Little things you learned that are game changing

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Professor Hangar
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Professor Hangar » #316320

Bottom post of the previous page:

What happens when you put potassium into it?
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Dr_bee » #316348

Professor Hangar wrote:What happens when you put potassium into it?
If there is water, it explodes, if there is no water, the janicart explodes the next time someone puts water in it.

also a good prank if you can get to the janicart before it gets filled.
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Anonmare
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Anonmare » #316428

Near as I can tell from code diving, an O2 tank has the same volume (70) as a plasma tank, and both have the same volume as a Plasmaman's internals.

Knowing this, it doesn't make a difference if you use two O2 tanks or two plasma tanks for bomb construction.

As an aside, the small tanks have the following capacities:
The emergency O2 tank has a volume of 3
The extended capacity tanks has a volume of 6
The double emergency tank has a volume of 10

Now, I'm very rusty but I did my best to remember my secondary school physics lesson:

Number of moles= (Atmospheres x Volume in liters) ÷ (Universal gas constant (0.08206) x temperature in kelvin)

I'm going out on a limb here and assuming the tanks are m^3, so 70m^3 would be 70,000 liters.
20 celsius is 293 kelvin.
1013 pascals is 0.0099975326918279 atmospheres.
The universal gas constant is 0.08206

So a full plasma tank would have a pressure of 1013, multiplied by its volume of 70m^3 - divided by the result of multiplying the the temperature by the gas constant (you could probably round it to 0.082).
We're going to simplify it for the sake of efficacy.

(0.0099x70,000)÷(0.082x293)
693÷24.026=
28.8437526013 moles

I *think* this is correct but you'll have to ask a maintainer if I am. My math looks right to me but I'm not 100% sure about it. if it is correct, you should be able to better calculate how many moles you have in your tanks, and the usual constraint to bomb-making is how many moles you can fit into the plasma tank whilst still being hot enough to explode. The O2 is rarely a concern due to cooling allowing you to put an obscene number of moles into an O2 tank.
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Remie Richards
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Remie Richards » #316433

I think we measure volume in moles.
tanks anyway.
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Anonmare
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Anonmare » #316436

I honestly have no idea if that's right or not.
But, I know the steal plasma traitor objective is 28 moles of plasma which is described as a full tank of room temperature plasma and worked with that in mind as my end goal.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Remie Richards » #316439

a few things are done in moles actually.

Humans needing 16 moles of oxy to live,
Plasma Gas showing it's overlay at > 0.5 moles in the turf.

there's more but I'm tired.

that's interesting about the full tank thing.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it just says (full tank) without evidence (Why would it, it's an objective definition but still)

Also fun thing about that objective:

Code: Select all

/datum/objective_item/steal/plasma/check_special_completion(obj/item/weapon/tank/T)
	var/target_amount = text2num(name)
	...
it relies on the fact the objective's name is "28 moles of plasma (full tank)" to get the target amount of 28.
text2num("28 moles of plasma (full tank)") is conveniently just 28, but that's so wack.
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Anonmare
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Anonmare » #316447

I got the volume from the tank defines

Code: Select all

/obj/item/weapon/tank
	name = "tank"
	icon = 'icons/obj/tank.dmi'
	flags = CONDUCT
	slot_flags = SLOT_BACK
	hitsound = 'sound/weapons/smash.ogg'
	pressure_resistance = ONE_ATMOSPHERE * 5
	force = 5
	throwforce = 10
	throw_speed = 1
	throw_range = 4
	actions_types = list(/datum/action/item_action/set_internals)
	armor = list(melee = 0, bullet = 0, laser = 0, energy = 0, bomb = 10, bio = 0, rad = 0, fire = 80, acid = 30)
	var/datum/gas_mixture/air_contents = null
	var/distribute_pressure = ONE_ATMOSPHERE
	var/integrity = 3
var/volume = 70
I assume that, as it is not stated in the large tanks vars, that it is assumed to have a volume of 70 unless stated otherwise

Also I found this website that can do the heavy lifting in the math
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Remie Richards » #316450

yes, but it's 70 ' '
70 What? Elephants?

