Yet another Drone Policy thread

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Alterist
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Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Alterist » #412672

Bottom post of the previous page:

I was told that this is probably better as a policy discussion, so here goes nothing. I've been playing a lot of drone recently but after recent events I've realized I knew less about what is expected of drones than I thought I did, even after reading through a few threads on the forums about drone policy. There seem to by many policies involving drones which are not listed on the forums OR wiki OR in the drone rules/laws. For example, how drones aren't supposed to interact with random event spawned objects; i.e. anomalies(you're not supposed to interact with them, which I didn't know until I was told recently by an admin, and I can't find a thread about said policy). Or for example, if kudzu was defined as a being, the only discussion I've found since was this thread from Or how "beings" as written in the drone laws is defined, when the only concrete definition I can find was kevinz000's post from almost a year ago: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... ng#p337381
kevinz000 wrote:living beings == /mob/living
(to translate, Living beings are equal to /mob/living which is apparently not true according to an admin)
MSO's ruling that pAIs are not defined as beings for the purpose of drone laws (which I can't find and the only proof is a few forum posts confirming it)
and the drone laws itself stating that drones can interact with other drones. In the end, after looking through several threads, I still have no idea what beings as stated in drone laws encompass. Here's a list of previous drone policies that I managed to find if anyone cares:
Spoiler:
holy shit some of these are ancient
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 33&t=12879 (drones can R&D, admins should judge intent of drones)
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=9925 (discussion of drone laws)
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 33&t=12790 (drones are to ignore powersinks)
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=6226 (drones can do botany, bartending and janitoring)
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3662 (drones can't fight kudzu)
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=4719 (drones can't stop an active plasma flood)

(I only managed to find half of these from https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Headmin_Rulings which I came across from a forum post, and wasn't linked anywhere obvious on the wiki)
Perhaps the fact that there were admins that I talked to that didn't know some facet of how drone laws are currently enforced speaks of a larger problem. A player has to scour the forums to find out every little bit of policy made regarding drones in the past.The issue here is that there is a lack of a singular page regarding drone policy, which can be remedied simply with either a update to the drone page on the wiki or a separate drone policy page that is linked in the drone spawn message, compiling previously made rulings about drones and a clear cut definition or a list if possible of what a "Being" is. Hopefully such a page can help both admins and players be more knowledgeable on what is allowed or not for a drone.

The second issue I have is with the rules written in the drone spawn message. For clarity, here are the drone's current laws and rules:
Laws:

Code: Select all

"1. You may not involve yourself in the matters of another being, even if such matters conflict with Law Two or Law Three, unless the other being is another Drone."
"2. You may not harm any being, regardless of intent or circumstance.
"3. Your goals are to build, maintain, repair, improve, and provide power to the best of your abilities, You must never actively work against these goals."
Rules:

Code: Select all

DO NOT INTERFERE WITH THE ROUND AS A DRONE OR YOU WILL BE DRONE BANNED
Drones are a ghost role that are allowed to fix the station and build things. Interfering with the round as a drone is against the rules.
Actions that constitute interference include, but are not limited to:
- Interacting with round critical objects (IDs, weapons, contraband, powersinks, bombs, etc.)
- Interacting with living beings (communication, attacking, healing, etc.)
- Interacting with non-living beings (dragging bodies, looting bodies, etc.)
These rules are at admin discretion and will be heavily enforced.
If you do not have the regular drone laws, follow your laws to the best of your ability.
my main complaints are with "DO NOT INTERFERE WITH THE ROUND AS A DRONE OR YOU WILL BE DRONE BANNED". It has been stated by admins that these Rules take presidence over the Laws, this raises the question; how much building,maintaining,repairing and powering can be considered interference?
For example, this happened in a rather recent round:
A traitor geneticist gets hulk, cold resist and chem grenades. He attacks engineering with the intent of destabilizing the engine, and punches his way through a few wall into the engine. He tosses a rather under-powered grenade at the bottom of the SM chamber. Breaking a few walls and the cooling loop filters then hides out of sight. .
Most of this goes unnoticed by me as a drone until an atmos alarm in the engine pops up in chat. I go to investigate, and finds a hole in the engine where the SM chamber walls and filters are supposed to be, so I repair them.(according to my laws)

