[TheMidnightRose] istoprocent - Unjustified Ban

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Istoprocent1
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] istoprocent - Unjustified Ban

Post by Istoprocent1 » #465533

Bottom post of the previous page:

Anuv wrote:You don't waste RP on tiders because you don't RP. Instead you rush the riot shotgun and rubber shot and tazers as detective every round and try to kill whoever you're allowed to until you're blue in the face like you're playing TTT. Everyone sees this and is aware of it.
Hyperbole. Trying to paint me as a "noRP deathmatcher" will fail hard, because you can't back it up as its not the case. Getting Riot Shotgun every round? Kill whoever I am allowed? Cease.
Anuv wrote:But your second post in this thread is you bragging about "outplaying" other people.
Nobody is bragging, the reality is that either SS13 has a good flow, which causes players to get immersed to the point where they get super salty about dying or its full of grown men with issues.
Anuv wrote:You view SS13 as some zero-sum game where you need to punish others as harshly as a set of IC guidelines will let you and make other people lose. You don't talk to people or try to enhance the game by hashing stuff out. You rule lawyer and niggle over details as far as it will let you while forgetting that rule 1 exists. That is why this all happened. Believe it or not but you can enhance the game for yourself and others by not permanently removing someone from a round who didn't do anything round-impacting while you're tapping your finger on a sentence in a set of IC guidelines that say you're allowed to. You can actually make the game fun by trying to talk things out with people and remembering that other people are here to have fun too. You can actually arrest traitors and talk to them or try to work something out when you aren't sec.
Creative use of words. My fun comes from catching the bad guys (ie. the real antagonists). I don't want to deal with tiders and I do think that tiders are causing the experience to be shitty for everyone aside for themselves and their tidebuddies.

Edit: All this happened, because you did bad things, ahelped it and an admin made a really bad judgement call by not asking you whether any of what I said happened and ending the ticket as IC issue or punish you for ban baiting on the spot.
Anuv wrote:Did I do something bad ICly? Yes. But I know I wasn't in the wrong to ask about cremation as a punishment. I asked a legitimate question that I didn't know the answer to. I answered truthfully when I was asked questions about the theft and everything.

I'm sorry that you're so renowned for being such a shitty and caustic player that the administration team as a whole ultimately decided on this punishment when they were asked to weigh in on the matter.
Renowned for being shitty and caustic. If you say so, maybe it has more to do with something else.

For your information I have played the detective on high for 2 months or so with next to no errors. The problem is not how I play the detective, the problem is and always has been the players who think they are entitled to do whatever they please or even worse entitled to RP themselves out of a situation.

Edit: Would be interesting to see how the conversation between Anuv and TheMidnightRose looked like in ahelps.
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] istoprocent - Unjustified Ban

Post by oranges » #465615

All logs from https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/basil/ ... 9/game.log, with all irrelevant log entry lines removed

