[DinkleNH] Threatened to spawn meteors if I didn't play revhead the way he wanted me to

[ATHATH]

Round ID: 118092

I was a naturally-spawned solo headrev virologist, and wanted to try to pull off a conversionless revs greentext against the three heads of staff. DinkleNH, however, did not approve, and threatened to spawn meteors if I did not begin to flash/convert people.

The logs from one of our conversations (irrelevant text has been cut out):

Spoiler:

You hear a voice in your head... go out there and be somebody, i believe in you

Jack Jackson flutters, "Oh boy"

You pray to the gods: "I'm gonna do"

You pray to the gods: "what's called a pro gamer mood"

You pray to the gods: "move"

You hear a voice in your head... ill give you 10 minutes before i start throwing meteors. do headrev shit.

You pray to the gods: "aw, I wanted to do zero conversion revs"

You pray to the gods: "and kill the heads with a deathvirus"

You pray to the gods: "sigh"

You hear a voice in your head... rev with a singular rev decides not to be a rev, but to be a traitor.

You pray to the gods: "it's the ultimate meme"

You pray to the gods: "but fine, I, as a solo headrev, will begin flashing people"

You hear a voice in your head... its fucking boring. you have 9 minutes left. go convert people/

You pray to the gods: "get outed as soon as someone gets mindshielded"

You pray to the gods: "and die"

You hear a voice in your head... bruh thats literally what your expected to do your a HEADREV

You hear a voice in your head... im not gonna argue with you cause you make me cry

You pray to the gods: "wait, did you give me this headrevship, or did I roll it naturally?"

You hear a voice in your head... I dont even know how to give people antag before a round

You pray to the gods: "I'm filing an admin complaint after this, then"

You hear a voice in your head... You cant say that shit in pray and you dont have to listen to me

I would like to note that I did not see that last line there, but it didn't really matter much, since in later conversations, DinkleNH still seemed to stand by his decision of threatening to use admin tools if I tried to go solorev instead of loudrevs. Correct me if I'm wrong, DinkleNH, but that last line's intended meaning was "You don't HAVE to listen to me, but I'll spawn meteors if you don't do what I say", yes?

While I did greentext (after being nearly killed and after getting fully blinded), I was still greatly irritated that I was not allowed to do a non-exploit-related gimmick that I had been keeping in my back pocket for a while (and likely won't have an opportunity to try to do again) because DinkleNH decided that it was lame/"fucking boring". The fun-ness of round can survive without active antag pressure (until after however long it'd take me to finish my deathvirus), as proven by the existence of the extended game mode.

We don't threaten nuke ops if they decide to go blitz ops (well, stealth ops would be closer to what I was trying to do, but blitz ops are much scummier/more "fucking boring", so I chose them as my example), so why do we threaten headrevs if they try to do something other than "unga bunga me flash people"?

[DinkleNH]

If you were any antagonist except solo headrev, and wanted to make the same virus you have been making over and over again to kill all 30 people on the station, I wouldn't have cared. Now, when you yourself made it clear that you were just going to make this virus and treat it like you were any antag except headrev, I told you that you had 10 minutes to go do headrev things or I would send a meteor wave. I forced you, a headrev, to actively be a headrev and actually progress the round.

Rule 5 Precedents.
Minimum levels of effort for heads of staff, silicon roles, and team antagonist generally include not logging out/going AFK at or near round start due to the importance of those roles within the round for progression.

Cherrypicking for the importance of the team antagonist to progress the round, Head-rev is supposed to at least attempt to progress the round. Making a deathvirus and killing the entire station isn't what I would call progression.

Again, if you were anything but a solo headrev, you making the virus would have been 100% fine. Me making you, a HEAD REV, flash people is something that I will stand by till the end of time.