The alarms also attracts the attention of a Engie Borg and the AI, who comes to check out what's happening to the engine.
The geneticist, possibly having xray vision or sensing that the SM is taking too long to blow, comes charging back in with another grenade, this time he attacks the top of the SM chamber, breaking the airlocks and many parts of the cooling loop, including scrubbers. I run away to avoid interference with another being. (again according to my laws)

In the meantime, I overhear on the binary channel that the AI notices that the traitor is hulk, and therefore not human, sends the borg to subdue him.
I return after a while, and seeing that there's no one around start to repair the now almost overloaded engine. (provide power to the best of your abilities)

The Borg comes back to the SM after a while, but have little idea how to fix such a damaged engine(doing several very unwise things, but that's not really important)
In the end I had to pull out all the tricks I had for stabilizing the engine (following the law "repair, improve, and provide power to the best of your abilities") I managed to stabilize the engine long enough for the shuttle to come and leave (this is what the engine looked like roundend https://imgur.com/a/d0qvAvY)
Just to be clear, this is how I've always played drone, I see a screaming SM, I fix it; I see the CE testing out a new meme gas mix, I avoid. But yet by trying to act according to my laws, I have probably broken the rules. Now I didn't get bwoinked for this, but with hindsight It could have totally been possible if the tator player ahelped it. If I wasn't fixing the SM, then the Borg and AI might not have been able to repair it in time and the SM would have blown. But then, it is very hard for a drone to determine what is or isn't interference by only using IC knowledge, considering that the only information a standard drone gets are from human chatter, other drones, atmos alarms, non-drone pings, and binary chat. I carry a station bounced radio when playing a drone so I can get a little more info regarding issues on the station or areas to avoid and even that's not enough sometimes.

I've been asked to roleplay drone as a dumb little robot who can only discern if a wall is supposed to be there or not. Trying to roleplay as such creates a paradox in what a drone should do, and this leads into questions like "Can I reset APCs after a powernet failure?", "replace lights after the overload event?" "Can I set air alarms to contaminated as that is an upgrade from filtering?" "Can I repair broken walls of the SM?". After all, any action that "build, maintain, repair, improve and provide power" will interfere the round somehow, perhaps causing a tator to fail his objectives. For example: Repairing a wall that a traitor was using to gain illicit access, or setting up the SM that the tator engineer left off so the shuttle could be called due to lack of power, or optimizing the waste gas loop rendering someones N2O leak ineffective, or another thousand billion possibilities.

I feel like a rewrite of the Drone Spawn Message is in order. As it is now, the player gets a contradicting message on how to play drone. For admins, ""DO NOT INTERFERE WITH THE ROUND AS A DRONE OR YOU WILL BE DRONE BANNED" sends a very strong message, what would a new admin think if he sees that? more likely than not he's gonna see that and diligently ban players who made a honest mistake, all because a line that was written as a bandaid fix has now become LAW. What should be done in the case of issues regarding drones according to a previous headmin is:
imblyings wrote: The crew will benefit from autocloners but they will too from a big breach being fixed. A drone diligently and quickly fixing such a breach may be the difference between a shuttle call or not. I think context should help an admin in making a decision here. If there is a mountain of bodies in genetics due to a murderboner and a drone builds an autocloners in genetics or it's cult and a drone builds an autocloner in the brig? Over the line and admins can use escalating responses from advice and deletion of the built stuff to other things, since there's a very real intent to shape the round. If it's a quiet round and autocloners are one of a few things that the drone is building? Why not?

Admins should judge intent very carefully I think
Source: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 79#p334934
And from an admin(Snipped for clarity):
feem wrote: ...
90% of the time a drone bwoink is because they're doing something blatantly, obviously against their laws or blatantly, obviously disruptive.
...
The likelihood of me giving you a note or a drone ban because you fixed a gaping hole in the bridge is pretty low, unless you actively and intentionally attempt to sabotage whatever the antag is doing at that moment.
...
The point I'm making here is that the strict letter of the law is what's spelled out in your drone laws: Don't intentionally interact, don't mess with a round-critical object, and don't sabotage.

The rest of it is _suggestions based upon admin experience_ to make sure you don't inadvertently violate those laws.