My notes and emphasis in BOLD

Admin chatter between morto/midnight and Istoprocent
Spoiler:
[2018-12-28 01:12:24.282] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: MortoSasye/(MortoSasye)->Istoprocent/(Istoprocent): Hello, as i asked last round, what was the name of the warden?
[2018-12-28 01:12:53.060] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Istoprocent/(Istoprocent)->MortoSasye/(MortoSasye): Warden was named Kate something. She might have just been incompetent as she never actively tried to prevent me from brigging Scuff.
[2018-12-28 01:13:31.873] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Istoprocent/(Istoprocent)->MortoSasye/(MortoSasye): Might have been Kate Lasagnya a catperson.
[2018-12-28 01:19:15.099] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge)->Istoprocent/(Krokodil): This seems like an ic issue, after i talked to both Thomas and Kate. I appreciate you ahelping anyway, and encourage you to do so in the future again if you notice similar behavior.
[2018-12-28 01:45:47.436] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner)->Istoprocent/(Krokodil): Hello, what happened between you and Janice Lean.
[2018-12-28 01:46:38.684] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Istoprocent/(Krokodil)->TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner): Janice broke into the brig and captains at round start, stole captain's spare, dropped it at Thomas Lasers feet at some point, caught Janice she had given herself all access anyway, Grand Theft, Cremated.
[2018-12-28 01:47:28.394] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Istoprocent/(Krokodil)->TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner): Rule 4 - act like an antag, get treated like an antag.#Since Janice ahelped it, she might be ban baiting.
[2018-12-28 01:50:12.383] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner)->Istoprocent/(Krokodil): Did you get approval to execute them? Did you discuss it with your fellow Sec?
[2018-12-28 01:51:05.194] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Istoprocent/(Krokodil)->TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner): We are not playing on Yog. Nobody needs any approval. Rule 4 says that anybody can do anything to the antags. She had committed a capital crime, so she was eligible for an execution.
[2018-12-28 01:52:26.168] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Istoprocent/(Krokodil)->TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner): I want to point out that excessive tiding (such as committing capital crimes without being an antag) and ahelping situation, where you have done something (ban baiting). Are against the rules and Janice should be punished for it.
[2018-12-28 01:54:33.210] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner)->Istoprocent/(Krokodil): I am going to let this drop, mainly due to neither of you being in the right, them for the crime and you for the straight execution. Only a head of staff can do executions or Security when approved by a Head of Staff, preferably the HoS. (You made the right call here, not sure what happened in adminbus but you should have stuck with this ruling)
[2018-12-28 01:54:54.119] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Istoprocent/(Krokodil)->TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner): Dont let this drop. Janice needs to be punished for ban baiting. (It was at this moment, that Istoprocent knew, he fucked up)
[2018-12-28 01:55:31.492] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Istoprocent/(Krokodil)->TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner): Anybody can valid anyone who is valid, thats why we have Rule 4. And sec is no exception.
[2018-12-28 01:57:29.780] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Istoprocent/(Krokodil)->TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner): False reports and excessive tiding is what we should be trying to abolish from the server.
[2018-12-28 02:05:08.705] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner)->Istoprocent/(Krokodil): Looking into it further and discussing it on the Adminbus, you will be getting a day ban from the server and a week ban from Sec. This is due to you going straight to 11 and cremating, which is permenant round removal for stealing the spare.
[2018-12-28 02:05:28.052] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Istoprocent/(Krokodil)->TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner): I will take it to the forums.
[2018-12-28 02:06:17.052] ADMINPRIVATE: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner) has created a temporary 1440 minutes server ban for Istoprocent.
[2018-12-28 02:06:40.034] ADMINPRIVATE: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner) has created a temporary 7 days role ban from 4 roles for Istoprocent. Roles: Head of Security, Warden, Detective, Security Officer
Anuv and Admins
Spoiler:
[2018-12-28 01:40:16.889] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #10: Anuv/(Janice Lean): Can the detective really cremate me for having all access - heard by 3 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[2018-12-28 01:44:04.135] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner)->Anuv/(Janice Lean): I will look into it
[2018-12-28 01:44:36.000] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Anuv/(Janice Lean)->TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner): Thank you. Tried talking, he didn't say a single thing. Shotgunned me, I knocked him down once to try and flee, then didn't resist. He didn't even cuff me, I could have ran. Then cremated me.
[2018-12-28 01:46:15.061] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner)->Anuv/(Janice Lean): How did you end up getting AA
[2018-12-28 01:46:39.555] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Anuv/(Janice Lean)->TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner): The spare was taken from the cap's locker early on in the shift
[2018-12-28 01:56:15.991] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner)->Anuv/(Janice Lean): Did you use the card for more access to yourself? or did you attempt to return the ID before the Det hunted you down
[2018-12-28 01:56:43.909] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Anuv/(Janice Lean)->TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner): I used it to give myself AA but I didn't go to the armory or used it to get more loot or anything
[2018-12-28 02:07:00.461] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner)->Anuv/(Janice Lean): This has been resolved
Last edited by oranges on Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Istoprocent1
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] istoprocent - Unjustified Ban

Post by Istoprocent1 » #465616

There it is Janice never admits guilt or gives full details to the admins on what really happened.

And oranges, TheMidnightRose made a huge blunder by getting into Space Law enforcement, because Space Law is not used to ban people, Main Rules and Headmin Policies are. My case is airtight.

