admin disrespect: the thread

[bman]

is being disrespectful to admins in ahelps actionable? and if so to what extent and under what circumstances?

discuss in this thread

[Arianya]

If you refuse to discuss whatever the admin is trying to talk to you about then you will get a "worst case" punishment for whatever was being investigated as though there was nothing to justify your actions.

If you are actively being insulting/disrespectful just to get a rise out of admins don't be surprised if you get a kick or a ban, or more IC punishments.

At the end of the day it's a game, the admins are here to have fun just as much as you are, there's no need to go about being unpleasant, and admins wouldn't be expected to put up with it just because someone is unable to act like a civilized human being for 5 minutes.

[Lazengann]

Ari typed a lot of words but the simple answer is yes, any hurt feelings can and often will result in a ban

I recommend hiring a PR guy to handle all of your ahelps, I'll offer my services for a low low price

[Nilons]

allowing admins to ban people for being mean to them is a very slippery slope at best

[Lazengann]

The thing is that the admins who get their feelings hurt are almost always more desirable to have around than the people insulting them.

[Davidchan]

An admin with sensitive fee fees should probably stay on tumblr and off of ss13.

[Arianya]

allowing admins to ban people for being mean to them is a very slippery slope at best

It turns out the things you say to people have consequences both IRL and in dumb internet atmos simulators.

Ruling against punishments for "being mean"/"disrespect"/etc. is just opening the door to admin complaints to people who will swear a blue storm up in ahelps and then claim they were banned for said swearing storm as opposed to the grief/antagrolling/etc. that they were originally bwoinked about.

An admin with sensitive fee fees should probably stay on tumblr and off of ss13.

An idiot who can't restrain their inner autistic screeching for 5 minutes should probably stay on singulo and off of ss13.

[Iatots]

Vent all you want but don't antagonize the referee, or you get a card.

[Lazengann]

Admins exist to infringe on other people's playstyle for the sake of the majority so they should expect to have upset people slinging rude words their way. It certainly doesn't bother me. But, I think our current team is excellent and I don't want to see them quit because people are allowed to insult them with no recourse.

[Iatots]

Contain yourself.
Admin Feedback.
Admin Complain.
Antag token.

[Nilons]

An idiot who can't restrain their inner autistic screeching for 5 minutes should probably stay on singulo and off of ss13.

Okay but why do you claim it should be punishable to insult an admin and then in the same post insult a player

The other side of this argument is if you expect players to be 100% professional and courteous in situations where they might be angry and lash out the same would I hope be expected of administrators, who at the time are not expected to never insult or berate a player despite being discouraged from doing so and asked to act with a semblance of professionalism.

Grow a thicker skin, basically

People making admin complaints in bad faith predicated entirely on a theory the admin actually banned them for being mean have never held up and I would expect you to trust that headmins would do due diligence and look into it.

[Bluespace]

Call an authority figure a "stupid fucking idiot" for trying to sort out a situation and see how quickly you land in the shit for being a retard.

[feem]

'But it is said: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger. The choice is yours: to go or wait.'
'And it is also said,' answered Frodo: 'Go not to the Elves for counsel for they will answer both no and yes.'
'Is it indeed?' laughed Gildor. 'Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill.'

[feem]

tl;dr: play stupid games win stupid prizes

definitely agree an admin should be able to personally handle and not be affected by your average run of the mill shitslinging and salt

but it doesn't mean they have to take it from you or that it's in your interest to sling it

and if you make a hella habit of it then you're probably getting dunked

[Arianya]

Okay but why do you claim it should be punishable to insult an admin and then in the same post insult a player

I didn't specify who said idiot was I was just providing an example of why we shouldn't put up with it.

I have nothing against Davidchan other then their dumb username.

The other side of this argument is if you expect players to be 100% professional and courteous in situations where they might be angry and lash out the same would I hope be expected of administrators, who at the time are not expected to never insult or berate a player despite being discouraged from doing so and asked to act with a semblance of professionalism.

Admins are 100% expected to not insult or denigrate people but have that expectation removed if the other side breaks the NAP. If you want professionalism then you have to show the barest level of courtesy in return.

Grow a thicker skin, basically

Admins tend to have a pretty thick skin by pure natural selection but there's no reason admins should be expected to put up with abuse. If a player cannot behave in a civil manner for the brief time it takes to answer an ahelp then quite frankly there's no reason we should give them the benefit of the doubt.

People making admin complaints in bad faith predicated entirely on a theory the admin actually banned them for being mean have never held up and I would expect you to trust that headmins would do due diligence and look into it.

Sure, but in the meantime you end up with dumb long threads where people either insult the OP for making a dumb threads (see Fwoosh vs Kevinz) or dumb long threads where people take a one-sided story and run away with it without any context until an admin/headmin comes in and breaks it up. There's no reason to not nip these in the bud by saying that you have no expectation of professionalism if you start shit.

If an admin opens a bwoink being insulting/disrespectful then 100% respond in kind, you might end up fighting it out in appeals/complaints but you'll be in the right.

[Rustledjimm]

Don't break rule 1.

It's a very simple rule.

If you're too stupid to do this I suggest you find another server.

[CitrusGender]

eh, depends on the admin.

Personally I don't get too mad about people talking shit to me but I'm a headmin so I get it alot and I kinda have to take it.
People have bad days, I try not to ban people for talking complete shit to me
(you can see by this ahelp log where usually another admin gets more pissed off at the stuff people say to me before I do.)

Spoiler:

Ultimately, I understand that people have bad days but I don't like seeing my admins getting shit on for no reason. They're volunteers who are doing this out of the kindness of your heart. Take for instance, what if an admin talked to you like Napkin did in ahelps? What if I just did nothing about that admin and let them verbally abuse you and do nothing about it?

You can talk shit and it won't affect me much but just understand that admins are people to and people will deliberately go out of their way to disrespect them. We usually reserve any sort of ban for egregious cases (and even then, I don't really mind it.) The headmins will review all cases to make sure admins didn't go too far but there definitely is a line of abuse that admins will not tolerate and I think the Napkins case and the Asher case are good examples of that.

Still, you won't get banned for "being mean to admins in ahelps" unless you're really going out of your way to do so.