Awful Dungeon Master In Training, a Manuelmin Story Peanut

[Kendrickorium]

Bottom post of the previous page:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33374

when, when will they learn

[BeeSting12]

This is honestly such an ss13 moment, I hate that a player got banned over this. Traitor is on the edge of death, makes a nutty escape at the absolute last second. Sounds like a fun round tbh manuel mins need to stop taking everything so seriously

[Annihilite111]

I don't always agree with Vekter, but generally I've found him relatively easy to cooperate with, in personal experience. I've had cases where I erroneously murdered a few Golems because they were being Mild Shitters and had the Lavaland Golem Debuff despite being built on station, and he didn't even place a note on me for it.

In my personal experience at least, as long as you can calmly explain why you did what you did, and that you understand what you did wrong, he's relatively easy to work with.

So what causes this shit then? Is it because players are rude to him that he acts out like this at least once every few months? I've seen prior indications that he cannot handle criticism/insults (That time when he banned a bunch of players for suiciding and then shut off OOC comes to mind) and that is frankly a terrible quality for an admin to have on a server where policy explicitly expects admins to put up with that.

[Timberpoes]

Our MRP, so Manuel and Campbell, should honestly represent the purest SS13 experience.

A wonderful sandbox in which many crazy things can happen, and where player stories take priority over petty rules lawyering. If the player has a good IC reason for their actions, as long as those actions aren't wildly disproportionate to their IC reasoning it should be okay to do.

The rules on MRP, broadly speaking, discourage or prohibit doing actions "just because you can" (i.e. OOC motivations). The rules understand that performing actions based on IC interactions is the genuine lifeblood of SS13 RP.

I think this is a lesson a lot of admins that view their volunteer position as a job/obligation could do to remember.

The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.

[BONERMASTER]

I was expecting a wild story about a DnD session spiraling out of control and getting everyone banned! The Title has literally nothing to do with the ban itself except for "roleplay" like come on DUDEEE. I'm so disappointed!


With crushed regards
-BONERMASTER

its the admins job to create fun and interesting circumstances for the player, like a dungeon master would.
an admin punishing a player on a ROLE PLAY server because they did something that could be construed OUTSIDE THE BOUNDARIES OF THE GREAT AND MIGHTY MANUEL RULEBOOK, would likely make an absolutely awful dungeon master.

I hope that explains my thread title.

With explanatory regards
-KENDRICKORIUM

I am still angry!

ROLL FOR INITIATIVE! (https://tacticaltokens.com/dice-roller/)

I have 12. I'll cut you down to size!!!


With berserking regards
-BONERMASTER

[CPTANT]

Our MRP, so Manuel and Campbell, should honestly represent the purest SS13 experience.

A wonderful sandbox in which many crazy things can happen, and where player stories take priority over petty rules lawyering. If the player has a good IC reason for their actions, as long as those actions aren't wildly disproportionate to their IC reasoning it should be okay to do.

The rules on MRP, broadly speaking, discourage or prohibit doing actions "just because you can" (i.e. OOC motivations). The rules understand that performing actions based on IC interactions is the genuine lifeblood of SS13 RP.

I think this is a lesson a lot of admins that view their volunteer position as a job/obligation could do to remember.

The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.

NO, this is GRIEF. Floorplates were DAMAGED. Anyone walking through the fire might have sustained LIGHT INJURIES. Players who create minor hazards must be PUNISHED. Only the PIOUS and NON-CONFRONTATIONAL shall remain. Also Broly Butterfingers should be BANNED. He broke out to departures when he could have broke out to space, spreading the plasma, this is MURDERBONE. GLORY TO THE GREENSHIFT.

But seriously, punishing people for an action that nobody disliked (actually most seemed to like the minor hazard), that was accidental and nobody complained about is the dumbest shit ever.