I was still greatly irritated that I was not allowed to do a non-exploit-related gimmick

Openly admitting to use an exploit in your gimmick, and calling flashing people a "gimmick" and not the main feature of being a head rev.

that I had been keeping in my back pocket for a while (and likely won't have an opportunity to try to do again)

You have made this exact virus so many times I have lost count. I also don't see how you will never have an opportunity to make a death virus again.

I would like to note that I did not see that last line there, but it didn't really matter much, since in later conversations, DinkleNH still seemed to stand by his decision of threatening to use admin tools if I tried to go solorev instead of loudrevs.

You weren't even trying to go solo rev. You were just making the same virus that you have schemed and perfected into the ultimate (and apprently exploit using) virus to kill all 30 players on the station.

We don't threaten nuke ops if they decide to go blitz ops (well, stealth ops would be closer to what I was trying to do, but blitz ops are much scummier/more "fucking boring", so I chose them as my example), so why do we threaten headrevs if they try to do something other than "unga bunga me flash people"?

In Nuclear Operatives, the progression of the round isn't based on how much a singular part of the team can convert people to their side.

Enforcement of these rules is at the discretion of admins.
Admins are fully accountable for any consequences should they invoke this rule. Admins are also allowed to intervene in rounds when it is in the best interest of the playerbase.

I think that I have made my opinion on this matter abundantly clear.

[ATHATH]

If you were any antagonist except solo headrev, and wanted to make the same virus you have been making over and over again to kill all 30 people on the station, I wouldn't have cared. Now, when you yourself made it clear that you were just going to make this virus and not be a headrev, I told you that you had 10 minutes to go do headrev things, or I would send a meteor wave. I forced you, a headrev, to actively do your job and actually progress the round as a headrev.

Rule 5 Precedents.
Minimum levels of effort for heads of staff, silicon roles, and team antagonist generally include not logging out/going AFK at or near round start due to the importance of those roles within the round for progression.

Cherrypicking for the importance of the team antagonist to progress the round, Head-rev is supposed to at least attempt to progress the round. Making a deathvirus and killing the entire station isn't what I would call progression.

Again, if you were anything but a solo headrev, you making the virus would have been 100% fine. Me making you, a HEAD REV, flash people is something that I will stand by till the end of time.

I was still greatly irritated that I was not allowed to do a non-exploit-related gimmick

Openly admitting to use an exploit in your gimmick, and calling flashing people a "gimmick" and not the main feature of being a head rev.

that I had been keeping in my back pocket for a while (and likely won't have an opportunity to try to do again)

You have made this exact virus so many times I have lost count. I also don't see how you will never have an opportunity to make a death virus again.

I would like to note that I did not see that last line there, but it didn't really matter much, since in later conversations, DinkleNH still seemed to stand by his decision of threatening to use admin tools if I tried to go solorev instead of loudrevs.

You weren't even trying to go solo rev. You were just making the same virus that you have schemed and perfected into the ultimate (and apprently exploit using) virus to kill all 30 players on the station.

We don't threaten nuke ops if they decide to go blitz ops (well, stealth ops would be closer to what I was trying to do, but blitz ops are much scummier/more "fucking boring", so I chose them as my example), so why do we threaten headrevs if they try to do something other than "unga bunga me flash people"?

In Nuclear Operatives, the progression of the round isn't based on how much a singular part of the team can convert people to their side.

Enforcement of these rules is at the discretion of admins.
Admins are fully accountable for any consequences should they invoke this rule. Admins are also allowed to intervene in rounds when it is in the best interest of the playerbase.

I think that I have made my opinion on this matter abundantly clear.

I've used that particular ARDS deathvirus (that I was planning to use) exactly... twice, I believe. I made it a point while I was playing Oganesson IV (the character that I used to main Virology with) to try to avoid using the same deathvirus twice. I don't know where your "and apprently exploit using" comment is coming from. Had I been a traitor or the like, I'd have used one of newer, less lethal/more memey viruses that I've theorycrafted, but unfortunately, unconscious/disfigured heads of staff don't count as being dead.

