Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

General SS13 Chat
CPTANT
 
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
Byond Username: CPTANT

Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby CPTANT » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:56 pm #329844

I have always had the feeling that the way ss13 handles round ending somewhat flawed.

Rounds that have little to no events drag on and on because there is no reason to call a shuttle. Action filled rounds on the other hand end quickly because damage to the station or crew "justifies" calling the shuttle, while these are the most fun situations.

Shuttle calling discourages any type of repairs since it is easier to just call the shuttle anyway.

Some gamemodes really encourage fast calling to "win" the round. From a victory condition perspective there is literally no reason not to call the shuttle as soon as a single cultist is found.

I have always thought that a time or goal based system would lead to better situations in the game.

I don't want to change this in ss13. I just want to discuss what you think about it.
Screemonster wrote:how the fuck are you supposed to RP with a grille



User avatar
Rustledjimm
 
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:07 pm
Byond Username: Rustledjimm

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Rustledjimm » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:02 pm #329847

I think this is always being brought up. I've played this game on and off for 7 years nearly. When there was just Goon station. This was being discussed even back then.


Personally imo? The crew should be punished in some manner for calling the shuttle when there is no need. The crew should always choose to endeavour when possible but yes, most aren't up to the task/too boring to do so. I cannot see how causing any restrictions would solve this however, there is already a time limit to when it can be called and sometimes the station really IS fucked up that badly that quickly.
So uhh, I'm an admin. Please leave feedback! Oops took me a while to strike that through.

Will Baker
Suzu Suzaku
TBC
Spoiler:
Image

Personal Ban Length Record: 2.1024e+006 minutes

User avatar
Remie Richards
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:11 pm
Location: England, UK, Earth, Sol, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Known Universe
Byond Username: CrimsonVision

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Remie Richards » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:05 pm #329848

How could you possibly punish them for pressing the "game is over" button, because now the game is over there's nothing to punish.
And if you intend to stop that button from working once pressed like that, bad news, people will just alt-f4/hit the cross/suicide/ghost
私は完璧

User avatar
Rustledjimm
 
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:07 pm
Byond Username: Rustledjimm

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Rustledjimm » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:43 pm #329944

I think you might've misunderstood what I meant. I don't think there should be a rule IC or OOC to actually punish early calls. I just wish the collective playstyle of the server was geared towards punishing the heads (if they are the ones who called early 4noraisin because 'I'm bored') IC. The crew should fight back an early 4noraisin call because well, they want their paycheck no? It's not a matter of me wanting set rules in place more just a personal wish that playstyles were slightly different.

Sorry for the confusion.
So uhh, I'm an admin. Please leave feedback! Oops took me a while to strike that through.

Will Baker
Suzu Suzaku
TBC
Spoiler:
Image

Personal Ban Length Record: 2.1024e+006 minutes

CPTANT
 
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
Byond Username: CPTANT

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby CPTANT » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:14 pm #329968

Rustledjimm wrote:I think you might've misunderstood what I meant. I don't think there should be a rule IC or OOC to actually punish early calls. I just wish the collective playstyle of the server was geared towards punishing the heads (if they are the ones who called early 4noraisin because 'I'm bored') IC. The crew should fight back an early 4noraisin call because well, they want their paycheck no? It's not a matter of me wanting set rules in place more just a personal wish that playstyles were slightly different.

Sorry for the confusion.


That only amplifies the problem of the shuttle not getting called in boring rounds.
Screemonster wrote:how the fuck are you supposed to RP with a grille

User avatar
InsaneHyena
 
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:13 pm
Location: Russia
Byond Username: InsaneHyena
Github Username: InsaneHyena

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby InsaneHyena » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:15 pm #329969

Yes. In fact, it's so well known, Kor actually designs planet station (not that it will ever be finished) around those criticisms.
Bring back papercult.

Image

User avatar
Rustledjimm
 
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:07 pm
Byond Username: Rustledjimm

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Rustledjimm » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:33 pm #329976

I actually find extended to be the most fun rounds. I can do my job/my own thing without being killed, blown up, succ'd etc.

Like today me and a few built the 17 emitters SM engine, it was fun. More fun than I've had in a long time even as an antag.

Sure I had to recall the shuttle like 5 times but the Captain was being a cunt anyway.
So uhh, I'm an admin. Please leave feedback! Oops took me a while to strike that through.

Will Baker
Suzu Suzaku
TBC
Spoiler:
Image

Personal Ban Length Record: 2.1024e+006 minutes

CPTANT
 
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
Byond Username: CPTANT

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby CPTANT » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:46 pm #330004

Rustledjimm wrote:I actually find extended to be the most fun rounds. I can do my job/my own thing without being killed, blown up, succ'd etc.

