A Suggestion for Nuke Op Rounds.

[jyxpe]

Nuclear Emergency rounds are just about always on the station. Possible ways to combat Nuke Ops include: running, screaming, shooting them before they shoot you, going to the mining station or jumping into space to escape inevitable doom (talking about competent Ops here, not fluke ops). Now, I am not going to bring up the arg- discussion regarding the meta to this but I believe that infiltrating the Syndicate ship should be a legitimate tactic which requires a certain level of skill.

The defense for the ship should be some sort of automated turret. They are in the code and it's fairly easy to change the properties so that Syndicate members arent targeted. They could possibly be buffed so that basically, when you see it, you ded plz restrt. It may also be necessary for borg interface to be disabled - possibly.

Another mode of defense would be to change the permissions of the blast doors of the ship. The walls are already indestructible and if the fore shutters are closed, it's just about impenetrable without explosives.

Of course, there are always downsides to this. During a Syndicate round, players may powergame by skirting the station with a jetpack. May be countered by moving shuttle locations further from the station. Of course, if Syndicates break in at the armory, isnt it a fair idea to check outside the armory?

Dont know, just an idea.

Regards,
Jyxpe

[MMMiracles]

I always wanted to see extra objectives for the ops. Maybe instead of having to blow the station up, they have to capture X head, or some other high value target (alive obviously). Would break up the instant meta of 'protect dat fuckin' disk' when the assistant sees the redsuit pass a maintain window.

[cedarbridge]

Reminds me of that round I dunked the captain and dragged his whole body to the shuttle for the ops to pick the disk off of. Only, he was dead so its not really a great "kidnapping" job.

[Cheridan]

"Don't meta the syndi shuttle" is a dinosaur of a rule that's been held over from the days when the shuttle could only appear at a single location. OP is completely right in saying that the shuttle should have turret or other defenses instead of Rule protections.

[Perakp]

Syndicate shuttle does have turret protection, but I haven't ever seen them fire at anyone though so don't know how strong they are. I think they shoot at anyone who doesn't have an agent ID on them.

The biggest reason the crew isn't allowed to search for the shuttle is those times when they manage to steal the nuke or move the shuttle away, the round really suffers from it. The rule sucks though, so we should be looking at changing up the mechanics to counter those tactics, allowing the crew to actually go out and try fight the syndicate.

Some (old) suggestions come to mind:
- Being able to remotely change the location of the shuttle
- Using the pinpointer to track the shuttle/ the nuke
- Deployable nuke beacon similar to singularity beacon, an item to spend TC on?

[cedarbridge]

Syndicate shuttle does have turret protection, but I haven't ever seen them fire at anyone though so don't know how strong they are. I think they shoot at anyone who doesn't have an agent ID on them.

The biggest reason the crew isn't allowed to search for the shuttle is those times when they manage to steal the nuke or move the shuttle away, the round really suffers from it. The rule sucks though, so we should be looking at changing up the mechanics to counter those tactics, allowing the crew to actually go out and try fight the syndicate.

Some (old) suggestions come to mind:
- Being able to remotely change the location of the shuttle
- Using the pinpointer to track the shuttle/ the nuke
- Deployable nuke beacon similar to singularity beacon, an item to spend TC on?

We discussed using pinpointers to point to the shuttle, but that was junked because the crew getting their hands on one would be beyond stupid.

[paprika]

If a crewmember gets their hands on an agent ID they should be able to enter the shuttle IMO, it teaches nuke ops to get good, and protecting their incompetency with rules and policies is actually the non-buzzword definition of hugb0x

[iyaerP]

Being able to counter-raid the shuttle is actually a nice idea, although space movement needs to get un-fucked before it becomes even a remote possibility.

Maybe have the syndicate pinpointer have two modes, point at nuke and point at shuttle, that way the crew can find it when they are good enough to dunk ops without losing the items.

[leibniz]

"Don't meta the syndi shuttle" is a dinosaur of a rule that's been held over from the days when the shuttle could only appear at a single location. OP is completely right in saying that the shuttle should have turret or other defenses instead of Rule protections.

I think it was fair game once they were confirmed though, you just couldnt check at roundstart fnr.

Being able to counter-raid the shuttle is actually a nice idea, although space movement needs to get un-fucked before it becomes even a remote possibility.

Maybe have the syndicate pinpointer have two modes, point at nuke and point at shuttle, that way the crew can find it when they are good enough to dunk ops without losing the items.

It has more to do with the ops being bad enough to lose them.

[iyaerP]

We can relieve traitors of their items if they are bad enough to get dunked. Being better should be rewarded. It isn't like the nuke ops come in with pulse rifles. The biggest benefit of raiding the shuttle would be being able to ambush nuke ops as they return from planting the bomb, not actually looting the shuttle itself, as most goodies would already have gone with the ops on the raid.

[Cheridan]

We can relieve traitors of their items if they are bad enough to get dunked. Being better should be rewarded. It isn't like the nuke ops come in with pulse rifles. The biggest benefit of raiding the shuttle would be being able to ambush nuke ops as they return from planting the bomb, not actually looting the shuttle itself, as most goodies would already have gone with the ops on the raid.

Well, nah, the biggest benefit would be stealing the nuke and letting it drift into space. Which is kinda anti-fun, considering there's really no way to find it after that. If there was a lock or something on the nuke or the area where it's contained that'd be fine though.

[Erbbu]

Raiding the shuttle would be fun. Just make the nuke unstealable and we should be golden.

[jyxpe]

I think it was fair game once they were confirmed though, you just couldnt check at roundstart fnr.

I still got tempbanned for it. 30 minutes of nuke op confirmation with a very good estimate for their location. IMO there was no meta involved.

[lumipharon]

I only ever pursue the ops to the shuttle, if I'm following a pinpointer.

[Erbbu]

I think it was fair game once they were confirmed though, you just couldnt check at roundstart fnr.

I still got tempbanned for it. 30 minutes of nuke op confirmation with a very good estimate for their location. IMO there was no meta involved.

I remember a janitor raiding my shuttle back in the days of janicart and hijacking it to syndiespess so that we could not win. He didn't get banned for it. It seems that there is no clear policy on this.

[oranges]

I'd swear we had this thread already and I swear the map was edited to include turrets.

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/2479 Here is kaze adding turrets to the shuttle

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/2745 Here is cheridan reverting it

I'm not crazy!

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/2030 Also there is this

When where they removed? What happened, who did this evil thing