2k19 /pol/ - European Spring edition

[Incomptinence]

About four much more minor terrorist incidents have occurred in the middle east since the attack.

It's a plain awful world we live in these things happen all the time to the point where people barely keep track of much but the numbers.

Now I understand the crackdown that will probably result in Australia and New Zealand after this might have happened anyway because our polies have zero respect for the public and shitty activist journos have free reign in bumfuck nowhere places like ours.

There should be the usual calls from for forgiveness over the attack though, not that I think it does any good personally but if someone did it would the ethical course of action for them rather than demanding we clockwork orange everyone.

[Grazyn]

I'm sure he was completely serious when he said Pakistan is great, just as he was when he asked people to subscribe to pewdiepie after the shooting. Guy sure looks stable and reliable, definitely not a /pol/ troll through and through. I hope theý found one post of him saying he voted for Hillary

[Incomptinence]

I think he is an accelerationist I would not blink an eye if my government (feebly) blocked all the chan sites now.
I think maybe he thought the utopian absolutely never going to happen ethno state is more likely to happen if everyone gets their shit fucked up other /pol/ trolls included.
All the references aren't going to come off as ironic to the public and they will use it as a hitlist of scary internet things to expunge.

[Grazyn]

I think I'm with the general public on this one, there is a point where it's hard to distinguish between what's ironic and what isn't. Are channers ironic when they advocate for the ethnostate and extermination of brown people? Some are, but this guy literally killed brown people so it clearly wasn't ironic. I've seen a lot of shootings but never one so meme-fueled, he was one Pepe mask away from being the literal embodiment of /pol/. Why would the public even waste time to filter the ironic from the deranged? Just ban it all and let God sort it out.

[XSI]

Because you can't ban it all
Not only would that just mean new ones will be made, it would also be basically thoughtcrime and you'd punish people for liking the wrong things

[Grazyn]

Ban is not the same thing as criminal punishment. The only objection I can see is that banning will push those people underground on more remote chat groups and forums, but then again, this guy was pretty adamant about what he was going to do. Those writings on the guns? Apparently, he had been asking people on /pol/ for suggestions, that's why he wrote names from legendary muslim-slaying Georgian knights to the Italian guy who shot a bunch of blacks one year ago. But the police didn't get involved anyway, so I don't see how banning would make those people "harder to catch"

[XSI]

If there is no punishment for posting banned stuff, someone will write a bot to repost it as soon as it is removed.
And then the ban is useless

To ban something, there needs to be a punishment for breaking the ban. Otherwise it's just whoever writes the better script to post/remove shit wins. And the remove script will always be worse and bring bad PR to the user for removing unrelated but similar looking(To a script) content that doesn't violate anything

[Incomptinence]

Not really been keeping apace of how the UK police operate huh?
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/uk/manchester-police-arrest-man-nz-attack-praise/
Not a one off or the only thing they do it for I see them as a bit a prototype for police in other nations personally.

Even without legal ramifications people will coordinate to extra legally fuck with you up to and including denial of service by banking and credit institutions.

[Grazyn]

If there is no punishment for posting banned stuff, someone will write a bot to repost it as soon as it is removed.
And then the ban is useless

To ban something, there needs to be a punishment for breaking the ban. Otherwise it's just whoever writes the better script to post/remove shit wins. And the remove script will always be worse and bring bad PR to the user for removing unrelated but similar looking(To a script) content that doesn't violate anything

That's the same argument I see applied to everything from global warming to butt-washing: "you can't 100% remove something so you may as well not do anything at all"
Pornography isn't allowed on this website, yet I don't see bots robospamming porn everywhere, because truth is, most people won't go out of their way to break a server's rule and will just look for the easiest and most comfortable echo chamber they can find.
What I mean is, if someone is literally planning a mass shooting on your website and you don't do anything because "muh free speech" and "muh irony", you should be held liable.

[Incomptinence]

Apparently he posted it 10 minutes before while in transit.
You ever seen the movie watchmen? It was kinda like that.

Ironic was kind of the wrong word he was cynical, cynical about anyone not quite on his level savagery being capable of achieving anything hence why the manifesto is basically crafted to make anyone right but not right enough for him come under attack by insincere unwanted one way association.

