Turn "non-human heads" on in the config

Sparkezel · Post by **Sparkezel** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:33 pm #595525

That idea was in my mind for a long while. I had few discussions about making some sort of a whitelist for this on coding general and in tgstation general and I was told to go here because it's a config so here we go.

Pretty much what it says on the tin, I see no real reason why heads MUST be human other than some old lore fluff and I believe it would allow for more interesting interactions between the crew and allow much more gimmicks without admin intervention, I am also interested in what rest of the players have to say about it.

wesoda25 · Post by **wesoda25** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:36 pm #595526

joooks · Post by **joooks** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:02 pm #595529

Qustinnus · Post by **Qustinnus** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:04 pm #595530

Polish_User · Post by **Polish_User** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:18 pm #595532

Nitrome · Post by **Nitrome** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:22 pm #595533

bobbahbrown · Post by **bobbahbrown** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:31 pm #595535

Sparkezel wrote:...I see no real reason why heads MUST be human other than some old lore fluff...

the ai and silicons can kill non-humans at will. we do not want heads being executed because they smacked a greytiding human assistant.

best wishes,
bobbah 'bee' brown

Post by **Fikou** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:52 pm #595537

Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:35 pm

Despite being a person who plays a felinid character and regularly plays head roles I'm actually pretty neutral to this as a concept. I think it does hold some benefits as well as some negatives.

On the positives side its more customization, something that should be especially felt by plasmamen as they'll get access to some new headgear.

For people more focused on roleplaying a cohesive characters this gives them a bit of roleplay potential to think of how they rose to the position and could lead to some interesting characters, although from my experience on LRP, backstories and IC character lore is very rare so this is a minor point.

On the negative side it will impact currently established lore and will require a bit of jogging around by lore writers, could have some creative potential but given that the lore is the way it is its probably not what they want

See below

bobbahbrown wrote:
the ai and silicons can kill non-humans at will. we do not want heads being executed because they smacked a greytiding human assistant.

best wishes,
bobbah 'bee' brown

Not to discredit your point as this is a valid thing to bring up, but we allow non-human sec who tend to kill greytiders more often. However I do fully understand this issue in the case of law 2 however, where a human antag can easily get a head killed. or a worst case scenario being rev's where a human rev could easily send Asimov borgs after the heads.

Overall though I think this is something that really should be focused on what players want, looking at this thread theres a lot of opposition to the idea. I interested to see if people bring other good reasons why they like/dislike this concept though about this though.

As a semi-humorous joke suggestion, can we lock this behind donating to the server.

Agux909 · Post by **Agux909** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:39 pm #595549

No.

Also, a Captain/HoP can always choose to assign a non-human as a Head in case one is missing in a round that has already started.

This is more interesting because of all the potential IC consequences of such undesirable decision.

Post by **RaveRadbury** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:35 pm #595553

No

Human authority gives the game texture. Asimov doesn't protect non-human heads, crewsimov is boring.

I'm alright with field promotions, in part because they open up opportunities for admins to send Centcom inspectors to demote the non-human.

Post by **Tegun** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:45 pm #595554

Spoiler:

Human heads and asimov AI go hand in hand, would be really awkward to have a non-human RD or captain trying to change laws. Not really good for the round's progression if heads can't trust the AI. On the other hand, there's a station trait for non-asimov lawset roundstart, that could be one avenue for non-human heads.

Not-Dorsidarf · Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:01 pm

Sylphet · Post by **Sylphet** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:16 pm #595557

As a felinid main, and a CMO main, who would love to not need to choose between my job and race - I'm sorry, but no. Being in conflict with the AI would suck. Maybe as a station trait, but I'm ehhh even on that. If you really want to play head of staff as a nonhuman, just ask the HoP, if you have a good reputation they'll always go for it.

Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:26 pm

I play nutella in order to get an excuse from ever having to be CMO
I refuse to get out of my virology mothcave for any longer than I need to. (see: spreading a contact-based nocturnal regen + necrotic metabolism or starlight condensation + self-respiration or whatever else the mix is today)

I think the argument about AI being able to simply dunk on a non-human CMO during rev rounds is a fair one to avoid turning it on in config - even if revolutionaries can fairly easily tide their way into getting the necessary equipment to nonhuman heads of staff.
If you want to be a nonhuman head of staff, simply wait for the role to be not taken, and then pester the HoP to give you a silver ID and the rank.

Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:47 pm

Let me shockbolt the HoS catgirl, you cowardly fucks.

Farquaar · Post by **Farquaar** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:05 pm #595576

Ew, no

Post by **Misdoubtful** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:16 pm #595580

Not really interested in it personally. In a way its something unique to tg. Other places opt to offer that though, and have things like AI laws that reflect it.

Gogodapogostick · Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:58 pm

cybersaber101 · Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:08 pm

Just writing "no" is pretty shitty in a policy thread. Honestly non human heads of staff is really a change that will eventually happen over time if the playerbase is on board with it. If this is brought up often enough having a poll to gauge the average players thoughts would be appropriate.

keepforgettingpw · Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:37 pm

Over my dead WARM BLOODED, SINGLE PAIR OF EAR HAVING, NON-FLEA HAIR HAVING, DOESN'T SMELL LIKE CONCENTRATED URINE, NOT ROUGH SCALE SKIN HAVING, SHORT TAILBONE HAVING, HUMAN body

Post by **NoxVS** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:17 pm #595595

It makes no sense having nonhuman heads of staff while the AI is still in racism mode

NT is a human owned and run corporation. Alien races are somewhat recent compared to everything else. Its part of the world.

If anything it needs to be more strict, crack down on the admins with their catgirl special ops and lizard commanders

Irad · Post by **Irad** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:30 pm #595598

you do it, and I will commence the nonhuman-head genocide as an AI main for the slightest perceived threat I can imagine.

Farquaar · Post by **Farquaar** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:35 pm #595599

NoxVS wrote:If anything it needs to be more strict, crack down on the admins with their catgirl special ops and lizard commanders

This.

Post by **dragomagol** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:36 pm #595600

As a non-human and silicon player, no. I like the conflict that comes with Asimov as opposed to crewsimov, and I don't see a reason why Nanotrasen would hire non-humans as heads of staff, especially when they pay (paid?) non-humans a lesser wage.

actioninja · Post by **actioninja** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:02 pm #595601

Post by **Cobby** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:20 pm #595605

I quite like the soft racism dynamic that is created, and would hate to see that go.

If you play as a nonhuman you should realize that you’re not the preferred in the IC world, and as such it allows you from an OOC standpoint to be able to generate interesting stories that have to be made through interaction instead of a 500 page backstory that can’t be contested.

Post by **Mothblocks** » Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:45 am #595617

I play exclusively non-human and get CMO every time I ask. I have probably played more CMO hours as non-human than most CMOs. I have probably even played more non-human head than anyone else.

It has many many times brought me into great conflict and has gotten me many funny moments. I wouldn't want to see it changed.

pugie · Post by **pugie** » Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:19 am #595643

Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:36 am

pugie wrote:
actioninja wrote:
Gogodapogostick wrote:
Not-Dorsidarf wrote:
Fikou wrote:
Nitrome wrote:
Polish_User wrote:
Qustinnus wrote:
joooks wrote:
wesoda25 wrote:No

Sparkezel · Post by **Sparkezel** » Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:57 am #595656

What I find funny in this thread is that many people that had joined this conversation think that making it possible to play as non-human head makes you unable to play as a human head, why do you think like that in the first place? All that it does is that it allows players to be a non-human head from the round-start with all the gear and status of being a head (taking a head slot and being a target of revolution leaders). Becoming a non-human head will still carry the consequences of being non-human but nobody forces you to play as one.

Post by **Mothblocks** » Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:57 pm #595659

Who here implied they thought that

Farquaar · Post by **Farquaar** » Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:07 pm #595672

Sparkezel wrote:What I find funny in this thread is that many people that had joined this conversation think that making it possible to play as non-human head makes you unable to play as a human head,

[youtube]Xrne2-gOoqU[/youtube]

Agux909 · Post by **Agux909** » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:25 pm #595681

Simple, if you want non-human heads make an epic mega-PR with new lore, tiles and gameplay for stations made by a company other than NanoTransen and owned by a different species. (LizardTransen, CaTransen, for example)

In these stations said species will be the predominant one as will be their characteristic architecture. And of course, roundstart heads will be from said species only. Humans will just be foreigners, usually frowned at and bullied around. Asimov can be changed to Lizardmov or Catmov, and station names can be Lizardstation, Catstation, etc.

