Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

For feedback on the game code and design. Feedback on server rules and playstyle belong in Policy Discussion.
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Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Dax Dupont » #411549

While it's not enabled on the servers yet, it will be soon.

This thread will serve as a central point for feedback and ideas.

Currently planned:
VR Snowdin and Syndicate Trainer (includes IDs and other outfit changes)
Raging Mages VR
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Anonmare » #411562

I think one of the most useful and likely easiest use of VR is to create training programs, probably best used for new players who don't know how to make custom servers.

Like a security combat trainer, an atmospherics trainer or an engine set-up trainer for people to learn how to do those things in a way that won't impact the round in a negative manner.

And of course antagonist simulators for people to mess around with those abilities and equipment in preparation for when they do roll those antags.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Fatal » #411563

Atmos trainer and engine trainer, for sure

Pretty tiring to see the SM explode so much due to incompetence

Also a trainer for the singulo and tesla would be nice, a lot of the new players have no clue what to do with them

Edit: A telecomms trainer, like, people who know how telecomms works and how to fix it are rare
Last edited by Fatal on Sat May 19, 2018 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by onleavedontatme » #411565

Suggestions to recreate all aspects of SS13 as a videogame within a videogame because the first layer of the game is taken so seriously is either super funny or super tragic and I'm not sure which.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by onleavedontatme » #411568

Players complaining whenever their sprites turned sideways until the well meaning admins did their best to stamp out the grief and violence, leaving the players bored and clamouring for a new area of the game in which they may freely turn each others sprites sideways
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Wyzack » #411569

Let players be vr admins in game so they can ban people who don't escalate properly in vr, and then we can do this all again when someone implements vvr in a month
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by captain sawrge » #411574

absolutely dont have trainers because it completely ruins the learning experience and fun that comes from fucking up

just make it replacement away missions and maybe a big vr battle arena
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by onleavedontatme » #411580

I think even VR away missions or arenas ultimately miss the point of SS13 as well. You lose out on the narrative, creativity, "consequences" etc and just kill things.

May as well go play another videogame if you want on demand slices of content with instant respawn and loadouts.

And if they become popular they will be harmful in the same way away missions were, with half the crew just checking out of the round if they didn't get antag.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by onleavedontatme » #411581

I guess it is too late now for it to be fair to make big demands about the nature of VR in SS13 but I'd have preferred it be something like the Matrix or Megaman Battle Network where you plug to cyberworld to accomplish things in the real one (like hacking machines or stealing the PDA logs or whatever) so that its still tied to the overall world and story of the round.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Dax Dupont » #411584

Kor wrote:I guess it is too late now for it to be fair to make big demands about the nature of VR in SS13 but I'd have preferred it be something like the Matrix or Megaman Battle Network where you plug to cyberworld to accomplish things in the real one (like hacking machines or stealing the PDA logs or whatever) so that its still tied to the overall world and story of the round.
It sat dormant for years and I do something with it and people complain.

It's more to enable the combat/violence in EXCESS, allowing people to do things they can't constantly do. I know I don't roll with wizard enabled because I don't want the pressure of having 30 people watch me in deadchat, I'd love to do some raging mages bullshit in the VR arena though.

Not only that, not all of the missions are gonna be combat, Snowdin really isn't.

There's 5 roundstart sleepers, that's hardly gonna put a dent in the 40-70+ players the servers have on average. If 5 is too much we can always delete 2. Also Omega only has 2.

I am deffo looking for other suggestions too, the idea is to revive away missions as something that doesn't completely derail the round. Hopefully get other people to contribute too, nobody really made away missions in such a long time except for snowdin, but then it got disabled and MMM kinda shitcanned all his other remakes he planned.

Arguably the murderdome and syndicate VR trainer were low hanging fruit since I am not good at mapping and murderdome is just a fancy box with guns and the syndicate VR trainer is the old centcomAway mission with modifications to be mostly indestructible.

I've had people nagging me constantly to run VR events and get the VR system up and running, so I'd say the players like it.

If you want to add things that have real world consequence or really neat maps then be the change you want to be and do it.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Dax Dupont » #411585

Also for the love of god couldn't you start fighting against this stuff before I spent like 10 hours on this shit
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Anonmare » #411586

I did say I would like to see VR as Shadowrun-style Matrix hacking but I also knew that it would be a massive rework that would be beyond most people's capability, and would be a balance nightmare too. I mean, you'd need new ways to secure areas from VR tampering, some way for security to be security deckers against syndicate hackers, IC, firewalls and so on.


If nothing else, programs like these can be a fun diversion and a way for traitors to murder people like with the holodeck. I suppose if you really wanted to, you could add diskettes that add different programs to sleepers, some of which might be illegal/hard-to-get and give users that successfully go through them some mind-based advantages.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Mickyan » #411588

I think training/combat programs are a great way to help people learn/get used to mechanics they wouldn't otherwise be able to freely experiment with in a real round but I see potential in the way VR works to also be used in other ways that can benefit the round.

