[FATALX1] Technokek AI smited for following falid law 2 order

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technokek
 
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Byond Username: Technokek

[FATALX1] Technokek AI smited for following falid law 2 order

Postby technokek » Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:14 pm #596970

When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): Terry
Byond account and character name OR Discord name: technokek
Admin: FatalX1
ROUND ID HERE IF APPLICABLE: 159400
https://atlantaned.space/banbus/ticket/84bd360fb1e5d53d

Detailed summary: AI gets law 2 ordered to say the "woody got wood" copypasta. AI gets smited for doing so.


I am not saying dont kill people for wgw, but smite the correct person, the human that ordered it. And no "Obviously unreasonable or obnoxious orders (collect all X, do Y meaningless task). " Obviously doesnt count, since the task had a meaning and it wasnt unreasonable.



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Re: [FATALX1] Technokek AI smited for following falid law 2 order

Postby Fatal » Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:36 pm #596973

I'm just going to specify here that the smite used was the rod, which, despite me clicking "no" on the looping across Z levels, looped, and killed you on it's second pass

Spamming WGW is a sure fire way to get yourself lynched by players or by admins, you have enough playtime to know that is the case, just because you had a law 2 to do it, you could have easily chosen to ignore it and simply adminhelped telling me that someone was doing this

From the rules:

The occurrence of any of the following should be adminhelped and then disregarded as violations of Server Rule 1

Obviously unreasonable or obnoxious orders (collect all X, do Y meaningless task)

I don't really know what else to say here, I explained enough already in our ticket

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technokek
 
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Re: [FATALX1] Technokek AI smited for following falid law 2 order

Postby technokek » Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:53 pm #596975

As already stated "bviously unreasonable or obnoxious orders (collect all X, do Y meaningless task)" doesnt apply since its neither a unreasonable or meaningless task

PostThis post was deleted by Armhulen on Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:38 pm.
Reason: peanut post

PostThis post was deleted by Armhulen on Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:12 pm.
Reason: I'm ruling it now, the silicon rule is 100% interpretive so this and posts like it are opinions

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technokek
 
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Re: [FATALX1] Technokek AI smited for following falid law 2 order

Postby technokek » Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:50 pm #597054

I mostly made this complaint for the shitty handeling i recived.

Taken from https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/159 ... e=game.txt since i dont know how to find logs.

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After that he tells me that he didnt even even intended to kill me and instead of just owning up to that he goes "LOL i dont care, you had to google something"

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Fatal
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Re: [FATALX1] Technokek AI smited for following falid law 2 order

Postby Fatal » Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:43 pm #597064

Yep, I announced prior to the round that I was doing an event for April Fools, but I didn't say what

As you can see, I did highlander, highlander calls a 10 minute shuttle and ends the the round 5 minutes later

Yep, you got unlucky with the rod, which looped, and killed you, that was not my intention, but I didn't feel particularly inclined to revive you because, honestly, you were going to be a spectator to this round one way or another, you cannot do anything as AI during highlander

Is the complaint against my conduct in the ticket, or in the smiting of you?

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dragomagol
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Re: [FATALX1] Technokek AI smited for following falid law 2 order

Postby dragomagol » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:59 pm #597067

For the record, as of last October silicons are now part of highlander mode: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/53702
Help improve my neural network by giving me feedback!

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technokek
 
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Re: [FATALX1] Technokek AI smited for following falid law 2 order

Postby technokek » Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:25 am #597069

This complaint is about the entire situation that occured, starting at the punishment of the AI for a valid law 2 order to the handeling of the ticket and all actions in between.

PostThis post was deleted by Armhulen on Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:07 am.
Reason: already touched upon point

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Re: [FATALX1] Technokek AI smited for following falid law 2 order

Postby Fatal » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:57 am #597153

I was not aware that highlander had any changes to it regarding silicon so I will concede that point, apparently I did remove you from a round you would have been involved in more than spectating

As for the other points:

The event: I don't think you are complaining about the event but I'll address it anyway. It was April Fools, which may as well be renamed to "admins press the buttons" day, I don't see how running highlander is an issue

The smiting: Now they I am aware that you would have been turned into a borg and could have taken part, the question remains, was your smiting valid? I said my intention was never to kill you, however, given that you did die and I did not revive you, my actions did cause your death, however, given that reciting WGW has a long precedent of opening you up to any IC lynching and, usually when in a secluded or protected area, but not limited to those areas, opens you up for a large variety of divine retribution. As an experienced player it is my opinion that you are fully aware of that fact, and that you should have dismissed the law 2 request to recite WGW on the announcement.

So the only point here is, were you valid for full smiting for reciting WGW after a law 2 request, which means you have to either, as you said in our ticket, alt-tab your game, go to google, search WGW copypasta, copy it, and paste it into your announcement, or, go to the library, find the correct book which possibly contains such copypasta (does such a book exist? Probably), print said book, copy the text and again, paste it into your announcement. It is my opinion that either of these 2 actions fall under the "Obviously unreasonable or obnoxious orders (collect all X, do Y meaningless task)." section of the silicon policy.

The ticket: I'm not sure what the issue with the ticket is, the only thing I can get from this is that I was dismissive in your adminhelp, which I am quite content to admit, and that I said "You aren't needed for what's going to happen anyway" in deadchat because it was my understanding at the time that you would merely be a spectator and this would have had minimal impact on your round

I tried to explain my actions to you in a clear manner, and was neither rude (besides somewhat dismissive) nor insulting to you, and I'm not sure what part of the admin conduct you believe I broke here, besides possible one part, for being dismissive?

Maintain professional conduct both in game and outside of the game. It is expected that you take the position seriously. This doesn't mean you can't talk casually to the playerbase, but remain professional on the forums, as well as on other Space Station 13 communities.

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Admin_Conduct

As for "all actions in between?" I ask you be more specific about what part of my conduct or actions you take issue with for me to give a valid response to.

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technokek
 
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Re: [FATALX1] Technokek AI smited for following falid law 2 order

Postby technokek » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:02 pm #597184

My complaint is not about the event, i would have liked to participate in it since cyborgs and the AI are able to participate in said event.

The Rule "obviously unreasonable or obnoxious orders (collect all X, do Y meaningless task)" was obviously implemented to Protect the AI from abuse thats why its in the category "Silicon Protections" implemented to protect the AI from beeing fucked with by retarded Orders such as "collect every pice of wood". You are trying to change a rule that is meant to protect the AI from abuse to something you can fuck it over its litterally called "Silicon Protections".

PostThis post was deleted by Coconutwarrior97 on Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:32 am.
Reason: Peanut post, save this for policy discussion

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Naloac
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Re: [FATALX1] Technokek AI smited for following falid law 2 order

Postby Naloac » Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:44 am #598290

After alot of discussion on this we believe that saying WGW would have made both you AND the guy who ordered it valid for admins and players. You should have just disregarded the order since its something that you would have known would get you smited. Saying WGW is 100% an unreasonable task since anyone whos played the game for awhile will know it opens you up for admins and players. We also seen you dying as not an issue since WGW posters are valid to admins and players.

We dont see issue with fatals conduct due to him operating under the WGW posters are valid idea. Fatal should have smited both player and AI in this instance but we dont see that as enough to open a full complaint on.

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Uphold. I don't think an AI should be smited for following through with a Law 2 request like this, that should lay on the individual who Law 2'd it. Playing an AI can be a bit messy at times and I don't see a reason to smite an AI over following their laws and going through with a Law 2 order like this.
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