Which is where this conversation comes from.

I'm sure it's moles though, because I recall "volume" as the var name being bullshit in some way.
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Anonmare
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Anonmare » #316451

I assumed it was m^3 since that's the default standard when you talk about volume. When I was in school, we wrote down volume that way unless the question stated specifically to not. Area was m^2 and perimeter was just m.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Remie Richards » #316454

Yes I agree with you those are defaults.
But again, I swear the variable name was bullshit in some way.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Anonmare » #316457

Well my math checks out against the calculator so I guess I'm right about the volume var (until someone proves me wrong).

It occurs to me that 3/4 of my calculations you can assume to be constant for the purposes of making the plasma component in bomb making - since the tank's volume doesn't change and you should always be aiming to fill the tank to max capacity pressure, and the gas constant never changes. The only thing you're really going to be changing is the temperature so really all you need to figure out is what the lowest temperature is you can have it be whilst still being hot enough to explode.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by TheWulfe » #316815

Environmental Object Damage Thresholds:

Airlocks have a damage threshold of 20+ force to actually be able to bust them down. The main non-traitor/common ways of doing this are the rare Fire Axe, or the more common thrown spear, which has 20 damage (up from the 18 wielded, which does NOT break down doors). The EXCEPTION to this is projectiles/lasers from guns, even if they are below threshold level - will still damage (I think there's a damage penalty, but I have to confirm). This means that buckshot pellets WILL damage airlocks, despite being 12.5 brute each.
(A special note is that once it's busted down into the half-way open state, the airlock is a different object: an airlock assembly. Airlock assemblies have no threshold and can be bashed down by any object with force. Useful in saving time for the thrown-spear method by using it until busted down to assembly state, then just wield-whacking it normally)

All non-locking lockers and crates have no damage threshold and can be bashed open/broken by normal hits, which you can bash through if they're being used a barricade.

Locked Lockers, however, like security lockers and personal lockers of the heads have the same 20+ damage threshold rules as airlocks.

Locked crate's can NOT be damaged normally, and do not do thesholds. They only be damaged/opened by projectile type weapons, obviously the most preferable being lasers since you can recharge.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Screemonster » #316837

Dr_bee wrote:The janitors janicart can hold any chem. So one of the best ways to prank or sabotage it is to drop plasma into it. every time they mop from that point on causes a minor plasma leak! It is a much better prank than just stealing the cart.
I had great fun with this on bay back when reagent paint was still a thing, it was great if the janitor latejoined and you got to his cart before he did
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Anonmare » #316838

Airlock thresholds should probably be 21 to sidestep the spear meme
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Drynwyn
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Drynwyn » #316839

That's also how one breaks out of perma/the gulag very easily. Hit one of the machines until it breaks, producing cables and metal. Hit one of the interior windows until it produces glass. Use the metal to make metal rods. Make spear. Throw at perma door.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by bandit » #316856

The station blueprints contain a guide to the wire colors.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Dr_bee » #316932

TheWulfe wrote:Environmental Object Damage Thresholds:


Locked crate's can NOT be damaged normally, and do not do thesholds. They only be damaged/opened by projectile type weapons, obviously the most preferable being lasers since you can recharge.
The locked crate is easy enough to get around if you are in cargo where most of them are.

emitters are typically the preferred method as you just turn them on and wait instead of having to spend time attacking it.

however emitters ironically come in a locked crate, so outside of stealing from engineering there are a few other methods.

If you are a quartermaster or miner, or somehow have access to lavaland, traveling down to the lava rock and dipping the crate in lava until it catches fire is a sure fire way to open it.

make sure you only DIP the crate, and not keep it in the lava, as it will burn the contents if kept in lava.

If you dont have access to lavaland, or dont want to head down, the best method is using a standard Kinetic Accelerator that miners get. It counts as a projectile weapon and does a decent 20 damage in pressurized air, all it takes is patience.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by tacolizard » #316992

>when dumbheads toolbox doors
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by tacolizard » #316993

a single IED is enough to open the detective's locker, and on box the maint tunnel side of the det's office doesn't use rwalls. this all makes it super easy to get a gun and armor as an assistant
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by XDTM » #317062

bandit wrote:The station blueprints contain a guide to the wire colors.
This is also true for engiborg blueprints, and you can law 2 em if you want to know them easily.