Accelerationists come in several stripes, basically all believe that if the world burns in back and forth of non stop violence and society literally collapses everyone will raise their heads from the piles of billions of corpses and go "GEE CRIKEY THAT ONE TERRORIST HAD A GREAT IDEA OF HOW SOCIETY SHOULD BE" and it will all naturally go toward utopia.
They want to be Gavrilo Princip.
It is like how aum shinrikyo wanted to start WW3.

[XSI]

People only avoid breaking the rules if they have alternatives
Yeah, there's no porn on here. But there's porn on many other sites online

If there was a global no-porn rule on the internet, people would post it places just to fuck with whoever has to moderate it. Hell, even with alternatives people can do that. Tumblr STILL has porn, and users actively trying to fuck with the detection algoritm to post porn just because they're pissed at Tumblr for banning porn
Banning 'offensive memes' or 'threats of violence' will go poorly because 'offensive' is subjective, and 'threats of violence' are incredibly common and many of them are known, reported to law and then ignored. So any extra enforcement will quickly be seen as biased, which will of course fan the flames even harder
Of course if some shit posts "Going to go shoot up this place", then it should absolutely be investigated and their info given to the cops, but 'threats of violence' is usually applied to a lot more than that

[ShadowDimentio]

I find it really sad that every rightist politician from Australia to Italy is saying the same thing: "Yes it is tragic but let us not forget that Muslims are and always will be the greatest threat to our country and civilization"

I'm glad I'm not Muslim because oh boy, are they gonna have some tough times in the next 10-20 years.

Innocent people shouldn't be shot but Islam and Muslims are backwards and savage and have no place in civilized society IMO

[Rustledjimm]

I find it really sad that every rightist politician from Australia to Italy is saying the same thing: "Yes it is tragic but let us not forget that Muslims are and always will be the greatest threat to our country and civilization"

I'm glad I'm not Muslim because oh boy, are they gonna have some tough times in the next 10-20 years.

Innocent people shouldn't be shot but Islam and Muslims are backwards and savage and have no place in civilized society IMO

Unless you say the same for every Abrahamic Religion you're being a hypocrite.

[ColonicAcid]

How many muslims and arabs do you know personally dimentio or are you just saying this purely off what you've read/seen on the news?

[ShadowDimentio]

Innocent people shouldn't be shot but Islam and Muslims are backwards and savage and have no place in civilized society IMO

Unless you say the same for every Abrahamic Religion you're being a hypocrite.

Christians don't Allahu Akbar on anywhere near the same level as Muslims.

[Rustledjimm]

Innocent people shouldn't be shot but Islam and Muslims are backwards and savage and have no place in civilized society IMO

Unless you say the same for every Abrahamic Religion you're being a hypocrite.

Christians don't Allahu Akbar on anywhere near the same level as Muslims.

So you don't agree all Abrahamic religions are just as bad as each other and you are a hypocrite?

[ShadowDimentio]

Yeah, I do disagree. The Abrahamic religions are definitely not as bad as each other.

[Rustledjimm]

Thank you for confirming you're a hypocrite

[ColonicAcid]

Innocent people shouldn't be shot but Islam and Muslims are backwards and savage and have no place in civilized society IMO

Unless you say the same for every Abrahamic Religion you're being a hypocrite.

Christians don't Allahu Akbar on anywhere near the same level as Muslims.

Majority of terrorist attacks is arab on arab.

Just like majority of black crime is black on black.

Thus as a pasty white man you have more of a chance to die in a plane crash than a terrorist attack. So please explain to me in detail how people who worship Islam can't follow western standards when many have and many more will.

[Grazyn]

It's a stupid argument. Islamic terrorists don't kill westerners for fun, they kill them in retaliation for what the West allegedly did to their countries. So saying "yes killing Muslims is bad BUT let's not forget they killed a lot of us" is just playing the same tune as them.

[ohnopigeons]

This is an epic meme and I want to die.

[Super Aggro Crag]

i disagree with you

Can you elaborate

muslims aren't going to have "a tough time"

[Grazyn]

i disagree with you

Can you elaborate

muslims aren't going to have "a tough time"

I really want you to be right

[Super Aggro Crag]

are you muslim or something

[ColonicAcid]

We're european so yes

[Grazyn]

are you muslim or something

I'm a human being

[ShadowDimentio]

Majority of terrorist attacks is arab on arab.

