ban fusion shitters

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:53 am #518244

for every death due to toxin damage while someone is irradiated because someone """"accidentally"""" leaked their 30000000 million fusion rads yet again and ended the round they should eat a day of ban for an unjustified kill as per rules
thanks

Sandshark808 · Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:09 am

HommandoSA is our lord and savior.

deedubya · Post by **deedubya** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:37 pm #518267

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I don't believe for a second that any non-antag making fusion ever does so in good faith. They're always hoping that something goes wrong, or they'll leave in some deliberate flaw in their containment that could come across as a minor oversight under admin scrutiny. The only exception to this rule are people doing it for the first or second time just trying to figure out how to do it. After that, it's straight onto "well I hope this gets everyone killed, that'd be hilarious"

skoglol · Post by **skoglol** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:11 pm #518280

Feel free to ban shitter who knowingly irradiate others as a non-antag. Don't throw them all in the fusion pile though, as it happens plenty from engineers working on SM too. Ahelping is the beginning, and while some people may do this mistakenly ahelping ensures that admins can recognize it if it becomes a pattern. There are a few people who currently keep doing it on purpose that need to be dealt with when it happens.

If you contracted the rads running into the incinerator or atmos though, its your own damn fault. Stop trying to steal that fireaxe you shitter.

deedubya wrote:I've said it before, I'll say it again: I don't believe for a second that any non-antag making fusion ever does so in good faith.

You can keep saying it as many times as you want, it wont make it true. Fusion is THE thing to do in atmos, and has lots of exploration and legit non-antag applications. Do you also propose we ban botanists for growing anything bigger than wheat or potatoes when non-antag?

pugie · Post by **pugie** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:56 pm #518283

skoglol wrote: You can keep saying it as many times as you want, it wont make it true. Fusion is THE thing to do in atmos, and has lots of exploration and legit non-antag applications. Do you also propose we ban botanists for growing anything bigger than wheat or potatoes when non-antag?

I haven't seen atmos do fusion for anything non-murder centric for fucking months. If you want people to change their perspective on it then maybe use it for useful things for crew instead of just saying you CAN do non-antag stuff with it. In reality all average crew see and deal with when exposed to fusion's aftermath is plasmaman Number XX holocausting the server in a way that uses fusion. Ever since stimulum nerf this is all I've seen it be used for and that's all people will think it's useful for if you don't use it for anything other than genocide.

skoglol · Post by **skoglol** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:24 pm #518302

To be fair, you also don't play atmos which limits your exposure to non-flood fusion. It's not like everything is announced over comms, and you wouldn't notice stuff that doesn't affect you if you don't seek it out. Saying that fusion can't be done solely to have fun doing it is pretty narrow minded. I won't start announcing shit I do in atmos that isn't fusion flooding either, because that would be retarded.

Kangtut · Post by **Kangtut** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:20 pm #518305

remove plasmaman rad immunity. Problem solved.

Sandshark808 · Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:35 pm

Kangtut wrote:remove plasmaman rad immunity. Problem solved.

Make fusion particles impart heat to plasmamen, leading to them combusting.

Kangtut · Post by **Kangtut** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:40 pm #518308

Sandshark808 wrote:
Kangtut wrote:remove plasmaman rad immunity. Problem solved.
Make fusion particles impart heat to plasmamen, leading to them combusting.

plasmaman environment suits automatically extinguish them.

Post by **oranges** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:36 am #518312

just overheat them, I think it should still cause burn damage

Denton · Post by **Denton** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:21 pm #518370

Burn damage from extreme amounts of rads should be less absurd now. Of course, you'll still have the toxin damage, vomiting and mutations to deal with.

Ofc the end goal is to make fusion require powered containment so it doesn't burn through the floor/walls/pipes.

Ghilker · Post by **Ghilker** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:49 pm #518372

Oh yes remove the only perk of choosing to be a plasmaman

Reyn · Post by **Reyn** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:29 pm #518377

Ghilker wrote:Oh yes remove the only perk of choosing to be a plasmaman

Plasmemes aren't SUPPOSED to cause station wide exterminatus with fusion though.

