Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:40 pm #53197

Bottom post of the previous page:

Then... warm it up?

Post by **MisterPerson** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:32 pm #53232

I don't think you understand what was going on or even why this was removed.

Upgraded microwave -> donk pocket -> result = two donk pockets, one warm one cold. Obviously, infinite donk pockets.

If you microwave the warm one again, you get another two donk pockets, except the warm one has another bunch of tricord inside. Repeat for a donk pocket with infinite tricord.

The reason this was cut was the recipe was just poorly written and not worth rewriting because any rewrite would also be poorly written. It's also not really a big deal, so I jumped at the chance to make the recipe and microwave code easier to work with in the future.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:59 pm #53236

Then can you add 5 units of tricord to normal donk pockets? Doesnt seem like that would be an issue, right?

deathhoof · Post by **deathhoof** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:23 pm #53243

>grab a roburger
>grind
>inject nanites into ingrediants
>put ingrediants into upgraded microwave
>presto! 2 or 3 dishes each with the ammount of nanites placed into the microwave
>grind recieved food
>extract nanintes
>repeat untill you have 10 billion units
>rapid syringe gun everyone into a borg

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:26 pm #53245

Wasnt it just said that the extra reagents injected into food do not carry over into new recipes?

deathhoof · Post by **deathhoof** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:16 pm #53264

No. It was said that donk pockets that cool down lose the extra regents.

Alex Crimson · Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:39 pm

Really? looked more like the second donk pocket was cold and didnt contain any extra reagent. If what you say is true then its an exploit that involves the whole upgraded microwave, not just donk pockets.

iyaerP · Post by **iyaerP** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:53 pm #53272

Yeah, because roburgers are just sitting around all over the place.

Seriously though, this sounds like it would take one if statement to fix, no need to axe donk pockets.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:07 am #53277

iyaerP wrote:Yeah, because roburgers are just sitting around all over the place.

Seriously though, this sounds like it would take one if statement to fix, no need to axe donk pockets.

Hey guys with 2 hours of work and stars aligning something interesting might happen! Good thing we put a stop to that though, praise us!

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:17 am #53312

my main beef with this is that you could literally have just made it into a separate item and taken out the snowflake warming code
but instead you took the mature "get fucked" route and removed it because you "couldnt be bothered"

Post by **MisterPerson** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:55 am #53334

It's a gimmick, it doesn't matter.

danno · Post by **danno** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:02 am #53335

were donk pockets seriously removed
something that iconic is worth the time fixing. I seriously hope someone takes the time to restore them in some fashion.

ExplosiveCrate · Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:03 am

Then why not remove the entire cooking system and replace it with astronaut food? I mean, the only other reason the donk pocket could be seen as a gimmick is because of how it cooled after a while, but it surely can't be that.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:09 am #53338

danno wrote:were donk pockets seriously removed
something that iconic is worth the time fixing. I seriously hope someone takes the time to restore them in some fashion.

Literally nobody cares but a gagglefuck of people who don't play the game anymore anyway

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:04 am #53348

tbh why not just remove the feedback forum if you dont actually give half a fucking shit about anything the players say, mrperson (or most of the other vocal contributors)

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:27 am #53349

MisterPerson wrote:It's a gimmick, it doesn't matter.

If it didn't matter there wouldn't be a 3 page thread complaining about its removal. I mean really.

Post by **Thunder11** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:55 am #53351

Why not just make warm donk pockets never cool down?

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:50 pm #53389

Holy shit they were actually removed? For what purpose? Can't we just remove the warming bit and have them be like any other recipe if you are so goddamn determined to take easy tricord away from mining?

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:53 pm #53390

Or just give each of the three miners a free medkit on spawn.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:55 pm #53391

I for one welcome our new coder overlords.

Raven776 · Post by **Raven776** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:36 pm #53395

Listen, if you're having trouble mining, I need you to do a few things.
Take a step back. Take a breath. Go and firmly put your hands back on your keyboard.
And get good.

Augmentation master race here anyways. Go to robotics, get that free 10 brute resist from augments, steal a security jumpsuit/ask nicely, then buy a mining drone for that massive welder.

You can face tank a goliath with the pickaxe if you're quick enough, or you can quickly welder heal your chest and legs back during the fight. Bring a cable cord and stuff a few extra welders in your internals box, and you're good forever.