Fun fact: cerulean blueprints (the one use blueprints in xenobio) also have the wire map.
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ManyBones
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by ManyBones » #317129

Remie Richards wrote:yes, but it's 70 ' '
70 What? Elephants?

Which is where this conversation comes from.

I'm sure it's moles though, because I recall "volume" as the var name being bullshit in some way.
70 dm^3 AKA litres. Since the code uses kpa for the ideal gas equation, volume must be in dm^3. Moles are used for everything that would require moles or mass in real life, since the code don't recognize such thing as "mass"
Anonmare wrote:Well my math checks out against the calculator so I guess I'm right about the volume var (until someone proves me wrong).

It occurs to me that 3/4 of my calculations you can assume to be constant for the purposes of making the plasma component in bomb making - since the tank's volume doesn't change and you should always be aiming to fill the tank to max capacity pressure, and the gas constant never changes. The only thing you're really going to be changing is the temperature so really all you need to figure out is what the lowest temperature is you can have it be whilst still being hot enough to explode.
And btw, last week I came with the perfect tank bomb mix. It reached 70/140/280 and I think it could be more with a little more testing. The secret to this god of annihilation it's a little thing that got added somewhat recently. It's not intended but it's not an exploit
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Anonmare » #317136

Could you mean ATMOS resin? I'm not sure how that would work though. I don't think it's plasma glass either.
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ManyBones
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by ManyBones » #317138

No, my friend. The answer is freon, the meme gas. It has some "peculiar qualities". (I could explain it directly, but that would be no fun)
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Anonmare » #317139

Hmm... I think you used freon and heat exchangers to create some supercooled plasma, emptied out a tank, put the supercooled plasma in then put your hot gas in.
Possibly also using the freon heat exchangers to make near absolute zero O2 as well.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by ManyBones » #317140

Nope, the most efficient way to cool gases is heat exchanger pipes in space. But you are not far wrong, think about why freon cools other gases so well. It has to do with some property of matter that applies in real life as well. And try to use that to make freon do the opposite thing it was intended for.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by tacolizard » #317141

you've found a way to use freon to heat things up?
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Drynwyn » #317144

Freon causes things to become COMPRESSSED in addition to causing them to become cool, due to the ideal gas law.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by ManyBones » #317331

The special thing about freon (apart from its freezing effect that only applies when it is simulated in turfs, not in containers) is his specific heat. Oxygen has about 20 "magical units" (since there is no mass in this game), whilst freon has about 2000. This means that freon requires a lot of thermal energy to go up in temperature what means it can store a lot of thermal energy without increasing his volume too much. So we can use this gas as a primer, to ignite the supercooled and supercompressed oxy/plasma mix.
One tank has around 2000 kpa (yes, it's possible) of freon at 5000 K or so, the other tank has 1024 Kpa of the bomb mix 11.8% plasma 88.2% oxygen at 12.7 K. We combine the two tanks with the TTV, the activation device of your liking, and voilà, this little puppy can destroy around half lavaland (it has no bombcap, use it at the center, but beware, it could cause a server crash).
If you have questions about the process or about the why of idem, just ask.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by tacolizard » #317340

how do you get 2000 kpa into a tank?
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Anonmare » #317342

Find some way to heat the gas in the tank after it's in, like placing ignited plasma and oxygen into the tank.

Of course, tanks have a rupture point
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by ManyBones » #317349

Yep, you get some freon at about 5000 K and later you fill the rest of the tank with freon at 10000. You don't want to get the pressure above 3000
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by CPTANT » #318279

I tested this to see if it works conceptually and it does.

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However this test was with 1000Kpa 6736 °C freon and -191°C 88% plasma and 12% oxygen.