It doesn't mean 'you will be bannu' without review of the situation, or shouldn't.
Source: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 79#p335996

I suggest that if drone policy is staying the way it is, that the IC laws should be removed, and reworked directly into OOC rules; while rewording so that the message isn't "GO DIRECTLY TO BAN, DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT COLLECT $200" at the very least. But honestly what I would like to see more is a change in the way in how drone policy is enforced. Move the focus back onto the Laws, and admins judging intent more regarding drones.
If a someone spawns as a drone after getting killed by an antag just so they can fuck with said antag? Fine, give them a warning and move to notes and bans as necessary if this behaviors continues. Someone who started early into the round as drone doing some repairs that might be considered interfering? tell them through messages in their head that they should stop, I very highly doubt that a player with good intentions in mind would continue what they were doing in this case. After all, isn't this how silicon policy is usually enforced?

On another note, I feel like the "protection" policy that antag actions get from drones should be reconsidered. Like I've said, it's hard for a well meaning drone to tell the difference between malice, incompetence, neglect, ignorance or plain batshit crazycoughSidEchardscough regarding something like the SM. Besides, Drones have very little hp, and there are many methods in game now to deal with them, including but not limited to: telling the AI to blow them, EMPs and other weaponry, spacing them(good luck getting back to the station without being able to throw shit) and so forth. It should be trivial for antags to counteract drones repairing sabotage with all the tools they have at their disposal. This way, there would be at least some form of RP between the oblivious little drone and the blood thirsty traitor

Donno how this became an essay, but I love playing drone and I believe that it can be a role that could benefit the whole station and other's playing experiences.There seem to be a sentiment that drones are "banbait" and I hope that could be alleviated in some way. I feel like current drone policy has lead less and less people to even bother loading up the metal and glass needed into the dispenser, and that would be a shame, because we'll loose out on awesome projects like this: https://track8.mixtape.moe/olzbtt.webm
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by DemonFiren » #413515

Saegrimr wrote:Dare I say this is a community problem and my method of just straight up jobbanning bad drones for considerably longer lengths than normal player bans was a much calmer time?
I mean, the community pretty much always was a problem.

At least if you're the most trigger-happy admin around.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Shadowflame909 » #413518

Saegrimr wrote:
D&B wrote:Dare I say this is a community problem and my method of just straight up jobbanning bad drones for considerably longer lengths than normal player bans was a much calmer time?
This is the best solution.
► Show Spoiler
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Dr_bee » #413521

Cobby wrote:Because antag is a coveted role and interfering with it is blasphemy, even if not directly interfering.
Thinking this way is stupid, and you need to stop.

You are not entitled to special treatment because you rolled antag. If you cant take the 3 seconds it takes to say "; AI pop the drones" in your chat box to solve the problem then you dont DESERVE to sabotage the station.

For fucks sake antag rounds are not a right, you are not entitled to no resistance, even from shitty little ghost roles that just fix things. Trying to insulate antags from responsibility of actually having to counter things is the shittiest trend I see among admins and coders. Losing is part of the game.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Dax Dupont » #413559

Shadowflame909 wrote:
Saegrimr wrote:
D&B wrote:Dare I say this is a community problem and my method of just straight up jobbanning bad drones for considerably longer lengths than normal player bans was a much calmer time?
This is the best solution.
We should just make drone bans a minimum of a month and be done with it tbh.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Nilons » #413568

man fuck drones
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Saegrimr » #413569

Put a "blow the drones" button on the dispenser, or sets them all to detonate and the dispenser itself 30 seconds after emagging it and dusts any remaining shells.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by cedarbridge » #413577

bandit wrote:MoMMIs were what drones were originally supposed to be if I recall correctly and then for some reason it wasn't a straight port
Because a very vocal faction demanded that drones be 1) valid 2) zero-interference 3) player build only.
Saegrimr wrote:
Cobby wrote:Because antag is a coveted role and interfering with it is blasphemy, even if not directly interfering.
They have the same stipulation on /vg/ and are even more powerful in general, hell you even emag mommis to make them work for you if you can catch one of them.
Given how thirsty for Rule 4 antag protection and self-antagging the typical tg player is I don't think "catching them" would be an issue.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Alterist » #413585

Well, I don't know how a discussion about drone policy spawned a pr about functionally removing drones, but whatever.

I would be fine if the "drones must not interfere with antags" rule was removed, but at the same time, drones were nerfed somewhat: like Saegrimr's idea:
Saegrimr wrote:Put a "blow the drones" button on the dispenser, or sets them all to detonate and the dispenser itself 30 seconds after emagging it and dusts any remaining shells.
And their material cost can also be increased, to somewhere like 5 metal and 5 glass of one drone (they're 0.5 of both currently, so a full stack gives you more shells than you'll ever need)
Even their speed can be nerfed slightly and made to be hit by stray bullets.
I mean, if this problem can't be solved with either administration or code alone (And no removing it doesn't fix the problem), then we should try both.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by BeeSting12 » #413586

Here's my other idea: Drones will be allowed to fix anything and everything antagonists break, but not do preventative maintenance.