I've never died doing this mining unless it was LOLGIBTONITE with the explosion silliness.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:46 pm #53396

paprika wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
MisterPerson wrote:It's a gimmick, it doesn't matter.
If it didn't matter there wouldn't be a 3 page thread complaining about its removal. I mean really.
This is either

A) indicative of a shitty community that overreacts when MUH GIMMICK gets removed
B) bad coders

I'll give you a hint

It's not B

And its exactly this attitude that causes these threads. (Plot twist: Its really B.)

Raven776 wrote:Listen, if you're having trouble mining, I need you to do a few things.
Take a step back. Take a breath. Go and firmly put your hands back on your keyboard.
And get good.

Augmentation master race here anyways. Go to robotics, get that free 10 brute resist from augments, steal a security jumpsuit/ask nicely, then buy a mining drone for that massive welder.

You can face tank a goliath with the pickaxe if you're quick enough, or you can quickly welder heal your chest and legs back during the fight. Bring a cable cord and stuff a few extra welders in your internals box, and you're good forever.

I've never died doing this mining unless it was LOLGIBTONITE with the explosion silliness.

>tells everyone else to git gud
>dies to a stationary explosion on a 5 second timer

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:54 pm #53397

Raven776 wrote:Listen, if you're having trouble mining, I need you to do a few things.
Take a step back. Take a breath. Go and firmly put your hands back on your keyboard.
And get good.

Augmentation master race here anyways. Go to robotics, get that free 10 brute resist from augments, steal a security jumpsuit/ask nicely, then buy a mining drone for that massive welder.

You can face tank a goliath with the pickaxe if you're quick enough, or you can quickly welder heal your chest and legs back during the fight. Bring a cable cord and stuff a few extra welders in your internals box, and you're good forever.

I've never died doing this mining unless it was LOLGIBTONITE with the explosion silliness.

So your suggestion is to be a massive powergamer? Who the hell does all that just for mining? The issue here isnt even that mining is hard, which it isnt. Its that fact that miners used donk pockets to heal minor damage, yet they were removed/nerfed for no good reason.

Ok so there was an exploit, a very minor exploit that ive never seen anyone "abuse", but an exploit nonetheless. I can understand a coder wanting to fix it an clean up the code, but is it such a hard thing to atleast add 5 units of tricord to the normal "cold" donk pockets to compensate? I have yet to see a valid reason to not do this.

danno · Post by **danno** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:22 pm #53404

miggles wrote:tbh why not just remove the feedback forum if you dont actually give half a fucking shit about anything the players say, mrperson (or most of the other vocal contributors)

I was wondering this a lot but I decided that it isn't a problem with the forum, it's a problem with the people who refuse to recognize it

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 10:26 pm #53417

What do miners get for food instead of donk pockets now? Or are they shit out of luck?

Why couldn't this have been resolved by changing the pointless snowflakey code of Donkpockets to something with more sanity?
I.E - put [food\donkpocket_cold] in microwave, get [food\donkpocket_hot] back

This is more or less exactly the same way Ramen cups work.
Out of the vendors you get a cup with reagent [ramen], add water and a reagent_reaction turns the [ramen] into [hot_ramen]
IIRC theres no BS cooling system attached with that.

Of course the bottom line of the problem is that upgraded microwaves break the first law of alchemy

Post by **lumipharon** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:13 am #53441

Atleast just make cold donk pockets the same as hot donk pockets, if coderscan't be assed to fixed the magic duplication powers of microwaves.

Incomptinence · Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:59 am

I just enjoyed curing world hunger on a station shortly set to explode but why keep something nice when you can be a deleterious buzzword spouting brown nosing husk?

Tricord duping sounds bloody minor, one of the simplest recipes if you just use the literal flood of anti toxin and innaprovaline sloshing around all over medical.

Post by **Thunder11** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:03 pm #53523

The problem isn't duping tricord though, it's duping any other reagent you put in the donk pocket.

Bluespace · Post by **Bluespace** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:28 pm #53529

P much anything can be duped if you put it in a medical mech though so.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:41 pm #53532

Thunder11 wrote:The problem isn't duping tricord though, it's duping any other reagent you put in the donk pocket.

