Adding to the case:
Nervere wrote:Space law can't be used as justification to create/defend bans, and neither can it be used to defend your actions. It's a roleplaying suggestion, but it has no relevance to our rules. Speaking of Space Law, the page for it says this, and everyone who cited it in this thread should keep it in mind: If you cite Space Law in an adminhelp or anywhere outside IC communications, you will be laughed at. That being said, this ban was less about space law and more about how you played security. What I mean by this isn't that you have a poor history with security and this was just another run-in with it - in fact you have no prior administrative history as security, even if your playstyle is rather questionable.
Space Law was used indirectly to figure out what counts as "acting like an antag" and to make sure things were fair before evoking Rule 4 on a player. If I had ever made the mistake of removing somebody from the game unjustly, then I would have been long banned, but since that's not the case as my history is clean, then what is this ban about?
Nervere wrote:The issue is more that you decided to cremate someone for having all access, about 20 minutes after they grabbed it, because it's a capital offense under Space Law. We expect players in security roles to have a better understanding of punishments for people than valid vs. not valid. Having all access is a pretty serious offense, but it doesn't warrant instant cremation. It's telling how you didn't take time to attempt to process the prisoner, or even just kill them without cremating them. It was a jump from stunning to permanent round removal. You use rule 4 to justify what you did, but the act of possessing all access is not in itself acting like an antagonsit. This is not good faith security play, and it's not the sort of behavior that we want to encourage, either.
I spent ~20 minutes to track down and capture 2 out of 3 original "Bridge Squad", because they were on the run. It was never about "just having All Access". There was nothing to process as I was in the Chapel with a cuffed mime and Janice happened to be there as well. My pair of handcuffs were on the Mime:
-snip- (Prior lines from Attack.txt removed)
[2018-12-28 01:36:24.666] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has handcuffed JestonXi/(Mr Beret) (NEWHP: 39.1) (Central Primary Hallway (150, 148, 2))
-snip- (Rest of the lines from Attack.txt removed)
-snip- (Prior lines from Attack.txt removed, my last interaction with the Mime, who was stripped down after I found the cult dagger)
[2018-12-28 01:37:17.220] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has stripped the radio headset off JestonXi/(Mr Beret) (NEWHP: 37.1) (Brig (201, 130, 2))
-snip- (Rest of the lines from Attack.txt removed)
-snip- (Prior lines from Attack.txt removed, my processing of Janice)
[2018-12-28 01:38:11.358] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has stripped PDA-Janice Lean (Gamer) off Anuv/(Janice Lean) (NEWHP: 62) (Chapel (139, 56, 2))
-snip- (Rest of the lines from Attack.txt removed)
-snip- (Prior lines from Attack.txt removed, my processing of Janice)
[2018-12-28 01:38:13.566] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has stripped the satchel off Anuv/(Janice Lean) (NEWHP: 62) (Chapel (139, 56, 2))
-snip- (Rest of the lines from Attack.txt removed)
-snip- (Prior lines from Attack.txt removed)
[2018-12-28 01:38:15.802] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has stunned Anuv/(Janice Lean) (NEWHP: 62) (Chapel (139, 56, 2))
-snip- (Rest of the lines from Attack.txt removed, 3 more stuns follow in short succession as I had no cuffs and was already busy handling the Mime)
-snip- (Prior lines from Attack.txt removed)
[2018-12-28 01:39:01.183] ATTACK: Anuv/(Janice Lean) has leg sweeped Istoprocent/(Krokodil) (NEWHP: 95) (Chapel Office (129, 55, 2))
-snip- (Rest of the lines from Attack.txt removed, was short on a stun and got instantly legsweeped by Janice)
-snip- (Prior lines from Attack.txt removed, managed to use Rubbershots to get Janice, followed by 5 stuns with Baton)
[2018-12-28 01:39:59.916] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has cremated Anuv/(Janice Lean) (NEWHP: 57.4) (Chapel Office (130, 52, 2))
-snip- (Rest of the lines from Attack.txt removed)
As the Janice situation was being handled, a wild heavy RP situation appears.
