[Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Collide
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- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:00 pm
- Byond Username: ChemicalRascal
[Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Collide
Byond account and character name: ChemicalRascal, Drinks-The-Beer
Banning admin: Dorsidwarf
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Chemistry
Ban reason and length: "Blew a large hole in central hallway with a suicide grenade in some kind of failed attempt to get access to botany to retrieve a chem dispenser, claimed that multiple other people were lying in ahelps about casualties/the damage in ahelps. Chemists are allowed to fight botanists who thieve their things so that they can do their job, not to give them an excuse to destroy the station. This jobban will be lifted in 9840 minutes."
Time ban was placed (including time zone): ~1530 UTC, 2018-01-22
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Bagil
Your side of the story:
(Y'know, I'm starting to think that my account name is rather unfortunate.)
A botanist decided to enter chemistry and acquire a chem dispenser just after round-start. As a chemist, I was present, and the Captain was present incidentally. I denied the botanist, but he opted to take the dispenser regardless. I informed him that I would retaliate before he left, the Captain warned the botanist that I would probably kill him (though that wasn't the intention on my part).
In order to execute my epic quest, I used two black powder grenades as, effectively, blasting charges, in order to get into botany in an intentionally intimidating manner, while putting botany out of commission for a while. The first grenade was placed inside the botany doorway, but by the time I returned with the second, the hole had been repaired. Unfortunately, I killed myself with the second grenade, which was placed at the botany table. As a head, I observed a lack of any other corpses around the hole, as the captain quickly patched the damage.
Why you think you should be unbanned:
Dorsidwarf seems to have based their ban on the insistence that I blew a 4x4 hole in a hallway and killed a botanist (who apparently died by suffocation next to the hole) -- at least, that's what was communicated to me through ahelps.
Firstly, black powder grenades do not create 4x4 holes in hallways, or, at least, mine don't, and in this instance it certainly didn't. We're talking about a single 100u blackpowder bottle here, heated up with another bottle of 100u, 1000K water. As far as I know, you can't create a "4x4 hullbreaching bomb", as Dors called it, with black powder.
Secondly, there wasn't a dead botanist around the hole. There wasn't even time for one to suffocate. Maybe a botanist died, but it certainly wasn't either of my grenades that caused that.
To compound this, Dors stated during the start of the next round that the Captain gave the botanist permission to take the chem dispenser, which simply wasn't the case. I believe, thus, that Dors was lied to by the player of one of the botanists.
Is going straight to black powder grenades a little over-the-top? Yeah, next time I'll probably be more subtle. Maybe neurotoxin, smoke, and just waltz in or whatever, I don't know. But in this instance, from my viewpoint, it looks like the ban was informed by things that simply aren't true and didn't happen.
Banning admin: Dorsidwarf
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Chemistry
Ban reason and length: "Blew a large hole in central hallway with a suicide grenade in some kind of failed attempt to get access to botany to retrieve a chem dispenser, claimed that multiple other people were lying in ahelps about casualties/the damage in ahelps. Chemists are allowed to fight botanists who thieve their things so that they can do their job, not to give them an excuse to destroy the station. This jobban will be lifted in 9840 minutes."
Time ban was placed (including time zone): ~1530 UTC, 2018-01-22
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Bagil
Your side of the story:
(Y'know, I'm starting to think that my account name is rather unfortunate.)
A botanist decided to enter chemistry and acquire a chem dispenser just after round-start. As a chemist, I was present, and the Captain was present incidentally. I denied the botanist, but he opted to take the dispenser regardless. I informed him that I would retaliate before he left, the Captain warned the botanist that I would probably kill him (though that wasn't the intention on my part).
In order to execute my epic quest, I used two black powder grenades as, effectively, blasting charges, in order to get into botany in an intentionally intimidating manner, while putting botany out of commission for a while. The first grenade was placed inside the botany doorway, but by the time I returned with the second, the hole had been repaired. Unfortunately, I killed myself with the second grenade, which was placed at the botany table. As a head, I observed a lack of any other corpses around the hole, as the captain quickly patched the damage.
Why you think you should be unbanned:
Dorsidwarf seems to have based their ban on the insistence that I blew a 4x4 hole in a hallway and killed a botanist (who apparently died by suffocation next to the hole) -- at least, that's what was communicated to me through ahelps.