Like today me and a few built the 17 emitters SM engine, it was fun. More fun than I've had in a long time even as an antag.

Sure I had to recall the shuttle like 5 times but the Captain was being a cunt anyway.


To be honest if you like building things without antags why don't you just go play a game that is focussed on building your own things, like minecraft, factorio or space engineers?
Screemonster wrote:how the fuck are you supposed to RP with a grille

User avatar
The Clowns Pocket
 
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 4:56 am

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby The Clowns Pocket » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:54 pm #330027

yes
Image
Image

User avatar
Rustledjimm
 
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:07 pm
Byond Username: Rustledjimm

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Rustledjimm » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:30 am #330103

CPTANT wrote:
To be honest if you like building things without antags why don't you just go play a game that is focussed on building your own things, like minecraft, factorio or space engineers?



This thread is basically both of us going 'YOU DON'T PLAY THE WAY I PLAY REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE'.
So uhh, I'm an admin. Please leave feedback! Oops took me a while to strike that through.

Will Baker
Suzu Suzaku
TBC
Spoiler:
Image

Personal Ban Length Record: 2.1024e+006 minutes

User avatar
Not-Dorsidarf
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm
Location: We're all going on an, admin holiday
Byond Username: Dorsidwarf

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:14 pm #330270

The problem is that if you make the round impossible to end early, you must also remove situations that cause the station to become utterly uninhabitable before the round is endable.

Nobody likes it when some guy reading off their notes fast-makes six maxcaps and vaporizes medbay, the bridge, escape, engineering EVA and a main corridors, then you have to wait for the shuttle to "refuel" and *then* you have to wait 10-15 minutes once that point is reached for the round to end despite the fact that there is no point in continuing at that point.

You can't have powerful early game tools like SM singuloes or toxin maxcaps (or whatever the latest way to kill 60% of the station population and make the station untraversavle and unusable) AND mandatory minimum round length increases.
Image
Image

CPTANT
 
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
Byond Username: CPTANT

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby CPTANT » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:25 pm #330276

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:The problem is that if you make the round impossible to end early, you must also remove situations that cause the station to become utterly uninhabitable before the round is endable.

Nobody likes it when some guy reading off their notes fast-makes six maxcaps and vaporizes medbay, the bridge, escape, engineering EVA and a main corridors, then you have to wait for the shuttle to "refuel" and *then* you have to wait 10-15 minutes once that point is reached for the round to end despite the fact that there is no point in continuing at that point.

You can't have powerful early game tools like SM singuloes or toxin maxcaps (or whatever the latest way to kill 60% of the station population and make the station untraversavle and unusable) AND mandatory minimum round length increases.


Or you actually try to repair shit and survive in a hostile environment......
Screemonster wrote:how the fuck are you supposed to RP with a grille

User avatar
Rustledjimm
 
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:07 pm
Byond Username: Rustledjimm

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Rustledjimm » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:34 pm #330279

Trying to repair shit and survive is a lot of fun imo. There is a reason Engineering is one of my favourite departments.

But several max caps all at once or a singulo?
Nope, bye bye station that shit ain't repairable. Even I will admit shuttle needs to be called asap in those situations.
So uhh, I'm an admin. Please leave feedback! Oops took me a while to strike that through.

Will Baker
Suzu Suzaku
TBC
Spoiler:
Image

Personal Ban Length Record: 2.1024e+006 minutes

User avatar
Not-Dorsidarf
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm
Location: We're all going on an, admin holiday
Byond Username: Dorsidwarf

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:49 pm #330282

Yeah when the engineers are mostly all dead because bombed while they sat around waiting to have a purpose and EVA is a cloud of vapour, "trying to repair shit" isn't possible for 90% of the crew, so they get to sit in whatever air pocket they may have for 20 minutes then they either die trying to get to the shuttle or don't. I'm sure the problem here is that they aren't sitting down bitching on Tcomms (if commas are still in one piece) for long enough, let's extend the wasted time!
Image
Image

User avatar
InsaneHyena
 
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:13 pm
Location: Russia
Byond Username: InsaneHyena
Github Username: InsaneHyena

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby InsaneHyena » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:53 pm #330284

>Repairing anything
>When you can just reset the station in 15 minutes
>And also try your luck at grief lottery
Bring back papercult.

