What the super matter with the shuttle call?

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What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby OFQ » Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:23 pm #538505

The fact that shuttle allays getting called when SM explodes is kinda more annoying joke than the title of the thread. Not only it sucks for the rest of the station but it also makes engies feel anxiety about experimenting with SM and engies feelings meter the most. On top of this it sucks for SM sabotage shenanigans since the crew never waits to see if SM delamination will bring about something terrifying like singuloth or tesloose or just maxcap the engeneering - they simply call the shuttle and red alert. Yeah and it completely removes the idea of "ok SM is fucked beyond any hope, how to minimize the damage so we can save the station"

In fact the station can survive and get patched even if SM does "maxed" maxcap (at least on Meta) since n2/o2/air storages usually intact and just need a repiping. Also at least 3 solar arrays should be fine with full SMES so it will give the crew plenty of time to start burner turbine, setup TEG(with plasma from the burner chamber storage or Cargonia), add more solars or even make a mini SM with a shard. Hell, even diamond powered electric generators are pretty robust.

The biggest problem with staying that I see is that gravy generator gets destroyed and everyone gets brain damage - if those two problems can be mitigated I would say "OH SHIT SM DELEM" shuttle call should be a thing of the past and a reason for ahelp ;)

The solution can be moving gravy gen further away from SM and making SM brain damage somewhat easily curable. Alternatively, like I proposed in a different thread, the "casualty stabilization" containment thingy can freez and unanchor SM so an hero engie or a borgy could drag it into space in extremely short period of time after which it will explode.


- - - - - - - -

Btw, it will provide a good ground for condoms to call engineering ERT team to fix the station. It's pretty rare but fun ghost role and SM explosion usually creates a lot of ghosts with the basic engineering knowledge :D
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby Jack7D1 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:27 pm #538851

Bring on the gravy.

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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby Sheodir » Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:21 pm #538862

This isn't limited to the SM. The shuttle keeps getting called rather than dealing with the problem even when it's anti-fun.

>Find nest with two xenomorphs just starting out
>CALL THE SHUTTLE

sigh
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby Qbopper » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:36 pm #538908

Sheodir wrote:This isn't limited to the SM. The shuttle keeps getting called rather than dealing with the problem even when it's anti-fun.

>Find nest with two xenomorphs just starting out
>CALL THE SHUTTLE

sigh


I think this is a combination of the issues people usually bring up (people being lazy, not wanting to die, wanting to deny greentext, etc.) but also related to the shuttle delays - if you DON'T call the shuttle and the crew fucks up, there's a solid chance you can basically get fucked and be unable to call it after the threat snowballs

I don't think that excuses it but I think it's part of the problem
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby Sheodir » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:37 pm #538910

Qbopper wrote:I think this is a combination of the issues people usually bring up (people being lazy, not wanting to die, wanting to deny greentext, etc.) but also related to the shuttle delays - if you DON'T call the shuttle and the crew fucks up, there's a solid chance you can basically get fucked and be unable to call it after the threat snowballs

I don't think that excuses it but I think it's part of the problem


I prefer the round to end with complete disaster and no shuttle call than any more early shuttle calls

There should be a half hour minimum roundtime on calling the shuttle that'd teach people to try and fix situations
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby Qbopper » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:46 pm #538916

Sheodir wrote:I prefer the round to end with complete disaster and no shuttle call than any more early shuttle calls


but like. how does the round actually end

I'm a boomer and remember when the only ghost role was PAI so I think people are too quick to complain when they have like 400 things to do as a ghost now, but the round does have to actually end at some point
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby Sheodir » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:02 am #538984

Qbopper wrote:
Sheodir wrote:I prefer the round to end with complete disaster and no shuttle call than any more early shuttle calls


but like. how does the round actually end

I'm a boomer and remember when the only ghost role was PAI so I think people are too quick to complain when they have like 400 things to do as a ghost now, but the round does have to actually end at some point


I suppose dynamic would fix it. Eventually an antag would win/lose.
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby PKPenguin321 » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:45 am #538996