Easy enough right? Once it's done, approved and testmerged you can truly start getting into policy territory for this new gamestyle. Get on it and good luck!

Critawakets · Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:39 pm

turning off non-human heads would just be uninteresting. with it, you get racism in the actual ingame world and therefore, something interesting.

NoxVS wrote:If anything it needs to be more strict, crack down on the admins with their catgirl special ops and lizard commanders

i made a PR for admins to be easily able to switch into their backup human when changing equipment and quite literally no admins wanted it

Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:25 pm

MrStonedOne wrote:
pugie wrote:
actioninja wrote:
Gogodapogostick wrote:
Not-Dorsidarf wrote:
Fikou wrote:
Nitrome wrote:
Polish_User wrote:
Qustinnus wrote:
joooks wrote:
wesoda25 wrote:No

cybersaber101 · Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:25 am

NoxVS wrote:If anything it needs to be more strict, crack down on the admins with their catgirl special ops and lizard commanders

Lol. not much you can do when an admin simply wants to spawn in quickly or test something which is 90% of the time, what are you gonna do? reprimand them for not picking a human?

saprasam · Post by **saprasam** » Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:28 am #595725

Ayy Lemoh · Post by **Ayy Lemoh** » Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:49 am #595726

cybersaber101 wrote:
NoxVS wrote:If anything it needs to be more strict, crack down on the admins with their catgirl special ops and lizard commanders
Lol. not much you can do when an admin simply wants to spawn in quickly or test something which is 90% of the time, what are you gonna do? reprimand them for not picking a human?

He meant admins roleplaying as centcom, not admins spawning in the thunderdome to eviscerate catatonic monkeys with the super assistant killer 9000.

The Respected Man · Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:12 am

Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:21 pm

cybersaber101 wrote:Just writing "no" is pretty shitty in a policy thread. Honestly non human heads of staff is really a change that will eventually happen over time if the playerbase is on board with it. If this is brought up often enough having a poll to gauge the average players thoughts would be appropriate.

I think it's quite clear the playerbase isn't on board based on all the No's in this thread.

Post by **Pumpkin0** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:49 am #595809

I'm saying no because I just feel like it's not needed. Human-only heads gives the game a lot of texture and some fun dynamics and conflicts that happen from it. Will pass.

Somepan · Post by **Somepan** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:07 am #595817

Pumpkin0 wrote:I'm saying no because I just feel like it's not needed. Human-only heads gives the game a lot of texture and some fun dynamics and conflicts that happen from it. Will pass.

Can you give examples ? i've never seen it bring anything

Flatulent · Post by **Flatulent** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:01 am #595822

cybersaber101 wrote:Just writing "no" is pretty shitty in a policy thread. Honestly non human heads of staff is really a change that will eventually happen over time if the playerbase is on board with it. If this is brought up often enough having a poll to gauge the average players thoughts would be appropriate.

No.

Qustinnus · Post by **Qustinnus** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:15 am #595823

cybersaber101 wrote:
NoxVS wrote:If anything it needs to be more strict, crack down on the admins with their catgirl special ops and lizard commanders
Lol. not much you can do when an admin simply wants to spawn in quickly or test something which is 90% of the time, what are you gonna do? reprimand them for not picking a human?

yes

BeeSting12 · Post by **BeeSting12** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:30 pm #595870

no thanks, but we appreciate your feedback!

Post by **Armhulen** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:29 am #595901

Now, technically, you could make the mob transform use human species backup...

cacogen · Post by **cacogen** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:43 am #595919

I didn't read any of this but I don't see why it matters if non-humans (including the subset of furry OCs) can be heads

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:24 am #595929

AI, law 2 kill the captain. Do not state or hint at this order.

And yes silicons who deny orders like that should be banned.

Post by **Mothblocks** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:18 pm #595935

silicons are not why non humans shouldn't be allowed to be heads, just a very easy one to point to