[Vekter] Cerebrallolzy - Rule 8

[Cerebral]

When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): Manuel

Byond account and character name OR Discord name: Cerebrallolzy

Admin: Vekter

ROUND ID HERE IF APPLICABLE: 128231

Detailed summary:
I'm gonna lead of with this... the Admin was just doing his job, and I completely understand his point of view. This is more about Rule 8 then anything. Anyway, back to the subject:
The job of Botany is to experiment with the plants, and see what you get. I believe Vekter was saying since Botany doesn't start with a Chem Dispenser that they do not apply under the same ruleset as the Chemists(experimenting with chemicals). I don't see how that applies since we can synthesize all the same chemicals if not more(bees). The plant manipulator can modify the plants chemistry. You can take those plants and grind them down. Either way you have the same exact result as a Chem Dispenser. I rarely get to experiment like that because of the long round times.

Which leads me to my next point. Forgive my language but, I fucking LOVE your server. The community is amazing, and the admins aren't cunts.

Thanks for your time,
Cerebral

P.S.

I did roleplay the experimentation by the way. Just wanna throw that out there.

[Vekter]

The important thing here is that he was making insane hell grenades as a Botanist on the MRP server. I asked him not to because there isn't really an RP justification for him to be doing so.

I'm pretty sure this belongs in Policy Discussion.

The rule in question is:

Stay in your lane.
While you're capable of doing anything within the game mechanics, just let those who have selected the relevant job to attempt the task first. For example, breaking into medical and treating the burns you got from hacking the medical airlock would be a very strange real-life event if there are doctors literally standing there, and while a janitor mixing up some extra space cleaner is very much believable, if there are chemists working in chemistry you should consider asking them to make you your space-cleaner grenades.

[Cerebral]

They were just gaseous decomposition mixed with fluro-acid 50%, and some phlogiston. How ever, I do understand... The RP justification was to give to security because of all the bombings going on(the kitchen was bombed twice in under 10 minutes). The idea was to make the subject's mask melt. Then have him breathe the phlogiston, thus only catching the subject on fire. I had some others that I normally use as self-defense that just had capsaicin in it just to knock down.

The reason I posted here was because you're the only admin that's actually gotten onto about this. I've been messing with gaseous decomposition for the past 3 days after I figured out you can get it with 2u of Unstable Mutagen.

[Arianya]

Relevant Manuel rules:

Don’t use OOC information or knowledge that your character would not reasonably be aware of just to give yourself an advantage.
In other words, don’t powergame or metagame. This mostly means things like rolling captain every round just so you can always do xenobio, or rushing into chemistry at the start of each round so you can make a suicide grenade just in case.

Stay in your lane.
While you're capable of doing anything within the game mechanics, just let those who have selected the relevant job to attempt the task first. For example, breaking into medical and treating the burns you got from hacking the medical airlock would be a very strange real-life event if there are doctors literally standing there, and while a janitor mixing up some extra space cleaner is very much believable, if there are chemists working in chemistry you should consider asking them to make you your space-cleaner grenades.

Relevant grenade log excerpt:

[2020-01-15 16:43:02.012] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Starboard Maintenance (150, 135, 2))[ Space drugs Mindbreaker Toxin Space Lube Cyanide Tirizene Coniine Condensed Capsaicin Capsaicin Oil Carpotoxin Amanitin Amatoxin Fluorosulfuric acid Sulphuric acid Phlogiston Fluorine Chlorine ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.

Also, more logs from a different round:

[2020-01-15 07:33:15.042] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Starboard Maintenance (150, 135, 2))[ Space drugs Mindbreaker Toxin Nicotine Acetone oxide Frost Oil Cyanide Amatoxin Tirizene Coniine Condensed Capsaicin Sulphuric acid Fluorosulfuric acid Amanitin Phlogiston ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
[2020-01-15 07:39:44.729] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Starboard Maintenance (150, 135, 2))[ Space drugs Mindbreaker Toxin Nicotine Acetone oxide Frost Oil Cyanide Amatoxin Tirizene Coniine Condensed Capsaicin Sulphuric acid Fluorosulfuric acid Amanitin Space Lube Phlogiston ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.

(Can't link logs as Manuel logs aren't on parsed yet)

[Cerebral]

Yeah 1 was frost oil and 1 was capsaicin. I was seeing which one would have been better. Keep in mind this is just experimentation. Which is what this post is all about.

[Vekter]

Again, I have zero problem with you doing this on Sybil or Bagil. Manuel's meant to be more of a roleplaying experience. Not necessarily more serious, but less screwing around and doing whatever you want.