I'd also like to point out that this opportunity was for doing a conversionless rev round, not for making a deathvirus. I'm just not good enough at combat to try to pull off conversionless revs "fairly".

Also:

to do a non-exploit-related gimmick

Openly admitting to use an exploit in your gimmick

https://tgstation13.download/dip/discordimageproxy.php/attachments/ ... image0.jpg

[DinkleNH]

I've used that particular ARDS deathvirus (that I was planning to use) exactly... twice, I believe. I made it a point while I was playing Oganesson IV (the character that I used to main Virology with) to try to avoid using the same deathvirus twice. I don't know where your "and apprently exploit using" comment is coming from. Had I been a traitor or the like, I'd have used one of newer, less lethal/more memey viruses that I've theorycrafted, but unfortunately, unconscious/disfigured heads of staff don't count as being dead.

You make it sound like you haven't been perfecting this on discord and offline for literal weeks, as far as I can remember. Actually, you make it sound like you have been doing this exact thing.

I stand by that stopping you from turning a rev round into solo no TC viro antag who makes a-instakill virus in 10 minutes round was proper application of rule 5 and 0.

Not to mention the fact that you also broke rule 3 by telling me you were going to admin complain in prayers.

[Dax Dupont]

Not a peanut post but pointing out de facto Admin policy:

Traditionally admins have always flushed out revheads and heads on Rev rounds to make sure the game mode keeps going. I think personally in this case I would've just given revhead to other players unless the round was ongoing for a long while.

[Krusvik]

You hear a voice in your head... go out there and be somebody, i believe in you

Jack Jackson flutters, "Oh boy"

You pray to the gods: "I'm gonna do"

You pray to the gods: "what's called a pro gamer mood"

You pray to the gods: "move"

You hear a voice in your head... ill give you 10 minutes before i start throwing meteors. do headrev shit.

You pray to the gods: "aw, I wanted to do zero conversion revs"

You pray to the gods: "and kill the heads with a deathvirus"

You pray to the gods: "sigh"

You hear a voice in your head... rev with a singular rev decides not to be a rev, but to be a traitor.

You pray to the gods: "it's the ultimate meme"

You pray to the gods: "but fine, I, as a solo headrev, will begin flashing people"

You hear a voice in your head... its fucking boring. you have 9 minutes left. go convert people/

You pray to the gods: "get outed as soon as someone gets mindshielded"

You pray to the gods: "and die"

You hear a voice in your head... bruh thats literally what your expected to do your a HEADREV

You hear a voice in your head... im not gonna argue with you cause you make me cry

You pray to the gods: "wait, did you give me this headrevship, or did I roll it naturally?"

You hear a voice in your head... I dont even know how to give people antag before a round

You pray to the gods: "I'm filing an admin complaint after this, then"

You hear a voice in your head... You cant say that shit in pray and you dont have to listen to me

4. Lone antagonists can do whatever they want.
Short of metagaming/comms, bug/exploit abuse, erotic/creepy stuff, OOC in IC or IC in OOC, and spawn-camping arrivals. Team antagonists can do whatever they want as per lone antagonists, as long as it doesn’t harm their team. Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists as per lone antagonists, but non-antagonists are not allowed to pre-emptively search for, hinder or otherwise seek conflict with antagonists without reasonable prior cause. Non-antags acting like an antag can be treated as an antag.

Invoking rule 0 in this scenario is bad protocol. A meteor storm?

Interpretation of rule 5 is somewhat askew.

I don't believe you should have intervened as you did, however, the notion of exploits is another matter entirely and one I would like some clarification on if possible.

[Krusvik]

Not a peanut post but pointing out de facto Admin policy:

Traditionally admins have always flushed out revheads and heads on Rev rounds to make sure the game mode keeps going. I think personally in this case I would've just given revhead to other players unless the round was ongoing for a long while.

