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terranaut wrote:i saw this video before it was posted here
you too can be cool like me if you just subscribe to imsxz youtube channel
Arianya wrote:no, not the snails, shut up imsxz
Nervore wrote:I am going to will you out of existence, Imsxz.
One day, you will just cease to exist.
D&B wrote:The real problem here is xenobio being able to make 4 types of armies as a non antag department for free
zxaber wrote:Creating a sentient nurse spider is nothing like maxcapping a department. At the very best, it would be like creating a maxcap and then misplacing it for a shitter to find.
We punish silicon players that ignore their laws and kill or maim randomly, why not do the same with spiders that ignore their directive?
datorangebottle wrote:It's pretty damn close. Spiders have a reputation for just ignoring their directives and murderboning anyway
Arianya wrote:tbh the code solution is to remove spider nurses from the pool and just let people have individual pet spiders without making a infinitely self-replicating army out of spiders + monkeys
knacker48 wrote:The way I usually see "friendly" spiders play out is a few leave xenobio, someone attacks them cause they're constantly planting webs, the spiders fight back, the station call them rogue and then everyone dies to undying swarm of spiders. The only time when spiders are helpful is when your fight an even bigger infestation like xenos or the blob.
Also I feel like its almost impossible to get rid of spiders once a few have layed their eggs, aside from depressurizing the entire station. There's just too many and they breed too fast.
someone attacks them cause they're constantly planting webs, the spiders fight back, the station call them rogue
Shadowflame909 wrote:The xenobiologist makes me as a green spider
Gives me the directive "Do anything you want bro"
Round-ender time
Yakumo_Chen wrote:Shadowflame909 wrote:The xenobiologist makes me as a green spider
Gives me the directive "Do anything you want bro"
Round-ender time
Time to ban the xenobiololgist or not giving proper directives, then ban you for rule 1
Arianya wrote:"This is true regardless of which xeno simplemob gets spawned and sentience spammed? You can't create carp because they have deathbolt toys and can't use them etc."
The carp doesn't replicate by itself indefinitely. Nor do most xeno simplemobs (and in fact xenomorphs were removed from the pool of spawnable-able mobs for reasons not dissimilar to spiders - they begged to be antagonistic self-replicating problems for the station)
"Now with directive un-changing, children have no defense but ignorance or "I didn't see the message" so outside of you just disliking the feature, I don't see why the burden still needs to be on the scientist."
a) Children have plenty of defences still - not the least of which is self-defence when a human gets pissed at them laying webs everywhere and attacks them. If you run into that situation, are you going to ban the spider? The xenobio who released a swarm of "don't be a dick" directive spiders? Just shrug and label it IC?
b) The burden should be on the scientist because he chose to spawn an army of spiders in the round. It's not like this is even a plausibly benevolent thing to do a la making golems who can fill gaps in the station's roster - they exist only to attack, lay webs and make more spiders.
"I would prefer you try to remove them from xenobio pool rather than dislike the feature that protects nonantag scientists from spiders abusing plausible deniability and opening for banbait."
I'm more then happy to PR that change - but I'll note that your reasoning for this is backwards "protects nonantag scientists" implies that the scientist is somehow innocent in this entire exchange. As noted, there's functionally no good reasoning to produce a swarm of spiders as a non-antagonist outside of extreme edge cases (war nukies and they somehow gave you enough time to make a spider army??)
To make a comparison - if a toxins scientist makes a bomb and hands it out to a random or leaves it in a public hallway, we don't talk about "protecting the scientist from the assistant abusing plausible deniability and banbaiting by detonating the bomb" - the scale of individual destruction may be different, certainly, but can you see how you send mixed messages by trying to protect the xenobiologist from a natural consequence of his actions where the toxin scientist isn't?
We addressed the army-making directive changing codewise and that shouldn't have any more bearing from an admin POV than a carp misusing their abilities. Unless you're talking about spiders that don't get PC'd so they're just hostile which is fair and something that can be fixed codewise*.
a) Children have plenty of defences still - not the least of which is self-defence when a human gets pissed at them laying webs everywhere and attacks them. If you run into that situation, are you going to ban the spider? The xenobio who released a swarm of "don't be a dick" directive spiders? Just shrug and label it IC?
they exist only to attack, lay webs and make more spiders... "protects nonantag scientists" implies that the scientist is somehow innocent in this entire exchange.
Cobby wrote:We addressed the army-making directive changing codewise and that shouldn't have any more bearing from an admin POV than a carp misusing their abilities. Unless you're talking about spiders that don't get PC'd so they're just hostile which is fair and something that can be fixed codewise*.
The directive PR was made explicitly to protect scientists who made an army so he could DIRECT them away from "lol time to kill everyone". The toxin comparison doesn't hold because the bomb isn't sentient and can't self-detonate else it would be the bomb's fault if it was told to by the scientist to not self detonate and that order is enforced OOCly.a) Children have plenty of defences still - not the least of which is self-defence when a human gets pissed at them laying webs everywhere and attacks them. If you run into that situation, are you going to ban the spider? The xenobio who released a swarm of "don't be a dick" directive spiders? Just shrug and label it IC?
You mean like the policy of "if a human steals your backpack as a golem you don't get to declare war on the station and boh bomb"? If someone is attacking you, you can fight back. If the station effectively declares war on a nonantag army then that's on them*.
you do know this is a roleplaying game and spiders could perfectly just walk and talk like players do when they spawn as a xeno barmaid? do you not think players could manage that? I think they could, if they saw retards that abuse their second life (or first if they were observers) to be an antagonist even though they're explicitly told they're not
Arianya wrote:The fact is that these issues are rarely black and white when they come up in gameplay and you get people grinding their teeth when they get told off, regardless of which side they're on.
Arianya wrote:This is acceptable for stuff that is a positive value add to the game but again - I don't see where that value is for spider armies on non-antagonists.
teepeepee wrote:Arianya wrote:This is acceptable for stuff that is a positive value add to the game but again - I don't see where that value is for spider armies on non-antagonists.
That's just your oppinion, obviously the scientists spawning sentient spiders do see their positive valuel
Is really the only appropriate way to be antag to get a double esword and murderbone?
Jimmius wrote:Is really the only appropriate way to be antag to get a double esword and murderbone?
read the title of the thread
Jimmius wrote:the thread is about if you should be able to make spiders as a non antag, so you don't have to worry about spiders being taken away from you for antag rounds. Ari's posts are on the money with regards to spiders as a non antag though.
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