Instead of being virtual (not included in the holodeck vr sleepers, separate sleepers somewhere near the gateway), away missions could be you remote piloting a clone/android/whatever and by reaching the end of the dungeon you will be able to enable the station's gateway and physically reach the other side for the loot or whatever. By limiting the amount of sleepers you won't have the entire crew attempting to do the mission at once, and by disabling respawning then the mission will naturally fail for the round once everyone is dead.

Similarly, departments such as engineering could have a sleeper or two connected to a repair drone that can be remotely controlled, security could have a scouting/bomb disposal robot, and so on.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Lumbermancer » #411590

The more complex this is, the more it will detract from "Real life", and the more its existence will be questionable.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Rustledjimm » #411592

Personally Kor I think you're just being quite pessimistic when it comes to how players will react to this. If players are having fun and asking for it we should at least try it out. I think the training simulators sound very interesting, often players will rarely experiment or test things because if they fuck up it means sitting out the rest of the round for 30, 40, 50 minutes. Or a few players rarely get to try out combat too often.

But perhaps there should be some form of a downside to using the VR sleeper to prevent people staying in them the entire shift/round. You should be able to be easily killed while inside a VR sleeper etc.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Karp » #411596

The issue kor is trying to say is that it's going to heavily detract from the game as it seems like it would just be gateway missions but with respawns enabled or a training sim that may as well be booting up the code locally, you aren't really playing the game and it takes players away from being able to have in round impacts
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Dax Dupont » #411597

Rustledjimm wrote:Personally Kor I think you're just being quite pessimistic when it comes to how players will react to this. If players are having fun and asking for it we should at least try it out. I think the training simulators sound very interesting, often players will rarely experiment or test things because if they fuck up it means sitting out the rest of the round for 30, 40, 50 minutes. Or a few players rarely get to try out combat too often.

But perhaps there should be some form of a downside to using the VR sleeper to prevent people staying in them the entire shift/round. You should be able to be easily killed while inside a VR sleeper etc.
You can emag VR sleepers, also the person never /physically/ leaves the station.

You can literally just open the VR sleeper and pull someone out. Either by clicking it or using a crowbar.
Karp wrote:The issue kor is trying to say is that it's going to heavily detract from the game as it seems like it would just be gateway missions but with respawns enabled or a training sim that may as well be booting up the code locally, you aren't really playing the game and it takes players away from being able to have in round impacts
5 sleepers, multiplayer missions and people can be taken out of VR easily.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Shadowflame909 » #411641

Kor wrote:I think even VR away missions or arenas ultimately miss the point of SS13 as well. You lose out on the narrative, creativity, "consequences" etc and just kill things.

May as well go play another videogame if you want on demand slices of content with instant respawn and loadouts.

And if they become popular they will be harmful in the same way away missions were, with half the crew just checking out of the round if they didn't get antag.
I think this is more of a good thing than a bad thing. Who cares if the same round start suiciders who would instead suicide if they didn't get antagonist would just make hog the VR machines? It'll cause more trouble for them if others want to use it. Hell, might even cause them to be sent on the way out. Also, there's this sort of paranoia culture around ss13 when experimenting and stuff. That's why security can't just shotgun suspected lings to death and watch over there body. There's always that underlying theme of "Bwoink, why did you do that? Enjoy your admin remark for being shitcurity"

So, to sum it up. It'll cause people who grief from being burnt out onto the jobs to vent with another system and not actually harming anyone's actual gameplay. It'll force the round start suiciders into some interesting scenarios. Maybe during rounds with war ops, it'll make them actually get involved? It'll also help with the paranoia factor of "if you mess up to prepare for a ban" sort of sense that players get whenever they try to experiment onto a ss13 round. It's a training simulator, a grief/burn-out outlet. That I believe will make rounds last longer, as the "stubbed my toe" players can hop into VR. It'll make rounds cleaner, and it'll prop up the roleplaying levels of /tg/ station as a whole. The ones not in the virtual reality machine will be focusing on the well being of there station. Won't they?
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by BeeSting12 » #411642

Rustledjimm wrote: I think the training simulators sound very interesting, often players will rarely experiment or test things because if they fuck up it means sitting out the rest of the round for 30, 40, 50 minutes. Or a few players rarely get to try out combat too often.
That's the point of experimentation and testing. It's typically fun/funny when things mess up. That's what made learning toxins one of the funnest times I had learning something in ss13.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by BeeSting12 » #411643

And if you guys are seriously worried about getting banned for testing then we need a fucking policy change. I've literally never banned someone for testing toxins, the most I'd give them is a note but usually not even that.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by onleavedontatme » #411644