But.... that doesn't happen

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:10 pm #53534

Heres what actually happened:

You upgrade the microwave with an ultra micro laser
You put a cold pocket (4 units of nutriment) in the microwave
You get a warm pocket and two cold pockets.
You can actually put that warm pocket back in the microwave and get another warm pocket and two cold pockets - infinite food - obvious exploit. You could also use a cold pocket from the previous iteration, which gives you the same results

Now you get a cold pocket
You inject it with water, or whatever
Your pocket now has 4 units of nutriment and 15 units of water
You put that pocket in the microwave
You get
-A warm pocket, with 4 units of nutriment, 15 units of water, and now 5 units of tricord
-a cold pocket with 4 units of nutriment
-a cold pocket with 4 units of nutriment

Infinite food exploit: Yes
Infinite Tricord: Technically Yes
Infinite other reagents: No.

iyaerP · Post by **iyaerP** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:00 pm #53540

Infinite donk pockets is basically the entire POINT of upgrading a microwave, and it isn't some huge balance crushing monstrosity like it is being made out to be. It takes top end research and the uranium to make said microlasers. Hell, it isn't even like you're stacking 500 units of tricord into one donk for infinite healing.(Chem can make that amount of tricord in about 30 seconds if they're good, eat it all and have 10 minutes of healing. But god forbid we have our 5 tricord donks.) All it lets you do is heal up a little before going back out into the mining asteroid. You certainly can't eat enough donk pockets for it to matter before you get full. What I want to know is why coders are going so nuts about trivial non-issues like this when there are a ton of actual REAL issues that they could be addressing.

Post by **lumipharon** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:51 pm #53598

Can anyone actually show evidence of donk pockets that have generated huge amounts of some reagent with this exploit? Because literally all the evidence I see points to the contrary.

Raven776 · Post by **Raven776** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:55 am #53675

Alex Crimson wrote:
Raven776 wrote:Listen, if you're having trouble mining, I need you to do a few things.
Take a step back. Take a breath. Go and firmly put your hands back on your keyboard.
And get good.

Augmentation master race here anyways. Go to robotics, get that free 10 brute resist from augments, steal a security jumpsuit/ask nicely, then buy a mining drone for that massive welder.

You can face tank a goliath with the pickaxe if you're quick enough, or you can quickly welder heal your chest and legs back during the fight. Bring a cable cord and stuff a few extra welders in your internals box, and you're good forever.

I've never died doing this mining unless it was LOLGIBTONITE with the explosion silliness.
So your suggestion is to be a massive powergamer? Who the hell does all that just for mining? The issue here isnt even that mining is hard, which it isnt. Its that fact that miners used donk pockets to heal minor damage, yet they were removed/nerfed for no good reason.

Mining is always about powergaming. The entire job seems to be written with the idea in mind that you need to get points quickly, collect loot, make yourself overly protected via goliath plates, and get a bigger and better thing as quickly as possible. You get diamonds to get your drill, you get points to get your weapons and jetpacks. No other job is SOLELY about powergaming yourself into a combat oriented entity as much as mining is, not even security.

What are the tips people use for mining? All of them are powergaming. Drag a medical droid, steal medkits, do whatever else it takes to not wait impatiently for someone to notice your GPS is no longer moving.

So donk pockets are removed? That's one small tool in your arsenal. Go to chemistry and get a pill bottle of tricord if it really means that much to you. Or better yet? Smash open a medbay window, steal the anti-tox, inap, a fifty unit beaker, and a syringe, and stash that all away in your box for a rainy day.

If you need to use a sleeper but no one's around, I'm fairly sure the AI can close it and pump you full of tricord if it needs to, or sleep tox if it's an ass.

Pretty much anything you do in mining is powergaming, though. There's certainly no regular roleplay there. Just because my idea of powergaming is a bit less strict than yours doesn't mean my way of playing is worse.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:12 am #53677

Infinite tricord is a problem, and in my opinion I don't think a default spawning food item should heal, but it seems pretty clear that you can't actually dupe items considering how much information about the glitch seems to be incorect, such as the capacity of donks.

And insulting the playerbase when they call out the change being based on incorrect data or disagreeing with it? Really? Have things transparently gotten that bad? Or are you trying to create justification to lock the thread under the pretense of "Shitposting players?" Either way it is a transparent violation of forum rules. Sure, the thread title is dumb, but we went ahead and treated the thread as valid.

People agree with removals and changes all the time. There is obviously resistance to feature removal but it is transparent that there is a difference between reactions to different removal ideas. The players are not mindlessly shouting "no removals."