Edit: Fixed it for you, oranges.
[quote="oranges"]
Spoiler:
[snip]
[2018-12-28 01:45:47.436] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner)->Istoprocent/(Krokodil): Hello, what happened between you and Janice Lean.
[2018-12-28 01:46:38.684] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Istoprocent/(Krokodil)->TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner): Janice broke into the brig and captains at round start, stole captain's spare, dropped it at Thomas Lasers feet at some point, caught Janice she had given herself all access anyway, Grand Theft, Cremated.
[2018-12-28 01:47:28.394] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Istoprocent/(Krokodil)->TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner): Rule 4 - act like an antag, get treated like an antag.#Since Janice ahelped it, she might be ban baiting.
[2018-12-28 01:50:12.383] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner)->Istoprocent/(Krokodil): Did you get approval to execute them? Did you discuss it with your fellow Sec? (This is where fuck up happened, instead of asking me for approval, they should have asked Janice if any of the things I said happened and either closed it as IC issue or punish Janice for ban baiting.)
[snip]
Last edited by Istoprocent1 on Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] istoprocent - Unjustified Ban

Post by Anuv » #465679

Istoprocent1 wrote:There it is Janice never admits guilt or gives full details to the admins on what really happened.

And oranges, TheMidnightRose made a huge blunder by getting into Space Law enforcement, because Space Law is not used to ban people, Main Rules and Headmin Policies are. My case is airtight.

Edit: Fixed it for you, oranges.
oranges wrote:
Spoiler:
[snip]
[2018-12-28 01:45:47.436] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner)->Istoprocent/(Krokodil): Hello, what happened between you and Janice Lean.
[2018-12-28 01:46:38.684] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Istoprocent/(Krokodil)->TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner): Janice broke into the brig and captains at round start, stole captain's spare, dropped it at Thomas Lasers feet at some point, caught Janice she had given herself all access anyway, Grand Theft, Cremated.
[2018-12-28 01:47:28.394] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Istoprocent/(Krokodil)->TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner): Rule 4 - act like an antag, get treated like an antag.#Since Janice ahelped it, she might be ban baiting.
[2018-12-28 01:50:12.383] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner)->Istoprocent/(Krokodil): Did you get approval to execute them? Did you discuss it with your fellow Sec? (This is where fuck up happened, instead of asking me for approval, they should have asked Janice if any of the things I said happened and either closed it as IC issue or punish Janice for ban baiting.)
[snip]
There it is. I 1) Correctly did ask if a detective can cremate me for getting AA 2) Said that I took the AA from the caps locker and used it to give it to myself so yes thus I was in his office at the time and 3) Gave all of the details that I thought were needed for my question in the given situation. I wasn't baiting. I was asking about a punishment.

Security gets ahelped by the crew for their conduct and punishments all the time. The rules literally tell you to ahelp if you think a punishment was unfair. That's what happened. I also ahelp for general questions about ingame stuff that I don't know the answer to all the time (Can I do ____ now that I'm purged by the captain? Can I bomb this cult base even though it's close to medbay? Can the AI do ____ even though he's Asimov?). That's what I did.

Your ahelp replies are nothing but you foaming at the mouth about "valids" and "antags" and rule 4. It's clearly all you care about. If I deserve punishment I'll take it. But I still stand by my own actions. I've been on Bagil over a year without any issues because I know there's more to SS13 than valids and barely skirting under rule 1 by being a dick to someone because you have a small exception in the rules that says you can. Even in your own appeal you want blood. You want your valids. Your behavior as a whole is the reason you're now here, when it should have been a minor incident, and clearly you fail to see that.
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] istoprocent - Unjustified Ban

Post by Not-Dorsidarf » #465682

:? It seems fishy to me that istoprocent tries to defend themself with "they committed a capital crime, spacelaw says i can kill", then when someone points out that actually under spacelaw he isn't allowed to execute and that it was a murder under spacelaw he starts screaming that "reee spacelaw isnt enforceable, admin shitters"
Image
Image
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please. 🖕🖕🖕
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] istoprocent - Unjustified Ban

Post by Istoprocent1 » #465684

Not-Dorsidarf wrote::? It seems fishy to me that istoprocent tries to defend themself with "they committed a capital crime, spacelaw says i can kill", then when someone points out that actually under spacelaw he isn't allowed to execute and that it was a murder under spacelaw he starts screaming that "reee spacelaw isnt enforceable, admin shitters"
There is nothing fishy. If you read the whole thread you would have understood that I use Space Law as a guide to figure out whether people are eligible for Rule 4, since there is no "definitive valid guide". I also pointed out that Capital Crimes usually make it safe to Rule 4.

