reliably, change my skill plan to EL JEFE VIOLENCIO and start leading us on the glorious path to collecting killmails, frozen corpses, and barrels of Interstellar Crybaby Bitch Tears.

If I'm going to lead us to greatness, I need to surround myself with the greatest.

So, are you assholes still with me?

If you're on the fence, will you now join us?

We're gonna get that fuckken disk.

M0nsoon · Post by **M0nsoon** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:02 am #29235

If you nerds want to earn some ISK, learn to pvp (might show Pasta you guys have experiance) AND get your Caldari rep up, you guys should do factional warfare, you'll get loyalty points which you can trade in for Navy Issue ships, implants, and other goodies that you can sell for a good amount of ISK.

All you have to do is capture or defend zones called "PLEX" you get more for capturing an enemy PLEX because of the danger, and of course the bigger the PLEX the more LP you'll get.
Blow the shit out of the enemy, making them flee the system will earn you some LP, while outright killing them will earn you more.
You can also interect with the DUST bunnies here, if your ship has Orbital Bombardment ammo (Projectile, hybrid, laser only) to get some LP and some killmail for blasting those bunnies.

All of this can be done in fully done in T1 ships, and if you already have your own supply of ISK you can use T2 items to be even more effective.

Also since this will be in Low Sec, you might also consider doing PI there too. It's 100x better then Hisec PI and the planets yield more over a smaller period of time.

Kangaraptor · Post by **Kangaraptor** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:12 am #29239

M0nsoon wrote:If you nerds want to earn some ISK, learn to pvp (might show Pasta you guys have experiance) AND get your Caldari rep up, you guys should do factional warfare, you'll get loyalty points which you can trade in for Navy Issue ships, implants, and other goodies that you can sell for a good amount of ISK.

All you have to do is capture or defend zones called "PLEX" you get more for capturing an enemy PLEX because of the danger, and of course the bigger the PLEX the more LP you'll get.
Blow the shit out of the enemy, making them flee the system will earn you some LP, while outright killing them will earn you more.
You can also interect with the DUST bunnies here, if your ship has Orbital Bombardment ammo (Projectile, hybrid, laser only) to get some LP and some killmail for blasting those bunnies.

All of this can be done in fully done in T1 ships, and if you already have your own supply of ISK you can use T2 items to be even more effective.

Also since this will be in Low Sec, you might also consider doing PI there too. It's 100x better then Hisec PI and the planets yield more over a smaller period of time.

the zones aren't called "PLEX", they're nicknamed 'plexes because it's short for complex.

But yeah FW complexes are basically isk printing machines.

Reyouka · Post by **Reyouka** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:51 am #29245

With me it's more the issue of I'd rather not start a new account again, so I'm waiting to get some dosh to resub. I've actually bought the game around 3 times over the years, and lost the previous two accounts. First time I ever bought it was back when it was still sold in stores, with the like 2-3 disc set it came on. Sadly don't have those discs anymore, but it'd take so many patches to get a install like that running that I'd be waiting for a week.

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:39 pm #29279

You guys could consider moving to NPC nullsec space at some point. It used to be completely doable for independents in some areas
Just make sure you don't piss off the locals and slowly assimilate into becoming the locals. And that it's one of the more tolerant regions where they don't shoot anything not blue on sight

I'm not sure if a place like that even still exists, but it may be worth looking into

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:05 pm #29284

All of these are suggestions I've considered for the future but we're logistically incapable of at the moment.

Faction warfare and Incursions are outside our ability to coordinate. Like I said before we only have two or three heavy hitters. Most corp members are less than two months old.

Reyouka · Post by **Reyouka** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:24 pm #29288

I was training drones back when I did play. Unless something changed since then, which is likely, drone boats can melt targets if kitted right.

QuartzCrystal · Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:41 pm

Drones are very helpful still yes, especially (I find) if they're skilled properly and it's a small gang fight. They really add to the DPS.