Example: An antagonist emags a door. The drone can immediately fix it, even if it watched the antagonist do it.

Example: An antagonist fucks up the supermatter. The drone may not fix the supermatter, as that is preventative maintenance. However, the drone can fix all damage caused by the supermatter such as fires and explosion holes.

Allowing drones to interfere with antagonists is a good thing: The issue is that they're so small it's hard to hit them with bullets since bullets go right over drones.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Dr_bee » #413588

Alterist wrote:Well, I don't know how a discussion about drone policy spawned a pr about functionally removing drones, but whatever.

I would be fine if the "drones must not interfere with antags" rule was removed, but at the same time, drones were nerfed somewhat: like Saegrimr's idea:
Saegrimr wrote:Put a "blow the drones" button on the dispenser, or sets them all to detonate and the dispenser itself 30 seconds after emagging it and dusts any remaining shells.
And their material cost can also be increased, to somewhere like 5 metal and 5 glass of one drone (they're 0.5 of both currently, so a full stack gives you more shells than you'll ever need)
Even their speed can be nerfed slightly and made to be hit by stray bullets.
I mean, if this problem can't be solved with either administration or code alone (And no removing it doesn't fix the problem), then we should try both.
increasing the cost of the drone machine is probably a good idea. Drone shells actually running out eventually unless refilled would be a nice addition in general. This would mean that there would be more of a living player requirement to the ghost role for upkeep. I would bump up the cost a bit to 10 sheets and have the drone machine accept part upgrades to reduce it.

There was a period of time where drones were speed nerfed due to a bug and it actually just made playing them hell, and bullets pass over them so they cant accidentally be cover for guns.

I dont think adding a pop the drones button to the dispenser is a good idea however, as it would mean assistants would pop the drones for shits and giggles cause "muh valids." Asking the AI to do it at least means that other people know about it and can ask why. If you need to be sneaky you can just build a borg console, as blowing drones doesnt have an ID restriction on that console like blowing borgs does.

Also make the drone dispenser a buildable machine so you could more easily remove it, as right now you have to beat on it for awhile to destroy it.

Also emagging drones should NEVER be a thing, as F R E E D R O N Es are the most robust mob in the game outside of the robotics console.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Dr_bee » #413591

BeeSting12 wrote:Here's my other idea: Drones will be allowed to fix anything and everything antagonists break, but not do preventative maintenance.

Example: An antagonist emags a door. The drone can immediately fix it, even if it watched the antagonist do it.

Example: An antagonist fucks up the supermatter. The drone may not fix the supermatter, as that is preventative maintenance. However, the drone can fix all damage caused by the supermatter such as fires and explosion holes.

Allowing drones to interfere with antagonists is a good thing: The issue is that they're so small it's hard to hit them with bullets since bullets go right over drones.
I think even preventative maintenance should be allowed honestly as drones are NOT that hard to sneak up on and kill. Remember that drones by default cannot see inhands or equipment, so they wont notice a bloody traitor with an extended e-sword is walking towards them until it is too late.

Nerfing them down to 15 HP would probably be a good thing to do anyway, as that means you can just grab a circular saw or spear and pop them in one hit, as once a drone knows it is being attacked it can run around like a spazz and be nearly impossible to hit.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Alterist » #413603

Dr_bee wrote: -snipped-
I actually had the idea of making the drone dispenser upgradable a while ago, but was told that it was pointless since they already do it so efficiently. I suppose they can use a Matter Bin (Max. Mat storage), Microlaser (Printing Cooldown), and Manipulator (Efficiency) for stock parts.
As for speed, I don't know exactly how fast a drone moves right now, but it feels faster than normal spessman speeds, if so it can be turned down to match. The bullets hitting them thing would be balance to the policy change I suggested, to counter the fact that they can sorta interfere with antags, so it's easier for antags to take them down.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by bandit » #413630

personally my least favorite part of drone policy is how they're allowed to do R&D and shit like that
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Lazengann » #413652

Add a button to your PDA that can detonate drones if they're on your screen and then let them repair whatever they want. Drones will be on good behavior.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Dr_bee » #413664

Lazengann wrote:Add a button to your PDA that can detonate drones if they're on your screen and then let them repair whatever they want. Drones will be on good behavior.
I like this idea better as people murdering drones for valids would at least have to hunt them down to do it. Granted usually those people get bwoinked for griffing anyway but prevention is good.

