Yet another Drone Policy thread

Ask and discuss policy about game conduct and rules.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Shadowflame909 » Mon May 28, 2018 8:54 am #413518

Saegrimr wrote:
D&B wrote:Dare I say this is a community problem and my method of just straight up jobbanning bad drones for considerably longer lengths than normal player bans was a much calmer time?


This is the best solution.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Dr_bee » Mon May 28, 2018 9:35 am #413521

Cobby wrote:Because antag is a coveted role and interfering with it is blasphemy, even if not directly interfering.


Thinking this way is stupid, and you need to stop.

You are not entitled to special treatment because you rolled antag. If you cant take the 3 seconds it takes to say "; AI pop the drones" in your chat box to solve the problem then you dont DESERVE to sabotage the station.

For fucks sake antag rounds are not a right, you are not entitled to no resistance, even from shitty little ghost roles that just fix things. Trying to insulate antags from responsibility of actually having to counter things is the shittiest trend I see among admins and coders. Losing is part of the game.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Dax Dupont » Mon May 28, 2018 1:09 pm #413559

Shadowflame909 wrote:
Saegrimr wrote:
D&B wrote:Dare I say this is a community problem and my method of just straight up jobbanning bad drones for considerably longer lengths than normal player bans was a much calmer time?


This is the best solution.


We should just make drone bans a minimum of a month and be done with it tbh.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Nilons » Mon May 28, 2018 2:06 pm #413568

man fuck drones
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Saegrimr » Mon May 28, 2018 2:07 pm #413569

Put a "blow the drones" button on the dispenser, or sets them all to detonate and the dispenser itself 30 seconds after emagging it and dusts any remaining shells.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby cedarbridge » Mon May 28, 2018 2:39 pm #413577

bandit wrote:MoMMIs were what drones were originally supposed to be if I recall correctly and then for some reason it wasn't a straight port

Because a very vocal faction demanded that drones be 1) valid 2) zero-interference 3) player build only.

Saegrimr wrote:
Cobby wrote:Because antag is a coveted role and interfering with it is blasphemy, even if not directly interfering.

They have the same stipulation on /vg/ and are even more powerful in general, hell you even emag mommis to make them work for you if you can catch one of them.

Given how thirsty for Rule 4 antag protection and self-antagging the typical tg player is I don't think "catching them" would be an issue.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Alterist » Mon May 28, 2018 3:45 pm #413585

Well, I don't know how a discussion about drone policy spawned a pr about functionally removing drones, but whatever.

I would be fine if the "drones must not interfere with antags" rule was removed, but at the same time, drones were nerfed somewhat: like Saegrimr's idea:
Saegrimr wrote:Put a "blow the drones" button on the dispenser, or sets them all to detonate and the dispenser itself 30 seconds after emagging it and dusts any remaining shells.

And their material cost can also be increased, to somewhere like 5 metal and 5 glass of one drone (they're 0.5 of both currently, so a full stack gives you more shells than you'll ever need)
Even their speed can be nerfed slightly and made to be hit by stray bullets.
I mean, if this problem can't be solved with either administration or code alone (And no removing it doesn't fix the problem), then we should try both.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby BeeSting12 » Mon May 28, 2018 4:02 pm #413586

Here's my other idea: Drones will be allowed to fix anything and everything antagonists break, but not do preventative maintenance.

Example: An antagonist emags a door. The drone can immediately fix it, even if it watched the antagonist do it.

Example: An antagonist fucks up the supermatter. The drone may not fix the supermatter, as that is preventative maintenance. However, the drone can fix all damage caused by the supermatter such as fires and explosion holes.

Allowing drones to interfere with antagonists is a good thing: The issue is that they're so small it's hard to hit them with bullets since bullets go right over drones.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Dr_bee » Mon May 28, 2018 4:15 pm #413588

Alterist wrote:Well, I don't know how a discussion about drone policy spawned a pr about functionally removing drones, but whatever.

I would be fine if the "drones must not interfere with antags" rule was removed, but at the same time, drones were nerfed somewhat: like Saegrimr's idea:
Saegrimr wrote:Put a "blow the drones" button on the dispenser, or sets them all to detonate and the dispenser itself 30 seconds after emagging it and dusts any remaining shells.

