Disable assistant maintenance access

Ask and discuss policy about game conduct and rules.
Forum rules
Read these board rules before posting or you'll get reprimanded.
Threads without replies for 30 days will be automatically locked.
User avatar
Gamarr
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:10 pm
Byond Username: Gamarr

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by Gamarr » #571112

Bottom post of the previous page:

What you do is remove assistants entirely and instead have a monkey role for roundstart.
The new role makes you a monkey in one of the pens for departments around. That's it.
User avatar
Flatulent
Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:36 am
Byond Username: FlatulentIndustrialist
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by Flatulent » #571114

Gamarr wrote:What you do is remove assistants entirely and instead have a monkey role for roundstart.
The new role makes you a monkey in one of the pens for departments around. That's it.
Literally makes tiding spare easier lmfao
if you’re reading this please kindly suck my nuts
Mothblocks, winter 2021, “successfully” preventing bagil death with relevant data wrote:You seem to be under the fallacy that reinforcing that Bagil is a TDM shithole where you must carry bolas and spears on you at all times, while looking for the next valid to hunt down is a positive change to the server. I don't. The data suggests other people don't.
imsxz wrote:I give up there’s too many furries
cacogen wrote:i asked oranges how often he plays and he deleted the post
cybersaber101 wrote:Welp, you guys let a terrymin become a headmin, thousand years of darkness.
Vekter wrote:I jerk off Nist a bit too much but he's honestly one of the best silicon players on the server. B.O.R.G.O. is also pretty good.
User avatar
YuiY1997
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:57 am
Byond Username: YuiY1997

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by YuiY1997 » #572403

Absolutely not. Assistants need to have SOMETHING and maint access is basically the only thing they have.

Maybe instead give MORE JOBS MAINT ACCESS
Image
Laz0rgrunt
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:09 am
Byond Username: Laz0r

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by Laz0rgrunt » #572406

I guarantee you that all this is going to result in is Assistants begging for maint access, which most HoP's will give, or assistant mains taking up other valuable jobs to get the access conveniently at roundstart. This is going to solve nothing but shit up other departments with more people who don't want to do their assigned job but just fuck around (and all the power to them, this is a sandbox game primarily and an RP one secondarily). Not a very bright idea at all. Might work on med rp though.
cacogen
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:27 am
Byond Username: Cacogen

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by cacogen » #572427

Kool'kat McLaser is an oldfag now. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. sea beams nigga
technokek wrote:Cannot prove this so just belive me if when say this
User avatar
skoglol
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:25 am
Byond Username: Skoglol
Github Username: kriskog

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by skoglol » #572470

I take no issue with current assistants getting a job for easier maint access. You might make the claim that this will only cause a wasted job slot, but the treshold for contributing is a lot lower if you actually have a role instead of just being a non-role. People already fuck off shiftstart, this will not change much.

Handing out access is also part of the HOP's job, and more work is good. Leaving the decision about maint access up to the crew IC is also perfectly fine.
User avatar
Armhulen
Global Moderator
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:30 pm
Byond Username: Armhulenn
Github Username: bazelart

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by Armhulen » #572477

Laz0rgrunt wrote:I guarantee you that all this is going to result in is Assistants begging for maint access, which most HoP's will give
which is fine
Laz0rgrunt wrote:or assistant mains taking up other valuable jobs to get the access conveniently at roundstart
which is an admin issue, and can be solved with correctly setting the bar
Laz0rgrunt wrote:This is going to solve nothing but shit up other departments with more people who don't want to do their assigned job but just fuck around (and all the power to them, this is a sandbox game primarily and an RP one secondarily). Not a very bright idea at all. Might work on med rp though.
that is a lot of cringe you have contained in those parentheses, but jobs on our codebase are not fleshed out at all. we already don't expect people to religiously follow them because they are mostly "do boring repeat task, get reward"
Image Image Image
VexingRaven
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:33 am
Byond Username: VexingRaven

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by VexingRaven » #573089

I don't think removing maint from assistants is a good idea. And I say this as an engie/atmos main who has to deal with assistants fucking around in maint and breaking shit. Who else besides assistants and traitors really has a reason to be in maint? The jobs all have their own private areas (and most don't even have maint access except their own back door) so they don't have much reason to be in maint. Engies only really need to be in maint to hunt for those damn rats and the wires they break.

