[Naloac] - SoapDispenser - Banned for killing the Bartender

[Soap]

BYOND account: <SoapDIspenser>
Character name: <Unsure, I play with a random generated name each round. EDIT: I found the name in logs. Jee-Raj>
Ban type: <Serverban>
Ban length: <1 day ban>
Ban reason: <The ban reason is: Went into the bar, broke glasses and went behind the bar. When thrown out by the bartender and it being clear he wasnt welcome in his workplace. Snuck into the back room and murdered the bartender then hid his body in maint. Please re read our rules including Rule 1 precedent 6 >
Time ban was placed: <2019-10-20-13:09:23 (server time).>
Server you were playing on when banned: <Terryl>
Round ID in which ban was placed: <121765. I think the correct round is the round prior to this ID, as Naloac and I were discussing the situation into a second round, where I recieved the ban. EDIT: I found the round that the events transpired in. 121763>
Your side of the story: <After a round of being griefed by the HoS (Talia Robinson in-game) I saw the bartender assist the HoS in beating another crewmember in the bar. I tried to shove the HoS, but was then forcegrabbed by the bartender, and thrown over the counter. When the dust had settled, I then asked the bartender why he chose to assist the HoS, who was being a general pain to most crewmember. He then states that they were friends or mates, I can't remember the exact wording. Upon hearing that, I threw one of the empty bar glasses, as a sign of in-character resentment. This glass hit the counter of the bar, in the least harmful way anything possibly could. I did not foresee that this would cause the bartender to proceed with unloading his shotgun in my face, and chase me out of the bar. This all happened without any communication from the bartender, because of a single broken glass.

Now we fast forward a bit. My character is hungry and I try to enter the kitchen. The bartender easily spots me, as I'm wearing the Knight Templar outfit as the chaplain. He runs out of the bar, across the room and starts firing his shotgun at me, again without communication. Panicked, I managed to escape, and thinking that the bartender is out to kill me on-sight I decide to beat him to it. I go through the backroom, since I have acquired all-access, and I stun him using a baton, which the warden gave me, and kill him with my nullrod. I then drag him to maintenance and hide the body.>

Why you think you should be unbanned: < Now I realize that the Naloac quotes Rule 1, precedent 6, as the justification to give me a one day ban, however I do not feel that this is just. According to the rules of escalation, I have the right to respond to violence with violence, especially when someone is firing a shotgun at me. I realize that the bartender usually makes use of beanbag slugs, however, I was not able to deduct what he would do AFTER stunning me, as he did not try to communicate that I was not to return to the bar (Which I didn't, I was trying to grab food from the kitchen). I ICly then feared he was going to kill me if he ever had the chance.

It is also true that I could have approached security to talk the bartender down, but this didn't seem like a plausible course of action at the time because the HoS was randomly shoving and grabbing me, and the previously mentioned 'friendship' would most likely have prompted the HoS to lynch me now she had the excuse. This is also why I dragged the body to maintenance, since the HoS was itching for excuses to kill people that round. He had killed the mime, who I carried around as a purified shade, for breaking windows.


In short, I feel that my actions were reasonable, since I feared being killed by an overzealous maniac chasing me with a shotgun, without any communication. All because of a single broken glass.
>
References of good conduct: <I have nothing to add here besides my playtime on Terry, where you will see I have a few warnings and a single ban. Those warnings and bans are fair, since i realize they were against the spirit of the server rules.>

[Timonk]

bartenders usually dont like getting their glasses smashed and will usually respond with a shotgun and beanbags if you smash one or more, since they only have 30 of them. (i was the bartender). you were being a pain behind the counter before i threw you out for throwing a glass at me.

[Soap]

bartenders usually dont like getting their glasses smashed and will usually respond with a shotgun and beanbags if you smash one or more, since they only have 30 of them. (i was the bartender). you were being a pain behind the counter before i threw you out for throwing a glass at me.

Then why did you attack me while I was trying to get food at the kitchen? I was not being a threat to you, nor your glasses. Also to clarify, I did not throw the glass at you, but the counter.

[Timonk]

Then why did you attack me while I was trying to get food at the kitchen?

you were not welcome in the bar.

I was not being a threat to you, nor your glasses. Also to clarify, I did not throw the glass at you, but the counter.

that glass hit me, you cant throw things at tables/chairs/etc.

[bobbahbrown]

Any information below is derived from the logs of round 121763.

URL tags appear to be broken so I will provide links in this format:
- Source: scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/121763/source
- Statbus: scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/121763/statbus
- Scrubby: scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/121763

...This glass hit the counter of the bar, in the least harmful way anything possibly could...

From attack.txt:

Code: Select all

[2019-10-19 12:19:55.131] ATTACK: SoapDispenser/(Jee-Raj) has thrown the drinking glass (Bar (131, 128, 2))
[2019-10-19 12:19:55.138] ATTACK: SoapDispenser/(Jee-Raj) has threw and hit Timonk/(Kobe Catster) with the drinking glass (NEWHP: 100)  (Bar (131, 128, 2))


[snip, removed as Timonk clarified above]

[Soap]

Any information below is derived from the logs of round 121763.

URL tags appear to be broken so I will provide links in this format:
- Source: scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/121763/source
- Statbus: scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/121763/statbus
- Scrubby: scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/121763

...This glass hit the counter of the bar, in the least harmful way anything possibly could...

From attack.txt:

Code: Select all

[2019-10-19 12:19:55.131] ATTACK: SoapDispenser/(Jee-Raj) has thrown the drinking glass (Bar (131, 128, 2))
[2019-10-19 12:19:55.138] ATTACK: SoapDispenser/(Jee-Raj) has threw and hit Timonk/(Kobe Catster) with the drinking glass (NEWHP: 100)  (Bar (131, 128, 2))


[snip, removed as Timonk clarified above]

Hmm, odd. My mistake. I just recalled having a red text in my chatbox saying that the glass broke on the counter.