And their material cost can also be increased, to somewhere like 5 metal and 5 glass of one drone (they're 0.5 of both currently, so a full stack gives you more shells than you'll ever need)
Even their speed can be nerfed slightly and made to be hit by stray bullets.
I mean, if this problem can't be solved with either administration or code alone (And no removing it doesn't fix the problem), then we should try both.


increasing the cost of the drone machine is probably a good idea. Drone shells actually running out eventually unless refilled would be a nice addition in general. This would mean that there would be more of a living player requirement to the ghost role for upkeep. I would bump up the cost a bit to 10 sheets and have the drone machine accept part upgrades to reduce it.

There was a period of time where drones were speed nerfed due to a bug and it actually just made playing them hell, and bullets pass over them so they cant accidentally be cover for guns.

I dont think adding a pop the drones button to the dispenser is a good idea however, as it would mean assistants would pop the drones for shits and giggles cause "muh valids." Asking the AI to do it at least means that other people know about it and can ask why. If you need to be sneaky you can just build a borg console, as blowing drones doesnt have an ID restriction on that console like blowing borgs does.

Also make the drone dispenser a buildable machine so you could more easily remove it, as right now you have to beat on it for awhile to destroy it.

Also emagging drones should NEVER be a thing, as F R E E D R O N Es are the most robust mob in the game outside of the robotics console.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Dr_bee » Mon May 28, 2018 4:20 pm #413591

BeeSting12 wrote:Here's my other idea: Drones will be allowed to fix anything and everything antagonists break, but not do preventative maintenance.

Example: An antagonist emags a door. The drone can immediately fix it, even if it watched the antagonist do it.

Example: An antagonist fucks up the supermatter. The drone may not fix the supermatter, as that is preventative maintenance. However, the drone can fix all damage caused by the supermatter such as fires and explosion holes.

Allowing drones to interfere with antagonists is a good thing: The issue is that they're so small it's hard to hit them with bullets since bullets go right over drones.


I think even preventative maintenance should be allowed honestly as drones are NOT that hard to sneak up on and kill. Remember that drones by default cannot see inhands or equipment, so they wont notice a bloody traitor with an extended e-sword is walking towards them until it is too late.

Nerfing them down to 15 HP would probably be a good thing to do anyway, as that means you can just grab a circular saw or spear and pop them in one hit, as once a drone knows it is being attacked it can run around like a spazz and be nearly impossible to hit.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Alterist » Mon May 28, 2018 4:29 pm #413603

Dr_bee wrote:-snipped-

I actually had the idea of making the drone dispenser upgradable a while ago, but was told that it was pointless since they already do it so efficiently. I suppose they can use a Matter Bin (Max. Mat storage), Microlaser (Printing Cooldown), and Manipulator (Efficiency) for stock parts.
As for speed, I don't know exactly how fast a drone moves right now, but it feels faster than normal spessman speeds, if so it can be turned down to match. The bullets hitting them thing would be balance to the policy change I suggested, to counter the fact that they can sorta interfere with antags, so it's easier for antags to take them down.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby bandit » Mon May 28, 2018 5:30 pm #413630

personally my least favorite part of drone policy is how they're allowed to do R&D and shit like that
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Lazengann » Mon May 28, 2018 7:00 pm #413652

Add a button to your PDA that can detonate drones if they're on your screen and then let them repair whatever they want. Drones will be on good behavior.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Dr_bee » Mon May 28, 2018 8:22 pm #413664

Lazengann wrote:Add a button to your PDA that can detonate drones if they're on your screen and then let them repair whatever they want. Drones will be on good behavior.


I like this idea better as people murdering drones for valids would at least have to hunt them down to do it. Granted usually those people get bwoinked for griffing anyway but prevention is good.

Dont give it to assistants though, just to be petty, want to have the ability to pop drones you gotta get a job.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Dax Dupont » Tue May 29, 2018 7:56 am #413783

bandit wrote:personally my least favorite part of drone policy is how they're allowed to do R&D and shit like that

I really think they should /not/ be allowed to build cloners or do RnD/waste mats.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Alterist » Tue May 29, 2018 1:58 pm #413823

Dax Dupont wrote:
bandit wrote:personally my least favorite part of drone policy is how they're allowed to do R&D and shit like that

I really think they should /not/ be allowed to build cloners or do RnD/waste mats.



