Addressing the stun meta

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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by danno » #317488

Bottom post of the previous page:

kevinz000 wrote:Also specifically catering for low rp isn't the best
It's better than pretending like we have some kind of plan and continuing to pull the rope both ways the way we are now.
At least if we decide we're low-rp once and for all, we finally have a fucking direction to focus on.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by DemonFiren » #317522

no direction is better than this direction tbh famalam
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by Remie Richards » #317535

TheColdTurtle wrote:The only way to make this shitty game and server good is to fire all the coders and retarded admins and have the code be controlled by one person like CM does. But dumbass ledditors like to say "HEH HE MENTIONED CM THAT MEANS HIS ARGUMENT IS WRONG BECAUSE I SAW A POST ON digg SAYIMG THAT IT IS BAD HEH"

t. Someone who has not read this shitty thread at all and just posted because
CM's code isn't controlled by one person??
Wtf are you talking about.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by MisterPerson » #317540

The best idea I came up with on this front is real simple. I don't even know if it's a good idea or not but hey!

You don't drop items just from being knocked down/stunned. You still can't move, but you can act normally otherwise. This includes pulling out items from your backpack, attacking, shooting guns, etc.

Obviously this has implications for security (greyshirts can beat you while you handcuff them, maybe make getting attacked in melee stop the handcuffing action?).
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by Professor Hangar » #317544

That's gonna kinda make arresting hard, given every greytider is going to be spamming Disarm like mad.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by MisterPerson » #317545

Professor Hangar wrote:That's gonna kinda make arresting hard, given every greytider is going to be spamming Disarm like mad.
Shout STOP RESISTING as you harmbaton them to death.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by lumipharon » #317741

Not dropping items (or atleast a lower chance or something) when you get stunned, would actually be a fairly big deal.
Getting disarmed/stunned and then murdered/stunned more with your own weapon happens A LOT.

Still being able to fight/operate items normally while stunned would probably be too much though.
It would also hilariously mean that if you click fast enough/have better ping, you could cuff the officer trying to arrest you before they can do the same to you.

On a marginally related note, I am still waiting for trying to disarming someone armed with an e-sword to have a high chance to fail/cut your own hand off.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by calzilla1 » #318127

TheColdTurtle wrote:This post was made by oranges who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.

can someone please tell me if it is worth it to open this post? Because I am thinking that it contributes nothing due to the person who made it.......
Nope
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by Anonmare » #318157

I thought you couldn't attack or disamr someone if you were on the ground? Like if you had both your legs cut off. You can move but you can't harm or disarm
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by PKPenguin321 » #318399

Anonmare wrote:I thought you couldn't attack or disamr someone if you were on the ground? Like if you had both your legs cut off. You can move but you can't harm or disarm
No, you can still attack from the ground, try resting and disarming somebody. You can't hold things when on the ground, however, meaning you can't really attack with weapons from the ground (exceptions exist, such as things you physically can't drop like chainsaw arms).
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by CPTANT » #323634

Hey look another stun thread that led to nothing.

What a surprise.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by Remie Richards » #323651

They will always lead to nothing.
There is no solution to this.
All proposed solutions nobody want's to work on.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by CPTANT » #323668

Remie Richards wrote:They will always lead to nothing.
There is no solution to this.
All proposed solutions nobody want's to work on.

Except the 2 shot taser was a perfectly fine change that could have been balanced just fine.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by Remie Richards » #323669

That's just like, your opinion, man
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by lzimann » #323681

The 2 taser shot was really bad and pretty much plain stupid honestly.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by CPTANT » #323807

lzimann wrote:The 2 taser shot was really bad and pretty much plain stupid honestly.
Thats like zero constructive.

You think a weapon that stuns you after 2 shots is fundamentally unusable?
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by ShadowDimentio » #323809

Yes when the entire game for the past forever has been designed off the taser being really good.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by D&B » #323810

Maybe if we had a rapid fire burst weapon that stunned when shots are landed like disablers would be fun to test out, since the extra shots per trigger press would make it seem like the chance to hit is higher.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by ShadowDimentio » #323811

That's just dual wielding disablers
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by CPTANT » #323814

ShadowDimentio wrote:Yes when the entire game for the past forever has been designed off the taser being really good.
And you are too scared to just take that first step and balance the rest after how it plays out?
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by ShadowDimentio » #323816

Why yes I'm very afraid of shattering the balance of the game because like 5 idiots on the forum can't deal with the tazer as it is, especially when you JUST ADMITTED you have NO IDEA how it would pan out
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-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
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"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
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"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
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"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
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"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
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">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
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"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
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"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by CPTANT » #323819