I will come back in 2 months when the headmins have replied to this 4 day ban.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

I don't always agree with Vekter, but generally I've found him relatively easy to cooperate with, in personal experience. I've had cases where I erroneously murdered a few Golems because they were being Mild Shitters and had the Lavaland Golem Debuff despite being built on station, and he didn't even place a note on me for it.

In my personal experience at least, as long as you can calmly explain why you did what you did, and that you understand what you did wrong, he's relatively easy to work with.

So what causes this shit then? Is it because players are rude to him that he acts out like this at least once every few months? I've seen prior indications that he cannot handle criticism/insults (That time when he banned a bunch of players for suiciding and then shut off OOC comes to mind) and that is frankly a terrible quality for an admin to have on a server where policy explicitly expects admins to put up with that.

I'm not sure. I'm far from his biggest fan, I've criticized him before, and even argued with him openly once, when he said that any (Manuel) non-antag who makes a singularity would be week ban'd by him if it got sabotaged by an antag because "there's no reason a non-antag should do that". Which is also why I struggle to see if it could just be him not liking people who oppose him.

Closest I could see is that he doesn't really hold grudges, but gets emotional in the moment, but I don't have enough evidence to say for sure, and it's not really my place to try and psychoanalyze him. All I can say is just that if everyone was nicer to each other, we'd probably have less problems. Tickets when I've been polite and respectful I've never gotten in trouble for, but the ones when I bicker and argue and got reallllly pissed off in the past are the ones that left me with notes.

Edit: Also I agree with everything that Timberpoes said there, but I don't wanna doublepost to say it.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Our MRP, so Manuel and Campbell, should honestly represent the purest SS13 experience.

A wonderful sandbox in which many crazy things can happen, and where player stories take priority over petty rules lawyering. If the player has a good IC reason for their actions, as long as those actions aren't wildly disproportionate to their IC reasoning it should be okay to do.

The rules on MRP, broadly speaking, discourage or prohibit doing actions "just because you can" (i.e. OOC motivations). The rules understand that performing actions based on IC interactions is the genuine lifeblood of SS13 RP.

I think this is a lesson a lot of admins that view their volunteer position as a job/obligation could do to remember.

The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.

NO, this is GRIEF. Floorplates were DAMAGED. Anyone walking through the fire might have sustained LIGHT INJURIES. Players who create minor hazards must be PUNISHED. Only the PIOUS and NON-CONFRONTATIONAL shall remain. Also Broly Butterfingers should be BANNED. He broke out to departures when he could have broke out to space, spreading the plasma, this is MURDERBONE. GLORY TO THE GREENSHIFT.

But seriously, punishing people for an action that nobody disliked (actually most seemed to like the minor hazard), that was accidental and nobody complained about is the dumbest shit ever.

I will come back in 2 months when the headmins have replied to this 4 day ban.

It will be six months. They'll have to get the headmin triumvirate who were in charge at the time of the ban to come back and rule on it.

[vect0r]

Yeah I decided to be like "fuck this" and I went though every rule they COULD have broken, what I found:
They didn't break any rules. I know we know this, but I want to see how they do justify what rule they broke.

[Timberpoes]

I had to unfortunately delete it because it kinda took the piss of peanut policy, but you made your point via the peanut so you still remain winning.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

If no rules were broken it's not possible to use the peanut-post exemption for presenting relevant rules, i guess

[vect0r]

I had to unfortunately delete it because it kinda took the piss of peanut policy, but you made your point via the peanut so you still remain winning.

If ya could, could you re post it here? I only saved it when I was halfway done with it, and I would still like people to be able to see it, as I think it could be helpful.
Also sorry for breaking peanut policy!

[Timberpoes]

I had to unfortunately delete it because it kinda took the piss of peanut policy, but you made your point via the peanut so you still remain winning.

If ya could, could you re post it here? I only saved it when I was halfway done with it, and I would still like people to be able to see it, as I think it could be helpful.
Also sorry for breaking peanut policy!