What if said drones mine their own materials, I somehow end up having to do that 4 out of 5 times I play drone because either mining had fucked off to fight monsters or died to a legion somewhere

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby WarbossLincoln » Tue May 29, 2018 6:51 pm #413871

as a commoner I don't have any insight into the big picture of drones, but isn't this something where 80-90% of players playing drones are perfectly fine? So we don't really need policy change to handle the remainder that cause problems, the majority of which I'm guessing are borderline things done in good faith.

Or am I way off base and the player base is way more autistic than I assume?
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Lazengann » Tue May 29, 2018 6:58 pm #413873

The problem is that admins have ruled "drones shouldn't interfere with the round" when they should've ruled "drones shouldn't interfere with anyone's fun"

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby oranges » Tue May 29, 2018 9:54 pm #413910

you can definitely blow drones from the robotics console can't you
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Dr_bee » Tue May 29, 2018 10:05 pm #413916

oranges wrote:you can definitely blow drones from the robotics console can't you


yep, no ID restriction on it either like blowing borgs.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Saegrimr » Tue May 29, 2018 11:28 pm #413926

The more I think on it the more I like the idea of detonating all drones and the dispenser a set time after emagging it.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Davidchan » Tue May 29, 2018 11:41 pm #413932

Get rid of drones.

Get VR simulation crew can enter for fun as well as a chance to play minigames to win useless prizes like toy eswords and plush dolls.

Players that would otherwise be drones can join the simulation as ghosts in the code and are free to do what ever they want (except talk, cause ooc ghost chat valids) to help or hinder all players in the simulation.

Crew that 'dies' in the simulation is just given a game over and ejected from the VR Pod, and can rejoin the VR game after 30 seconds.

Emagging the pod allows for a random ghost in the code to spawn as a random holosprite or other creature from the game and attack anyone that gets close to the pod, but unable to get more than 7 tiles from the pod (ala stand host)

Gets rid of pointless ass drones and gives ghost players their own virtual world to fuck around in as glitches where they can't intentionally affect the outcome of a round without tator involvement.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Cobby » Tue May 29, 2018 11:58 pm #413935

Lazengann wrote:The problem is that admins have ruled "drones shouldn't interfere with the round" when they should've ruled "drones shouldn't interfere with anyone's fun"


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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby RandomMarine » Wed May 30, 2018 12:57 am #413947

Saegrimr wrote:The more I think on it the more I like the idea of detonating all drones and the dispenser a set time after emagging it.

I'd suggest adding a separate machine that's fluffed as a processing unit for the drones' AI.
If it goes down, the drones all get stuck in "hiding" state until it's repaired.

But this is going beyond policy and going into code/design proposals.

Lazengann wrote:The problem is that admins have ruled "drones shouldn't interfere with the round" when they should've ruled "drones shouldn't interfere with anyone's fun"

This is the unfortunate consequence of rotating headmins, the people calling the shots start making rulings based on the rules as written instead of the rules as intended.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Dax Dupont » Wed May 30, 2018 1:28 pm #414029

So to recap some changes I feel should be made:
Drones should not touch research consoles and/or waste mats. They can't fight lavaland creatures already since they are living beings.
Drones should NOT be building autocloners, it's just unfun and indirectly interferes with the round. If a drone builds 5 autocloners in hooks and crannies, antags will not be able to take them all out. While that's find if a crew member builds it, it's not when drones do.
Drone hitbox should increase in size like bees.
Bad drone behaviour should be instantly met with a 1 month drone ban since it's an expendable ghost role.
IDEALLY drones should not set up tesla engines in the middle of the station, but this is allowed for some reason?

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Arianya » Wed May 30, 2018 1:35 pm #414030

"Waste mats" is kinda flimsy. Obviously don't use diamonds for diamond flooring when the station has 2 diamonds total, but even using metal/glass for personal building projects could be seen as wasteful under the right circumstances.
Agree on autocloners
Agree on hitbox
See below my thoughts on how this should be handled.
I think drones should be allowed to set up (potentially) dangerous engines but they get punished more harshly if the engine looses/kills people/etc.

If the PR on github gets merged, what I would suggest (and obviously do myself as an admin) would be:

The "TC Trade" model of drones (AKA Soft-whitelist)

During the round, an observer/ghost player can ahelp requesting being spawned as a drone. If this ahelp is not answered or is rejected, then it ends there. It is done at admin discretion. If an admin is willing to do it, then after confirming the player has read the Drone wiki page, will spawn them in as a drone and (ideally) keep an eye on them.