Then again it turned out that there were more reasons the round removal was justified, when we started reading the rules.

Edit: Obviously I don't go around killing people, this time i chose to do it, because Janice was being a dick and tiding for no reason. Like one of the poster said, that its messed up that I end up not being able to play the game for doing my job, while an engineer breaking into places and not doing theirs can still enjoy playing the game.

And Anuv, you had the opportunity to stop the admin and say "This was a question, yo, I did bunch of stuff that would make me an antag, thus no action is needed.", yet you started telling how you were dragged into the cremator and randomly killed for "just having all access".
Last edited by Istoprocent1 on Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] istoprocent - Unjustified Ban

Post by Steelpoint » #465686

Stealing all access, and possibly attempting to distribute it to other members of the crew, is amongst one of the most disruptive actions any person can do to screw up a round, more so for Security. In the past I've never seen admins be concerned about people who break into the Caps Office, and then getting permed, tossed on the gulag or executed, draw stray eyes. The actions are essentially advertising you are acting like an antagonist.

If the Detective had a Head of Security to report to then they should've deferred to them, but I don't recall any rules in that regard that you need permission to execute anyone from a superior if the individual warrents authorization to be executed in the first place, and anyone using space law as justification for OOC rulings should be laughed at.
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] istoprocent - Unjustified Ban

Post by Dax Dupont » #465687

Players who attempt to break into the captain's office, head of personnel's office, or the bridge at or near roundstart for no legitimate reason put themselves at risk for being legitimately killed by the captain, heads of staff, or security.
As much as I feel isopresent goes overboard most of the time, this seems valid.

Someone breaking into the captains office opens you up for getting killed by sec. If sec executes someone their body gets throw in the execution chamber or in a locker generally.

The real argument here is, do we count detectives as part of security or not. There's a policy thread to that effect going on right now because as an admin I honestly don't know since this is a case of technicalities. Most players think they are sec as detective since they (rightfully?) ignore the fluff text and for instance on meta the detective office is in sec.

Did Janice being a 'known shitter' outside of this round have any affect on your judgement iso?
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] istoprocent - Unjustified Ban

Post by Steelpoint » #465688

The Detective is apart of Security, his office being returned to the Brig on Boxstation solidified that. He has sec channel access, he has access to the brig (I don't know if he has jail cell access tho), everything in the game points to him being a member of security.

I do not think it would be fair for us to redefine arbitrarily that the Detective is suddenly no longer a member of Sec and punish isto because of that. The Detective's status in Security is, I believe, irrelevant to this case.
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] istoprocent - Unjustified Ban

Post by Istoprocent1 » #465689

Dax Dupont wrote:Did Janice being a 'known shitter' outside of this round have any affect on your judgement iso?
Never said Janice was a "known" shitter. I have never had an experience with Janice that would make me want to metagrudge her in any shape or form and even now, if she gets punished for misrepresenting information and ban baiting I won't hold any grudges.

The question will never be if the Detective is or is not a part of the security, Rule 4 applies to everyone equally and Security Policy & Precedents 2 confirms that Rule 4 of the main rules also apply to security. Security are not exceptions to the rule where non-antagonists can do anything they want, as per rule 4, to antagonists.
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] istoprocent - Unjustified Ban