Sheodir wrote:
Qbopper wrote:
Sheodir wrote:I prefer the round to end with complete disaster and no shuttle call than any more early shuttle calls


but like. how does the round actually end

I'm a boomer and remember when the only ghost role was PAI so I think people are too quick to complain when they have like 400 things to do as a ghost now, but the round does have to actually end at some point


I suppose dynamic would fix it. Eventually an antag would win/lose.

when it comes to xenos taking over the station your only hope is either the shuttle or a deathsquad with nuke codes
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby Sheodir » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:58 am #538998

PKPenguin321 wrote:when it comes to xenos taking over the station your only hope is either the shuttle or a deathsquad with nuke codes


Literally why/how

Xenos take a small eternity to add to their numbers and are really not that strong healthwise, a Ripley can 1v1 a queen in most situations

When xenos steamroll it's usually bnecause 80% of the station decided to fuck off and shuttlecall and stay away and the other 20% rushed at them with stunbatons
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby NoxVS » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:05 am #538999

Sheodir wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:when it comes to xenos taking over the station your only hope is either the shuttle or a deathsquad with nuke codes


Literally why/how

Xenos take a small eternity to add to their numbers and are really not that strong healthwise, a Ripley can 1v1 a queen in most situations

When xenos steamroll it's usually bnecause 80% of the station decided to fuck off and shuttlecall and stay away and the other 20% rushed at them with stunbatons

1v1, xenos win. A queen can just walk away from a ripley. Hunters can disarm spam and bam, you are now dead. A single xeno can kill most of the crew
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby Sheodir » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:08 am #539001

NoxVS wrote:
Sheodir wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:when it comes to xenos taking over the station your only hope is either the shuttle or a deathsquad with nuke codes


Literally why/how

Xenos take a small eternity to add to their numbers and are really not that strong healthwise, a Ripley can 1v1 a queen in most situations

When xenos steamroll it's usually bnecause 80% of the station decided to fuck off and shuttlecall and stay away and the other 20% rushed at them with stunbatons

1v1, xenos win. A queen can just walk away from a ripley. Hunters can disarm spam and bam, you are now dead. A single xeno can kill most of the crew


A queen's movement speed isn't that much better than a Ripley and by default xenos will usually end up holed up in a room trying to get hosts. Whilst disarm spam is annoying it's countered by not being alone, in taht you're right 1v1 xenos have a massive advantage vs non mechs, but again, this is a matter of basic crew competence. I've seen even small concerted efforts to fight xenos as a crew work out fine - the issue is how often people just spam shuttle call IT'S DOOMED mentality. So what if it's doomed, even if it was? The game's more fun when you try to actually win.
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby XivilaiAnaxes » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:40 am #539006

Gonna be honest - if the sm delams it's either because:

A - Your engineers are stupid. They aren't going to be repairing shit.

B - Antags griefed it and your engineers are either dead or stupid. They aren't fixing it and if the antags do it properly there's a tesla/singuloth and the station is probably proper fucked. On the chance they just maxcap it's probably a dick move on the admins part to send an ERT assuming they're calling the shuttle.

C - Admins griefed the supermatter. This is very rare and I guarantee the engineers are too pissed off at said admins to redo the autism project that caused admins to grief it.
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby OFQ » Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:15 am #539023

The problem can be addressed at the broth ends. Making situations that have 99% chance to end in a shuttle call more manageable (unless it's a total disaster like a tesloose or singuloth) but also punishing/preventing questionable shuttle calls by:
1. Removing AI shuttle call and borg ability to red alart. Both because AIs getting really bored at slow/green shift and bait shuttle calls but also because being ASSMOVE kinda makes it so that almost any shitty situation is a good enough reason to call it.
2. If you call shuttle under 30 minutes into the round when the half of the crew still alive + there is no catastrophic event like "IT'S LOOSE!!!" you have to get 2-3 shuttle call conformations from the heads (if there is more than a single head)
3. If should gets called without particular reason admemes (Centcom) should deny it or even demote condom for being a pussy.
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby PKPenguin321 » Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:40 am #539027

Sheodir wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:when it comes to xenos taking over the station your only hope is either the shuttle or a deathsquad with nuke codes


Literally why/how

i can smell the new
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby Sheodir » Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:04 pm #539086

PKPenguin321 wrote:
Sheodir wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:when it comes to xenos taking over the station your only hope is either the shuttle or a deathsquad with nuke codes


Literally why/how

i can smell the new

2015 key, playing on tg since 2016

But sure I'm "new" for pointing out how even basic crew competence can beat xenos and how crew panic is an anti fun attitude lmao
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby Lazengann » Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:24 pm #539095

Xenos are a round ending antag, like swarmers. They're referred to as such because their purpose is to end the round.