I am having trouble getting 2000Kpa in a tank. If I add hot freon to colder freon in a tank it just instantly levels out the temperature and it doesn't go above 1000Kpa

Only thing I can think of is indeed adding burnmix at >100 °C to the tank
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by CPTANT » #318282

This kinda changes my understanding of the explosion code.

I always thought you needed to have cold oxygen. But do you actually only need lots of moles of oxygen?
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Grazyn » #318293

Yes you need lots of moles of oxygen (and plasma), and supercooling the gas is the easiest way to cram all those moles in a small tank. Hot gas -> few moles.

Freon bombs are kinda old anyway, someone taught me how to make them like 2 months ago, it was supposed to be a secret but I guess the cat is out of the bag now. You don't actually need 2000 kpa of hot freon if you manage to superheat it, but you can't use the heat transfer thingy because of its high heat capacity, best way is to just mix a very small amount of freon inside a regular burn mix canister, you let it heat to 90k °C or something and then filter out the superheated freon. A 1013 kpa tank of 60k °C freon linked to a supercooled plasma /o2 mix will be enough to erase lavaland.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by ManyBones » #318376

Grazyn wrote:Yes you need lots of moles of oxygen (and plasma), and supercooling the gas is the easiest way to cram all those moles in a small tank. Hot gas -> few moles.

Freon bombs are kinda old anyway, someone taught me how to make them like 2 months ago, it was supposed to be a secret but I guess the cat is out of the bag now. You don't actually need 2000 kpa of hot freon if you manage to superheat it, but you can't use the heat transfer thingy because of its high heat capacity, best way is to just mix a very small amount of freon inside a regular burn mix canister, you let it heat to 90k °C or something and then filter out the superheated freon. A 1013 kpa tank of 60k °C freon linked to a supercooled plasma /o2 mix will be enough to erase lavaland.
The thing its the hotter the freon the more volume it occupies, that results in less moles in the tank. Heating the freon beyond 6.000K does not provide a better explosion. And strange, I thought I was the discoverer of this method
CPTANT wrote:I tested this to see if it works conceptually and it does.

Image

However this test was with 1000Kpa 6736 °C freon and -191°C 88% plasma and 12% oxygen.

I am having trouble getting 2000Kpa in a tank. If I add hot freon to colder freon in a tank it just instantly levels out the temperature and it doesn't go above 1000Kpa

Only thing I can think of is indeed adding burnmix at >100 °C to the tank
Maybe its the opposite, colder freon to a tank with hot freon, but it should work, i have done it many times. And you should remove the bombcap, that would be a 25/50/100 explosion at least
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Grazyn » #318406

Theoretical should show the actual radius even with the bomb cap on.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by bunny232 » #319244

The Syndi listening outpost(the one in space, not the ruskie dj place) has a safe under the door south from where the op spawns.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Not-Dorsidarf » #319476

Grazyn wrote:Theoretical should show the actual radius even with the bomb cap on.
Just posting to confirm that the theoretical setting on the Tachyometer is explicitly to measure what your bomb would have been sans bombcap
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by CPTANT » #319708

I am still having trouble getting 2000KPa freon into a tank.

The method of mixing hot and cold freon doesn't seem to work at all for me, regardless of the order.

Adding burnmix is impractical as the specific heat of Freon is so high that you barely get any temperature increase at all, unless you throw out a lot of freon. But practically it means freon is better at adding heat than the burnmix so there isnt really a point.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Grazyn » #319711

CPTANT wrote:I am still having trouble getting 2000KPa freon into a tank.

The method of mixing hot and cold freon doesn't seem to work at all for me, regardless of the order.

Adding burnmix is impractical as the specific heat of Freon is so high that you barely get any temperature increase at all, unless you throw out a lot of freon. But practically it means freon is better at adding heat than the burnmix so there isnt really a point.
As I said before, 2000 kPa is overkill and not needed for z-level-wide explosions. As long as you have pure superheated freon in one tank (someone said that >6000 °C are enough) and a supercooled mix of o2 and plasma in the other, you're good with just 1013 kPa of both. Maybe play around with the o2/plasma mix if you already have the hot freon.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by CPTANT » #319713

Grazyn wrote:
CPTANT wrote:I am still having trouble getting 2000KPa freon into a tank.