Image

User avatar
CitrusGender
In-Game Game Master
 
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:34 pm
Byond Username: CitrusGender
Github Username: CitrusGender

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby CitrusGender » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:42 pm #330289

I feel like, as referenced in the "stupid reasons for calling the shuttle" thread, this really is an opportunity for admins to take the role of centcom in this situation. Depending on the severity of the reason, the admin in charge could ask for more information in reports or outright deny the shuttle call if it's ridiculous enough. Though, unfortunately, that calls for admins to do more work. Still, I think that perhaps sending in supply shuttles with materials to fix any sort of engineering problem (caused by bombs, wizards, etc) would go a long way to extending rounds. I would have to imagine that centcom is probably mad about having to evacuate so many people that they probably would crack down on the rising cost of emergency shuttle fuel anyways.

edit: The fact that people are bored (ergo, calling the shuttle) can only really be dealt with through creative means. This can really only be done through players or admins creating creative roleplaying situations, or the community itself getting better at roleplay.
Image
thanks to ninjanomnom for making my signature

User avatar
MisterPerson
Board Moderator
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:26 pm
Byond Username: MisterPerson

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby MisterPerson » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:23 pm #330314

I think people are looking at this backwards. If a bomb/singulo/whatever has torn half the station apart and created an unfun situation, forcing them to keep playing isn't going to make the situation fun somehow. The game is round-based; it doesn't matter if the round ends in 10 minutes or 10 hours. Everything is transient. If that discourages you from rebuilding, that's fair, but that's also on you. And if that fact discourages pretty much everyone, maybe rebuilding isn't even a realistic option at all. And if that's the case, then we really need to rethink how much damage is caused in general.

That being said, tying ending the round to a voluntary "emergency" exit is completely idiotic design, especially if we're going to have extended in the mix. There should absolutely be a victory condition for the crew that makes all antags redtext.
I code for the code project and moderate the code sections of the forums.

Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter

CPTANT
 
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
Byond Username: CPTANT

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby CPTANT » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:32 pm #330317

Actually it would be pretty interesting if completing station goals (or something similar) would let the crew "win".

That way crew have something to work to and antagonists get something to sabotage.
Screemonster wrote:how the fuck are you supposed to RP with a grille

User avatar
naltronix
 
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:33 pm
Location: inside of a singularity, send help
Byond Username: Naltronix

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby naltronix » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:46 pm #330331

how about if the shuttle is called and recalled over and over the comms terminals either disable the function of calling or blow up?
I play as Asia Maclagan on Bagil, I dont play on Sybil often.

memes lie unseen down in ze spoiler
Spoiler:
god i do love diving into the fourms and finding gems like this
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
bandit
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:35 pm
Byond Username: Bgobandit

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby bandit » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:51 pm #330332

CitrusGender wrote:I feel like, as referenced in the "stupid reasons for calling the shuttle" thread, this really is an opportunity for admins to take the role of centcom in this situation. Depending on the severity of the reason, the admin in charge could ask for more information in reports or outright deny the shuttle call if it's ridiculous enough. Though, unfortunately, that calls for admins to do more work. Still, I think that perhaps sending in supply shuttles with materials to fix any sort of engineering problem (caused by bombs, wizards, etc) would go a long way to extending rounds. I would have to imagine that centcom is probably mad about having to evacuate so many people that they probably would crack down on the rising cost of emergency shuttle fuel anyways.


I do this from time to time but players always bitch about it. *shrug*
"I don't see any difference between ERP and rape." -- erro

admin feedback pls

User avatar
Rustledjimm
 
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:07 pm
Byond Username: Rustledjimm

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Rustledjimm » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:39 pm #330354

I like the idea of station goals causing automatic red-text for antags. The station goals since they were brought in are rarely even touched but it could create a nice new dynamic for crew vs antags. If the crew actually start getting close to completion of a station goal the antags need to find a way to sabotage it if they have completed their objectives. It gives the crew a focus to work towards, something which some players seem to require to not be shitters, just as the antags have.
So uhh, I'm an admin. Please leave feedback! Oops took me a while to strike that through.

Will Baker
Suzu Suzaku
TBC
Spoiler:
Image

Personal Ban Length Record: 2.1024e+006 minutes

User avatar
AnonymousNow
 
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:41 pm
Location: Neptune
Byond Username: AnonymousNow

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby AnonymousNow » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:23 pm #330928

Rustledjimm wrote:I like the idea of station goals causing automatic red-text for antags. The station goals since they were brought in are rarely even touched but it could create a nice new dynamic for crew vs antags. If the crew actually start getting close to completion of a station goal the antags need to find a way to sabotage it if they have completed their objectives. It gives the crew a focus to work towards, something which some players seem to require to not be shitters, just as the antags have.


The interesting thing I can immediately think of is that this would make shuttlerushing an antagonistic behaviour, so the crew would be discouraging it and become suspicious of anyone doing it.

I'd also like to point out that some of my most favourite rounds of all time involved struggling my way through a damaged, depowered station for an hour with little to no resources available to me, gathering allies, not being sure if any of them were the bomber, avoiding fires and monsters in the shadows etc. That cannot happen with our current culture.
Hornygranny wrote:It's not your codebase. It's our codebase. You can imply soft power as much as you want, but you don't have it. Division between the server and project is absolute. I'm not interested in reading dezzmont platitudes for the billionth time and won't be checking back in this thread.