Just like majority of black crime is black on black.

Thus as a pasty white man you have more of a chance to die in a plane crash than a terrorist attack. So please explain to me in detail how people who worship Islam can't follow western standards when many have and many more will.

I'm also unlikely to die from the Flu, but I still go get my shots.

It's worth nothing that the Muslims capable of not shitting up the West are, by every measure, "bad" Muslims (read: not particularly devout). And even then, they're still very tremendously backwards in many regards-- I saw poll data of British Muslims once where 1/3 of them thought suicide bombing was "sometimes justifiable".

[XSI]

Have an article thingy
https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2019/03/g ... lts/80008/

Seems to me like it's a mission accomplished according to his manifesto (Partial quote near the end). Censorship, everyone losing their minds and everything going further along. Instead of people just taking a step back and going "That's fucked up. Lets not be dicks about it" everyone is out for blood
As per usual

[Grazyn]

That's exactly how things work here as well. Want a feature removed? Abuse it in game and someone will instantly make a removal PR. A lot of years old features were removed this way. It's annoying, but what else can you do? If you ignore it, the guy will keep abusing it and ruin everyone's rounds.

Society isn't perfect, there are nice features that are nevertheless prone to be abused. The dicks are those who abuse them to try and get them removed, not those who are forced to intervene to ensure everyone else can still have fun.

[XSI]

And then a few years later people wonder why the features are gone, and why they're not enjoying it anymore
And then they'll start a movement to change things back or they leave entirely

[Grazyn]

The trick is balancing fun while keeping potential for abuse down to a minimum. It's not easy.

I'm pissed I can't bring my own microbrew aboard a plane after the foiled plot of 2006, but I'm not saying "see, changing our way of life was exactly what terrorists wanted! You should risk the lives of thousands rather than ban a single bottle of water from a plane!"
That's the same thing as saying "yes you lost your 2-year old son in the shooting, but think of the neckbeards who can't easily find the video to masturbate on and all the articles where they pin the blame on Muslims not being indicized on Google! Freedom of speech is the real victim here!"

I remember after 9/11, all the wars with thousands of death, global surveillance, extraordinary renditions, torture, incarceration without due process, basic human rights waived in the name of the war on terror, and those who dared say "you're destroying freedom and democracy, that's exactly what terrorists wanted" were called "unpatriotic" and "traitors". I guess I'm a little desensitized by now and can't really feel the plight of neonazis having a little trouble in finding a platform to organize mass shootings.

[XSI]

Except we need to roll back all that shit too
No censoring shit, but also no bombing entire countries into dust because someone else in the general region was involved in a terror plot, no fucking with people's basic rights, and so on

Going to have to say stop at some point and then start pushing back. The further it gets pushed to authoritarian ideas, the more work will need to be done to get back to a reasonable world

[oranges]

you morons dont' even know what you're talking about

[Incomptinence]

Oh you might want to take down singulo permanently oranges it is pretty low activity and not worth NZ police censorship warrants demanding user data not that I think it stores much of that.

[Lumbermancer]

here we go again...

[Grazyn]

I hope that's not where XSI lives

[ColonicAcid]

Majority of terrorist attacks is arab on arab.

Just like majority of black crime is black on black.

Thus as a pasty white man you have more of a chance to die in a plane crash than a terrorist attack. So please explain to me in detail how people who worship Islam can't follow western standards when many have and many more will.

I'm also unlikely to die from the Flu, but I still go get my shots.

It's worth nothing that the Muslims capable of not shitting up the West are, by every measure, "bad" Muslims (read: not particularly devout). And even then, they're still very tremendously backwards in many regards-- I saw poll data of British Muslims once where 1/3 of them thought suicide bombing was "sometimes justifiable".

70% of Muslims in the UK believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 15% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.

So you're not only incapable of basic english comprehension but your math skills are also dog shit.

Name a more iconic than islamophobes and misquoting/misrepresenting pew research statistics.

Also the fact that 24% said it could be justified is meaningless because we have no stats of the general populations opinion on it. I'm sure if western peoples values were being threatened by foreign powers they too would be absolutely fine with injuring civilians or y'all just forgetting the dresden fire bombing or the atomic bombs?