Firstly, black powder grenades do not create 4x4 holes in hallways, or, at least, mine don't, and in this instance it certainly didn't. We're talking about a single 100u blackpowder bottle here, heated up with another bottle of 100u, 1000K water. As far as I know, you can't create a "4x4 hullbreaching bomb", as Dors called it, with black powder.
Secondly, there wasn't a dead botanist around the hole. There wasn't even time for one to suffocate. Maybe a botanist died, but it certainly wasn't either of my grenades that caused that.
To compound this, Dors stated during the start of the next round that the Captain gave the botanist permission to take the chem dispenser, which simply wasn't the case. I believe, thus, that Dors was lied to by the player of one of the botanists.
Is going straight to black powder grenades a little over-the-top? Yeah, next time I'll probably be more subtle. Maybe neurotoxin, smoke, and just waltz in or whatever, I don't know. But in this instance, from my viewpoint, it looks like the ban was informed by things that simply aren't true and didn't happen.
- cedarbridge
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
- Byond Username: Cedarbridge
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
A 100u bottle of black powder and a 100u beaker of 1000k water in a grenade casing does this, actually:ChemicalRascal wrote: Firstly, black powder grenades do not create 4x4 holes in hallways, or, at least, mine don't, and in this instance it certainly didn't. We're talking about a single 100u blackpowder bottle here, heated up with another bottle of 100u, 1000K water. As far as I know, you can't create a "4x4 hullbreaching bomb", as Dors called it, with black powder.
For reference, that's:
Code: Select all
ADMIN LOG: Explosion with size (1, 3, 6, 0) in area
- Stickymayhem
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Stickymayhem
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
I was in the round and had to pass the hole multiple times. The damage was as bad as dorsidwarf described but dampened slightly by its proximity to the walls around botany.
I'm general I think chemical revenge on thieving botanists can be appropriate, but only if they were really awful like directly fighting you for the dispenser or trashing chemistry significantly. I didn't really see any of that this round.
I'm general I think chemical revenge on thieving botanists can be appropriate, but only if they were really awful like directly fighting you for the dispenser or trashing chemistry significantly. I didn't really see any of that this round.
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
- Limski
- Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:07 pm
- Byond Username: Limski
- Location: Israel
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
Hello, I was HoS that round!
I walked by medbay and vaguely remember the captain giving the botanist permission to take the chem dispenser,however after glancing at the logs that doesn't seem to be the case, unless I'm bad at reading logs which is probably more likely.
The round ID is (I assume) 82368 if the admins wish to logdive
Here is a filtered game.txt log from the public logs that only shows Jeremopolis(The botanist probably), ChemicalRascal(Chemist) and Damous(The captain probably) from the beginning of their feud to the point where the chemist dies from his second chemical grenade
I walked by medbay and vaguely remember the captain giving the botanist permission to take the chem dispenser,however after glancing at the logs that doesn't seem to be the case, unless I'm bad at reading logs which is probably more likely.
The round ID is (I assume) 82368 if the admins wish to logdive
Here is a filtered game.txt log from the public logs that only shows Jeremopolis(The botanist probably), ChemicalRascal(Chemist) and Damous(The captain probably) from the beginning of their feud to the point where the chemist dies from his second chemical grenade
Spoiler:
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- Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:11 pm
- Byond Username: Zawax
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
I was in botany when the first grenade exploded and it blew a really small hole.
- Not-Dorsidarf
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm
- Byond Username: Dorsidwarf
- Location: We're all going on an, admin holiday
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
I'm personally of the opinion that you shouldnt be blowing minibomb++-sized holes in a major throughfare in order to try and get a stolen machine back. You're a chemist, you have the absolute most options for making a thief's life hell of any job in the game (And thermite to let you go through any walls you please), and I don't think its appropriate that you should jump to the single most destructive, set it off in the hallway, and then try to tell me that the two unrelated witnesses were conspiring to make you look bad in ahelp.