Image

Image

Spoiler:
~Simplified for the sake of Wyzack's delicate feelings~
Fuck anti-roleplay suggestions and fuck Bay.

Xenomorphs a shit.

User avatar
Kjolstet
 
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:47 am
Byond Username: Kjolstet

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Kjolstet » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:31 pm #330929

because why repair the station or actually beat the traitors/lings/cult/whatever when you can just call the shuttle and roll for antag again
there is an extremely large amount of people that pretty much just suicide if they don't get traitor rather than doing their job, making the game fun with a gimmick, or [gasp] actually roleplaying instead of memeing in netspeak

(i will admit i am guilty of this sometimes)
Robert E.O Speedwagon (as James Fury): fuck botany powergaming

OOC: Dennyb: bring back trampling so I can buckle m96855y8 v8cm pipes and stomp them to death
OOC: Dennyb: cat on keyboard

OOC: Bloxerbot: Be a changeling in Science. Scientist is a threat. Luckily its just me and him in maint when the rad storm hits. Nows my chance.
OOC: Bloxerbot: Blind and Mute Sting Scientist in maint. Fucker has a suicide bomb.
OOC: Bloxerbot: Be instantly vaporised.
OOC: Obscolene: >expecting bredden not to have a suicide bomb

OOC: Hatterhat: >code blue ERT
OOC: Metafive: Isn't Code Blue cardiac arrest?
OOC: Metafive: What, do they all come in with epinepherine and defibrilators?

onleavedontatme
 
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
Byond Username: KorPhaeron

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby onleavedontatme » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:36 pm #330931

AnonymousNow wrote:
Rustledjimm wrote:I like the idea of station goals causing automatic red-text for antags. The station goals since they were brought in are rarely even touched but it could create a nice new dynamic for crew vs antags. If the crew actually start getting close to completion of a station goal the antags need to find a way to sabotage it if they have completed their objectives. It gives the crew a focus to work towards, something which some players seem to require to not be shitters, just as the antags have.


The interesting thing I can immediately think of is that this would make shuttlerushing an antagonistic behaviour, so the crew would be discouraging it and become suspicious of anyone doing it.

I'd also like to point out that some of my most favourite rounds of all time involved struggling my way through a damaged, depowered station for an hour with little to no resources available to me, gathering allies, not being sure if any of them were the bomber, avoiding fires and monsters in the shadows etc. That cannot happen with our current culture.


The people currently shuttlerushing are sec/captain, who can't be antags, and good luck "discouraging" the people with all the guns.

User avatar
AnonymousNow
 
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:41 pm
Location: Neptune
Byond Username: AnonymousNow

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby AnonymousNow » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:47 pm #330932

Yes, that would be currently; it would likely change if this idea was introduced.

And the agency of the people with guns in the game is likely an issue worth discussing elsewhere.
Hornygranny wrote:It's not your codebase. It's our codebase. You can imply soft power as much as you want, but you don't have it. Division between the server and project is absolute. I'm not interested in reading dezzmont platitudes for the billionth time and won't be checking back in this thread.


Image

Image

Spoiler:
~Simplified for the sake of Wyzack's delicate feelings~
Fuck anti-roleplay suggestions and fuck Bay.

Xenomorphs a shit.

User avatar
Rustledjimm
 
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:07 pm
Byond Username: Rustledjimm

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Rustledjimm » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:21 pm #331021

I would say security are shuttlerushing for a reason.

For security rounds can be a battle of attrition. The longer the round goes on for often the more likely an officer is to die and permanently. The loss of a single good officer is a huge blow to an already not huge security force. Also the longer the round goes on for the more likely it is for an antag to have completed their objective.

However, say if the station goal is completed then the crew win automatically? Security have a goal other than just catching antags. Protect the goal. Protect the crew building the goal and flow of resources to it. I think this could possibly, I do say possibly as we have no idea how the server population would react, change how security acts. Instead of just being a GIT DAT ANTAG and chasing them dangerously through maintenance they can set themselves up in an area the goal is being constructed, have officers in locations where resources come from (science, cargo etc.) to ensure flow of resources to the goal.

I think it's an idea worth looking into no?
So uhh, I'm an admin. Please leave feedback! Oops took me a while to strike that through.