Ghilker · Post by **Ghilker** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:34 pm #518379

Reyn wrote:
Ghilker wrote:Oh yes remove the only perk of choosing to be a plasmaman
Plasmemes aren't SUPPOSED to cause station wide exterminatus with fusion though.

Not SUPPOSED to, so ban those people, dont try to give it all to us
Also, if people would stop ratting in maint, entering atmos and incinerator where there is a freaking geiger screaming about rads, particles sounds and a comms announcement from the atmos player to stay away from atmos, then is your fucking fault. Why dont you blame those guys too? You dont blame the toxin player that got stolen of a bomb

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:57 pm #518386

Ghilker wrote:
Reyn wrote:
Ghilker wrote:Oh yes remove the only perk of choosing to be a plasmaman
Plasmemes aren't SUPPOSED to cause station wide exterminatus with fusion though.
Not SUPPOSED to, so ban those people, dont try to give it all to us
Also, if people would stop ratting in maint, entering atmos and incinerator where there is a freaking geiger screaming about rads, particles sounds and a comms announcement from the atmos player to stay away from atmos, then is your fucking fault. Why dont you blame those guys too? You dont blame the toxin player that got stolen of a bomb

I'm pretty sure people would complain about toxin players if they just let themselves be stolen of their bombs every other round and a traitor went wild with them.
[Common] Griff McTide says, "hey I'm making bombs in Toxins please stay away from the test site so you dont get bombed haha."
proceeds to leave 5 finished maxcaps sitting around in toxins and leaves

Ghilker · Post by **Ghilker** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:11 pm #518388

terranaut wrote:
Ghilker wrote:
Reyn wrote:
Ghilker wrote:Oh yes remove the only perk of choosing to be a plasmaman
Plasmemes aren't SUPPOSED to cause station wide exterminatus with fusion though.
Not SUPPOSED to, so ban those people, dont try to give it all to us
Also, if people would stop ratting in maint, entering atmos and incinerator where there is a freaking geiger screaming about rads, particles sounds and a comms announcement from the atmos player to stay away from atmos, then is your fucking fault. Why dont you blame those guys too? You dont blame the toxin player that got stolen of a bomb
I'm pretty sure people would complain about toxin players if they just let themselves be stolen of their bombs every other round and a traitor went wild with them.
[Common] Griff McTide says, "hey I'm making bombs in Toxins please stay away from the test site so you dont get bombed haha."
proceeds to leave 5 finished maxcaps sitting around in toxins and leaves

Problem is, if you leave 5 maxcaps sitting around, is your fault, if you place those caps in a secured locker, is not your fault
but, if you leave an active fusion canister laying around, is your fault, if you make all effort to not let people near the incinerator (reinforcing doors, making walls/windows, geigers, etc) but people still enter incinerator and get rads, is still your fault. Doublestandard much?

Sandshark808 · Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:33 pm

Ghilker wrote:Problem is, if you leave 5 maxcaps sitting around, is your fault, if you place those caps in a secured locker, is not your fault
but, if you leave an active fusion canister laying around, is your fault, if you make all effort to not let people near the incinerator (reinforcing doors, making walls/windows, geigers, etc) but people still enter incinerator and get rads, is still your fault. Doublestandard much?

I have literally never, not once, seen someone actually try to hide their fusion from assistants.

Ghilker · Post by **Ghilker** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:57 pm #518392

Sandshark808 wrote:
Ghilker wrote:Problem is, if you leave 5 maxcaps sitting around, is your fault, if you place those caps in a secured locker, is not your fault
but, if you leave an active fusion canister laying around, is your fault, if you make all effort to not let people near the incinerator (reinforcing doors, making walls/windows, geigers, etc) but people still enter incinerator and get rads, is still your fault. Doublestandard much?
I have literally never, not once, seen someone actually try to hide their fusion from assistants.

hide? where? i do fusion in the incinerator and in the room above it, i wall off maint and reinforce the doors with plasteel, and still shitters enter and get themself full of rads
what i'm supposed to do?

