/tg/Station 13

by **Kierany9** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:18 pm #441596

Mode just got merged (Github), wiki article is here(tgstation wiki), discuss.

Edit (13/02/19): Assimilation 2.0 has been merged (Github)

by **DemonFiren** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:32 pm #441601

sounds like yet another reason not to sit/stand next to each other and just talk

by **Lumbermancer** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:44 pm #441602

Vessels are not antagonists, and should not be treated as such unless under the effects of mind control. Killing vessels for no reason is a good way to cop a ban.

What the fuck is this mode then? Can you tell if someone is mind controlled? Is this like gangs but you are alone? Why is there a need for mode which involves many people, but only one person gets to have fun?

by **DemonFiren** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:47 pm #441604

inb4 let's make it a side antag

by **Steelpoint** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:54 pm #441605

So what actually happens to people who are 'assimilated'? Do they just go along with their lives like nothing happened?

by **Kierany9** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:34 pm #441615

Lumbermancer wrote:What the fuck is this mode then? Can you tell if someone is mind controlled?

Not unless they start throwing out powers, at which point you've probably got a decent case for self defence. I might take out that part of the wiki article, but basically killing them as security is a bad idea because unless you've previously confirmed their identity, you'll never know if they were the antagonist or a simple pawn that could've helped you had you implanted them.

Lumbermancer wrote:Is this like gangs but you are alone?

No, it's nothing like gangs.

Lumbermancer wrote:Why is there a need for mode which involves many people, but only one person gets to have fun?

Just like every other non-conversion mode where there are multiple independent antags.

Steelpoint wrote:So what actually happens to people who are 'assimilated'? Do they just go along with their lives like nothing happened?

Yes, the entire point is that they don't know they've been assimilated.

by **PKPenguin321** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:50 pm #441689

new mode idea. the antagonist has a button that can affect people within range. affected people are "antagonized." there is no functional gameplay element to this except that if there are enough antagonized people, the antagonist wins when the round ends after a shuttle dock. i call this mode "antagonist." thank you and goodbye.

by **WarbossLincoln** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:49 pm #441887

"but basically killing them as security is a bad idea because unless you've previously confirmed their identity, you'll never know if they were the antagonist or a simple pawn that could've helped you had you implanted them."

So revolutionaries, which get executed all the time unless sec is organized and has plenty of implants.

by **Boris** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:28 pm #441895

Mind control needs more range imo, apart from that this is good and i like it.

by **iksyp** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:15 pm #441921

shadowling

by **ShadowDimentio** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:12 pm #441940

This is just shadowling but less interesting to fight.

by **Hathkar** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:36 am #442574

Not exactly much fun to play against. There's zero tells someone is assimilating, and the fact they can break mindshields is a bit much, considering that's the only counter.

Feels like a less eventful abductor mode, since only the main antagonists know what's going on. And most of the assimilated will think it's just an extended round.

by **Anuv** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:25 pm #442715

Between last night and today it's extended for all but 2 or 3 players

by **Togopal** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:30 pm #442719

I've only played three rounds with this antagonist but I'll throw in some feedback. Very nice concept but the powers could use a bit of tweaking. Mindshields breaking upon the amplified assimilation shouldn't notify the person unless they have Sechuds (unless this is already the case then good job). Objectives should have more diversity than assimilate x amount of people into the hivemind and kill Y. Maybe a VIP mindshield target that every individual assimilator must have sole control over to promote competition. Also there must be an indication that someone is being mind controlled or we're going to get a lot of confused adminhelps imo, maybe some flavor text when you examine them would help

Also this should come in with another gamemode if it doesn't already, like traitors or lings

by **BebeYoshi** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:23 pm #442753

Togopal wrote:Also there must be an indication that someone is being mind controlled or we're going to get a lot of confused adminhelps imo, maybe some flavor text when you examine them would help

Admins get a notification everytime someone is controlled and everytime someone is controlled they show the same icon as hivermind in the Antag HUD.

by **NoxVS** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:50 am #442801

I have only played in a round with this mode 2-3 times. In all the rounds I played with it I never once figured out it was assimilation until the round ended. It was just extended for me.

by **lmwevil** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:28 am #442805

the round is basically extended and there's no motivation to really go after other hiveminds, as they are I'd prefer them as a random event side antag as some people 'wake up' as a hivemind.