Will Baker
Suzu Suzaku
TBC
Spoiler:
Image

Personal Ban Length Record: 2.1024e+006 minutes

Yobih
 
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:15 am
Byond Username: Yobihodazine

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Yobih » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:06 am #331459

STATION OBJECTIVE GREEN TEXT ROUND ENDING 2017

User avatar
Munchlax
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:25 am
Byond Username: Lobstercake

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Munchlax » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:28 pm #332022

no

User avatar
Vekter
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
Location: Fucking around with the engine.
Byond Username: Vekter

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Vekter » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:12 pm #332161

I feel like it is, but I also feel like it's kind of an intrinsic part of the game as a whole now. There are ways to mitigate the way it's used, but in general, I think it's a necessary evil.
Image
Image
Image


Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you

User avatar
FantasticFwoosh
Confined to the shed
 
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 11:25 pm
Byond Username: FantasticFwoosh

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby FantasticFwoosh » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:19 pm #342427

Look at it this way, a prison that does not allow people to leave (contrary to being a detainment center) is literally a concentration camp.

If you don't let us leave bored admins will work us to the bone and kill us all to end the round with events of increasing severity.


Spoiler:
Image
Image

User avatar
AnonymousNow
 
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:41 pm
Location: Neptune
Byond Username: AnonymousNow

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby AnonymousNow » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:58 pm #342436

Warning: long as fuck.

Spoiler:
You're on a cruise ship.

This is a state-of-the-art ship, filled with activities and entertainment. There's places to eat, pools to swim in, climbing walls, rappels and ziplines, a shopping centre, bars and clubs, bingo, archery, spa treatments... the works.

The first night on the cruise ship, having done one or two of the activities during the day, you know there's a show on. You don't know what show, but you go to see it anyway, at one of the many stages within this massive vessel.

It turns out to be an all-singing, all dancing cabaret. It's an enjoyable evening, and you go back to your cabin to rest.

The next day, however, something is wrong.

There's still all these activities going on - your fellow passengers are enjoying them, many for the first time, many going back to things they enjoyed before. Plenty of people have got creative, doing workshops or playing hide-and-seek on the massive vessel.

You're bored.

You don't know if there's a show on tonight, though there is an active team of ship staff who can arrange such entertainment, and likely have. Even so, there's the occasional impromptu event that comes up spontaneously, as people in the pools start playing tag or water polo, football gives way to volleyball, there's a race going on to see who can get up the climbing wall the fastest etc. And of course, there's the destinations on the horizon, which you'll reach in but a matter of time thanks to the efforts of the ship crew.

Despite all this going on, you look around at everything and think "There's nothing I want to do". And here's where things start to fall apart.

You decide that you want to leave. The sooner you leave, the sooner you can get onto another cruise ship and enjoy the first night's act again. You contact the helmsman, who is compelled to obey you when you tell him to sail back to your original port due to a badly mishandled approach to authority. The ship turns around, and many passengers complain, but those of a weaker disposition who feel a little bit seasick show their support. Many of the passengers try to contact the helmsman to get him to keep going the right way, but due to poorly written company regulations, he doesn't have the authority - you have to speak to someone with appropriate authority, like the captain, the ship's chief of medicine, the head engineer, the lead security officer etc. Quite likely, these people are busy doing other things, and rely on each other to give the order to go forwards. It doesn't happen.

Halfway home, the helmsman promptly tells the passengers that, due to company regulations, they are now locked on course back to their original dock. There are more complaints, including that the ship was ridiculously easy to turn around, but horrendously difficult to course correct. The helmsman shrugs and says it's beyond his power now.

You are thrilled. Soon, you'll be on another ship, just like this one, only its first-night show will be up and running again. Secretly, you are hoping that this time, they'll hire you to be in that show - you did apply for this one, which is one of the reasons why you knew there'd be a show on the first night, though without being hired for it you didn't know which show would be on.

The ship comes into port, and the passengers mill around irritably, talking about how they'd like to get back to their cruising soon, when an order comes over the PA for everyone to leave the ship, due to health and safety regulations. There's outrage as people demand their time aboard, bewilderment as people wonder how they got into this situation, upset at the fact that, even if money isn't a factor, many of the people there simply don't have the time to start another cruise, as you wish to do.

You don't care. You actually do get asked to do the performance that night - it's a cabaret again, very similar to the one you saw the other night, only this time you're one of the performers. After the cabaret, someone else tells the helmsman to turn the ship around, and he does so. Turns out there's at least a dozen people with your mindset for every two hundred or so normal passengers, and the ships are always turned around the second morning - or sometimes, the first night. Sometimes late the first afternoon, even.

Sometimes there's no show on, and people are encouraged to take part in one of the many other activities onboard. Often, the ship's crew will scramble together an impromtu show, which usually turns out to be interesting and imaginative. Sometimes the ship gets turned around because of a case of food poisoning, or because some drunken bridesmaid at the wedding reception it's hosting has started a fight with the head chef. One time, you demanded the ship be turned around because there was a powercut in one of the halls that made it sort of dark.