Sandshark808 · Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:05 pm

Ghilker wrote:
Sandshark808 wrote:
Ghilker wrote:Problem is, if you leave 5 maxcaps sitting around, is your fault, if you place those caps in a secured locker, is not your fault
but, if you leave an active fusion canister laying around, is your fault, if you make all effort to not let people near the incinerator (reinforcing doors, making walls/windows, geigers, etc) but people still enter incinerator and get rads, is still your fault. Doublestandard much?
I have literally never, not once, seen someone actually try to hide their fusion from assistants.
hide? where? i do fusion in the incinerator and in the room above it, i wall off maint and reinforce the doors with plasteel, and still shitters enter and get themself full of rads
what i'm supposed to do?

Block the doors not leading to atmos?

Ghilker · Post by **Ghilker** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:14 pm #518395

Sandshark808 wrote:
Ghilker wrote:
Sandshark808 wrote:
Ghilker wrote:Problem is, if you leave 5 maxcaps sitting around, is your fault, if you place those caps in a secured locker, is not your fault
but, if you leave an active fusion canister laying around, is your fault, if you make all effort to not let people near the incinerator (reinforcing doors, making walls/windows, geigers, etc) but people still enter incinerator and get rads, is still your fault. Doublestandard much?
I have literally never, not once, seen someone actually try to hide their fusion from assistants.
hide? where? i do fusion in the incinerator and in the room above it, i wall off maint and reinforce the doors with plasteel, and still shitters enter and get themself full of rads
what i'm supposed to do?
Block the doors not leading to atmos?

What doors?
This is the setup i do for fusion

Spoiler:

Walls on the left to close maint, the three doors reinforced with plasteel, geiger on the ground near the door
what more? tell me please?
where are those doors?

Sandshark808 · Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:24 pm

That's a good setup. It's a shame everyone else intentionally does open-room fusion with an atmos holobarrier, or just leaves the incinerator open.

Ghilker · Post by **Ghilker** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:25 pm #518397

then note those guys, maybe they are still learning, if they are more like shitters ban
dont blame all on us and dont generalize

Sandshark808 · Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:35 pm

Ghilker wrote:then note those guys, maybe they are still learning, if they are more like shitters ban
dont blame all on us and dont generalize

Since you already take such hefty precautions, why not just use a lot of coolers or put up one extra wall to shield yourself from radiation? Then if plasmamen lose their protection it will stop the shitters who self-irradiate on purpose but a prepared person, like you, can work around it.

Ghilker · Post by **Ghilker** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:40 pm #518402

Sandshark808 wrote:
Ghilker wrote:then note those guys, maybe they are still learning, if they are more like shitters ban
dont blame all on us and dont generalize
Since you already take such hefty precautions, why not just use a lot of coolers or put up one extra wall to shield yourself from radiation? Then if plasmamen lose their protection it will stop the shitters who self-irradiate on purpose but a prepared person, like you, can work around it.

if plasmaman should loose their protection, i wouldnt play them anymore, because that's the only reason i pick them in the first place; is stupid to pick a race that doesnt have any kind of beneficial perks, i'll just pick human instead

i dont like that to change a server mentality you have to force code a change to try and stop them instead of stopping them by admin intervention

Critawakets · Post by **Critawakets** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:18 pm #518497

Fusion has no non-antag use. If you are a security officer arrest anyone who does fusion. Act like an antag, get treated like one.

Ghilker · Post by **Ghilker** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:36 pm #518498

Critawakets wrote:Fusion has no non-antag use. If you are a security officer arrest anyone who does fusion. Act like an antag, get treated like one.

you are an idiot

making exotic gases
using the heat to make hypernobilium
using the heat for a TEG
using the radiation with array collectors to make power

is this enough to show you the non-angag uses?

Critawakets · Post by **Critawakets** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:45 pm #518500

Exotic gases, you mean stimulum and hypernobilium?
Stimulum hurts you so much that its more potent as a deathgas than making you go faster.
Hypernobilium has not really any uses besides TEGs and the SM.

Making more power? Oh man, wonderful! What uses does it have? The answer is just shocking people to death. Another antag thing.
So the only use is a niche cooling setup for the SM that can be done with plasma anyway.