Yes, I know they can just hack their way in. That's not the point. Why do we have all these fun little side areas mapped in maint if not for assistants to go screw around it? For that matter, what else will they do if they (aren't supposed to) do that? If you're going through the trouble of hacking, you may as well just hack into somewhere fun like science or the brig instead. At the very least if this is the direction we intend to go then some expansion of common areas is warranted. Right now you have basically the bar, the dorms, the garden, the chapel, and library. And let's be honest here, there's not much to do in any of those except fight or talk.
User avatar
Agux909
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:26 pm
Byond Username: Agux909

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by Agux909 » #573090

VexingRaven wrote:Why do we have all these fun little side areas mapped in maint if not for assistants to go screw around it? For that matter, what else will they do if they (aren't supposed to) do that
Learn how to play the game and assist
oranges wrote:I'm glad you had the intelligence to review your position and understand how stupid it was, most don't
Image

SPACE JANNIES (song)
User avatar
Armhulen
Global Moderator
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:30 pm
Byond Username: Armhulenn
Github Username: bazelart

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by Armhulen » #573096

During the vatgrowing testmerge on sybil I, as a xenobiologist, was hiring assistants every round to swab maint for samples. It was dope. Sorry, I just wanted to tell someone
Image Image Image
User avatar
remanseptim
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:38 pm
Byond Username: Remanseptim

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by remanseptim » #573097

Agux909 wrote:Learn how to play the game and assist
assistants are their own department by this point, so this point is incredibly moot. they even have their own departmental pet, being birdboat.
they're the maintenance-dwelling slum people. the lower class of the station. the wild card (read: general nuisance).
Image
Image
User avatar
Agux909
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:26 pm
Byond Username: Agux909

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by Agux909 » #573106

remanseptim wrote:
Agux909 wrote:Learn how to play the game and assist
assistants are their own department by this point, so this point is incredibly moot. they even have their own departmental pet, being birdboat.
they're the maintenance-dwelling slum people. the lower class of the station. the wild card (read: general nuisance).
I disagree. This is only what you like to think, but it's not something that should be considered set in stone. Current assistant meta is just a really bad habit that has stuck with /tg/ forever and is nowadays considered to be a staple for no good reason. People does it just because people does it, a vicious cycle that has no actual reason to be other than past memes and a virtual convention that players are just used to and comfortable with, and incentivize others to repeat, again, just because.

Assistants are supposed to be what newbies pick to learn the game, period. It's literally the reason why the role is considered separatedly in the job list and will automatically grey-out all the other jobs. You can't assign "medium priority" to assistant, because it isn't an actual job. It's supposed to be what new players pick for learning the game and it's mechanics, before trying actual jobs, and not a semi-antag/griefing/shitting greenlight for when there aren't any admins around.

But as I said before, a change like this today with all the implications I mentioned in my previous posts would obviously bring drastic change in the meta and, of course, the ire of many players, so I can't say it will objectively be the best decision or not.
However, I can certainly say it would be an interesting one.
oranges wrote:I'm glad you had the intelligence to review your position and understand how stupid it was, most don't
Image

SPACE JANNIES (song)
User avatar
remanseptim
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:38 pm
Byond Username: Remanseptim

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by remanseptim » #573138

wasn't prisoner added to fulfill the 'brand new player' role? or is that just what it fell into?
Image
Image
User avatar
Armhulen
Global Moderator
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:30 pm
Byond Username: Armhulenn
Github Username: bazelart

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by Armhulen » #573140

remanseptim wrote:wasn't prisoner added to fulfill the 'brand new player' role? or is that just what it fell into?
Original intent was as a roleplaying role because people would adminhelp to be put in permabrig and they'd just fuck around back there all shift long
Image Image Image
VexingRaven
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:33 am
Byond Username: VexingRaven

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by VexingRaven » #573231

Assistant is the general "civilian" role. If you don't have that, then somebody who just wants to sit in bar and chat, or play around in aux construction or something has to put engineer or some other valuable role. I'm not entirely against removing maint access but I think some mapping changes should be done to make some of the more interesting main spaces not maint. Otherwise, like I said before, why are these spaces there if only 3 roles have access to them, none of which are going to give a shit?
Tlaltecuhtli
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:16 am
Byond Username: Tlaltecuhtli

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by Tlaltecuhtli » #573274

turn half of assistants into department interns ( minor access to 1 department) for new people who want to learn without being a job slot waste or people who want to work less and have less responsibilities
turn the other half into tourists with no access for people first joining and people who want to fuck around and then suicide if they are bored
User avatar
skoglol
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:25 am
Byond Username: Skoglol
Github Username: kriskog

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by skoglol » #573292

Since this is now a headmin election discussion as well, lets talk length. A lot of the early suggestions in https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 52&t=27356 talk about a weekend or two, and that is quite frankly just pointless. If this is going to be a valuable test, it needs to be a thing for long enough for players to adjust to it and start playing as if it was a fact of life. This change will cause a shift of players going to other jobs for access, and that is the point. The threshold for contributing as <current needed role> is a lot lower if you are already playing that role, and filling our regular job slots is a positive development despite some people trying to paint it as a negative. If people break our rules or toe the line as a result of chasing maint access, its an admin issue and we can deal with it accordingly.