EDIT: Perhaps you could modify the number and change the quantity to be quite a lot higher, even when I manually add more during a round it's pretty quiet. Having a lot of them would make for a lot more of a '4d chess' sort of situation as they play for hosts. As it is there is so little that.. yeah it's extremely dull

by **oranges** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:04 am #442809

none of you have actually given any reasons why more extended like rounds are bad

by **NoxVS** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:29 am #442814

oranges wrote:none of you have actually given any reasons why more extended like rounds are bad

Most fun comes from conflict. There's little to do and no threats you have to worry about until a dangerous midround event shows up, something that might not happen even after an hour. Its boring for most of the station due to a lack of things to do aside from build autism forts. Conflict is almost required to have fun and its missing almost entirely from extended.

The reason why people don't like extended is the same reason why you wouldn't watch a movie about a guy waking up, having a productive day at work with no problems or distractions, and then going home and going asleep.

by **ShadowDimentio** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:32 am #442819

oranges wrote:none of you have actually given any reasons why more extended like rounds are bad

Antagonists are the driving force behind rounds. Most jobs can be finished in 20 minutes tops, and without any valids to hunt everything just turns to tiding and suicide.

by **Bawhoppennn** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:39 am #442821

Extended rounds provide an actual chance to RP. Conflict is derived from natural situations and differences in personality, not an arbitrary "antag" status you have applied roundstart.

by **NoxVS** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:32 am #442826

Bawhoppennn wrote:Extended rounds provide an actual chance to RP. Conflict is derived from natural situations and differences in personality, not an arbitrary "antag" status you have applied roundstart.

A chance to RP what exactly? There is no conflict to drive RP. It would just be some boring round where you talk to people and then get bored and call the shuttle. There's already HRP servers if you want to sit at a bar having a conversation and nothing else.

And yes, antag status isn't required for conflict, but its really the only chance for consistent conflict aside from random events which are extremely uncommon and a shift can last over an hour without ever getting an impactful one. If you had a round where there were no antags and no random events then what is there to have a conflict over that isn't forced and isn't someone stealing "x" from your department.

by **Grazyn** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:51 am #442831

In the last real extended round I played, someone walked in the supermatter at roundstart, nobody fixed the destabilization, the SM exploded with the least powerful explosion (basically just the chamber) and the shuttle was called as soon as refuelling was over.

If anything, stealth extended modes like this one are better because people don't try to end the round as soon as the extended announcement goes off.

by **confused rock** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:09 pm #442849

The game needs more natural threats for extended to be interesting on its own merit, but that isn’t about assimilation, which also isn’t interesting on its own merit. Why have an extended-like mode when extended itself already exists? Assimilants only mean you might get a random heart attack through your loyalty implant and die with no warning, and those who are enjoying ‘extended’ won’t enjoy that.

by **BeeSting12** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:49 pm #442861

People are misunderstanding this as a conversion mode. It's not a conversion mode: The "converted" people were never intended to do antagonistic stuff. It's a lot more similar to a traitor implanting a grenade into someone's chest than a revolutionary flashing someone. The only reason security has any motivation to implant anyone is to protect them from the negative effects associated with being assimilated, for example heart attacks or being possessed and killing people.

I don't think there needs to be any mechanical additions to them to improve the mode. If it's combined with traitor similar to how changelings already are, it won't be slow paced like an extended round. Assimilators should also have more objectives meant to antagonize the crew- remember how changelings have like five objectives? Instead of being a 1v1v1 assimilator thing, make it more like a 1v1v1vCrew.

For example:

Objective 1: Assimilate X crewmembers or have X crewmembers escape on the shuttle/pods (already a thing)

Objective 2: Assimilate a specific crewmember (already a thing)

Objective 3: One of the following: Steal objective, kill objective, maroon objective.