The crew have been sitting on their ideas for shows for the second night. They're wild and varied and radical - circus shows, high-flying acts, clowns, poetry, performance art, opera, musicals, burlesque, strip shows, the works. But although they occasionally get to do one or two of these shows, the golden age of when they'd have a show every night in their supposed-to-be three day cruises has long since passed.

One day, you prang your foot against the barrier overlooking the sea as you wait for the first night's show. Your toes sting, but not badly. You think about visiting the infirmary to have them checked just in case - they could probably handle your problem very quickly, and give you painkillers to boot - but instead, you tell the helmsman to turn the ship around.

You feel proud of yourself.
Last edited by AnonymousNow on Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Hornygranny wrote:It's not your codebase. It's our codebase. You can imply soft power as much as you want, but you don't have it. Division between the server and project is absolute. I'm not interested in reading dezzmont platitudes for the billionth time and won't be checking back in this thread.


Image

Image

Spoiler:
~Simplified for the sake of Wyzack's delicate feelings~
Fuck anti-roleplay suggestions and fuck Bay.

Xenomorphs a shit.

User avatar
D&B
 
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:23 am
Location: *teleports behind you*
Byond Username: Repukan

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby D&B » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:46 pm #342452

That's a lot of words to badly compare two things.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.

User avatar
AnonymousNow
 
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:41 pm
Location: Neptune
Byond Username: AnonymousNow

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby AnonymousNow » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:01 am #342467

Got a better one, Pubby?
Hornygranny wrote:It's not your codebase. It's our codebase. You can imply soft power as much as you want, but you don't have it. Division between the server and project is absolute. I'm not interested in reading dezzmont platitudes for the billionth time and won't be checking back in this thread.


Image

Image

Spoiler:
~Simplified for the sake of Wyzack's delicate feelings~
Fuck anti-roleplay suggestions and fuck Bay.

Xenomorphs a shit.

User avatar
XDTM
Github User
 
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:38 pm
Location: XDTM
Byond Username: XDTM
Github Username: XDTM

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby XDTM » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:19 am #342469

AnonymousNow wrote:The ship comes into port, and the passengers mill around irritably, talking about how they'd like to get back to their cruising soon, when an order comes over the PA for everyone to leave the ship, due to health and safety regulations. There's outrage as people demand their time aboard, bewilderment as people wonder how they got into this situation, upset at the fact that, even if money isn't a factor, many of the people there simply don't have the time to start another cruise, as you wish to do.


This is a pretty big downside of shuttlecalling as a mechanic - if you have limited time, say, one hour and a half, you might find yourself on station with the shuttle called at 30 minutes. You aren't going to get that rainbow slime this round, or you might, but won't enjoy it; then it's 15 minutes until endgame. And after that, you don't have time to pursue that objective into another round.
a.k.a. Duke Hayka

Coder of golems, virology, hallucinations, traumas, nanites, and a bunch of miscellaneous stuff.

User avatar
John_Oxford
Github User
 
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:19 am
Location: The United States of America
Byond Username: John Oxford
Github Username: JohnOxford

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby John_Oxford » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:35 am #342472

make it incredibly easy to repair the station, increase progression speed and speed of the game in general, then remove the escape shuttle. restart round vote is automatically entered every hour, and the round will not end unless the vote passes.

the vote can pass with or without admins on, and it will automatically do it regardless of circumstance.

make construction, repairs, ect extremely fast and with one or two steps maximum, add more content revolving around station integrity (shields, auto cannons that can shoot down syndicate interceptors, breach detectors that seal off breached areas automatically, repair drones that automatically seek and repair to stabilize hull breaches)

make department progression extremely fast, RnD can be maxed out with combat shotguns in 20 minutes with moderate experience, all cargo items are half price, security has equipment closer to a PMC than mall cops. engineering has a synthetizer that takes air and or plasma and magically turns it into materials. they also start out with a huge fuck ton of materials in storage along with rare engine types, along with two engines of the same type.



then in order to make this all make sense and not make everyone bored.

game types can now be mixed, and ran at the same time.

so you can now have a blob, xenos, and nuke ops at the same time.


they'll be in brackets, so there will be a gap between events that have smaller antags, like ninjas and borers that aren't exactly super harmful to the crew.

in between these brackets, the crew will repair any damage done to the station.



done. get oxford'd
Bill Rowe - Used for everything // SYS-OP - AI // SYS-USR - Cyborg
https://gyazo.com/07cbe7219ba24366c1f655ad6c56a524

Signature Content:
Spoiler:
Offical In-Game rank:
Image

Image

Image

Image

TechnoAlchemist wrote:you where always right john, you where always right

>implying the admin conspiracy wasen't just confirmed by a admin.
see, i told you motherfuckers.

NikNakFlak wrote:this isn't a game you can't just post whenever you want


I don't even know what the fuck tg is.