Ghilker · Post by **Ghilker** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:03 pm #518506

arrest engies that modifies the SM too, since the basic setup is enough for the entire station

Sandshark808 · Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:31 am

Ghilker wrote:arrest engies that modifies the SM too, since the basic setup is enough for the entire station

There are many perfectly stable and highly useful advanced SM concepts. In fact, the roundstart SM setup has a (low) chance of going critical on a long round without babysitting so alternative setups like straight-pipes are unquestionably better. Not so with fusion.

skoglol · Post by **skoglol** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:25 pm #518564

Critawakets wrote:Fusion has no non-antag use. If you are a security officer arrest anyone who does fusion. Act like an antag, get treated like one.

Kill the chemist for making grendes. Kill the roboticist for making a mech. Kill the xenobiologist for grinding gold slimes. Kill the virologist for saving deadly symptoms. Kill the cargo tech for ordering stun batons. Kill the bartender for making bacchus blessing. Kill the botanist for making death nettles. Kill the scientist for researching bags of holding.

Fuck off retard.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:00 pm #518565

skoglol wrote:
Critawakets wrote:Fusion has no non-antag use. If you are a security officer arrest anyone who does fusion. Act like an antag, get treated like one.
Kill the chemist for making grendes. Kill the roboticist for making a mech. Kill the xenobiologist for grinding gold slimes. Kill the virologist for saving deadly symptoms. Kill the cargo tech for ordering stun batons. Kill the bartender for making bacchus blessing. Kill the botanist for making death nettles. Kill the scientist for researching bags of holding.

Fuck off retard.

We already punish and ban people who maliciously abuse those roles to do those activities to self-antag or 'accidentally' leave them out where they can kill people or derail the round entirely.

skoglol · Post by **skoglol** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:11 pm #518567

If people are non-antag causing deaths or shit then feel free to ban them. But let's not pretend for a second that running fusion as a non antag atmos tech makes you valid, or eligible for arrest. It's part of the atmos tech job, just like bombs is part of toxins. Doesn't mean you get a free pass to go blow up the station, nor makes you valid for working the job.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:52 pm #518568

skoglol wrote:If people are non-antag causing deaths or shit then feel free to ban them. But let's not pretend for a second that running fusion as a non antag atmos tech makes you valid, or eligible for arrest. It's part of the atmos tech job, just like bombs is part of toxins. Doesn't mean you get a free pass to go blow up the station, nor makes you valid for working the job.

No, they aren't valid. But we implemented coded caps on the lethality and effectiveness of things like toxins to prevent station wiping bombs. No such effort is being made towards fusion to cap it's lethality despite numerous documented incidents in the last month pointing to how a single person can kill the entire station to outright break the round and crash it.

skoglol · Post by **skoglol** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:23 pm #518571

If people are using fusion to "break the round" and its not just an honest accident, that's a whole other issue and should be dealt with accordingly.

As for using the fusion for antag stuff, I could just as easily make the round unplayable and unfun with a well thought out plasma flood so it's not like a fusion flood is THAT different. Sure, it's a step up but it follows much the same pattern with the main differences being that it's quieter, spreads faster and is harder to fix.

I have said several times in this thread that I am not against acting on people self antagging with fusion, just like anything else you can self antag with. That is the thread topic, after all. People advocating for making fusion an antag only thing or acting icly on non antags doing safe fusion are the ones I am calling out on their bullshit.

This whole thread is honestly a waste of time, as our rules already cover killing people as a non antag. The moral of the story is basically to ahelp shitters that do this shit (spreading rads, "accidentally" fusion flooding) on purpose, and if a pattern emerges admins can act on it. It's something the core atmos gang on terry has already been discussing ad nauseum, because we are annoyed at these people too.

Sandshark808 · Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:49 pm

skoglol wrote:As for using the fusion for antag stuff, I could just as easily make the round unplayable and unfun with a well thought out plasma flood so it's not like a fusion flood is THAT different. Sure, it's a step up but it follows much the same pattern with the main differences being that it's quieter, spreads faster and is harder to fix.