Objective 4: Escape alive.

by **Mickyan** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:06 pm #442865

My problem with the mode (I do like it by the way, and a more laid back mode that doesn't always leave the station in ruin is a nice change of pace) is that there isn't much the crew can do to fight back other than mass implanting, it's nearly impossible to discover a somewhat competent host and the mode seems to mostly revolve around the few antags getting in each other's way while the crew is just along for the ride

by **Oldman Robustin** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:25 pm #442867

oranges wrote:none of you have actually given any reasons why more extended like rounds are bad

The polls showed that It's easily the most divisive mode we have. Many love it, but even more hate it. Plus the common sense notion that conflict drives the SS13 narrative, and the mode dictates the nature of that conflict. Entertaining conflicts are enjoyed by a majority of players - and years and years of attempts have shown that extended does not produce entertaining conflicts unless an admin is around to get the ball rolling on something larger in scope than "the botanist keeps breaking into chemistry so we keep arresting him and now he's catatonic".

by **Hathkar** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:34 am #443809

Heart attack power is pretty overpowered, with pretty much zero counterplay. I got heart attacked across z-levels.
Yes I ded.

by **oranges** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:06 pm #449088

thanks oldman

I mean my personal view, if people are interested is that we should move away from multiple round types.

Traitor
Rev
Nuclear ops

Should probably be the only modes

Traitor runs 99% of the time and a lot more traitors goals and traitor types and mid round antags are added, so that traitor doesn't become stale.

It's the ideal gamemode because it doesn't pit people exclusively against each other.

by **confused rock** » Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:40 am #449120

are you implying datum antags

by **Yakumo_Chen** » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:10 am #453448

I spent an entire HoP Assimilator round RPing and talking to people and inspecting departments while adding to the hivemind. For my trouble, I got beaten to death by security having done literally nothing antagonistic the entire round and just trying to be nice to crew.

Apparently mindshielding people flat out says who the antags are in chat, which makes absolutely no sense and gives sec a reason to validhunt for no fucking reason.

Serves me right for trying to roleplay in a roleplaying game. Next time I guess I'll just antag trade for traitor or something and blow up the entire station.

by **DemonFiren** » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:18 pm #453580

Yakumo_Chen wrote:I spent an entire HoP Assimilator round RPing and talking to people and inspecting departments while adding to the hivemind. For my trouble, I got beaten to death by security having done literally nothing antagonistic the entire round and just trying to be nice to crew.

Apparently mindshielding people flat out says who the antags are in chat, which makes absolutely no sense and gives sec a reason to validhunt for no fucking reason.

Serves me right for trying to roleplay in a roleplaying game. Next time I guess I'll just antag trade for traitor or something and blow up the entire station.

>he still thinks /tg/ is a roleplaying server

by **delaron** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:14 pm #453912

Yakumo_Chen wrote:I spent an entire HoP Assimilator round RPing and talking to people and inspecting departments while adding to the hivemind. For my trouble, I got beaten to death by security having done literally nothing antagonistic the entire round and just trying to be nice to crew.

Apparently mindshielding people flat out says who the antags are in chat, which makes absolutely no sense and gives sec a reason to validhunt for no fucking reason.

Serves me right for trying to roleplay in a roleplaying game. Next time I guess I'll just antag trade for traitor or something and blow up the entire station.

You literally did the exact same thing to me a week or so ago when you were the RD and I was the CE. I wanna sit here sipping my ice tea looking at this post with a smirk but still it doesn't solve the inherent issue with this game mode and the valid hunters.

I think the mind-shield implant should not spit out the name clear as day. Maybe a description. what they are wearing, race, skin tone etc. make it some detective work.

by **Shadowflame909** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:05 pm #453937

Make it hangman. If the antags aren't that powerful. Make it spit out 3 random letters of there name, which the detective/sec will have to piece about.

If they're a good sport they'll solve it. As it actually gives the detective something to do.