Image

Image

User avatar
Rustledjimm
 
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:07 pm
Byond Username: Rustledjimm

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Rustledjimm » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:30 am #342513

One thing I've always wondered is why air-tight bulkheads (like firelocks) aren't a thing. If there was a breach on a space station they'd lock the area down airtight so more air doesn't escape. However in SS13 people just... leave the entire main hallways open to a breach.

An air alarm registering too low pressure should lock the area down.
So uhh, I'm an admin. Please leave feedback! Oops took me a while to strike that through.

Will Baker
Suzu Suzaku
TBC
Spoiler:
Image

Personal Ban Length Record: 2.1024e+006 minutes

User avatar
AnonymousNow
 
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:41 pm
Location: Neptune
Byond Username: AnonymousNow

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby AnonymousNow » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:12 pm #342577

Rustledjimm wrote:One thing I've always wondered is why air-tight bulkheads (like firelocks) aren't a thing. If there was a breach on a space station they'd lock the area down airtight so more air doesn't escape. However in SS13 people just... leave the entire main hallways open to a breach.

An air alarm registering too low pressure should lock the area down.


Nanotrasen has an artificial level of stupidity in regards to things like this, as part of the game's design and intent; if things were too secure, too safe, they could become stale. The elements of danger being a thing to work against are important, but currently there doesn't seem to be much of an impetus to work against them when the shuttle is already on its way.
Hornygranny wrote:It's not your codebase. It's our codebase. You can imply soft power as much as you want, but you don't have it. Division between the server and project is absolute. I'm not interested in reading dezzmont platitudes for the billionth time and won't be checking back in this thread.


Image

Image

Spoiler:
~Simplified for the sake of Wyzack's delicate feelings~
Fuck anti-roleplay suggestions and fuck Bay.

Xenomorphs a shit.

User avatar
Gamarr
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:10 pm
Byond Username: Gamarr

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Gamarr » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:50 am #343188

It's long noticed to be intentional and have shit design in the map/station but all this gets is damaged that spreads everywhere too fast, takes forever to repair, and promptly makes not many want to bother.

Things are stale for other, more numerous reasons, rather than the station being made of paper. Chicken and egg perhaps: the shuttle is on the way because the damage is always too severe and because of windows fucking everywhere with no actual damage compartmentalization that works, the station hemorrhages air like a sieve.

User avatar
RandomMarine
Github User
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:50 am
Byond Username: RandomMarine
Github Username: RandomMarine

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby RandomMarine » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:31 am #343201

It's really easy to patch up the station thanks to all the powercreep RCDs received over the years, not to mention tools like the experimental welder. Problem is air drain over a long round will eventually make the station unlivable unless someone goes through all the effort to set up a lavaland siphon farm.

But as easy as basic repairs are, it's still easier to press the zero-consquence reset button with the added bonus of getting another antag roll.

User avatar
The Clowns Pocket
 
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 4:56 am

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby The Clowns Pocket » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:37 am #343228

I think the answer is to have some way to encourage station goals. Not the station goals we have, just ... something. Its 5:35 and I have classes so I'm a bit groggy and wanted to put my 2 cents in
Image
Image

User avatar
Qbopper
 
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:34 pm
Location: Canada
Byond Username: Qbopper
Github Username: Qbopper

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Qbopper » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:34 pm #343274

The Clowns Pocket wrote:I think the answer is to have some way to encourage station goals. Not the station goals we have, just ... something. Its 5:35 and I have classes so I'm a bit groggy and wanted to put my 2 cents in


this is literally the only post you've ever made that had some substance and I agree with and it might be because you posted it while tired
Limey wrote:its too late.

User avatar
DiamondSentinel
 
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 2:11 pm
Byond Username: DiamondSentinel

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby DiamondSentinel » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:20 pm #343460

There's a Catch-22, though. HRP servers actually have shuttle calling essentially disabled (admins can and will recall the shuttle in most cases), so the rounds drag on far after most players have died. This is attempted to be remedied by a "crew transfer" every hour after the first which ends the round without the station being destroyed. Unfortunately, this doesn't solve the fact that rounds are fucking long.

However, this server, for example, has shuttle calls happen far too early. I understand that oftentimes, it's the best way to "win" the round, by leaving the station when antags show up. But we've gotten to the point where engineers don't really have a job besides making sure that nobody fucks up SM crystal, and setting up solars. I agree that we should attempt to keep the rounds going a little bit longer, or at least dissuade trigger happy captains from calling immediately.

User avatar
Qbopper
 
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:34 pm
Location: Canada
Byond Username: Qbopper
Github Username: Qbopper

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Qbopper » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:40 pm #343488

i think it's a combo of most people not finding engineering fun and everyone being absurdly trigger happy to reroll for antag

i have no idea how to fix either of those problems
Limey wrote:its too late.