I've only ever seen this done when the endround objective is hiding in lockers or constantly running, both the headrevs or the heads of staff. I don't recall an instance where they were flushed out of virology for making a virus or toxins for making a bomb.

[zxaber]

Not a peanut post but pointing out de facto Admin policy:

Traditionally admins have always flushed out revheads and heads on Rev rounds to make sure the game mode keeps going. I think personally in this case I would've just given revhead to other players unless the round was ongoing for a long while.

This occurred at round start, which is a bit different of a situation than an admin acting when the station has been in the struggles of the revolution for thirty minutes and then the revhead hides.

No one was aware of the revolution until after the exchange between Dinkle and Athath.

[Cobby]

The rule exists so you avoid getting banned, not avoid godly IC punishment. Antags are also allowed to cull the entire station and not call the shuttle, but admins spawning say ERT/DS isn't ever a point of contention.

If Dinkle thought it was vital to push the progression of the round I don't really see the issue. He's allowed to shift the round's direction as he sees fit.

[DinkleNH]

Krusvik. Revolution is not a lone antagonist game mode. He was a headrev, the only reason he was the singular headrev is because of how low the population was 30 players on the server, give or take 25~ playing. Instead of allowing him to make one of his death viruses and kill the entire station, I forced him, a headrev, to flash people. I stand by that making a headrev progress the game mode instead of just waiting for him to make his virus and kill everybody is a waste of everyones time to just die from a virus that he himself said that you could not cure instead of having a revoloution.

[Sandshark808]

a virus that he himself said that you could not cure instead of having a revoloution.

Could you elaborate on this? I'm just a normie and not an admin, but I think this is an important detail we're missing. Is there actually no counterplay to this virus at all? What about it is exploitative? People are throwing out a lot of very strong words about this virus but nobody is saying why they think that.

[Arathian]

If it's the virus I am thinking of, I had the misofortune of contracting it once.

I had medhud on and saw the instant I got it. I proceeded to immediately go the chemistry and tried to make the cure. Before I could finish the cure, I was dead of oxyloss.

I also had stable light pink so I was moving at methspeed.

The virus has a cure, but kills so fast that it is effectively "uncurable" in that you will die before you get the cure unless you have medhuds, are in the chemlab and know chemistry well.

[Krusvik]

Sounds to me like a round where medbay might have fun doing their job and rushing to cure a deadly virus, or maybe any number of things could happen between now and then.

Krusvik. Revolution is not a lone antagonist game mode. He was a headrev, the only reason he was the singular headrev is because of how low the population was 30 players on the server, give or take 25~ playing. Instead of allowing him to make one of his death viruses and kill the entire station, I forced him, a headrev, to flash people. I stand by that making a headrev progress the game mode instead of just waiting for him to make his virus and kill everybody is a waste of everyones time to just die from a virus that he himself said that you could not cure instead of having a revoloution.

Where does the technicalities begin and end? He was lone headrev, he didn't have a team that could be harmed by his death virus. He isn't breaking a rule here, but sending meteors in at 10 minutes is a grievous overstep of your position as an admin in my experience.

What's wrong with letting the rest of the shift be? Maybe someone would be in a Durand by then and wouldn't be exposed to the virus.

[DinkleNH]

Sandshark. He himself has said that the virus he had planned to make killed in under a minute, had zero symptoms until about 20 seconds before it just kills you.

Krusvik. He was planning to rush this virus out and I have seen him do it in under 10 minutes.

[ATHATH]

Sandshark. He himself has said that the virus he had planned to make killed in under a minute, had zero symptoms until about 20 seconds before it just kills you.

Krusvik. He was planning to rush this virus out and I have seen him do it in under 10 minutes.