Dont give it to assistants though, just to be petty, want to have the ability to pop drones you gotta get a job.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Dax Dupont » #413783

bandit wrote:personally my least favorite part of drone policy is how they're allowed to do R&D and shit like that
I really think they should /not/ be allowed to build cloners or do RnD/waste mats.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Alterist » #413823

Dax Dupont wrote:
bandit wrote:personally my least favorite part of drone policy is how they're allowed to do R&D and shit like that
I really think they should /not/ be allowed to build cloners or do RnD/waste mats.

What if said drones mine their own materials, I somehow end up having to do that 4 out of 5 times I play drone because either mining had fucked off to fight monsters or died to a legion somewhere
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by WarbossLincoln » #413871

as a commoner I don't have any insight into the big picture of drones, but isn't this something where 80-90% of players playing drones are perfectly fine? So we don't really need policy change to handle the remainder that cause problems, the majority of which I'm guessing are borderline things done in good faith.

Or am I way off base and the player base is way more autistic than I assume?
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Lazengann » #413873

The problem is that admins have ruled "drones shouldn't interfere with the round" when they should've ruled "drones shouldn't interfere with anyone's fun"
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by oranges » #413910

you can definitely blow drones from the robotics console can't you
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Dr_bee » #413916

oranges wrote:you can definitely blow drones from the robotics console can't you
yep, no ID restriction on it either like blowing borgs.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Saegrimr » #413926

The more I think on it the more I like the idea of detonating all drones and the dispenser a set time after emagging it.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Davidchan » #413932

Get rid of drones.

Get VR simulation crew can enter for fun as well as a chance to play minigames to win useless prizes like toy eswords and plush dolls.

Players that would otherwise be drones can join the simulation as ghosts in the code and are free to do what ever they want (except talk, cause ooc ghost chat valids) to help or hinder all players in the simulation.

Crew that 'dies' in the simulation is just given a game over and ejected from the VR Pod, and can rejoin the VR game after 30 seconds.

Emagging the pod allows for a random ghost in the code to spawn as a random holosprite or other creature from the game and attack anyone that gets close to the pod, but unable to get more than 7 tiles from the pod (ala stand host)

Gets rid of pointless ass drones and gives ghost players their own virtual world to fuck around in as glitches where they can't intentionally affect the outcome of a round without tator involvement.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Cobby » #413935

Lazengann wrote:The problem is that admins have ruled "drones shouldn't interfere with the round" when they should've ruled "drones shouldn't interfere with anyone's fun"
Many don’t consider those different.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by RandomMarine » #413947

Saegrimr wrote:The more I think on it the more I like the idea of detonating all drones and the dispenser a set time after emagging it.
I'd suggest adding a separate machine that's fluffed as a processing unit for the drones' AI.
If it goes down, the drones all get stuck in "hiding" state until it's repaired.

But this is going beyond policy and going into code/design proposals.
Lazengann wrote:The problem is that admins have ruled "drones shouldn't interfere with the round" when they should've ruled "drones shouldn't interfere with anyone's fun"
This is the unfortunate consequence of rotating headmins, the people calling the shots start making rulings based on the rules as written instead of the rules as intended.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Dax Dupont » #414029

So to recap some changes I feel should be made:
Drones should not touch research consoles and/or waste mats. They can't fight lavaland creatures already since they are living beings.
Drones should NOT be building autocloners, it's just unfun and indirectly interferes with the round. If a drone builds 5 autocloners in hooks and crannies, antags will not be able to take them all out. While that's find if a crew member builds it, it's not when drones do.
Drone hitbox should increase in size like bees.
Bad drone behaviour should be instantly met with a 1 month drone ban since it's an expendable ghost role.
IDEALLY drones should not set up tesla engines in the middle of the station, but this is allowed for some reason?
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Arianya
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Arianya » #414030

"Waste mats" is kinda flimsy. Obviously don't use diamonds for diamond flooring when the station has 2 diamonds total, but even using metal/glass for personal building projects could be seen as wasteful under the right circumstances.
Agree on autocloners
Agree on hitbox
See below my thoughts on how this should be handled.
I think drones should be allowed to set up (potentially) dangerous engines but they get punished more harshly if the engine looses/kills people/etc.