Based on how they behave in the round the admin can give them a note, discussing in simple terms whether they were a good drone or a bad drone.

These notes would then be the foundation of any future requests
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby somerandomguy » Wed May 30, 2018 1:54 pm #414034

Arianya wrote:If the PR on github gets merged, what I would suggest (and obviously do myself as an admin) would be:

The "TC Trade" model of drones (AKA Soft-whitelist)

During the round, an observer/ghost player can ahelp requesting being spawned as a drone. If this ahelp is not answered or is rejected, then it ends there. It is done at admin discretion. If an admin is willing to do it, then after confirming the player has read the Drone wiki page, will spawn them in as a drone and (ideally) keep an eye on them.

Based on how they behave in the round the admin can give them a note, discussing in simple terms whether they were a good drone or a bad drone.

These notes would then be the foundation of any future requests

AHELP: Tider A: drone plz
AHELP: Tider B: drone plz
AHELP: Tider C: drone plz
AHELP: Tider D: drone plz

you get the idea

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Saegrimr » Wed May 30, 2018 1:55 pm #414035

Having to ahelp to play a drone is going to get real old for the admin team.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Arianya » Wed May 30, 2018 2:07 pm #414038

somerandomguy wrote:AHELP: Tider A: drone plz
AHELP: Tider B: drone plz
AHELP: Tider C: drone plz
AHELP: Tider D: drone plz

you get the idea


Outside of the first few rounds I don't really see this being a "8 people all request it at once" thing.

And I'd rather suggest a system that "might get real old" then having it be informaler and messier
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Dax Dupont » Wed May 30, 2018 2:22 pm #414044

Saegrimr wrote:Having to ahelp to play a drone is going to get real old for the admin team.

This was my immediate response to it in adminbus

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby MaximumOverlizard » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:45 pm #414845

I honestly think that...

1) Drones should always be free to build/repair/upgrade anything if it:
- is part of the station from the start
- isn't modified to do something else (no 'repairing' the atmospherics pipes to stop pumping plasma)
- has been left unattended.
2) If antags don't want those things upgraded or repaired, just kill the drones, stop them from spawning (empty/destroy the printer), and/or blow the things up better. Get good.

It seems pretty ???? to me that a drone can't, outside of "Great googly moogly it's all gone to shit" situations, upgrade all of the machines on the station because OH NO GUYS MEDICAL HAS AN AUTOCLONER, GO DIRECTLY TO JOBBAN DO NOT PASS GO.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Saegrimr » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:57 pm #414850

Hardly matters now, they've been removed from the maps.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby somerandomguy » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:05 pm #414852

Saegrimr wrote:Hardly matters now, they've been removed from the maps.

If we figure drone policy out we can re-add them

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Dr_bee » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:27 pm #414858

Saegrimr wrote:Hardly matters now, they've been removed from the maps.


It seems like people who dont want their antag rounds to have any resistance whatsoever ruined another good feature!

Seriously, the fact that drones were put under so much admin scrutiny in the first place was the problem. if an antag cant handle popping drones then they dont deserve to cause damage, and bad drones were rare enough in my experiences to not be an issue.

I saw bad drones about as often as I saw bad borgs, every other case was a stupid fringe case caused by the fact that drone policy is contradictory as hell almost by design to compromise with people who shouldnt be compromised with in the first place as they will never be happy until the game basically becomes an invulnerable antag griefing simulator and not a space station roleplaying game.

Re-add them, change the ruleset to be more like /vg/ mommi's, and start slamming that IC issue button when people complain about drones building and fixing shit in good faith.

If you have other balance issues with drones then use other methods to balance besides admin enforcement, they have a hard enough job already.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby onleavedontatme » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:46 pm #414860

If the drones were limited like the MOMMIs it'd be easier to tell antags to suck it up and deal with them, but it is miserable when there are an endless stream of very difficult to hit mobs respawning and fucking with you.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Dr_bee » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:49 pm #414861

Kor wrote:If the drones were limited like the MOMMIs it'd be easier to tell antags to suck it up and deal with them, but it is miserable when there are an endless stream of very difficult to hit mobs respawning and fucking with you.


Consider adding some of the suggestions mentioned in this thread, such as an increase in the cost of drone shells, a drone pop remote that pops drones on your screen to PDAs, and such.

Also consider adding a cooldown to spawning as a done after being killed as one, and give drones pacifism by default.