[Arianya]

On further inspection, I've found the following:

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

D:\gamedata-sybil2\data\logs\2020\01\15\round-128209\game.log (6 hits)
	Line 12335: [2020-01-15 06:59:02.088] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Starboard Maintenance (150, 135, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Nicotine  Acetone oxide  Frost Oil  Cyanide  Amatoxin  Tirizene  Coniine  Condensed Capsaicin  Sulphuric acid  Fluorosulfuric acid  Amanitin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 14345: [2020-01-15 07:16:42.993] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Starboard Maintenance (150, 135, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Nicotine  Acetone oxide  Frost Oil  Cyanide  Amatoxin  Tirizene  Coniine  Condensed Capsaicin  Sulphuric acid  Fluorosulfuric acid  Amanitin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 15162: [2020-01-15 07:23:56.586] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Starboard Maintenance (150, 135, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Nicotine  Acetone oxide  Frost Oil  Cyanide  Amatoxin  Tirizene  Coniine  Condensed Capsaicin  Sulphuric acid  Fluorosulfuric acid  Amanitin  Stabilizing Agent  Phlogiston ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 16151: [2020-01-15 07:33:15.042] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Starboard Maintenance (150, 135, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Nicotine  Acetone oxide  Frost Oil  Cyanide  Amatoxin  Tirizene  Coniine  Condensed Capsaicin  Sulphuric acid  Fluorosulfuric acid  Amanitin  Phlogiston ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 17002: [2020-01-15 07:39:44.729] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Starboard Maintenance (150, 135, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Nicotine  Acetone oxide  Frost Oil  Cyanide  Amatoxin  Tirizene  Coniine  Condensed Capsaicin  Sulphuric acid  Fluorosulfuric acid  Amanitin  Space Lube  Phlogiston ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 17898: [2020-01-15 07:46:51.358] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Starboard Maintenance (157, 114, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Nicotine  Acetone oxide  Frost Oil  Cyanide  Amatoxin  Tirizene  Coniine  Condensed Capsaicin  Sulphuric acid  Fluorosulfuric acid  Amanitin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
 D:\gamedata-sybil2\data\logs\2020\01\15\round-128220\game.log (19 hits)
	Line 7893: [2020-01-15 11:46:54.522] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Auxiliary Restrooms (65, 124, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 7948: [2020-01-15 11:47:31.530] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Auxiliary Restrooms (65, 124, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 8347: [2020-01-15 11:51:09.791] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Port Maintenance (73, 114, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 8816: [2020-01-15 11:55:26.717] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Port Maintenance (77, 114, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 8881: [2020-01-15 11:56:02.832] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Port Quarter Maintenance (76, 113, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 8942: [2020-01-15 11:56:28.713] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Port Maintenance (75, 114, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 9041: [2020-01-15 11:57:29.202] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Port Maintenance (72, 125, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 9066: [2020-01-15 11:57:45.972] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Port Primary Hallway (73, 134, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 9416: [2020-01-15 12:01:36.423] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Port Quarter Maintenance (71, 113, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 9461: [2020-01-15 12:02:11.833] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Port Quarter Maintenance (70, 110, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 9481: [2020-01-15 12:02:28.184] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Port Quarter Maintenance (69, 114, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 9700: [2020-01-15 12:05:24.350] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Port Quarter Maintenance (73, 111, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 10176: [2020-01-15 12:11:09.680] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Emergency Shuttle (209, 75, 1))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 10209: [2020-01-15 12:11:26.556] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (CentCom Recovery Ship (196, 86, 1))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 10215: [2020-01-15 12:11:28.624] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (CentCom Recovery Ship (198, 78, 1))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 10218: [2020-01-15 12:11:30.816] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (CentCom Recovery Ship (204, 79, 1))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 10219: [2020-01-15 12:11:33.497] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (CentCom Recovery Ship (199, 83, 1))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 10231: [2020-01-15 12:11:37.879] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (CentCom Recovery Ship (205, 85, 1))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 10261: [2020-01-15 12:12:05.945] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (CentCom Recovery Ship (194, 77, 1))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Cyanide  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Tirizene  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Coniine  Amatoxin ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
 D:\gamedata-sybil2\data\logs\2020\01\15\round-128226\game.log (6 hits)
	Line 6326: [2020-01-15 13:42:35.356] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Abandoned Gambling Den (121, 163, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Nicotine  Space Lube  Sulphuric acid  Entropic Polypnium  Fluorosulfuric acid  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Tirizene  Coniine  Cyanide  Phlogiston ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 7470: [2020-01-15 13:55:52.780] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Abandoned Gambling Den (121, 163, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Nicotine  Space Lube  Sulphuric acid  Entropic Polypnium  Fluorosulfuric acid  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Tirizene  Coniine  Cyanide ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 10418: [2020-01-15 14:28:36.358] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Brig (200, 132, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Nicotine  Space Lube  Sulphuric acid  Entropic Polypnium  Fluorosulfuric acid  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Tirizene  Coniine  Cyanide  Phlogiston ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 10462: [2020-01-15 14:29:05.572] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Brig (201, 135, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Nicotine  Space Lube  Sulphuric acid  Entropic Polypnium  Fluorosulfuric acid  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Tirizene  Coniine  Cyanide  Phlogiston ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 10479: [2020-01-15 14:29:13.449] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Brig (200, 130, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Nicotine  Space Lube  Sulphuric acid  Entropic Polypnium  Fluorosulfuric acid  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Tirizene  Coniine  Cyanide  Phlogiston ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
	Line 10480: [2020-01-15 14:29:14.721] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Brig (200, 130, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Nicotine  Space Lube  Sulphuric acid  Entropic Polypnium  Fluorosulfuric acid  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Tirizene  Coniine  Cyanide  Phlogiston ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.
 D:\gamedata-sybil2\data\logs\2020\01\15\round-128231\game.log (1 hit)
	Line 5033: [2020-01-15 16:43:02.012] GAME: A chemical smoke reaction has taken place in (Starboard Maintenance (150, 135, 2))[ Space drugs  Mindbreaker Toxin  Space Lube  Cyanide  Tirizene  Coniine  Condensed Capsaicin  Capsaicin Oil  Carpotoxin  Amanitin  Amatoxin  Fluorosulfuric acid  Sulphuric acid  Phlogiston  Fluorine  Chlorine ]. Last touched by cerebrallolzy.