You can escape a plasma flood and repair it later, even fight the fires with atmos foam. Even baby's first fusion leak makes the entirety of space uninhabitable.

skoglol · Post by **skoglol** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:42 pm #518592

You're wrong, but stop derailing the thread.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:49 pm #518594

He's not wrong, fusion right now is Cuban Pete-scale bombs before the maxcap limit. Fusion needs a temperature cap because the current temperatures are compeletely fucking stupid. You should not be able to reach temperatures that exceed the Hagedorn Temperature, the temperature that is theorised to be Absolute Hot, and then seal it in a metal can. That's just pants-on-head retardation.

Reyn · Post by **Reyn** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:54 pm #518595

Anonmare wrote:He's not wrong, fusion right now is Cuban Pete-scale bombs before the maxcap limit. Fusion needs a temperature cap because the current temperatures are compeletely fucking stupid. You should not be able to reach temperatures that exceed the Hagedorn Temperature, the temperature that is theorised to be Absolute Hot, and then seal it in a metal can. That's just pants-on-head retardation.

Yeah, Fusion canisters, at that point, should be fucking GASEOUS METAL AT LEAST.

skoglol · Post by **skoglol** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:50 pm #518619

There is a huge difference between a well executed e25 fusion flood and babys first e8 fusion flood. A well executed plasma flood, you won't get to the gear you need to fix it very easily, so in effect its the same issue. You just probably will be able to survive in maints, maybe. Fusion flooding also does not heat space, feel free to grab an eva suit and go spacewalk.
I said it would be a step up, I don't know why you are so intent on disagreeing that you literally ignore that.

This policy thread is about banning people that irradiate the station because they are cunts. Stop making every thread that remotely touches fusion into a "moan about fusion" thread.

Critawakets · Post by **Critawakets** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:43 pm #518628

skoglol wrote:Kill the chemist for making grendes. Kill the roboticist for making a mech. Kill the xenobiologist for grinding gold slimes. Kill the virologist for saving deadly symptoms. Kill the cargo tech for ordering stun batons. Kill the bartender for making bacchus blessing. Kill the botanist for making death nettles. Kill the scientist for researching bags of holding.

Fuck off retard.

All of what you mentionned have uses for meme-y strategies or even non-antag combat. Fusion just indiscriminately kills the station if used.

So in other words, fuck off retard.

deedubya · Post by **deedubya** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:51 am #518656

skoglol wrote:Fusion flooding also does not heat space, feel free to grab an eva suit and go spacewalk.

Bold of you to assume it doesn't heat space.

Sandshark808 · Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:47 am

It's pretty funny that one of the two guys arguing on behalf of legitimate uses for fusion is currently appealing a ban for fusion flooding.

teepeepee · Post by **teepeepee** » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:16 am #518667

I don't think that's a valid zinger since he did it as a traitor and got banned because the admins were confused on whether it was bug abuse or not
fusion flooding as an antagonist is not what is being discussed here

ATHATH · Post by **ATHATH** » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:43 am #518828

Proposal: Nerf the station-wiping potential of fusion, but at the same time, add more beneficial gasses/buff the existing beneficial gasses so that non-antag atmos techs have more of a reason to create beneficial fusion setups instead of making station-wipers in cans just to prove that they can because they're bored and don't really have much else to do.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:49 am #518986

Critawakets wrote:Exotic gases, you mean stimulum and hypernobilium?
Stimulum hurts you so much that its more potent as a deathgas than making you go faster.
Hypernobilium has not really any uses besides TEGs and the SM.

Making more power? Oh man, wonderful! What uses does it have? The answer is just shocking people to death. Another antag thing.
So the only use is a niche cooling setup for the SM that can be done with plasma anyway.

You can sell the gases for billions of cargo points. Bikes for everyone!

Sandshark808 · Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:16 am

Grazyn wrote:
Critawakets wrote:Exotic gases, you mean stimulum and hypernobilium?
Stimulum hurts you so much that its more potent as a deathgas than making you go faster.
Hypernobilium has not really any uses besides TEGs and the SM.

Making more power? Oh man, wonderful! What uses does it have? The answer is just shocking people to death. Another antag thing.
So the only use is a niche cooling setup for the SM that can be done with plasma anyway.
You can sell the gases for billions of cargo points. Bikes for everyone!

Just make a vacuum chamber for brappgas and fill it with disemboweled empty clones.