Shadowflame909 wrote:It'll also help with the paranoia factor of "if you mess up to prepare for a ban" sort of sense that players get whenever they try to experiment onto a ss13 round.
No it wont, if anything it will make it worse because people will scream "why didn't you test in VR instead"

Someone is eventually going to unironically suggest requiring people to complete training VR for jobs or antags before being allowed to play them at some point
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by BeeSting12 » #411645

Kor wrote:
Shadowflame909 wrote:It'll also help with the paranoia factor of "if you mess up to prepare for a ban" sort of sense that players get whenever they try to experiment onto a ss13 round.
No it wont, if anything it will make it worse because people will scream "why didn't you test in VR instead"

Someone is eventually going to unironically suggest requiring people to complete training VR for jobs or antags before being allowed to play them at some point
Saving this for when it is suggested.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by XDTM » #411647

Trying out rare antags is a good thing, in my opinion. Getting down the mechanics in a safe environment will likely lead to more interesting strategies for these antags, since players will no longer have to gamble their rare antag round on first-time trying a gimmicky spell combo or nuke op loadout.
Yes, there's local servers, but you can only practice so much without someone else on the other side.
That's the point of experimentation and testing. It's typically fun/funny when things mess up. That's what made learning toxins one of the funnest times I had learning something in ss13.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Dax Dupont » #411654

VR is no way gonna replace things like testing toxins or other job things. The only combat-y things you will see are antag load outs and trying wacky guns.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Cobby » #411669

I play a roleplaying game to play a tdm inside of it when really the roleplaying game is just a veiled tdm, what the heck is this feature lol
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Shadowflame909 » #411681

It's no better then lavaland virology/chemistry testing cobby!
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by onleavedontatme » #411684

Those are "real" locations with "real" people and potential impact on the story of the round.

They also recycle dead players rather than drawing from living ones.

They're not available every round either.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Shadowflame909 » #411686

VR is a real location with "real" people who can easily be drawn into the round. The location is dorms. So you're a syndicate agent and your target is in vr? You can get the jump on them! Hell, you can bomb them? I understand that you have a problem with players being in another map and not actually contributing to the station. But how is this any different from players aiming to gain loot from Lavaland, or players who go and space travel? There are multiple things you can do to obtain the problems with VR.

Also, I'd have to disagree with them being available every round. Considering an admin has to place a VR spawner, and they don't really do that often. I think this is a fun practice simulation that's like a better version of the holodeck. It'll die down if you give it time to flourish. I'm just wondering if you want people to make mistakes and try things in round. Why are there all these punishments for messing up? IE. Admin remarks. They kind of make people want to stick to what they know and what's easy!
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by BeeSting12 » #411698

pretty aure the pr has five of them being placed on station. its not intended to be admin only
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Shadowflame909 » #411703

Headmins have to set an actual place for it to spawn, I believe. They haven't yet, or haven't decided to do so. So it's currently admin only!
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by oranges » #411708

you know what kor I'm sorry
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Grazyn » #411725

If making a private server to test things is too difficult for you, ss13 is way above your skill level anyway
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Dax Dupont » #411741

Also don't forget this a config option.

It is up to headmins which maps they would like to see used or not.

If a map falls in disuse or never gets used I'll gladly revert said map for maintainability.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Bombadil » #411745

Using VR to hack the station actually sounds like a good use of VR rather than simulator mode
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Cobby » #411761

Dax Dupont wrote:Also don't forget this a config option.

It is up to headmins which maps they would like to see used or not.

If a map falls in disuse or never gets used I'll gladly revert said map for maintainability.
Just FYI a config option is basically a second line of defense in removing a feature if maintainers haven't yet.

For the purpose of /tg/, if it's a disabled feature, it's practically a dead feature (see: clockcult).
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Dax Dupont » #411763

Cobby wrote:
Dax Dupont wrote:Also don't forget this a config option.

It is up to headmins which maps they would like to see used or not.

If a map falls in disuse or never gets used I'll gladly revert said map for maintainability.
Just FYI a config option is basically a second line of defense in removing a feature if maintainers haven't yet.

For the purpose of /tg/, if it's a disabled feature, it's practically a dead feature (see: clockcult).
and thus a good indicator something should get removed.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Dr_bee » #411767

Bombadil wrote:Using VR to hack the station actually sounds like a good use of VR rather than simulator mode
I would prefer this becoming the first use of it instead of "sim mode". Imagine having to enter VR to change AI laws. and the AI getting VR fun times.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Cobby » #411771

Rustledjimm wrote:Personally Kor I think you're just being quite pessimistic when it comes to how players will react to this. If players are having fun and asking for it we should at least try it out. I think the training simulators sound very interesting, often players will rarely experiment or test things because if they fuck up it means sitting out the rest of the round for 30, 40, 50 minutes. Or a few players rarely get to try out combat too often.