Unless someone finds that I've missed some details regarding the situation, I will not personally be lifting this one-week job-ban
Unless someone finds that I've missed some details regarding the situation, I will not personally be lifting this one-week job-ban
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
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- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:00 pm
- Byond Username: ChemicalRascal
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
I'm sorry, but then there must have been further damage from someone else, then. I watched the cap (Damous, I guess) patch that damage quick-smart. I'm pretty sure it wasn't overly dampened by walls -- again, it was on their hall-facing table, there just aren't the walls around the thing to do that.Stickymayhem wrote:I was in the round and had to pass the hole multiple times. The damage was as bad as dorsidwarf described but dampened slightly by its proximity to the walls around botany.
I'm general I think chemical revenge on thieving botanists can be appropriate, but only if they were really awful like directly fighting you for the dispenser or trashing chemistry significantly. I didn't really see any of that this round.
Yeah, that's 1,3,6. Not 4, *, *. Or even 2, *, *.cedarbridge wrote:A 100u bottle of black powder and a 100u beaker of 1000k water in a grenade casing does this, actually:ChemicalRascal wrote: Firstly, black powder grenades do not create 4x4 holes in hallways, or, at least, mine don't, and in this instance it certainly didn't. We're talking about a single 100u blackpowder bottle here, heated up with another bottle of 100u, 1000K water. As far as I know, you can't create a "4x4 hullbreaching bomb", as Dors called it, with black powder.
<snipped image>
For reference, that's:Code: Select all
ADMIN LOG: Explosion with size (1, 3, 6, 0) in area
First of all, I didn't tell you that two unrelated witnesses were conspiring to make me look bad. I only know of one third-party who ahelped you, the engineer whom I don't know the name of, and you never actually told me what they said. I don't think they're conspiring with anyone, and it's not possible for me to think so, because I have no idea what they told you. And even if I did, the idea is beyond silly.Not-Dorsidarf wrote:I'm personally of the opinion that you shouldnt be blowing minibomb++-sized holes in a major throughfare in order to try and get a stolen machine back. You're a chemist, you have the absolute most options for making a thief's life hell of any job in the game (And thermite to let you go through any walls you please), and I don't think its appropriate that you should jump to the single most destructive, set it off in the hallway, and then try to tell me that the two unrelated witnesses were conspiring to make you look bad in ahelp.
Unless someone finds that I've missed some details regarding the situation, I will not personally be lifting this one-week job-ban
And yes, like I said, it was probably over-the-top, but they knew it was coming, the captain warned the guy that I was probably going to kill him, and it was on a table, not the thoroughfare itself. I wouldn't do it again, but you're making it sound like I set these off outside the HOP line or something. The inconvenience to third parties was absolutely minimal.
Finally, once again, I'm pretty damn sure the only person who was harmed here was myself. You made it pretty clear in those ahelps that you think I killed someone, but once again, that simply didn't happen.
- cedarbridge
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
- Byond Username: Cedarbridge
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
Its also a 5x5 hull breach.ChemicalRascal wrote:Yeah, that's 1,3,6. Not 4, *, *. Or even 2, *, *.cedarbridge wrote:A 100u bottle of black powder and a 100u beaker of 1000k water in a grenade casing does this, actually:ChemicalRascal wrote: Firstly, black powder grenades do not create 4x4 holes in hallways, or, at least, mine don't, and in this instance it certainly didn't. We're talking about a single 100u blackpowder bottle here, heated up with another bottle of 100u, 1000K water. As far as I know, you can't create a "4x4 hullbreaching bomb", as Dors called it, with black powder.
<snipped image>
For reference, that's:Code: Select all
ADMIN LOG: Explosion with size (1, 3, 6, 0) in area
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- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:00 pm
- Byond Username: ChemicalRascal
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
I dunno what to tell you, cedar, it's very distinctly only 1 devastation.
- iamgoofball
- Github User
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:50 pm
- Byond Username: Iamgoofball
- Github Username: Iamgoofball
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
yeah, codewise that log doesnt add up with the story
the 1st number is the heavy impact(floor-> spess/sometimes lattice), the 2nd number is medium(floor->plating, MAYBE spess, low chance tho), 3rd is light(floor->scorched floor, MAYBE plating, low chance tho)
the 1st number is the heavy impact(floor-> spess/sometimes lattice), the 2nd number is medium(floor->plating, MAYBE spess, low chance tho), 3rd is light(floor->scorched floor, MAYBE plating, low chance tho)
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- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:00 pm
- Byond Username: ChemicalRascal
- imblyings
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:42 pm
- Byond Username: Ausops
- Location: >using suit sensors
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
Are we confused about the bomb numbers and what it might have looked in game- eg the breach was 4 wide in total just not a completely wiped 4x4 hole?