The method of mixing hot and cold freon doesn't seem to work at all for me, regardless of the order.

Adding burnmix is impractical as the specific heat of Freon is so high that you barely get any temperature increase at all, unless you throw out a lot of freon. But practically it means freon is better at adding heat than the burnmix so there isnt really a point.
As I said before, 2000 kPa is overkill and not needed for z-level-wide explosions. As long as you have pure superheated freon in one tank (someone said that >6000 °C are enough) and a supercooled mix of o2 and plasma in the other, you're good with just 1013 kPa of both. Maybe play around with the o2/plasma mix if you already have the hot freon.
I dont exactly call 10/21/42 a z-level wide explosion.

I hacked in a 5000C 2500KPa freon tank and the explosion went to 21/42/84 with 4K 88%oxygen/12%plasma

Without 2KPa freon cooling down the burnmix to 4K actually produces a smaller explosion.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Grazyn » #319715

Burnmix may be too cold. I know that even regular maxcaps don't work if you cool down the oxygen too much. Try 13K instead, 90% o2 and 10% plasma, and hotter freon, even with a lower pressure.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by CPTANT » #319839

Grazyn wrote:Burnmix may be too cold. I know that even regular maxcaps don't work if you cool down the oxygen too much. Try 13K instead, 90% o2 and 10% plasma, and hotter freon, even with a lower pressure.
Hotter freon just gives you less overall heat in the tank. Anyway burnmix at 13K does the trick indeed.
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Anonmare » #320076

You only need stabilising agent for the initial reaction, it's safe to remove once you're ready.

Also Napalm/CL3/Phlogiston foam grenades are terrifying
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by CPTANT » #320082

Anonmare wrote:You only need stabilising agent for the initial reaction, it's safe to remove once you're ready.

Also Napalm/CL3/Phlogiston foam grenades are terrifying
Its pretty overkill, I find it better to just use CL3 and some lube so people can't escape.
Screemonster wrote:how the fuck are you supposed to RP with a grille
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Anonmare
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Anonmare » #320087

I made those grenades and tested them out on some dummy humans.

They died in ~2 seconds, plus they couldn't escape since foam is slippery. Only way you could survive is with full fire protection, plus the heat was so intense it melts the floor of entire hallways which makes it even harder to escape. The best part is that they're not all that hard to make, the most difficult bit would be getting bluespace beakers - put enough foam in those and you could melt half of the central hallway and everyone in it.

It's better to make your CL3 all at once though, and don't put more chlorine and fluorine in the beakers immediately after making some CL3 as the residual heat will make them react immediately and you'll get set alight.
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ManyBones
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by ManyBones » #320144

Grazyn wrote:Burnmix may be too cold. I know that even regular maxcaps don't work if you cool down the oxygen too much. Try 13K instead, 90% o2 and 10% plasma, and hotter freon, even with a lower pressure.
What this guy said. Don't cool the burn mix too much or plasma won't reach his ideal burning temperature, 1643 K. 13 K is good
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Anonmare
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Anonmare » #320226

You can disarm a chemical grenade being thrown at you with a pair of wirecutters, then use a wrench to remove the payload
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DemonFiren
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by DemonFiren » #320231

If you're really good you can do it while the grenade is in flight.

Another reason to get cooking.
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Anonmare
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by Anonmare » #320232

DemonFiren wrote:If you're really good you can do it while the grenade is in flight.

Another reason to get cooking.
You're better off screwdrivering the grenade to set it to 3 seconds. Most people don't have reactions that fast.
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DemonFiren
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Re: Little things you learned that are game changing

Post by DemonFiren » #320245

Anonmare wrote:
DemonFiren wrote:If you're really good you can do it while the grenade is in flight.

Another reason to get cooking.
You're better off screwdrivering the grenade to set it to 3 seconds. Most people don't have reactions that fast.
the only thing that protects against gitting gud is gitting gudder
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