[PKPenguin321]

This post was deleted by PKPenguin321 on Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:25 pm.
Reason: Peanut gallery post

[Naloac]

You decided to go to the bar and throw the bartenders glasses at him, You also went behind the counter. The bartender is allowed to throw you out and not let you back in. You got punished IC for your actions. You decided the best course of action for someone wanting you out of their workplace was to go via their back room kill them then hide their body in a shut crate in maint. If you cloned them it just be a case of poor escalation. Reminder you hit him first and broke his glass he as a bartender would not want you in his workplace. in this situation you are the aggressor not him.

[Soap]

You decided to go to the bar and throw the bartenders glasses at him, You also went behind the counter. The bartender is allowed to throw you out and not let you back in. You got punished IC for your actions. You decided the best course of action for someone wanting you out of their workplace was to go via their back room kill them then hide their body in a shut crate in maint. If you cloned them it just be a case of poor escalation. Reminder you hit him first and broke his glass he as a bartender would not want you in his workplace. in this situation you are the aggressor not him.

This is not entirely true.

[2019-10-19 12:18:50.381] ATTACK: Timonk/(Kobe Catster) has grabbed SoapDispenser/(Jee-Raj) passive grab (NEWHP: 90) (Bar (133, 131, 2))
[2019-10-19 12:18:50.476] ATTACK: LoserWasTaken/(Talia Robinson) has grabbed Downloaddonald/(Honky Donky Donald) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 90) (Bar (134, 130, 2))
[2019-10-19 12:18:50.554] ATTACK: *no key*/(Roboflop) attacked herself to a Muscle Spasm (Lavaland Labor Camp (157, 93, 5))
[2019-10-19 12:18:51.649] ATTACK: Timonk/(Kobe Catster) has grabbed SoapDispenser/(Jee-Raj) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 90) (Bar (133, 131, 2))
[2019-10-19 12:18:51.680] ATTACK: LoserWasTaken/(Talia Robinson) has tabled Downloaddonald/(Honky Donky Donald) onto the reinforced table (NEWHP: 80) (Bar (133, 130, 2))
[2019-10-19 12:18:51.779] ATTACK: *no key*/(Roboflop) attacked someone due to a Muscle Spasm (Lavaland Labor Camp (157, 93, 5))
[2019-10-19 12:18:52.299] ATTACK: LoserWasTaken/(Talia Robinson) has grabbed Downloaddonald/(Honky Donky Donald) passive grab (NEWHP: 80) (Bar (133, 130, 2))
[2019-10-19 12:18:52.696] ATTACK: Timonk/(Kobe Catster) has attempted to neck grab SoapDispenser/(Jee-Raj) neck grab (NEWHP: 90) (Bar (133, 131, 2))
[2019-10-19 12:18:53.396] ATTACK: LoserWasTaken/(Talia Robinson) has grabbed Downloaddonald/(Honky Donky Donald) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 80) (Bar (130, 130, 2))
[2019-10-19 12:18:54.408] ATTACK: *no key*/(Inspector Johnson) has tended the wounds of Boomaloon/(Athaleon Yates) with internal tools (FIRE) (NEWHP: 93.6) (Brig (110, 167, 2))
[2019-10-19 12:18:54.887] ATTACK: Timonk/(Kobe Catster) has tabled SoapDispenser/(Jee-Raj) onto the reinforced table (NEWHP: 80) (Bar (133, 130, 2))
[2019-10-19 12:18:56.045] ATTACK: Timonk/(Kobe Catster) has kicks SoapDispenser/(Jee-Raj) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 80) (Bar (133, 130, 2))
[2019-10-19 12:18:56.046] ATTACK: Timonk/(Kobe Catster) has shoved SoapDispenser/(Jee-Raj) (NEWHP: 80) (Bar (133, 130, 2))


This happened before the incident with the glass, which you can see by the timestamp.

[2019-10-19 12:19:55.131] ATTACK: SoapDispenser/(Jee-Raj) has thrown the drinking glass (Bar (131, 128, 2))
[2019-10-19 12:19:55.138] ATTACK: SoapDispenser/(Jee-Raj) has threw and hit Timonk/(Kobe Catster) with the drinking glass (NEWHP: 100)

To provide context, which is hard to gather from logs, I was behind the bar at this point, yes. I was trying to help a person, who was currently being attacked by the HoS, who had previously murdered the mime over a trivial matter regarding some windows.

So no, I did not "hit him first", as you put it.

[Timonk]

who had previously murdered the mime over a trivial matter regarding some windows.

the mime smashed half the windows in the hallway WITH A FIREAXE, WHICH HE STOLE FROM BRIDGE, MAKING HIM VALID.

I was behind the bar at this point, yes.

hmm maybe turn your brain on and think about why he would be behind the counter...

[Soap]

I was behind the bar at this point, yes.

hmm maybe turn your brain on and think about why he would be behind the counter...

Can you clarify this ?

[Timonk]

people mostly go behind the counter to annoy the bartender

[Soap]

people mostly go behind the counter to annoy the bartender

Did I do anything behind the counter to 'annoy' you?

[Naloac]

The situation had de-escalated and you choose you come back after being ejected so yes you are the aggressor because you hit first in the situation you decided to restart. After being rightfully ejected you decided your best course of action was to get AA and go into the bartenders back room and murder him after stunning him with a sec baton. He wasnt hurting you or trying to hunt you down bar from when your own actions made him do so. All in all I feel like you over reacted from being thrown out of the bar because of your own actions. Appeal denied.

[Malkraz]

Something that should be understood is that even if you aren't the aggressor/instigator you can't actively hide the body in this situation.