"Don't Ahelp if You're Not directly involved." On observer ahelps

[Reyn]

So, I've had a few ahelps on issues of... varying degrees of severity simply closed out of th emerit of me only observing them as a spectator/ghost, and them not Directly affecting or involving me. In fact, I've had this come up on occasion when someone did something which did TECHNICALLY involve me post mortem.

Seeing as some people don't seem to ahelp some issues, and the issues I'm ahelping when I have this pushed on me tends to be a continuous issue, such as a head of staff breaking into the ai upload to purge the ai and upload meme laws, or some sec officer intentionally setting a hacked holodeck to something dangerous, Or so on, I'm wondering if this is a fair ruling. As much as I'd like to say that i'm in the wrong for ahelping and putting complaints in other people's mouths, Sometimes the victim does not ahelp or know WHO to ahelp, or there is something which is a long term problem.

My rambling aside, the point still stands. Should we have ahelps from observers which saw a situation unfold be ignored? Or should The admins actually consider these ahelps. I don't even know why there's rambling about not being involved but, here's also a chance for me to learn why observer ahelping often just immediately gets closed.

[teepeepee]

have you tried playing the game instead of mini-modding?

[Kel]

snitches get stitches

[Okand37]

The main reason we discourage non-involved people from adminhelping is because of the ultimatum that you don't have the context that the players might. The best example I can give of this is when two non-antagonist players are antagonising one another and have an escalating conflict that leads to the defendant or victim's death. On the surface, you might think this specific scenario you've witnessed violates the rules, but consider: what if the two players enjoyed that conflict? If this was the case, and we then banned the instigator, what would we get out of it?

In a sense, a lot of in-character conflict is treated like this from an admin perspective. When I'm observing and see two people killing each other, and neither are antagonists, I don't involve myself in their case unless one of them directly adminhelps. For all intents and purposes, SS13 is a conflict driven roleplaying game, and that experience might be the highlight of their round. The main exceptions to this motif is when a non-antagonist is doing something that effects a large population such as creating harmful viruses, flooding plasma, sabotaging the engine, and blowing up areas of the station.

We discourage uninvolved parties to adminhelp because we'd rather not bring up an issue on someone's behalf if the individual doesn't actually have a problem with the behaviour, or doesn't feel it necessary to involve admin intervention. It is very counterproductive to be angry for someone else. Players need to be able to create their own fun, and the more we limit that preemptively, the more players will shy away from trying to create meaningful conflict.

I hope that explains why many of us might do this. You should spend more time on playing and enjoying the game--let the administration worry about the administrating!

[Reyn]

The main reason we discourage non-involved people from adminhelping is because of the ultimatum that you don't have the context that the players might. The best example I can give of this is when two non-antagonist players are antagonising one another and have an escalating conflict that leads to the defendant or victim's death. On the surface, you might think this specific scenario you've witnessed violates the rules, but consider: what if the two players enjoyed that conflict? If this was the case, and we then banned the instigator, what would we get out of it?

In a sense, a lot of in-character conflict is treated like this from an admin perspective. When I'm observing and see two people killing each other, and neither are antagonists, I don't involve myself in their case unless one of them directly adminhelps. For all intents and purposes, SS13 is a conflict driven roleplaying game, and that experience might be the highlight of their round. The main exceptions to this motif is when a non-antagonist is doing something that effects a large population such as creating harmful viruses, flooding plasma, sabotaging the engine, and blowing up areas of the station.

We discourage uninvolved parties to adminhelp because we'd rather not bring up an issue on someone's behalf if the individual doesn't actually have a problem with the behaviour, or doesn't feel it necessary to involve admin intervention. It is very counterproductive to be angry for someone else. Players need to be able to create their own fun, and the more we limit that preemptively, the more players will shy away from trying to create meaningful conflict.

I hope that explains why many of us might do this. You should spend more time on playing and enjoying the game--let the administration worry about the administrating!

Got it! Still, I might need to start up a new thread on the culture of not ahelping issues which people ARE involved in due to ASSUMING the person is antag, or not caring because it's normal or not shitcurity. Sorry to bring this up!

[Lazengann]

Got it! Still, I might need to start up a new thread

i disagree

[terranaut]

I was AI but thats basically observing. I once saw some guy repeatedly walk into somebody who was afk and had been standing there for at least 5 minutes of me being aware of them being there with a non-help intent, pushing them out of Escape and into space without once touching them and leaving a fingerprint or combat loggable action. I ahelped that since I figured an antag would just grab grab throw if they wanted to kill an afk target already in escape. Postround reveals the guy was an antag but I think this is a pretty valid case of ahelping without being involved and not exactly minimodding.
I do agree that "wtf mime killed clown?? valid??????" ahelps are pointless at best and a waste of time at worst if you happened to watch the last 3 seconds of the fight just after hopping off the arrival shuttler.

[Denton]

Got it! Still, I might need to start up a new thread

Dear god make it stop