Post by DrunkenMatey » #465714

The most loathsome part of all this is isto insisting that Janice be punished for ahelping an unusual situation. People are allowed to ahelp you without it being ban-baiting. Regardless of the outcome of an ahelp or this thread, it is utter shit on your end to be demanding punishment against a player for doing an ahelp asking an admin to take a look at a situation; if you go down that road then what is the conclusion? Every single ahelp results in either a ban for rule breaking or a ban for ban-baiting? that isn't how it works. You can dispute the decision of the admin as you are doing, but don't go demanding bans. Ban-baiting is taken seriously and admins do look into it when handling situations. If this had been a ban-bait the ahelp would have been more like "HALP! FUCKIN LIGGER JUST CREMATED ME FOR NO REASON! LITERALLY NO REASON!" and then the chat logs would show them breaking into caps office and all that and then rather than them begging for their life the entire way to the crematorium they likely would have been dead silent or egging you on.
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] istoprocent - Unjustified Ban

Post by Istoprocent1 » #465742

Spoiler:
DrunkenMatey wrote:The most loathsome part of all this is isto insisting that Janice be punished for ahelping an unusual situation. People are allowed to ahelp you without it being ban-baiting. Regardless of the outcome of an ahelp or this thread, it is utter shit on your end to be demanding punishment against a player for doing an ahelp asking an admin to take a look at a situation; if you go down that road then what is the conclusion? Every single ahelp results in either a ban for rule breaking or a ban for ban-baiting? that isn't how it works. You can dispute the decision of the admin as you are doing, but don't go demanding bans. Ban-baiting is taken seriously and admins do look into it when handling situations. If this had been a ban-bait the ahelp would have been more like "HALP! FUCKIN LIGGER JUST CREMATED ME FOR NO REASON! LITERALLY NO REASON!" and then the chat logs would show them breaking into caps office and all that and then rather than them begging for their life the entire way to the crematorium they likely would have been dead silent or egging you on.
The shitty part is that I was not able to play the game for the full duration of the ban and am still banned from security jobs. People need to be responsible for their actions. Janice turned a question into an ahelp, then talked an admin into punishing me by using indirect language and making it appear that "all she did was give herself all access". Admin is at fault equally as he was not being objective and whether it was honest mistake, neglect or malice a player was barred from playing the game, even if said player had no prior history of misconduct and did nothing wrong by the rules.

@Headmins, can this be resolved?
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] istoprocent - Unjustified Ban

Post by actioninja » #465758

Istoprocent1 wrote:Janice turned a question into an ahelp,
That is literally one of the entire purposes of ahelp existing. Asking a question without disclosing round info to all of ooc. I've used ahelp in this manner a shitload of times and never even gotten as much as a warning for it. The wiki page for definining ahelp has it written that you can use it to ask questions.
You are not helping your case here.
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] istoprocent - Unjustified Ban

Post by Istoprocent1 » #465759

actioninja wrote:
Istoprocent1 wrote:Janice turned a question into an ahelp,
That is literally one of the entire purposes of ahelp existing. Asking a question without disclosing round info to all of ooc. I've used ahelp in this manner a shitload of times and never even gotten as much as a warning for it. The wiki page for definining ahelp has it written that you can use it to ask questions.
You are not helping your case here.
And you are peanut posting in a Ban Appeal thread, which you have no connection to.

My comments in bold.
Spoiler:
oranges wrote: Anuv and Admins
Spoiler:
[2018-12-28 01:40:16.889] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #10: Anuv/(Janice Lean): Can the detective really cremate me for having all access - heard by 3 non-AFK admins who have +BAN. (Question)
[2018-12-28 01:44:04.135] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner)->Anuv/(Janice Lean): I will look into it
[2018-12-28 01:44:36.000] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Anuv/(Janice Lean)->TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner): Thank you. Tried talking, he didn't say a single thing. Shotgunned me, I knocked him down once to try and flee, then didn't resist. He didn't even cuff me, I could have ran. Then cremated me. (Question turned into ahelp, where Janice withholds important information of her antagonistic actions. Sidenote: You didn't stop resisting - you were stunlocked after that, because if I recall correctly my only pair of cuffs were on the mime and that was another reason the dialogue was kept short. Aside from that there was another dude fiddling with the mime who was bucklecuffed to chapel's chair for the duration of our interaction, which meant it had to be quick and without any errors on my part.)
[2018-12-28 01:46:15.061] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner)->Anuv/(Janice Lean): How did you end up getting AA
[2018-12-28 01:46:39.555] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Anuv/(Janice Lean)->TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner): The spare was taken from the cap's locker early on in the shift (Skirting around the fact that she was in the bridge at round start and related to the theft of the spare by using vague and indirect language)
[2018-12-28 01:56:15.991] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner)->Anuv/(Janice Lean): Did you use the card for more access to yourself? or did you attempt to return the ID before the Det hunted you down
[2018-12-28 01:56:43.909] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Anuv/(Janice Lean)->TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner): I used it to give myself AA but I didn't go to the armory or used it to get more loot or anything
[2018-12-28 02:07:00.461] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner)->Anuv/(Janice Lean): This has been resolved
As pointed out before, at no point made Janice an effort to stop the admin on his tracks by saying that it was just a question and not an ahelp, because she was guilty of acting like an antagonist and had it coming. Which is why it is ban baiting.