If the PR on github gets merged, what I would suggest (and obviously do myself as an admin) would be:
The "TC Trade" model of drones (AKA Soft-whitelist)

During the round, an observer/ghost player can ahelp requesting being spawned as a drone. If this ahelp is not answered or is rejected, then it ends there. It is done at admin discretion. If an admin is willing to do it, then after confirming the player has read the Drone wiki page, will spawn them in as a drone and (ideally) keep an eye on them.

Based on how they behave in the round the admin can give them a note, discussing in simple terms whether they were a good drone or a bad drone.

These notes would then be the foundation of any future requests
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by somerandomguy » #414034

Arianya wrote:If the PR on github gets merged, what I would suggest (and obviously do myself as an admin) would be:
The "TC Trade" model of drones (AKA Soft-whitelist)

During the round, an observer/ghost player can ahelp requesting being spawned as a drone. If this ahelp is not answered or is rejected, then it ends there. It is done at admin discretion. If an admin is willing to do it, then after confirming the player has read the Drone wiki page, will spawn them in as a drone and (ideally) keep an eye on them.

Based on how they behave in the round the admin can give them a note, discussing in simple terms whether they were a good drone or a bad drone.

These notes would then be the foundation of any future requests
AHELP: Tider A: drone plz
AHELP: Tider B: drone plz
AHELP: Tider C: drone plz
AHELP: Tider D: drone plz

you get the idea
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Saegrimr » #414035

Having to ahelp to play a drone is going to get real old for the admin team.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Arianya » #414038

somerandomguy wrote: AHELP: Tider A: drone plz
AHELP: Tider B: drone plz
AHELP: Tider C: drone plz
AHELP: Tider D: drone plz

you get the idea
Outside of the first few rounds I don't really see this being a "8 people all request it at once" thing.

And I'd rather suggest a system that "might get real old" then having it be informaler and messier
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Dax Dupont » #414044

Saegrimr wrote:Having to ahelp to play a drone is going to get real old for the admin team.
This was my immediate response to it in adminbus
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by MaximumOverlizard » #414845

I honestly think that...

1) Drones should always be free to build/repair/upgrade anything if it:
- is part of the station from the start
- isn't modified to do something else (no 'repairing' the atmospherics pipes to stop pumping plasma)
- has been left unattended.
2) If antags don't want those things upgraded or repaired, just kill the drones, stop them from spawning (empty/destroy the printer), and/or blow the things up better. Get good.

It seems pretty ???? to me that a drone can't, outside of "Great googly moogly it's all gone to shit" situations, upgrade all of the machines on the station because OH NO GUYS MEDICAL HAS AN AUTOCLONER, GO DIRECTLY TO JOBBAN DO NOT PASS GO.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Saegrimr » #414850

Hardly matters now, they've been removed from the maps.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by somerandomguy » #414852

Saegrimr wrote:Hardly matters now, they've been removed from the maps.
If we figure drone policy out we can re-add them
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Dr_bee » #414858

Saegrimr wrote:Hardly matters now, they've been removed from the maps.
It seems like people who dont want their antag rounds to have any resistance whatsoever ruined another good feature!

Seriously, the fact that drones were put under so much admin scrutiny in the first place was the problem. if an antag cant handle popping drones then they dont deserve to cause damage, and bad drones were rare enough in my experiences to not be an issue.

I saw bad drones about as often as I saw bad borgs, every other case was a stupid fringe case caused by the fact that drone policy is contradictory as hell almost by design to compromise with people who shouldnt be compromised with in the first place as they will never be happy until the game basically becomes an invulnerable antag griefing simulator and not a space station roleplaying game.

Re-add them, change the ruleset to be more like /vg/ mommi's, and start slamming that IC issue button when people complain about drones building and fixing shit in good faith.

If you have other balance issues with drones then use other methods to balance besides admin enforcement, they have a hard enough job already.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by onleavedontatme » #414860

If the drones were limited like the MOMMIs it'd be easier to tell antags to suck it up and deal with them, but it is miserable when there are an endless stream of very difficult to hit mobs respawning and fucking with you.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Dr_bee » #414861

Kor wrote:If the drones were limited like the MOMMIs it'd be easier to tell antags to suck it up and deal with them, but it is miserable when there are an endless stream of very difficult to hit mobs respawning and fucking with you.
Consider adding some of the suggestions mentioned in this thread, such as an increase in the cost of drone shells, a drone pop remote that pops drones on your screen to PDAs, and such.