-snip- (Prior lines from Attack.txt removed)
[2018-12-28 01:39:33.933] ATTACK: Ghom/(Scuff Gerald) has attacked JestonXi/(Mr Beret) with fire axe (Wielded)[DC] (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 13.1) (Chapel (138, 55, 2))
-snip- (Lines between those two events removed)
[2018-12-28 01:39:52.106] ATTACK: Ghom/(Scuff Gerald) has attacked JestonXi/(Mr Beret) with fire axe (Wielded)[DC] (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -210.1) (Chapel (139, 57, 2))
-snip- (Rest of the lines from Attack.txt removed, this was the brief RP encounter for the bucklecuffed Mime).
-snip- (Prior lines from Attack.txt removed)
[2018-12-28 01:40:38.151] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has cremated JestonXi/(Mr Beret) (NEWHP: -210.1) (Chapel Office (130, 52, 2))
-snip- (Rest of the lines from Attack.txt removed)
Nervere wrote:This is relevant as Janice was part of a group of people who busted the captain's locker open in bridge near the start of the round.
The reason why we have this protection in place for heads of staff and security is because there's always that round where some shitter hacks open some door in bridge or captain's quarters and all hell breaks loose. In situations like these, security needs the extra leeway to defend themselves and heads of staff from people breaking in. However, this same privilege granted to security does not carry over 15-20 minutes after the crime has happened, especially if the person has not acted antagonistic since then. Sure, the criminal is still open to full punishment - the factor of time does not change this. However, taking it upon yourself to stun + cremate them as soon as you find them is excessive behavior that stems from approaching the game from a validhunting mindset. Such an approach to the situation wasn't the right response and, dare I say, violated the spirit of the precedent.
This point is moot, because they never came to brig willingly and had to be hunted down, which took around 20 minutes. Saying that, if they break into the captain's office and stole high risk items is somehow justifiable if they weren't caught on the spot is being in bad faith.
Nervere wrote:As for Anuv's involvement in this, there is no fault to be had in his part. He ahelped your actions in a situation that he thought was excessive and unreasonable. His ahelp was phrased as a question and his actions seem to be in good faith. I would likely have considered Anuv's ahelp banbaiting if he were acting antagonistic for the greater part of the round, but that's not the case. Regardless, your unrelenting zeal to see Anuv punished for ahelping makes this seem like this thread was partially motivated by the desire to have him banned. This isn't what this forum is for, ban requests are closed and it's going to stay that way.
Your appeal is denied.
It was a ban appeal, not a ban requrest. I was expecting Janice to be held to the same standard as other players, since I was being arbitrarily banned for a situation that another player started and had no right to ahelp. The question Janice should have asked, if any would have had to be in the lines of "Can a player be cremated, if they break into the captain's office at or near the start of the round without any IC justification, steal the spare and distribute it among the crew?" and the answer should have been in the lines of "Yes." *ticket closed*, but that was not the case. I should have not been neither noted or banned to begin with, because I acted in good faith and everything was according to the rules, hence Rule 0 Ban.
I had no previous run-ins with Janice, all I wanted was people to be held to the same standard as others.
Edit: Expecting a player to know all the ins and outs of the rules and policies, while allowing admins to ban people without a rhyme or reason is pretty unjust, if not malicious. Aside from that I am now noted and banning me in the future will be easier as there is a "record" of me getting banned, even though the ban clearly being unjust.
Edit 2:
-snip- (Prior lines from Attack.txt removed)
[2018-12-28 01:33:06.712] ATTACK: Anuv/(Janice Lean) has grabbed (Krav Maga) Bigfatbananacyclops/(Mike Murdock) (NEWHP: 95) (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (149, 189, 2))
-snip- (Rest of the lines from Attack. txt removed, Janice used a Leg Sweep on me, which is not a part of the normal moveset and I am pretty certain that she did not have Krav Maga gloves, where did that come from?)
-snip- (Prior lines from Attack.txt removed)
[2018-12-28 01:39:01.183] ATTACK: Anuv/(Janice Lean) has leg sweeped Istoprocent/(Krokodil) (NEWHP: 95) (Chapel Office (129, 55, 2))
-snip- (Rest of the lines from Attack.txt removed, was short on a stun and got instantly legsweeped by Janice)