We love to act high and mighty in our INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS tower of western values but as soon as push comes to shove we get on the same bullshit as everyone else.

[Lumbermancer]

I hope that's not where XSI lives

He's from North Holland, north of Utrecht. Hopefully all is well.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Dutch media is reporting the shooting suspect as a Turk.

[XSI]

Speaking of Utrecht
Shooter got at least 3 killed at public transit there, can't find any news on it yet because our news tries to figure out what's going on before posting it somewhere(usually). They're not better on the being biased aspect, but they're in the open about their biases so eh?

I'm not likely to be anywhere near any sort of shooting since I live on the very edge of town and I don't often go anywhere that would within reason be targeted anyway. I'll be fine even if there's a shooting in the exact town I live in.
As for statistics on Islam, there have been a shitload of those. But as it turns out, immigrants to the west actually get a lot more moderate in most cases. Or they are the moderates moving somewhere that better represents their view of life. The extremists tend to come from extremist parents who were somehow allowed to migrate to the west, or from (mainly Saudi-funded) mosques that bring in (mostly Saudi) foreign imams to speak there. I would be wary of any statistics that doesn't separate muslims by their version of Islam, it's as different as catholics, mormons and protestants and I am certain that it has an effect on how they view certain acts and certain parts of scripture. With national statistics you can sort of get an idea, and it isn't pretty in most cases, but it's still an important distinction

[Super Aggro Crag]

Glad you're okay dude.

[ShadowDimentio]

We love to act high and mighty in our INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS tower of western values but as soon as push comes to shove we get on the same bullshit as everyone else.

>Terrorist attacks committed by muslims across the globe are the same as the US nuking Japan to force them to surrender instead of engaging in a long and bloody land war that'd have killed dramatically more people

M-muh cultural reletavism.

The excuses people make for muslims to deflect any criticism of them is hilarious. "But terrorist attacks are mostly arab on arab!" "But they CAN adopt western values!" "But we're just the same!" "ISLAMOPHOBE!"

[Rustledjimm]

Most Irish terror attacks were in Ireland against other Irish.

[ShadowDimentio]

Yeah, most crimes in general are committed against other people in your same ethnic group. Doubt that's any consolation to the victims, though.

[ColonicAcid]

>he genuinely believes the atomic bomb was what forced japan to surrender and not the fact that the ussr declared war on japan.

lmfao

[XSI]

The nukes were for pushing the surrender further
Japan didn't want to accept unconditional surrender, even if they wanted to surrender

So they got nuked until they said that they'd surrender unconditionally

[ColonicAcid]

i was being facetious but in my honest opinion the atomic bombs did not really sway the japanese high commands opinion as much as the soviets declaring war. The atomic bomb caused catastrophic damages but it also did the exact same thing as carpet bombing would've done just in a smaller timeframe. Japan knew that america would absolutely bomb the shit out of its homeland and they had been doing it for a good while.

It's a great tale to say that america used the atomic bomb for peace purposes but in reality it was more for gunboat diplomacy, "look at our new shiny weapon that we hopefully will never have to use!!!!!"

https://apjjf.org/-Tsuyoshi-Hasegawa/2501/article.html

[ColonicAcid]

but please dimentio tell me how indiscriminate aerial bombing of civilian areas is anyway different from indiscrimnate suicide bombing of civilian areas.

[ohnopigeons]

That's why they didn't surrender after the first bombing. I share your sentiment that the devastation of the atomic bomb is overrated especially when more people died in the Tokyo firebombing raids than either of the nukings. But when a single bomb can destroy a whole city, and the US showing it had more in stock than just one, that definitely changes the scale and ease of destruction. Add in Soviets breaking the non-aggression pact, overrunning and encircling everyone in Manchuria while preparing for invasions of the Home Islands and you got yourselves a surrender.

From your own link

“I believe the atomic bombing was a cause for the surrender,” Toyoda testified, “but it was not the only cause.”

[Rustledjimm]

I don't really have the time to make a long post about how western culture has changed over the centuries and the religious interpretations of those in western culture has changed to match it in all abrahamic religions and how its well documented that Muslims born and who grow up in western culture also adapt their religious interpretation to the cultures values so instead I'll say something about a more important subject.


Bercow has cockblocked the uk government from bringing the same deal to parliament again and again. Thank you speaker.