My assimilator round as a captain kind of sucked though. I was walking around, and then all of a sudden I got mindcontrolled, someone pressed the *sleep* verb on me like a dick. And then they looted me and spaced my sleeping body.

I don't know if this is intended or not, to allow other people to put you to sleep with a mechanic. But I feel like if you do that, you should also go to sleep for trying to cheese and murderbone people with this. (Clearly me being salty about dying in such a lame way with no way to defend myself. But it was pretty annoying)

by **Shadowflame909** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:39 pm #453987

Make the "You're mindshield has gone missing etc." Text way more obvious and bright.

by **Yakumo_Chen** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:33 am #454159

delaron wrote:
Yakumo_Chen wrote:I spent an entire HoP Assimilator round RPing and talking to people and inspecting departments while adding to the hivemind. For my trouble, I got beaten to death by security having done literally nothing antagonistic the entire round and just trying to be nice to crew.

Apparently mindshielding people flat out says who the antags are in chat, which makes absolutely no sense and gives sec a reason to validhunt for no fucking reason.

Serves me right for trying to roleplay in a roleplaying game. Next time I guess I'll just antag trade for traitor or something and blow up the entire station.

You literally did the exact same thing to me a week or so ago when you were the RD and I was the CE. I wanna sit here sipping my ice tea looking at this post with a smirk but still it doesn't solve the inherent issue with this game mode and the valid hunters.

I think the mind-shield implant should not spit out the name clear as day. Maybe a description. what they are wearing, race, skin tone etc. make it some detective work.

dunno what you mean, I've never tried to kill hiveminds except while playing as one.

Just the fact you can out an antag or mode over the course of regular play by complete accident (implanting a new officer recruit) is actually fucking dumb

by **delaron** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:44 pm #454274

Yakumo_Chen wrote:
delaron wrote:
Yakumo_Chen wrote:I spent an entire HoP Assimilator round RPing and talking to people and inspecting departments while adding to the hivemind. For my trouble, I got beaten to death by security having done literally nothing antagonistic the entire round and just trying to be nice to crew.

Apparently mindshielding people flat out says who the antags are in chat, which makes absolutely no sense and gives sec a reason to validhunt for no fucking reason.

Serves me right for trying to roleplay in a roleplaying game. Next time I guess I'll just antag trade for traitor or something and blow up the entire station.

You literally did the exact same thing to me a week or so ago when you were the RD and I was the CE. I wanna sit here sipping my ice tea looking at this post with a smirk but still it doesn't solve the inherent issue with this game mode and the valid hunters.

I think the mind-shield implant should not spit out the name clear as day. Maybe a description. what they are wearing, race, skin tone etc. make it some detective work.
dunno what you mean, I've never tried to kill hiveminds except while playing as one.

Just the fact you can out an antag or mode over the course of regular play by complete accident (implanting a new officer recruit) is actually fucking dumb

Agreed maybe tie in detaining the exposed hivemind for research points via surgery or observation instead of kill. Also require more effort for the outting. A surgery or council session with a doctor or Chaplin?

by **Fatal** » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:24 am #468535

Okay, here's some feedback:

Be miner, chill round, mine the whole planet, for around an hour

Get back to base, at the ORM getting some plasma out to sell it

Randomly have my body taken over, all my gear removed and launched into space out of the arrivals airlock, I then take control of my body again, in deep space, as I die

How fun is that for anyone?

In 6 years of playing that is pretty much the lamest, worst death, ever, because there's zero counterplay, zero indication it's going to happen, it's just awful

by **DemonFiren** » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:47 pm #468565

Fatal wrote:Okay, here's some feedback:

Be miner, chill round, mine the whole planet, for around an hour

Get back to base, at the ORM getting some plasma out to sell it

Randomly have my body taken over, all my gear removed and launched into space out of the arrivals airlock, I then take control of my body again, in deep space, as I die

How fun is that for anyone?