But perhaps there should be some form of a downside to using the VR sleeper to prevent people staying in them the entire shift/round. You should be able to be easily killed while inside a VR sleeper etc.
He's pessimistic because of how similar features functioned (like VR in terms of pulling players) and its effects historically, and in that sense he's 100% correct.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Dax Dupont » #411778

Cobby wrote:
Rustledjimm wrote:Personally Kor I think you're just being quite pessimistic when it comes to how players will react to this. If players are having fun and asking for it we should at least try it out. I think the training simulators sound very interesting, often players will rarely experiment or test things because if they fuck up it means sitting out the rest of the round for 30, 40, 50 minutes. Or a few players rarely get to try out combat too often.

But perhaps there should be some form of a downside to using the VR sleeper to prevent people staying in them the entire shift/round. You should be able to be easily killed while inside a VR sleeper etc.
He's pessimistic because of how similar features functioned (like VR in terms of pulling players) and its effects historically, and in that sense he's 100% correct.
The advantage is that players aren't really pulled from the round, they remain in it and not only that, easy to fuck with. Generally a limited amount of sleepers too.

The gateway was kinda a black hole that would draw people in, remove them from the station and if people came back they'd carry loot with them and derail the round further.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Shadowflame909 » #411843

So, I've played a VR round with the fix testmerged. I went on it and played VR. It was fun for a minute or two. There were no people around. I saw the HOP come up and say "Get back in, I'm gonna fight you." So, I get back in. I die due to some other assistant. I then see ghosts and realize that the VR machine was emagged. IT WAS A STEALTHY KILLER. The hop then put my body on a chair and asked for more people to join VR. It thus created a fun stealth killer gimmick, where innocent assistants went into the machines and never came out. Maybe a lot of people just liked to play VR?

I honestly can't wait for the traitor tc/wizard practice VR maps. I think people will play this a bit more since it's new. But, I can't really see it overtaking rounds like the gateway. I'd call it as time consuming as the holodeck. It's a good feature, and the only thing to really worry about is the first time new feature hype.

Edit: I'm really into it, but a feature that I think would be cool. Is to remove the log out button in an emagged VR machine. Also to be able to force other people to connect in VR. Gotta keep those traitor gimmicks fresh!
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Mark9013100 » #411938

Orion Trail VR when
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Shadowflame909 » #412190

We should allow borgs to be able to enter VR sleepers. For the sole purpose of seeing them flip there shit when humans are constantly dying and disappearing and reviving. It'd be kinda interesting how a peacekeeper borg would react. They'd certainly spice up the odds of winning.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Saegrimr » #412192

Is the dueling arena the only one currently? Trying out all the guns was pretty cool, got to practice robust shooting techniques with another greyshirt.
More than half the guns didn't have firing pins for some reason and couldn't be used.
Bodies and bullet casings pile up very fast and looks like shit, should probably run some periodic arena cleanup.
Could use more windows and less vision obscuring walls, lasers don't seem to go through the windows anyway.

6/10 its okay
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by somerandomguy » #412219

Saegrimr wrote:Is the dueling arena the only one currently? Trying out all the guns was pretty cool, got to practice robust shooting techniques with another greyshirt.
More than half the guns didn't have firing pins for some reason and couldn't be used.
Bodies and bullet casings pile up very fast and looks like shit, should probably run some periodic arena cleanup.
Could use more windows and less vision obscuring walls, lasers don't seem to go through the windows anyway.

6/10 its okay
There's a pin in each room

Also fake windows ugh
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Dax Dupont » #412227

somerandomguy wrote:
Saegrimr wrote:Is the dueling arena the only one currently? Trying out all the guns was pretty cool, got to practice robust shooting techniques with another greyshirt.
More than half the guns didn't have firing pins for some reason and couldn't be used.
Bodies and bullet casings pile up very fast and looks like shit, should probably run some periodic arena cleanup.
Could use more windows and less vision obscuring walls, lasers don't seem to go through the windows anyway.

6/10 its okay
There's a pin in each room

Also fake windows ugh
30 pins per room
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by oranges » #412347

you can make guns spawn as not requiring pins iirc
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Denton » #412405

You could probably define pin = /obj/item/firing_pin for each VR gun or define /vr subtypes that do the same? There has to be a better way though.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Dax Dupont » #412451

Denton wrote:You could probably define pin = /obj/item/firing_pin for each VR gun or define /vr subtypes that do the same? There has to be a better way though.
I really don't want to do subtypes, I don't want to do var edits either.

Maybe I'll make spawners eventually for them that defines pins on the things that are spawned, but someone else was gonna partially rework the murderdome so.
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by Nabski » #412460

GUNDAM MECH BATTLES WHEN?
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Re: Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

Post by somerandomguy » #412461

Mechpilot outfit, gives you a device that lets you call in a mech and equipment
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