Spoiler:

Post by **oranges** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:22 am #53830

Why in the christ is that upgrade microwave spawning more donk pockets?

Does it make more sense with other reagent types?

Anyway, I'm investigating what it would take to generalise the heating system into something more sane so I might look at bringing donk pockets back (without that bizzare duplication thing)

ExplosiveCrate · Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:35 am

Upgraded microwaves duplicate EVERYTHING.

That one slab of meat? Two steaks. Two slices of bread and a chunk of ham? Four slices and two chunks. It's just that donk pockets cool down and can be put back in after a couple of minutes. That's it, that's the "gimmick".

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:25 am #53843

oranges wrote:Why in the christ is that upgrade microwave spawning more donk pockets?

Its just a silly upgrade for the chef that lets him/her/xer produce more food with less ingredients. Donks got bashed because of a never-used "exploit" to farm tricord (a fairly easy to manufacture reagent,) It does it because its generally harmless and because spacemagic.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:56 pm #54206

You can also infinitely get metal rods from kebab. You just need a lot of hungry mouths. Infinite metal.

Probably shouldn't have said that.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:57 pm #54207

Cancel that, closed after I posted it here.

AnonymousNow · Post by **AnonymousNow** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:34 am #55259

God, this is ridiculous. A coder recognises a bug, and instead of fixing it, removes the feature it's attached to? And then berates the playerbase for getting annoyed at this?

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:43 am #55261

AnonymousNow wrote:God, this is ridiculous. A coder recognises a bug, and instead of fixing it, removes the feature it's attached to? And then berates the playerbase for getting annoyed at this?

You must be new here.

AnonymousNow · Post by **AnonymousNow** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:50 am #55262

cedarbridge wrote:
AnonymousNow wrote:God, this is ridiculous. A coder recognises a bug, and instead of fixing it, removes the feature it's attached to? And then berates the playerbase for getting annoyed at this?
You must be new here.

I don't spend a lot of time on the forums. I'm mostly playing the game.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:17 am #55282

>fix 'bug' with something, taking up to a week of your time
>remove buggy feature instead

gee i wonder which option is more attractiev

Miauw · Post by **Miauw** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:00 am #55287

AnonymousNow wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
AnonymousNow wrote:God, this is ridiculous. A coder recognises a bug, and instead of fixing it, removes the feature it's attached to? And then berates the playerbase for getting annoyed at this?
You must be new here.
I don't spend a lot of time on the forums. I'm mostly playing the game.

#rekt

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:32 pm #55324

paprika wrote:>fix 'bug' with something, taking up to a week of your time
>remove buggy feature instead

gee i wonder which option is more attractiev

you know recipe code is the same shit over and over with the paths changed right
it would take less than 2 minutes

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:58 pm #55331

why dont you do it then

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:20 pm #55348

Miauw wrote:
AnonymousNow wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
AnonymousNow wrote:God, this is ridiculous. A coder recognises a bug, and instead of fixing it, removes the feature it's attached to? And then berates the playerbase for getting annoyed at this?
You must be new here.
I don't spend a lot of time on the forums. I'm mostly playing the game.
#rekt

I'd go connection log for connection log and wager I spent more time in game than him too. So no.

paprika wrote:>fix 'bug' with something, taking up to a week of your time
>remove buggy feature instead

gee i wonder which option is more attractiev

Attractive to whom? "Look man, I know your leg's just broken, but its gonna take a lot less time to just saw the damn thing off and find you a plastic one later some time down the line than fuck about casting it up. Not my problem, I've got golf."

Miauw · Post by **Miauw** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:32 pm #55352

miggles wrote:
paprika wrote:>fix 'bug' with something, taking up to a week of your time
>remove buggy feature instead

gee i wonder which option is more attractiev
you know recipe code is the same shit over and over with the paths changed right
it would take less than 2 minutes

its actually different for hot pockets tho, since those have weird stuff with cooling down and stuff while other stuff just has ingredients deleted and become a finished product

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:37 pm #55354

So... what exactly prevents anyone from making donks behave like all other food? This always seemed like the obvious thing to me.

rockpecker · Post by **rockpecker** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:37 pm #55370

paprika wrote:>fix 'bug' with something, taking up to a week of your time
>remove buggy feature instead

gee i wonder which option is more attractiev

Option 3: Leave it the fuck alone, taking zero time and also not pissing everyone off.