ShadowDimentio wrote:Why yes I'm very afraid of shattering the balance of the game because like 5 idiots on the forum can't deal with the tazer as it is, especially when you JUST ADMITTED you have NO IDEA how it would pan out
I did not say I had no Idea how it would play out. I have a pretty good idea of how it will. It will reduce the potency of the stun meta,but only slightly. Lethals will be somewhat more competitive in a firefight. Security might need some slight buff in another area, for example in their laser. Effectiveness change on fleeing targets will be minimal because against those disablers are usually preferred anyway.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by ChangelingRain » #323822

Here's a simple thing; make getting stunned by stamina damage remove most or all of it, because see previous reasons why in the thread.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by CPTANT » #323825

ChangelingRain wrote:Here's a simple thing; make getting stunned by stamina damage remove most or all of it, because see previous reasons why in the thread.
Yes this is a very good idea.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by Cobby » #324095

When the freeze is over remind me to do ^

I plan on removing 3/4ths of the stam damage you have after you've been knocked down.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by CPTANT » #324161

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:When the freeze is over remind me to do ^

I plan on removing 3/4ths of the stam damage you have after you've been knocked down.
Personally I would go with half, but just see what you think is best.

The way stamina stuns would also need to be reworked though, currently you just stay stunned until you heal the stamina damage. But if half the damage is reduced after you get up things like getting 101 stamina damage would be weird.

I think Stamina should apply a fixed stun (7 seconds or so) after you reach 100 stamina (or combined) damage.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by Cobby » #324246

CPTANT wrote:
ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:When the freeze is over remind me to do ^

I plan on removing 3/4ths of the stam damage you have after you've been knocked down.
Personally I would go with half, but just see what you think is best.

The way stamina stuns would also need to be reworked though, currently you just stay stunned until you heal the stamina damage. But if half the damage is reduced after you get up things like getting 101 stamina damage would be weird.

I think Stamina should apply a fixed stun (7 seconds or so) after you reach 100 stamina (or combined) damage.
The stun is just a 10(100 ticks?) stun so it doesn't base the stun length off stamina damage. It just looks that way because stamina passively heals and the knockdown can be reapplied if you keep passing the threshold.

The point at which you fall over also is based on your health as well so lower health = less stamina damage needed to fall over.

What I didn't find out last night [well tbh I didn't check] was if stamina damage was clamped to 100 or if you could go over.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by AnonymousNow » #324272

There's been various attempts over the years to fix the stun meta, and nothing has succeeded. Disablers put a sizeable dent in it, but then in the end only really contributed to more stuns.

The only way I can think of to actually achieve the aim of killing the stun meta is to throw ideas at the wall and see what sticks. Currently the only one I have is this - flat-out remove all stuns and replace them with more disabler-like functions. Or shorten stuns. Or change stuns to something like the new flash (before the revert).

I don't know, really. At this point, I don't think stuns can be fixed, at not without some radical change.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by CPTANT » #324276

AnonymousNow wrote:There's been various attempts over the years to fix the stun meta, and nothing has succeeded. Disablers put a sizeable dent in it, but then in the end only really contributed to more stuns.

The only way I can think of to actually achieve the aim of killing the stun meta is to throw ideas at the wall and see what sticks. Currently the only one I have is this - flat-out remove all stuns and replace them with more disabler-like functions. Or shorten stuns. Or change stuns to something like the new flash (before the revert).

I don't know, really. At this point, I don't think stuns can be fixed, at not without some radical change.

The solution is a not shit stamina system.

What objection to stamina based stuns is there when the slowdown from stamina damage is reduced and stamina is halved after the stun from reaching 100?
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #324513


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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by CPTANT » #324526

Well that is definitely a huge step in the wrong direction.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by Gun Hog » #324528

May the freeze never end such that it may protect us from PRs like that. The less viable you make stuns, the more desired you make the ULTIMATE stun: Death.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by CPTANT » #324532

Gun Hog wrote:May the freeze never end such that it may protect us from PRs like that. The less viable you make stuns, the more desired you make the ULTIMATE stun: Death.
Not really since stuns equal death in most situations now and actually critting someone is harder than applying 1 taser shot.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Post by Cobby » #324748

Gun Hog wrote:May the freeze never end such that it may protect us from PRs like that. The less viable you make stuns, the more desired you make the ULTIMATE stun: Death.
Forever stun is a fate worse than death tho
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