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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby OFQ » Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:38 pm #539100

Well... Killing all the monkeys and augmenting shitsec/heads with a cyborg chests can be a good final solution to the benos problem. But combat mech/plasma/maxcap also works. Besides viewtopic.php?f=10&t=25367

The thing is that the crew usually disorganized + everyone trying to hide in departure/shuttle since the shuttle allays called when benos conformed.
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby Sheodir » Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:00 pm #539106

OFQ wrote:Well... Killing all the monkeys and augmenting shitsec/heads with a cyborg chests can be a good final solution to the benos problem. But combat mech/plasma/maxcap also works. Besides viewtopic.php?f=10&t=25367

The thing is that the crew usually disorganized + everyone trying to hide in departure/shuttle since the shuttle allays called when benos conformed.

This is my point exactly. They are only "round ending" because the crew panics at shuttle calls rather than cement any effort to fight them other than one or two hobos with shotguns. Everytime the crew makes an actual effort to fight xenos rather than shuttlecall, they win. I mostly see this when it happens to also be a blob round.

Lazengann wrote:Xenos are a round ending antag, like swarmers. They're referred to as such because their purpose is to end the round.

Except Xenos can come from a myriad source and in nowhere is it stated in the game "xenos are unbeatable!". Their main weapon is a quick and easy disarm and facehugger combo that can be countered in a myriad ways.

As my point was saying, if you stop the crew from shuttlecalling at the earliest inconvenience, people would actually have an incentive to try and save the station. It'd be interesting gameplay, even if they lost, unlike shuttlecalling which is braindead and (for Manuel) pretty much RP-less.
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby Cobby » Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:49 pm #539355

Calling the shuttle because most of your population is civilian facing an organized threat like Xenos and cult seems bvery much in line from a RP point of view, although it’s meh for gameplay I guess.
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby OFQ » Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:27 pm #539370

Heads, sec and silicons are armed. That's 10-15 players at the server(RP) with 50 players cap. Where's even USA military is like 0.5% :roll:
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby Sheodir » Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:26 pm #539386

Cobby wrote:Calling the shuttle because most of your population is civilian facing an organized threat like Xenos and cult seems bvery much in line from a RP point of view, although it’s meh for gameplay I guess.

We also roleplay as the employees of a faceless often amoral corporation whose literal modus operandi is sending barely equipped crewmen onto a hellplanet for magic rocks and that doesn't let them off the hook even if they die (even if that last part is less literal without cloning)

I've always framed it that way when playing a Head - that going to Centcomm will mean a lenghty report, legal processes and possible demotions and docked pay, not warm hugs and headpats
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Re: What the super matter with the shuttle call?

Postby Taylork2 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 6:02 pm #539401

OFQ wrote:Heads, sec and silicons are armed. That's 10-15 players at the server(RP) with 50 players cap. Where's even USA military is like 0.5% :roll:

Robotics is likely to have a combat mech on standby and competent miners will be geared up anywhere from decent to very power anti-xeno weaponry/gear.
Engineers and atmos techs have plasma canisters and appropriate hardsuits to survive a plasma fire, meaning any one of them can end the xeno nest.
Science will likely have hulk/useful anti-xeno mutations(though maybe not mass produced).
Cargo might not have it at first, but a competent cargo can quickly purchase flamethrowers and laser/energy guns, hardsuits, and riot shields.
This could easily be most of the crew are capable of fighting the xenos(within say 5 minutes of xenos discovery).

While I know Event Hall/Bagil have early shuttle call problems, but if even Manuel is, then it sounds like a possible solution is admins making IC solutions from Centcomm.


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