User avatar
DiamondSentinel
 
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 2:11 pm
Byond Username: DiamondSentinel

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby DiamondSentinel » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:44 pm #343492

Qbopper wrote:i think it's a combo of most people not finding engineering fun and everyone being absurdly trigger happy to reroll for antag

i have no idea how to fix either of those problems

The engineering is harder to fix. Maybe have the station in more disrepair at roundstart, so if nobody does engineering, it makes it nearly impossible to get things done, although that might not help anyways. I personally find engineering pretty fun, as long as I get new stuff to build with from science.

As for the antag reroll, either make extended come up more often to try and stop rerolls (as in, they have a higher chance to get an extended round than another antag round), or just stop developing antags besides fixing bugs. If antags stop getting more fun tools than the rest of the station, then people will care less about getting them.

User avatar
Qbopper
 
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:34 pm
Location: Canada
Byond Username: Qbopper
Github Username: Qbopper

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Qbopper » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:44 pm #343532

DiamondSentinel wrote:As for the antag reroll, either make extended come up more often to try and stop rerolls (as in, they have a higher chance to get an extended round than another antag round), or just stop developing antags besides fixing bugs. If antags stop getting more fun tools than the rest of the station, then people will care less about getting them.


this is my wet dream what the fuck

realistically, though. the majority of players seem to come here for that sort of gameplay, so it would alienate a lot of people to make such a radical change
Limey wrote:its too late.

User avatar
DemonFiren
 
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
Byond Username: DemonFiren

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby DemonFiren » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:46 pm #343534

alienate them so i can play again
Image
Image
Image
ImageImageImageImageImage

non-lizard things:
Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
Steelpoint
Github User
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:37 pm
Location: The Armoury
Byond Username: Steelpoint
Github Username: Steelpoint

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby Steelpoint » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:10 am #343642

One way to approach this could be to utterly remove the whole concept of the escape ship.

The reasons why are a moot point, out of range, thrown forward in time, major war going on, etc. The point is that the crew are isolated and alone.

At this point you have semi-random station goals that are major tasks unto themselves that would require the entire crew to coooperate to accomplish, a teleported, ship, comms array, etc. Finishing the goal would end the round.

You then increase the ambient threat to the station, regular meteor strikes, radioation storms, monster attacks, etc.

Finally you have a end game event that occurs if the crew have yet to finish the goal, or the antagonists have yet to end the round. Could be a NPC invasion or the station being blown up. Something to drive the round forward and act as a major threat to avoid.
Image

CPTANT
 
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
Byond Username: CPTANT

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby CPTANT » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:49 am #343663

Steelpoint wrote:One way to approach this could be to utterly remove the whole concept of the escape ship.

The reasons why are a moot point, out of range, thrown forward in time, major war going on, etc. The point is that the crew are isolated and alone.

At this point you have semi-random station goals that are major tasks unto themselves that would require the entire crew to coooperate to accomplish, a teleported, ship, comms array, etc. Finishing the goal would end the round.

You then increase the ambient threat to the station, regular meteor strikes, radioation storms, monster attacks, etc.

Finally you have a end game event that occurs if the crew have yet to finish the goal, or the antagonists have yet to end the round. Could be a NPC invasion or the station being blown up. Something to drive the round forward and act as a major threat to avoid.


Yeah these are basically the principles I am using for a little ss13 inspired game I started making in unity.
Screemonster wrote:how the fuck are you supposed to RP with a grille

User avatar
DemonFiren
 
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
Byond Username: DemonFiren

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby DemonFiren » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:58 am #343667

Not like it matters because it won't ever get finished.
Image
Image
Image
ImageImageImageImageImage

non-lizard things:
Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
DiamondSentinel
 
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 2:11 pm
Byond Username: DiamondSentinel

Re: Do you think shuttle calling is a SS13 design flaw?

Postby DiamondSentinel » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:01 pm #343729

Qbopper wrote:
DiamondSentinel wrote:As for the antag reroll, either make extended come up more often to try and stop rerolls (as in, they have a higher chance to get an extended round than another antag round), or just stop developing antags besides fixing bugs. If antags stop getting more fun tools than the rest of the station, then people will care less about getting them.


this is my wet dream what the fuck

realistically, though. the majority of players seem to come here for that sort of gameplay, so it would alienate a lot of people to make such a radical change

Believe me. I love the ideas too.

My point with both of my suggestions is just that there's not really a realistic change we can make to the game without getting a new playerbase.

However, with the playerbase we have, I don't think we'll ever have trouble keeping players. People will keep coming back because it's the familiar, even if it starts to become less fun. Nightmares and new Clock Cult (to say nothing of the players in-game) are horrible, but I'm still playing on the server, because it's familiar.

Next

Return to General Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot]