The new hunger system

phil235 · Post by **phil235** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:59 pm #52763

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/6329

Do you like it or hate it ?
What part of it should be changed?

peoplearestrange · Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:23 pm

Hasn't this already been merged?

Personally haven't seen it in game yet, but from the PR really love the new icons and what it implements. Looks pretty decent. Anyone have any direct feedback from the gameplay itself?

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:50 am #52879

It makes eating more of a critical part of the game that can't be brushed off by chugging raisins. I love it. People will hate it at first but ultimately it's 2hardcore4u and makes the chef WAY more relevant, people eat his food a lot more.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:32 am #52937

Every trip to the mining asteroid now starts with a decent breakfast to get that blue hunger boost. Eating actually matters now which is pretty cool. Kinda hope to see this expanded on a bit in the future.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:30 am #52940

I like it. Alternate hunger boosts would be neat but this creates more congregation and importance for the cafetera.

Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:24 pm

I thought I would hate this and I'm winding up liking it a lot more in practice than I thought I would.

danno · Post by **danno** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:38 pm #53237

this seems pretty tight
I hope it plays out well.

iyaerP · Post by **iyaerP** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:02 am #53275

I was playing as chef earlier, and people were actually coming up and eating the food just about as fast as I could make it, rather than just grab raisens from the vendies. Felt good. Of course, there was the minor problem of botanists just pumping out drugs and ignoring the need for real food, but that is a seperate issue.

kosmos · Post by **kosmos** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:23 am #53342

First thing that hit me was that we now have a constant hunger bar to clutter the view. We don't have a "pressure/temperature: nominal" bar. It would make sense if we only saw hunger if its status to something else but nominal. And the same could go with the health bar.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:52 am #53347

Press f12

kosmos · Post by **kosmos** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:42 pm #53435

paprika wrote:Press f12

If that was guided at me, I appreciate your effort to help me out, but pressing F12 just hides all of the hud. I'd still like to be able to see my inventory on the screen.

Post by **lumipharon** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:07 am #53440

The new system is great if you have competent service staff. If you don't, it's AWFUL AS SHIT. Because of the sugar content of junk food you have to constantly stuff your face to keep slowdown at bay. So better hope your chef is alive and doing his job, or you're in for a wild ride.

peoplearestrange · Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:47 am

Like the change, really works and adds something to the chef role.
Gives an interesting change to how you play as well, through lunch breaks and what have you.

Reimoo · Post by **Reimoo** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:13 am #53507

I like it.

We're going to get a cooking overhaul with this too, right?

Post by **lumipharon** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:54 pm #53601

So I played chef for a few round yesterday, each time I had a botanist that was varying levels of competent. With un-upgraded microwaves, you have to work HARD to shit out enoguh food for a 60 man crew, and that's with literally infinite meat thanks to a few bottles of clonex. You basically have to keep working non stop, and crew will still be crying about not enough food.

Once you get your microwaves fully upgraded though, it's extremely easy.
Also I find it hilarious that I go in with 15 flour, a little cheese and 3 synth meat, and come out with 27 toasted sandwiches.

danno · Post by **danno** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:26 am #53654

I feel like the hunger meter ticks down too fast and food doesn't really satisfy enough. To have to eat 3 burgers 5 minutes into the round is a bit much.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:24 am #53685

lumipharon wrote:With un-upgraded microwaves, you have to work HARD to shit out enoguh food for a 60 man crew, and that's with literally infinite meat thanks to a few bottles of clonex.

Finally realism in ss13

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:37 pm #53689

I wouldn't mind seeing a reduction in the actual food needed to satisfy your hunger, but the current tickdown rate is fine. The goal is to, in part, force players to regularly leave their work area, which means leaving a near impenetrable fort for some jobs.

phil235 · Post by **phil235** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:56 pm #53691

dezzmont wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing a reduction in the actual food needed to satisfy your hunger, but the current tickdown rate is fine. The goal is to, in part, force players to regularly leave their work area, which means leaving a near impenetrable fort for some jobs.

I barely touched nutriment amounts in food, and nutriment effect on nutrition is same as before.

danno wrote:I feel like the hunger meter ticks down too fast and food doesn't really satisfy enough. To have to eat 3 burgers 5 minutes into the round is a bit much.

I only changed the speed of the nutrition drain when you've ingested sugar. If you don't eat anythingy sugary your nutrition drain will be the same as before.

lumipharon wrote:So I played chef for a few round yesterday, each time I had a botanist that was varying levels of competent. With un-upgraded microwaves, you have to work HARD to shit out enoguh food for a 60 man crew, and that's with literally infinite meat thanks to a few bottles of clonex. You basically have to keep working non stop, and crew will still be crying about not enough food.
Once you get your microwaves fully upgraded though, it's extremely easy.
Also I find it hilarious that I go in with 15 flour, a little cheese and 3 synth meat, and come out with 27 toasted sandwiches.

That's why we might need a new cooking system.

lumipharon wrote:The new system is great if you have competent service staff. If you don't, it's AWFUL AS SHIT. Because of the sugar content of junk food you have to constantly stuff your face to keep slowdown at bay. So better hope your chef is alive and doing his job, or you're in for a wild ride.

I don't know if people realized but the new yellow level gives no maluses and does not correspond to the old yellow level (it's the current orange level). Basically if you only have access to sugary food you shouldn't try to reach blue level or to always stay in green. The nutrition value of sugary food is bigger the more hungry you are, so you might want to only use sugary food if you're in yellow for a while and close to orange.

Delicious wrote:Unrelatedly, you seem to lose nutrients for drifting through space based on tiles traveled rather than time spent without eating. I don't know if that's actually the case or not, but it's what seems to happen.

Time but also movement have always drained your nutrition level. My hunger PR didn't touch the drain due to movement.

kosmos wrote:First thing that hit me was that we now have a constant hunger bar to clutter the view. We don't have a "pressure/temperature: nominal" bar. It would make sense if we only saw hunger if its status to something else but nominal. And the same could go with the health bar.

We can always add a semi-transparency to all "normal" hunger level icons (yellow, green, blue).

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:02 pm #53693

No one said you touched it, I was just noting the outcomes of your change.

It is your baby now, I get it, and take this feedback as you will, but your decision to not change things is just as significant as your decision to change things.

It takes a lot of hamburgers to get from empty to full. That is both unrealistic in the bad needless way, and annoying. That is bad. You may not have caused this, and even if you did that is fine. I just think it should be changed as part of your overall new hunger system, it doesn't reflect on you.

Perakp · Post by **Perakp** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 4:46 pm #53713

Vending machine stuff should keep hunger away slightly longer, and increase the rate you get hungry less. Right now eating stuff from vending machines is hardly a viable option for keeping hunger away.

It needs a bit of tweaking but the idea is definitely worth keeping.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sat Dec 27, 2014 4:48 pm

But eating soley from vending machines isn't meant to be " a viable option". That was the whole point of this change. Just grab pun-pun and hop the desk.

Perakp · Post by **Perakp** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:43 pm #53717

If they are not meant to be an option then why have them at all.

danno · Post by **danno** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:42 pm #53752

phil235 wrote:
danno wrote:I feel like the hunger meter ticks down too fast and food doesn't really satisfy enough. To have to eat 3 burgers 5 minutes into the round is a bit much.
I only changed the speed of the nutrition drain when you've ingested sugar. If you don't eat anythingy sugary your nutrition drain will be the same as before.

I don't recall eating anything before that point (it was literally 5-7 minutes into the shift)
and even if I had, to need 3 full burgers to recover it is kinda bad
1 burger should be maybe not a "full meal", but damn, more than this

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:51 pm #53753

I was under the impression that burgers are extremely easy to make, and not very nutritious, only slightly moreso than vending machine food. I thought the more complex ingredients you get = more nutrition and vitamins.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:13 pm #53759

Perakp wrote:If they are not meant to be an option then why have them at all.

They are meant to be a stopgap measure, and right now they don't function as one.

danno · Post by **danno** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:52 pm #53768

paprika wrote:I was under the impression that burgers are extremely easy to make, and not very nutritious, only slightly moreso than vending machine food. I thought the more complex ingredients you get = more nutrition and vitamins.

That's probably a fair point, actually. It still feels like the hunger ticks down really fast, though.

Alex Crimson · Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:55 pm

I havent played much since the hunger update, but one time a Chef made me give him a box, and he made a nice little packed lunch for me. I think there were two pieces of food and a drink in there. Lasted me until the end of the round, nice guy.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:10 am #53809

Delicious wrote:If non-chefs have to play chef to satisfy their character's hunger, then the hunger system is too demanding on players.

>having to eat food to satisfy hunger is too demanding
Isn't that the entire point of having hunger? Why have hunger in the first place if all you need to do is find the closest vending machine?

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:34 am #53813

You said that chef's food should be completely optional. Which defeats the entire point of the updating hunger system to relevant.

Raven776 · Post by **Raven776** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:57 am #53817

Can you still grind up food and make nutriment pills?

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:00 am #53819

Yeah, and vitamin pills. You can be a real spaceman eating pills all day to satisfy your hunger IIRC. It's totally viable.

Raven776 · Post by **Raven776** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:16 am #53821

Does the chef get a condimaster in box? If he does, just bolt open that door, grind up all food, and use that thing to get vitamin and nutriment bottles...

If not, I think there's a spare board in tech storage. Maybe there should be a public access grinder somewhere... I haven't played box in so long, I can't recall if they had anything similar to a public botany lab or a maint version of it anywhere.

kosmos · Post by **kosmos** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:42 pm #53883

phil235 wrote:We can always add a semi-transparency to all "normal" hunger level icons (yellow, green, blue).

My point was that showing the player information "your hunger status: OK" is of no use at all. I could just not see that icon at all and nothing would change.

As for the update generally, I'd prefer if service jobs weren't made this essential for everyone, as in making crew slow if Chef & Botanists are not available. Don't get me wrong, this has been a good update, but it's not the best solution imo.

The best solution would be if jobs like this worked like the Virologist now: giving people a big bonus if someone competent works as the Virologist. And if there's no Virologist on the station, no one knows, because it doesn't affect anyone in a bad way.

This would mean removing hunger altogether (no cons if no chef) but getting big bonuses from consuming high-end food (big bonus if competent chef onboard).

Vigilare · Post by **Vigilare** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:43 pm #53884

*muffled snickering from Virology*

Raven776 · Post by **Raven776** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:43 pm #53946

There's ALWAYS someone working in virology. Even if you just walked in there and the medihud was still on the counter, the diseases still in the cabinet, and no mess of bottles on the floor. You can walk away, and in ten to twenty minutes some guy in a big puffy marshmallow suit will be coming out to either ruin the station with the plague or give everyone free sanic speed and weight even.

With this change in mind, Weight even is even better.

danno · Post by **danno** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:22 pm #53959

Weight Even went from sure why not to completely necessary in this update

phil235 · Post by **phil235** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:05 pm #53980

danno wrote:To have to eat 3 burgers 5 minutes into the round is a bit much.

You don't have to eat anything for roughly the first 30 minutes of your shift, even if you move a lot. The first negative effect only appears 5-10 minutes after reaching the orange level.

Given the feedback, I think I'll nerf sugar a bit, making it a bit more nutritious and drain your nutrition less fast.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:11 pm #53984

May be smart. I did notice that I usually only got hungry if I had suggary food to top off, it was almost like it was worse than not eating.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:03 am #54376

This may not be the most perfect place for this, but the new hunger system and resulting actual reliance on food kind of highlights something I always found odd about chef: monkeys give 5 meat, but gibbed human corpses only give 3. Shouldn't this be the other way around? Why the fuck is there more meat on a monkey than a human?

phil235 · Post by **phil235** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:42 pm #54439

bandit wrote:This may not be the most perfect place for this, but the new hunger system and resulting actual reliance on food kind of highlights something I always found odd about chef: monkeys give 5 meat, but gibbed human corpses only give 3. Shouldn't this be the other way around? Why the fuck is there more meat on a monkey than a human?

The method to gather the meat is different, we just have to assume that the gibber is less efficient at producing meat than the metal spike thing. I'm pretty sure that putting a monkey in the gibber only gives three meat.

soulgamer · Post by **soulgamer** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:56 pm #54450

In other news this really makes radiation puking suck. Not a bad thing.

kevinthezhang · Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:36 am

I play chef a lot (i was the chef that alex mentioned with the lunchboxes) and something that I'm grateful for is that this update really increases the number of people who grab food from the kitchen. On the other hand there is still only one chef, so the process of making enough food really strains the ability of the chef. Perhaps we could expand the kitchen a litte and add a sous-chef of sorts to help reduce the workload? Something else i thought of was just giving nutriment/vitamin to mixed drinks; the annoyance of alcohol would balance out chugging tons of it.

Ergovisavi · Post by **Ergovisavi** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:47 am #55008

I literally can barely tell the difference between the old system and the new system. You still don't get hungry for a bazillion years, and the bonuses for eating well are fairly lackluster. Add in the fact that syndi-cakes are still bullshit overpowered...

Post by **oranges** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:56 am #55011

I think it' just goes orange real fast and that triggers my OCD and I try to keep it green and it's hard

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:46 pm #55116

oranges wrote:I think it' just goes orange real fast and that triggers my OCD and I try to keep it green and it's hard

>not constantly snacking your way to blue