In 6 years of playing that is pretty much the lamest, worst death, ever, because there's zero counterplay, zero indication it's going to happen, it's just awful

clearly the solution is to bar certain antagonists from random murder

oh wait

by **Mickyan** » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:58 pm #468567

Not that different from getting ebowed and dragged in a dark corner really

But I think hosts should take a fraction of all the damage a mind controlled vessel takes to make mind control suicide a little more risky (I know the host dies if the vessel does but it's easy enough to put your target in a position where they have no way to survive after regaining control)

by **RandolfTheMeh** » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:33 pm #468569

I've come to enjoy the game mode's concept, though I believe any "mind-control" mechanic where you literally control other players is poor design with our current game structure. It'd be neat if they had a set of things they could do instead, like force pacifism/clumsy onto someone for a minute or so, so the cop shooting you shoots himself or whatnot.

Mickyan wrote:Not that different from getting ebowed and dragged in a dark corner really

It is, getting ebowed gives you time to yell for help, even if you can't get too many details out. It's more akin to standing next to an airlock, then getting admin-thrown out of it into space.

by **Fatal** » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:34 pm #468570

Being ebowed and dragged into a dark corner relies on nobody spotting you doing it, target not calling out on radio, and you have to stash the body somewhere, plus you have to hit the guy in the first place

I'm not saying it's not that hard to do that, but at least there's SOME counterplay to it

The hivemind has no counterplay

This post was deleted by PKPenguin321 on Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:30 pm.
Reason: Requested delete by post author

by **Shadowflame909** » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:57 pm #468573

As a guy experienced with getting mind controlled and forced to die, and someone experienced doing such a tactic.

Hivemind just isn't very versatile.

I'd compare it to traitor, but instead of tools to murderbone with, you get an assortment of items from the devices and tools list, with 1 loud and proud murderbone tool.

What im saying is, the mode just doesn't have much going for it.

The greatest feature of it, mind control, isn't fun to play against as it takes all control away from the player and forces an outcome.

But they can't really cause much of anything without it.

I think it just needs more unique skills and less mind-control.

Me personally, I'd take a page out of Colossus's Vocal Cords. Something Akin to that, like having everyone in the area do an AOE slip or a sleep command. Just anything that has the potential for not being an instant I win button.

And if it is, Its uniqueness should be favorable enough so that people don't get tired of it after only seeing it twice.

by **Mickyan** » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:02 pm #468574

I was more talking about it being a lame death than functionally the same, although I could make other examples of instant stun+mute that are insta GG. At least mind control requires some planning with having to assimilate the target beforehand and you're vulnerable for the duration

Mind control is cool but it would indeed suck if making people kill themselves became assimilators's signature move

by **Fatal** » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:09 pm #468576

It seems to be that's how people are using it, I watched the assimilator who killed me for a bit after my death, he did the same to some poor person who took my ID he dropped on the floor and did the same to them, and did very little else for the rest of the round

Otherwise, it was pretty much an extended round for an hour

by **Shadowflame909** » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:11 pm #468578

What. I did not!

T. Guy who used mind control to kill you, as you were my target.

I killed two people with mind control, my target. And a recently cloned person with my targets ID.

Why you ask?

Well, my other options would of basically been me doing a 0 tc traitor run.

by **DemonFiren** » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:31 pm #468586

fortunately kil objectives can be gotten rid of

by **Fatal** » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:06 pm #468590

Shadowflame909 wrote:What. I did not!

T. Guy who used mind control to kill you, as you were my target.

I killed two people with mind control, my target. And a recently cloned person with my targets ID.

Why you ask?

Well, my other options would of basically been me doing a 0 tc traitor run.

I don't blame you for doing it, I mean, it was your objective

It's just the gamemode sucks

by **Kierany9** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:52 am #471330

The name reveal on mindshield has been removed, and replaced with a temporary pinpointer for both parties plus an alert. The pinpointer selects a target randomly, but is very heavily weighted towards nearby and stronger/more brazen hivemind hosts. Other name reveals have also been swapped for this mechanic. If a reveal happens while the host is using mind control, the host will not receive a pinpointer nor an alert.