@Headmins, can we get this resolved before other peanut posters trash this further? This case is crystal clear.

I do understand that headmins may have a dog in this race as they recommended actions over discord as lmwevil pointed out. Whether they were given the full story or not by TheMidnightRose or whether there was bias or not is up for debate for the admin team.
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] istoprocent - Unjustified Ban

Post by lmwevil » #465761

there has been a lot of peanut posts holy heck

clarification: the headmins made a verdict based on what rose communicated in adminbus, it should be noted that it wasn't exactly instruction nor do i know how much they knew at the time

now on that note this thread appears to be derailed hard, gonna lock it until rose or the headmins formulate a reply
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] istoprocent - Unjustified Ban

Post by Nervere » #466995

Space law can't be used as justification to create/defend bans, and neither can it be used to defend your actions. It's a roleplaying suggestion, but it has no relevance to our rules. Speaking of Space Law, the page for it says this, and everyone who cited it in this thread should keep it in mind: If you cite Space Law in an adminhelp or anywhere outside IC communications, you will be laughed at. That being said, this ban was less about space law and more about how you played security. What I mean by this isn't that you have a poor history with security and this was just another run-in with it - in fact you have no prior administrative history as security, even if your playstyle is rather questionable.

The issue is more that you decided to cremate someone for having all access, about 20 minutes after they grabbed it, because it's a capital offense under Space Law. We expect players in security roles to have a better understanding of punishments for people than valid vs. not valid. Having all access is a pretty serious offense, but it doesn't warrant instant cremation. It's telling how you didn't take time to attempt to process the prisoner, or even just kill them without cremating them. It was a jump from stunning to permanent round removal. You use rule 4 to justify what you did, but the act of possessing all access is not in itself acting like an antagonsit. This is not good faith security play, and it's not the sort of behavior that we want to encourage, either.

The biggest defense here for your actions is rule 1 precedent 5:
Players who attempt to break into the captain's office, head of personnel's office, or the bridge at or near roundstart for no legitimate reason put themselves at risk for being legitimately killed by the captain, heads of staff, or security.
This is relevant as Janice was part of a group of people who busted the captain's locker open in bridge near the start of the round.
The reason why we have this protection in place for heads of staff and security is because there's always that round where some shitter hacks open some door in bridge or captain's quarters and all hell breaks loose. In situations like these, security needs the extra leeway to defend themselves and heads of staff from people breaking in. However, this same privilege granted to security does not carry over 15-20 minutes after the crime has happened, especially if the person has not acted antagonistic since then. Sure, the criminal is still open to full punishment - the factor of time does not change this. However, taking it upon yourself to stun + cremate them as soon as you find them is excessive behavior that stems from approaching the game from a validhunting mindset. Such an approach to the situation wasn't the right response and, dare I say, violated the spirit of the precedent.

As for Anuv's involvement in this, there is no fault to be had in his part. He ahelped your actions in a situation that he thought was excessive and unreasonable. His ahelp was phrased as a question and his actions seem to be in good faith. I would likely have considered Anuv's ahelp banbaiting if he were acting antagonistic for the greater part of the round, but that's not the case. Regardless, your unrelenting zeal to see Anuv punished for ahelping makes this seem like this thread was partially motivated by the desire to have him banned. This isn't what this forum is for, ban requests are closed and it's going to stay that way.

Your appeal is denied.
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