Also consider adding a cooldown to spawning as a done after being killed as one, and give drones pacifism by default.

There are numerous ways to fix this problem without removing a fun feature to pass rounds with while dead, instead of being spiteful and removing them.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by leibniz » #414904

Dr_bee wrote:
Kor wrote:If the drones were limited like the MOMMIs it'd be easier to tell antags to suck it up and deal with them, but it is miserable when there are an endless stream of very difficult to hit mobs respawning and fucking with you.
Consider adding some of the suggestions mentioned in this thread, such as an increase in the cost of drone shells, a drone pop remote that pops drones on your screen to PDAs, and such.

Also consider adding a cooldown to spawning as a done after being killed as one, and give drones pacifism by default.

There are numerous ways to fix this problem without removing a fun feature to pass rounds with while dead, instead of being spiteful and removing them.
fun of the living > fun of the dead
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Dr_bee » #414935

leibniz wrote:
Dr_bee wrote:
Kor wrote:If the drones were limited like the MOMMIs it'd be easier to tell antags to suck it up and deal with them, but it is miserable when there are an endless stream of very difficult to hit mobs respawning and fucking with you.
Consider adding some of the suggestions mentioned in this thread, such as an increase in the cost of drone shells, a drone pop remote that pops drones on your screen to PDAs, and such.

Also consider adding a cooldown to spawning as a done after being killed as one, and give drones pacifism by default.

There are numerous ways to fix this problem without removing a fun feature to pass rounds with while dead, instead of being spiteful and removing them.
fun of the living > fun of the dead
How about the fun of the playerbase regardless of the state of their character. You present a false choice.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by BeeSting12 » #415056

Could give drones one life or a limited number of respawns
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Dr_bee » #415066

BeeSting12 wrote:Could give drones one life or a limited number of respawns
A timer would work just as well, we already have one for CTF spawning.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Dr. Chef » #415281

I have no major issues with drones as long as they only repair or build their own forts in space as long as they're not wasting mats. Drones should not be doing jobs that other crew aren't doing, like R&D or Botany. If a dead player wants to do that kind of stuff, then they should spawn as a lava land role.

If a drone witnesses a murder then it should ignore it. If a traitor destroys an airlock the drone should be allowed to repair it or rebuild one, but not bolt or shock it to hinder the traitor. If a traitor breaks a wall then the drone should fix it. Drone should only act like repair droids.
BeeSting12 wrote:Could give drones one life or a limited number of respawns
I think this should apply to all ghost roles. You should be allowed to spawn as a ghost role, but if you die as that role, you cannot respawn as the same role for the rest of the round to prevent someone from wasting ghost role slots, preventing other people from having a chance at playing that role. At this time, if someone dies as a Ash Walker, they can re-spawn as one instantly and try again. Someone could easily spawn as the same role over and over again wasting ghost role slots, unless they make more spawns before dying.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Doctor Pork » #432461

Saegrimr wrote:
Cobby wrote:Because antag is a coveted role and interfering with it is blasphemy, even if not directly interfering.
They have the same stipulation on /vg/ and are even more powerful in general, hell you even emag mommis to make them work for you if you can catch one of them.
It's a fucking mystery.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by WarbossLincoln » #432828

I would be cool with drones being brought back and having their laws loosened a bit. Let them interact with the round to some extent. But then make them more expensive to produce. Require something other than just metal/glass so there won't be a massive supply of them. Also the idea of only allowing you to have 1 drone life would be cool. If someone can spawn as a drone 10 times its silly.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by somerandomguy » #432919

Lower drone health a lot and reorder the laws so it's 2,3,1, completely removing the confusion from their laws while also making it easy for someone (read: an antag) to keep a drone from fixing their sabotage. Or nix the laws completely and make it clear you're supposed to primarily follow the flavortext and not the fluff laws. If the problem is still that the laws are contradictory, this will remove the conflict completely.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Denton » #432952

Does anything speak against me adding a bunch of materials to the Derelict now that it's the designated drone gulag?
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by DemonFiren » #432968

yes, drones aren't allowed to have fun
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Post by Cobby » #433165

Denton wrote:Does anything speak against me adding a bunch of materials to the Derelict now that it's the designated drone gulag?
I was going to do that and never did so if you'd do it I'd greatly appreciate it
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