There are numerous ways to fix this problem without removing a fun feature to pass rounds with while dead, instead of being spiteful and removing them.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby leibniz » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:56 pm #414904

Dr_bee wrote:
Kor wrote:If the drones were limited like the MOMMIs it'd be easier to tell antags to suck it up and deal with them, but it is miserable when there are an endless stream of very difficult to hit mobs respawning and fucking with you.


Consider adding some of the suggestions mentioned in this thread, such as an increase in the cost of drone shells, a drone pop remote that pops drones on your screen to PDAs, and such.

Also consider adding a cooldown to spawning as a done after being killed as one, and give drones pacifism by default.

There are numerous ways to fix this problem without removing a fun feature to pass rounds with while dead, instead of being spiteful and removing them.


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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Dr_bee » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:13 pm #414935

leibniz wrote:
Dr_bee wrote:
Kor wrote:If the drones were limited like the MOMMIs it'd be easier to tell antags to suck it up and deal with them, but it is miserable when there are an endless stream of very difficult to hit mobs respawning and fucking with you.


Consider adding some of the suggestions mentioned in this thread, such as an increase in the cost of drone shells, a drone pop remote that pops drones on your screen to PDAs, and such.

Also consider adding a cooldown to spawning as a done after being killed as one, and give drones pacifism by default.

There are numerous ways to fix this problem without removing a fun feature to pass rounds with while dead, instead of being spiteful and removing them.


fun of the living > fun of the dead


How about the fun of the playerbase regardless of the state of their character. You present a false choice.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby BeeSting12 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:30 pm #415056

Could give drones one life or a limited number of respawns
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Dr_bee » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:19 pm #415066

BeeSting12 wrote:Could give drones one life or a limited number of respawns


A timer would work just as well, we already have one for CTF spawning.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Dr. Chef » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:38 pm #415281

I have no major issues with drones as long as they only repair or build their own forts in space as long as they're not wasting mats. Drones should not be doing jobs that other crew aren't doing, like R&D or Botany. If a dead player wants to do that kind of stuff, then they should spawn as a lava land role.

If a drone witnesses a murder then it should ignore it. If a traitor destroys an airlock the drone should be allowed to repair it or rebuild one, but not bolt or shock it to hinder the traitor. If a traitor breaks a wall then the drone should fix it. Drone should only act like repair droids.

BeeSting12 wrote:Could give drones one life or a limited number of respawns

I think this should apply to all ghost roles. You should be allowed to spawn as a ghost role, but if you die as that role, you cannot respawn as the same role for the rest of the round to prevent someone from wasting ghost role slots, preventing other people from having a chance at playing that role. At this time, if someone dies as a Ash Walker, they can re-spawn as one instantly and try again. Someone could easily spawn as the same role over and over again wasting ghost role slots, unless they make more spawns before dying.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Doctor Pork » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:18 pm #432461

Saegrimr wrote:
Cobby wrote:Because antag is a coveted role and interfering with it is blasphemy, even if not directly interfering.

They have the same stipulation on /vg/ and are even more powerful in general, hell you even emag mommis to make them work for you if you can catch one of them.

It's a fucking mystery.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby WarbossLincoln » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:38 pm #432828

I would be cool with drones being brought back and having their laws loosened a bit. Let them interact with the round to some extent. But then make them more expensive to produce. Require something other than just metal/glass so there won't be a massive supply of them. Also the idea of only allowing you to have 1 drone life would be cool. If someone can spawn as a drone 10 times its silly.
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby somerandomguy » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:36 am #432919

Lower drone health a lot and reorder the laws so it's 2,3,1, completely removing the confusion from their laws while also making it easy for someone (read: an antag) to keep a drone from fixing their sabotage. Or nix the laws completely and make it clear you're supposed to primarily follow the flavortext and not the fluff laws. If the problem is still that the laws are contradictory, this will remove the conflict completely.

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Denton » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:41 am #432952

Does anything speak against me adding a bunch of materials to the Derelict now that it's the designated drone gulag?

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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby DemonFiren » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:59 am #432968

yes, drones aren't allowed to have fun
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Re: Yet another Drone Policy thread

Postby Cobby » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:08 pm #433165

Denton wrote:Does anything speak against me adding a bunch of materials to the Derelict now that it's the designated drone gulag?


I was going to do that and never did so if you'd do it I'd greatly appreciate it
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