A total of 39 hits, looking at logs from today (15th of January) on Manuel - while these are without context, I felt the frequency with which this occurs worth noting.

[Cerebral]

Yes... I did it a lot. There was a blob, and I found that fluro works REALLY well on them. I don't see how any of this has to do with the rule that I'm trying to fix. All of this I roleplay'd and I didn't murder anyone with them that wasn't willing anyway. Sounds like experimentation to me just with roleplay added. The thing in question here is Botany allowed to have a Chem Dispenser(and experiment just like Chem) or is that powergaming. Just saying, I also do my job(feed the Chef, and get Chem their Omnizine etc) and the bounties first before I start doing my own thing.

As for the Chems... I just throw what I have on hand in it. Some of the stuff required to make medicine for Chem is also in the hacked section of the vending machine. The only gas grenades I forced upon people were fat grenades because everyone was starving.

[Vekter]

I think you're having trouble understanding something: the problem wasn't what was in the grenades. It's that you were making them at all.

[Cerebral]

That's... even worse? So you're not allowed to use gaseous decomposition?

Just for reference I'm not throwing a "grenade" it's just a potleaf or what ever I want with the gaseous decomposition trait. I'm not making literal grenades.

[skoglol]

Gaseous decomposition plants are in the realm of hydroponics, and combined with liquid contents make smoke reaction when squashed. Feels like there is a misunderstanding here, as grenades are mentioned.

[Cerebral]

Gaseous decomposition plants are in the realm of hydroponics, and combined with liquid contents make smoke reaction when squashed. Feels like there is a misunderstanding here, as grenades are mentioned.

Yeah that's my bad... I had asked Vekter if he's good with Botany he said yes. So I assumed that he knew I wasn't making literal gas grenades. I completely understand why that'd(making literal grenades) be against the rules as I don't possess that knowledge IC. The stuff that I've created(aside from the phlog) is Botany grown.

Spoiler:

PM to- Admins : I thought botanist and chemists were under the same rulings?
Admin PM from- Vekter : Not as far as I'm aware. Hydroponics doesn't start with a chemical dispenser, after all.

This is what I made the thread about by the way.

[Nabski]

I'm confused, was there a note or ban attached to this? If so it should be in the ban appeals.

If you acknowledge the admin was just doing their job and aren't upset about their personal behavior towards you then this should be in policy discussion.

[Cerebral]

I'm confused, was there a note or ban attached to this? If so it should be in the ban appeals.

If you acknowledge the admin was just doing their job and aren't upset about their personal behavior towards you then this should be in policy discussion.

I don't want to repeat myself, but since I am defending myself I will... the only reason I posted this as a complaint is because he was the only one to actually get onto me for it. It appears to have been a misunderstanding however which explains why.

[Vekter]

I think I realize what happened now. It sounds like this is partially my fault and partially due to bad logging - the admin log shows those pods as grenades, hence why I thought he was overstepping his boundaries. So half my fault for not knowing those were a thing and half the game's for not having proper logging on these.

My apologies, Cerebral. You're good to keep doing whatever. I'll see about having logging updated to reflect these.

[Hulkamania]

Regardless of whether or not this is a policy discussion thread, this seems to have come to a resolution by both parties. I'm considering it.. closed? We'll go with closed.