You're confusing my viruses, DinkleNH. The one you're probably thinking of is Sudden Death Alternate, a stealthy (invisible to medHUDs) autophagocytosis necrosis virus that gives you no messages before it reaches the stage that the autophagoytosis necrosis and sneezing symptoms within it can both first activate in, critting you within a minute of catching the virus on average if you don't receive medical attention (and even if you do receive medical attention, the heparin being synthesized in your blood by the virus will kill you later anyway). Furthermore, due to the presence of the necrotic metabolism symptom within the virus, corpses will spread the virus, often immediately reinfecting cloned people within seconds of them popping out of the cloning machine. While the virus does kill quickly once it reveals itself, it's quite slow to spread itself and work its way up to stage 4, so if you can figure out that a virus is killing people, get a blood sample from an infected person, and make a new pandemic machine (because I'll have destroyed the holodeck, my pandemic, my prototype viruses, and the pandemic machine board in tech storage (and possibly the medical protolathe's machine board too, if I can get away with it) by that point) before the virus reveals its presence within you, you can discover the cure to the virus and hopefully mass-produce the cure to and/or vaccines for the virus (you could also try to guess the cure, I suppose, although that's harder now with the recent virus cure changes).

The virus I was planning on making that round was Airborne ARDS Deathvirus, which starts chainstunning you (without giving you a chance to get up after the first stun unless you've ingested anti-stun meds) and dealing large amounts of oxyloss damage to you within a minute of initial infection (yes, "initial infection", not "reaching stage 4").

To be quite blunt, I believed (and still do believe) that my plan of creating and releasing Airborne ARDS Deathvirus would have been more likely to succeed in killing the heads of staff before I got lynched and died than your plan of creating an army of revolutionaries (who would most likely get themselves captured and mindshielded (and then reveal my identity to sec)) would.

Also, I was thinking about this and realized something: Since I was a solo headrev and hadn't converted anyone by that point, wasn't I technically a solo antag (until I converted someone)?

[Timonk]

Also, I was thinking about this and realized something: Since I was a solo headrev and hadn't converted anyone by that point, wasn't I technically a solo antag (until I converted someone)?

In my case, a blood brother with his brother dead counts as team antag, means that solo revhead is still team antag

[confused rock]

Retarded logic, dead other brother exists and can be cloned.
Solo antags are vulnerable to being fucked with. Such is life.

[ATHATH]

He was planning to rush this virus out and I have seen him do it in under 10 minutes.

Also, under 10 minutes?! You flatter me, DinkleNH, but I don't think that even I could rush this virus out in under 10 minutes, even if the miners somehow immediately brought the uranium that I'd need to make it within 5 minutes of roundstart. Also, even if I could make the virus in under 10 minutes, I wouldn't release it until I had sabotaged (most of) the possible pandemic sources on the station, which would take at least another 5-10 minutes to do.

[Timonk]

I believed they were dead by sec

[Krusvik]

I know where I stand.

I want to know what the exploit was, in detail.

[ATHATH]

I know where I stand.

I want to know what the exploit was, in detail.

There WAS no exploit/exploitation, nor was there PLANNED to be any. Airborne ARDS Deathvirus does not use any exploits. Sudden Death uses an odd interaction (that could maybe be called an exploit if you were looking for one) between the necrotic metabolism symptom and the sneezing symptom (the corpses (with the virus at stage 4 or stage 5 within them) spread the disease as if they are sneezing, but don't actually successfully/visibly perform the *sneeze emote), but it would still be an effective virus even if the corpses visibly sneezed. Regardless of whether or not that counts as an "exploit" (I don't think that it does), I was planning to use the former virus, not the latter, and DinkleNH had no reasonable cause to (incorrectly) assume that I was trying to use some game-breaking exploit in my deathvirus.

Perhaps he simply did not believe that my deathviruses could be so incredibly effective/lethal without utilizing exploits? Considering his claim that I could make a deathvirus in under 10 minutes, I doubt that he's done much virology (no offense, DinkleNH).

[Hulkamania]

For reasons unrelated to this complaint, DinkleNH is no longer on the administrative team and I will be closing the thread.