The patched, dusty, trimmed, feathered mantle of evil +13.
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- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:00 pm
- Byond Username: ChemicalRascal
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
There isn't much room for confusion, a 1,3,6 is a 1,3,6.
- imblyings
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:42 pm
- Byond Username: Ausops
- Location: >using suit sensors
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
You say that but the number of posts itt suggest otherwise, let's wait for dorsi to post
The patched, dusty, trimmed, feathered mantle of evil +13.
- iamgoofball
- Github User
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:50 pm
- Byond Username: Iamgoofball
- Github Username: Iamgoofball
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
i'm going to stand by what chemical said
let me go set off a 1,3,6 locally for proof, 1 minute
let me go set off a 1,3,6 locally for proof, 1 minute
- cedarbridge
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
- Byond Username: Cedarbridge
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
I already did it. That image I posted is the source of the adminlog for the associated blast. You can even see my lizard arm there from where the blast apparently took it off from about 8 tiles away. That 1,3,6 created that 5x5 hole. That was the point. I recreated the grenade he said he used and posted a picture of the results sans any walls that could have possibly existed wherever he tossed the grenade/bomb.iamgoofball wrote:i'm going to stand by what chemical said
let me go set off a 1,3,6 locally for proof, 1 minute
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- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:00 pm
- Byond Username: ChemicalRascal
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
Are we looking at the same image? Your arm is two tiles away, for starters. Regardless, that's substantially larger than what I experienced, and regardless I'd be more inclined to believe the coder. Maybe you just got lucky on a number of floor->lattice rolls?
- cedarbridge
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
- Byond Username: Cedarbridge
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
The arm is, the body isn't. The rest of the body is entirely off screen and the arm was pulled over by atmos. That's neither here nor there. The fact is that a 1,3,x by definition has a blast radius of 5x5 any of which (but at least one of which) will punch to space. In this case about 70% of it did. In your specific case I'd need a time machine to go back and look but even with our randomization code for blasts its unlikely that your blast was any smaller by any appreciable amount.ChemicalRascal wrote:Are we looking at the same image? Your arm is two tiles away, for starters. Regardless, that's substantially larger than what I experienced, and regardless I'd be more inclined to believe the coder. Maybe you just got lucky on a number of floor->lattice rolls?
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- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:00 pm
- Byond Username: ChemicalRascal
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
That directly conflicts with what Goof said, though.
- iamgoofball
- Github User
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:50 pm
- Byond Username: Iamgoofball
- Github Username: Iamgoofball
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
made the boom booms:
https://file.house/7Qyt.webm
https://file.house/7Qyt.webm
- oranges
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
- Byond Username: Optimumtact
- Github Username: optimumtact
- Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
A explosion with severity 2 or higher is enough to potentially expose a plating to space/leave a lattice behind, so a 1,3,6 has the ability to open a 4x4 range to space, with the core tile always being completely scraped away and replaced with base turf, usually space.
The pick weight is 75% weighted towards a severity 2 explosion scraping the tile away completely
Here is the exact code for reference - https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... oor.dm#L61
The pick weight is 75% weighted towards a severity 2 explosion scraping the tile away completely
Here is the exact code for reference - https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... oor.dm#L61
Last edited by oranges on Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:28 am, edited 3 times in total.
- Rustledjimm
- Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:07 pm
- Byond Username: Rustledjimm
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
Dorsi has already said his part on this, ausops has requested we wait to hear from him again. Until then there's little else to discuss.
So uhh, I'm an admin. Please leave feedback! Oops took me a while to strike that through.
Will Baker
Suzu Suzaku
TBC
Personal Ban Length Record: 2.1024e+006 minutes
Will Baker
Suzu Suzaku
TBC
Spoiler:
- imblyings
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:42 pm
- Byond Username: Ausops
- Location: >using suit sensors
Re: [Dorsidwarf] ChemicalRascal - Botany and Chemistry Colli
im going to lift, it seems a 4x4 partial breach isnt too bad but really the onus is on any explosive user to make sure it hits exactly where it is needed without collateral damage please
The patched, dusty, trimmed, feathered mantle of evil +13.
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