They're also extremely helpful for running missions and sites in groups, which is my primary source of ISK and with more people (once I'm in the game) running sites regularly can help us pay for what we'll inevitably lose in the pew.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:21 pm #29313

Reyouka wrote:I was training drones back when I did play. Unless something changed since then, which is likely, drone boats can melt targets if kitted right.

I personally like drones a lot also, but that's only part of the whole. "If kitted right" is really the operative phrase here. What kind of hulls can you fly? Can you fit an Ishtar?

Even on the low end though we could be pretty damn effective if we get 4-5 of us flying around together in Vexors.

Reyouka · Post by **Reyouka** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:36 pm #29316

Ishtar is the tier 2, right? If I remember right, no, though I was flying a Vexor.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:45 pm #29319

Ishtar is the HAC variant of the Vexor.

It used to be a weird green color. The Creo Dron blue is much cooler looking.

Reyouka · Post by **Reyouka** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:48 pm #29322

Yeah, wasn't quite up that far on skills, though I was flying a Vexor. Part of the requirements done skillwise

Oh hey, found a link to my character - http://eveboard.com/pilot/Reyouka1

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:50 pm #29323

Even if your account is inactive you can put your information into EVEMon via the API and take a look at your skills and assets. Here's a few handy tools:

Aura for Android

EVE Mon

Python Fitting Assistant (an alternative to EVE Fitting Tool)

Reyouka · Post by **Reyouka** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:10 pm #29327

HAH, just checked my character through EVEmon, apparently my last mail was from you.

"It's An0n3. fuck you makin me pay dem taxes to message you."

I'm actually surprised this works, considered my account has no gametime on it. I can even see the stuff I have on various stations.

EDIT - I have apparently almost 1.5 million SP in drone skills

QuartzCrystal · Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:37 pm

I'm still quite broke, does someone wanna hook me up with a recall program invite?

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:35 pm #29339

Unfortunately the recall program was only available for a limited time, and it's over now.

If you have ISK on your account to purchase a PLEX (or just have PLEX on hand) you can get a four hours of game time to purchase or activate a PLEX in game.

QuartzCrystal · Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:38 pm

I don't think I have enough for a PLEX. I think I'll be able to scrounge up a bit of dosh for a month though soon.

Reyouka · Post by **Reyouka** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:40 pm #29350

How much is a PLEX right now ingame?

M0nsoon · Post by **M0nsoon** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:51 pm #29353

800 mil

Reyouka · Post by **Reyouka** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:53 pm #29354

Hah, all of my assets together are 32 mil, so much for that

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:22 pm #29383

Jesus Christ, didn't they use to be like 350 mil?

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:42 pm #29391

They did

I remember they could be bought for 350m when I played. Up to maybe 400 at the high end when I stopped
But then I also remember one guy with 12 afk mining accounts supporting those 12+his main with just PLEX from the mining income, so I imagine the price went up to make that not quite possible anymore. Otherwise they could have just gone free to play after all

M0nsoon · Post by **M0nsoon** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:11 pm #29397

They used to be like 500 mil but because CCP increased PLEX price, the economy price goes up with it sadly

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:30 pm #29406

Does PLEX cost more in cash now? I thought it got cheaper to purchase in cash, if anything.

The problem is the ridiculous inflation going on in-game because of what XSI said, multi-box'ers running mining swarms around hi-sec and hauling out entire belts at a time. It creates wealth, which in turn makes all other wealth worth less. Because they can do this so rapidly on such a large scale it's tanking the economy.

If there's anything positive to be said about CODE it's that they're (ostensibly) supposed to be fighting this kind of thing through terrorism. The truth is they're too inept and near-sighted to actually know how to pull off a pipe bombing against a cloud of mackinaw bots. They gank lone covetors in groups of 5-6 and claim a great victory, meanwhile some dude with his cloud of 40 characters (seriously I've seen 40 all at once controlled by one dude while wandering around) is left alone because they're too stupid to figure it out.

QuartzCrystal · Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:26 am

Thankfully it's bannable to be caught doing the bot thing where you control all of them at the same time.

M0nsoon · Post by **M0nsoon** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:31 am #29411

An0n3 wrote:Does PLEX cost more in cash now? I thought it got cheaper to purchase in cash, if anything.

It's cheaper to sub to the game with cash, but buying a PLEX itself is more expensive

callanrockslol · Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:19 am

I think I may come back to EVE if people are actually playing it, although it hasn't been 6 months since I quit the last time

Also I can point and may be located in a WH somewhere, not sure

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:42 am #29465

QuartzCrystal wrote:Thankfully it's bannable to be caught doing the bot thing where you control all of them at the same time.

No it's not. Multi-boxing is fine. Sharing commands over groups over characters like they were units in an RTS is allowed.

The only thing that's banned is setting up a bot to play itself. Distributing commands to huge numbers of characters at once is actually cool by the rules.

callanrockslol wrote:I think I may come back to EVE if people are actually playing it, although it hasn't been 6 months since I quit the last time

Also I can point and may be located in a WH somewhere, not sure

The more the merrier. I would have booted anyone from the corp that wasn't currently active as of a month or so ago, but obviously everyone is welcome to come right back.

NEW ROOKS AND KINGS MOTHERFUCKERS

[youtube]LNUu75fH8Uc[/youtube]

dem pipebombs
dem goon tears

Comrade Leo · Post by **Comrade Leo** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:49 am #29520

That was a glorious watch. Goons a shit.

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:59 am #29521

Does anyone know exactly how well the Covetor performs compared to the Hulk? Because frankly I'm too reluctant to go out mining in my Hulk any more, it's just too valuable to risk getting suicide ganked.

Not that I'm planning on getting back into this game. b-baka

M0nsoon · Post by **M0nsoon** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:19 am #29523

Ricotez wrote:Does anyone know exactly how well the Covetor performs compared to the Hulk? Because frankly I'm too reluctant to go out mining in my Hulk any more, it's just too valuable to risk getting suicide ganked.

Not that I'm planning on getting back into this game. b-baka

Just like the hulk, but slower and weaker.

If you plan on solo mining and your scared to get suicide ganked use the procurer or skiff.

Retriever and Mackinaw have the biggest holds, so I consider them the best solo miners if don't they get ganked

Comrade Leo · Post by **Comrade Leo** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:13 pm #29530

I use a procurer because I am paranoid incarnate about being ganked.

QuartzCrystal · Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:16 pm

Hulk is only really useful if you're mining with others. The hold is too small and it mines too fast to be viable for solo work.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:20 pm #29549

In terms of speed:

1) Hulk / Covetor
2) Skiff / Procurer
3) Mackinaw / Retriever

In terms of ore hold:

1) Mackinaw / Retriever (~24,000m3)
2) Skiff / Procurer (~12,000m3)
3) Hulk / Covetor (~7,000m3)

In terms of tank:

1) Skiff / Procurer (24,000 raw)
2) Mackinaw / Retriever (7000 raw)
3) Hulk / Coveter (4000 raw)

Use the Skiff / Procurer if you're actually at your keyboard playing and want to get a little dicey grabbing the good stuff. The Hulk / Covetor is good if you're in a gang and have some protection. The Mackinaw / Retriever is there for people who afk mine solo in safe areas.

I run five medium shield drones in my Orca so when we're in a gang I can quickly throw a ~124hp/4s shield rep on anyone who comes under attack. It's not great by itself but if you've got your ship fitted right with adaptive invuls it's not bad. I'm working on getting more leadership skills and shit up so our ships will be more resilient to damage and the mining bonuses will get bigger when we're in a fleet. If we're in high-sec and operating as a group, it'll take a really dedicated gank to get a decently fitted Hulk or Covetor.

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:44 pm #29550

Unfortunately I rigged my Hulk with cargo hold expansions because I used it in a time where suicide ganks happened, but weren't as big a problem as they are today. So it has a nice cargo hold but turned into a bit of a glass cannon.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:50 pm #29551

BARF

You know those cargo rigs don't affect the ore hold, right? Undo that ASAP. Get an ice harvester accelerator rig and some shield rigs in there instead.

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:22 pm #29555

An0n3 wrote:BARF

You know those cargo rigs don't affect the ore hold, right? Undo that ASAP. Get an ice harvester accelerator rig and some shield rigs in there instead.

I did this before the Hulk had a dedicated ore cargo hold. In fact I don't think I've had an active sub since I went to college 4 years ago, I just haven't really had the time to spare.

Kangaraptor · Post by **Kangaraptor** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:20 pm #29569

Mackinaw is what you want unless you're fleet mining with fat haulers and an orca.

Reyouka · Post by **Reyouka** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:51 pm #29574

I'm not specced into mining at all, unless you count mining drones.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:11 pm #29599

My mining skills could be better. I need more mining upgrades skill, and I'm 24days away from Exhumers.

I gots 1.3mil in resource processing altogether.

Compared to like 2.4mil in drones, or 1.8mil in gunnery.

If you like to crunch numbers, currently I'm able to give the following bonuses to people in our mining gang:

12.21% reduction in cycle time for ice harvesters and mining lasers
27.68% longer range on ice harvesters and mining lasers
10% increased yield for mining lasers

...for up to 20 of us at once.

If we're just chasing around hi-sec ores it's not going to amount to a whole lot (though Kernite is spiking in price right now something fierce). If we can get everyone into ice harvesting, or we go shack up with Pasta and start mining the ABC's it'll be a very different story.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:34 pm #29701

Actually that mining laser yield increase is significant, and if we do gang mining with me running ore and you providing boosts we can wipe out an asteroid field in 10 minutes for mad dosh. Its how my old corp funded itself. Ice is good for afking solo but using tin cans scales rapidly once you are in a gang. Yield can be triple the value of ice, especially because ore literally can't go below a certain price due to insurance. Sometimes the ice market spikes but those spikes quickly die down due to how easy it is to afk mine ice. That said mining ore is effort intensive, and there is value in forming a gang to mine ice semi-afk in TS so that newbies can fund themselves while playing some other game.

Another issue is that training to do a tiered orca boost scheme will slow me down on getting more refining skills and more science skills. It is arguably more important to set up a multi-layered boost scheme, as having a good consistent income stream is more important than the sporadic passive income manufacturing gives you AND having refining trained will allow me to make us some standardized modules at a discount, but if anyone else here is secretly skilled to be an orca booster/hauler it would be nice to know.

Also we need to be boosting fleet member's rep with Caldari by running missions in gangs. I can blow through level 1s, 2s, and some 3s, meaning that people could join up with me, grab missions for me to complete, and let me unlock a faction story-line mission for them and compete that too. If people want to fly with me that is good and makes the process a bit faster while letting dedicated combat pilots earn some bounty income, but it is not required.

And for fucks sake do not go into factional warfare unless the corp all agrees on it. Not only is it a great way to permanently destroy a faction rep but it is a great way to invite wardecks.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:02 pm #29709

Afaik you can't layer those boosts. The best addition to a mining fleet that already has an orca and a bunch of exhumers/barges is a freighter or jump freighter.

To give boosts to a fleet you need to be in a booster position, and the current structure defaults to whoever has the highest boost in in any single attribute in the applicable chain of command.

If I'm a wing commander/booster of two squads, and have armored warfare 3 while squad A's booster has armored warfare 4 and squad B's booster has armored warfare 2, squad A will receive the effects of armored warfare 4 (from their own booster, because it's higher than mine) while squad B will receive the effects of armored warfare 3 (from me, because mine is higher than their booster and I'm in the chain of command) but not the effects of armored warfare 4 (because while their skill is higher, that booster is not in their chain of command).

Similarly you can't stack command ships and warfare modules across multiple ships because only the highest bonus will apply to everyone underneath them.

tl;dr multiple orcas doesn't work. We can't both ride around in orcas to double the benefit.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:08 pm #29710

An0n3 wrote:Afaik you can't layer those boosts. The best addition to a mining fleet that already has an orca and a bunch of exhumers/barges is a freighter or jump freighter.

You are right. I herfed. Layering is for getting all the boosts on people who need them without individuals having large training times. Used for combined arms fleets like ours who don't enforce a specific tank style. So that is 20 days of training I won't need to do.

Still though we should consider alternating between ore and ice. Ore is more cash if you micromanage, but Ice is less... intense.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:11 pm #29712

dezzmont wrote:
An0n3 wrote:Afaik you can't layer those boosts. The best addition to a mining fleet that already has an orca and a bunch of exhumers/barges is a freighter or jump freighter.
You are right. I herfed. Layering is for getting all the boosts on people who need them without individuals having large training times. Used for combined arms fleets like ours who don't enforce a specific tank style. So that is 20 days of training I won't need to do.

Still though we should consider alternating between ore and ice. Ore is more cash if you micromanage, but Ice is less... intense.

It all depends on the quantity of people we have mining. In smaller groups ice is better. In larger groups that yield bonus makes a significant enough difference where ore becomes more profitable.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:51 pm #29735

HEY

I need one of you assholes to login and blow me up for reasons. I'll explain when I see you on.

EDIT: Nevermind. Colonic's enthusiasm for blowing up his CEO is duly noted.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:55 pm #29751

An0n3 wrote:
dezzmont wrote:
An0n3 wrote:Afaik you can't layer those boosts. The best addition to a mining fleet that already has an orca and a bunch of exhumers/barges is a freighter or jump freighter.
You are right. I herfed. Layering is for getting all the boosts on people who need them without individuals having large training times. Used for combined arms fleets like ours who don't enforce a specific tank style. So that is 20 days of training I won't need to do.

Still though we should consider alternating between ore and ice. Ore is more cash if you micromanage, but Ice is less... intense.
It all depends on the quantity of people we have mining. In smaller groups ice is better. In larger groups that yield bonus makes a significant enough difference where ore becomes more profitable.

Even in small groups, maybe 4-5 people, ore is better IF you can be very active and disciplined at the screen. You need to have lasers hitting different ore, someone micromanaging jetcans, and need to constantly be aware of if your cycle will be too overkill to be worth cleaning out a 'roid.

Even not doing all of that, and just focusing on not hitting one asteroid with two beams results in about 3 times the profit margin of ice. The main problem is if you sit around for a minute watching a youtube video you probably killed your profit margin from not being properly aligned and missing out on 2 cycles. From what I calculate the main reason mining ore is often seen as unattractive to newbies is that it is way more skill intensive than ice. Getting your first real mining ship out to ice with only a few days worth of skills makes you much more money chipping at veldspar.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:00 pm #29753

An0n3 wrote:HEY

I need one of you assholes to login and blow me up for reasons. I'll explain when I see you on.

EDIT: Nevermind. Colonic's enthusiasm for blowing up his CEO is duly noted.

;_;7

awoxing since 1991

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:12 pm #29763

Hey guys. Considering I run industry and research in NT I could use your help deciding what to research!

Mainly I need to figure out what you guys fly so that I can invest in blueprints for the fittings and ships so I can print them and get us massively discounted gear.

I mainly need to know:

What race you fly.

What weapon(s) you fit: Most races use multiple weapons. Ammar uses drones and or lasers for example.

What tank type you use.

What combat specialties interest you? (Tacklers are popular with small corps because they are easy to fit at low skill points and are disproprotionately deadly for their investment. EWAR is handy for the same reason. Logi is rare and super useful. Also feel free to use this space to describe specialized direct combat roles like sniper and picket specialist. They don't need special skills or ships mostly and knowing probably wont be helpful, but if everyone in the corp wants to be a close range laser blaser or a missile sniper we can work with that to do hilarious things)

What ship classes can you currently fly?

What T2 stuff interests you?

As far as I am aware we mostly have frigate tier Gal and Cal pilots who focus on their race's special weapons, but I could be wrong. This information will also help in us planning combat doctrine and tactics, but its vital for me to know now in order to lay the groundwork of our manufacturing capacity.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:21 pm #29767

I'm Caldari.
I fit Missiles and Drones.
I'm a Shield tanker.
I want to fly a interceptor.
I currently fly both Frigs and Cruisers.
I want to go for a crow and stuff like that.