Needs to be at least a couple of week, ideally a month or so. It does not have to be a tg-wide test, though it should be applied to at least one non-mrp highpop server.
User avatar
Agux909
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:26 pm
Byond Username: Agux909

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by Agux909 » #573320

I agree. Better yet, make the change to show up lasting for an "undetermined" duration.
oranges wrote:I'm glad you had the intelligence to review your position and understand how stupid it was, most don't
Image

SPACE JANNIES (song)
VexingRaven
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:33 am
Byond Username: VexingRaven

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by VexingRaven » #573478

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:turn half of assistants into department interns ( minor access to 1 department) for new people who want to learn without being a job slot waste or people who want to work less and have less responsibilities
turn the other half into tourists with no access for people first joining and people who want to fuck around and then suicide if they are bored
Now this is an interesting idea. You could do this pretty easily with the existing sec officer code as well: Give assistants the option to choose an assigned department, give them an armband and encryption chip. Give them basic access as desired. Add configuration options for how many to allow for each department.

Mind you all this can already be done by department heads on the rare occasion you can find one and they actually know how to use their department console, but codifying this for roundstart seems like a net positive. If there's support for this idea I'd be willing to look at adding it.
User avatar
Cobby
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
Github Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by Cobby » #573593

tlat is calling them tourists so they arent protected under crewsimov/corporate , which is based as hell.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
User avatar
Flatulent
Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:36 am
Byond Username: FlatulentIndustrialist
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by Flatulent » #573600

imagine caring about ai protection
if you’re reading this please kindly suck my nuts
Mothblocks, winter 2021, “successfully” preventing bagil death with relevant data wrote:You seem to be under the fallacy that reinforcing that Bagil is a TDM shithole where you must carry bolas and spears on you at all times, while looking for the next valid to hunt down is a positive change to the server. I don't. The data suggests other people don't.
imsxz wrote:I give up there’s too many furries
cacogen wrote:i asked oranges how often he plays and he deleted the post
cybersaber101 wrote:Welp, you guys let a terrymin become a headmin, thousand years of darkness.
Vekter wrote:I jerk off Nist a bit too much but he's honestly one of the best silicon players on the server. B.O.R.G.O. is also pretty good.
ATHATH
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:41 am
Byond Username: ATHATH

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by ATHATH » #573718

Now that vatgrowing/swabbing exists as an actual productive purpose for exploring maintenance, has anyone's stance on this issue changed?
User avatar
Armhulen
Global Moderator
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:30 pm
Byond Username: Armhulenn
Github Username: bazelart

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by Armhulen » #573750

ATHATH wrote:Now that vatgrowing/swabbing exists as an actual productive purpose for exploring maintenance, has anyone's stance on this issue changed?
slightly more willing to let them keep it. I pay assistants cash to swab for me.
Image Image Image
User avatar
wesoda25
In-Game Admin Trainer
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:32 pm
Byond Username: Wesoda25

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by wesoda25 » #573755

More work for the HOP
Image
User avatar
XDTM
Github User
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:38 pm
Byond Username: XDTM
Github Username: XDTM
Location: XDTM

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by XDTM » #573766

It's worth noting that removing maint access from assistants will make maintenance a bit safer for anyone looking for secrecy.

Even if there can still be prowling security, engineers, or people who simply hack in, this change would definitely reduce the random wanderers who could spot someone in the process of dragging a body, building a secret base, or trying to enter the backdoor of some department. It would help anyone looking to skulk in the shadows, including the 'professional assistants', who can hack the doors to get around anyway.
a.k.a. Duke Hayka

Coder of golems, virology, hallucinations, traumas, nanites, and a bunch of miscellaneous stuff.
User avatar
Coconutwarrior97
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:14 am
Byond Username: Coconutwarrior97

Re: Disable assistant maintenance access

Post by Coconutwarrior97 » #576938

We have no desire to disable maintenance access for assistants at this time.

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Yes.
Domitius: Yes.
Naloac: Yes.
Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Tearling