Code: Select all

Here, for reference, is every rule that Maia [b]could[/b] have broken:
here are the [url=https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#RP_Rule_2_Precedents]rules[/url].
[size=200]MAIN RULES[/size]

[size=150]1. Don't be a dick:[/size]
[spoil]
[quote]We're all here to have a good time, supposedly. Going out of your way to seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone with little IC justification is against the rules, this also includes harassing a player OOC (Out of character). Legitimate conflicts where people get upset do happen however, as detailed in the escalation section of the rules. [/quote]
This is rule is applied to stop somebody from griffing other players, such as when you beat somebody to crit FNR, and is also the basis for the famous "one day per dead" rule that is applied in a lot of ban appeals. Those are not the [url=https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#Rule_1_Precedents]only[/url] use for it, and it is applied when you have negatively impacted somebodies shift, and just as a blanket "quality control" type ban.
[/spoil]
[size=150]Do not use information gained outside of in-character means:[/size]
[spoil]
[quote]I.e. metagaming. This especially refers to communication between players outside of the game via things like Discord, known as metacomms. Characters are otherwise allowed to know everything about ingame mechanics or antagonists, as well as keep persistent friendships or relationships with other characters when not for the purpose of unfair advantage by teaming up together for little IC reason. [/quote]
IE metagaming, this rule is meant to stop me from calling up Maia and saying "butterfingers is in west maints, just killed me, ling with desword". The only things that doesn't involve voice calls are the precedents [quote]1.) Similar to how characters are allowed to know everything about in-game mechanics or antagonists under rule 2, characters are allowed to have persistent knowledge/relationships/friendships with the caveat that knowledge of a character being an antagonist from a previous round is not used.
2.) Character friendships should not be exploitative in nature or be used to gain an unfair advantage. Having an IC friendship with another player does not, for example, justify giving them all-access each round.[/quote] Those are about metaing info from different shifts to give somebody a IC advantage. The last rule is stopping a malf AI BEFORE you know it is malf or shiftstart:
[quote]Atmos techs are not allowed to edit atmos at roundstart so that the AI cannot use it for malicious purposes. While this might not make sense IC, it's a necessary OOC precedent for some game mechanics to work. Atmos techs are allowed if they have any reasonable suspicion of the AI being rogue.[/quote]   [/spoil]
[size=150]3. Do not say in character (IC) things in the out of character (OOC) chat channel.[/size]
[spoil][quote]Do not say OOC things in IC either. There is an exception for OOC in IC where terms like 'clickdrag X to Y, or look for the tab' is used to help a player. [/quote]N/A, at least I hope so[/spoil]
[size=150]4. Lone antagonists can do whatever they want:[/size]
[spoil][quote]Except metagaming/comms, bug/exploit abuse, erotic/creepy stuff, OOC in IC or IC in OOC, and spawn-camping arrivals. Team antagonists can do whatever they want as per lone antagonists, as long as it doesn’t harm their team. Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists as per lone antagonists, but non-antagonists are not allowed to pre-emptively search for, hinder or otherwise seek conflict with antagonists without reasonable prior cause. Non-antags acting like an antag can be treated as an antag. [/quote]
The relevant part of this rule is how non-antagonists can do whatever they want to a antag as if they were a lone antag, such as burning them in a burn chamber. The ban was not placed because they burned the traitor to death, but because the plasma got out, and did damage to departures, and maybe hurt/kiledl somebody (I have not logdived yet) [/spoil]
[size=150]5. Players in a head of staff, AI/Silicon role, or a team conversion role require a minimum amount of effort; generally considered to be not logging out at or near roundstart: [/size]
[spoil]N/A, as the shuttle was coming, so it was not roundstart.[/spoil]
[size=150]6. In-game administration rulings are final. [/size]
[spoil][quote]Incidences of admin abuse, negligence or disputed rulings can be taken to the forums. If an admin says something was 'looked into, handled, resolved' etc, regarding an issue, it is unlikely an admin will provide any further information. Admins are under no obligation to reveal IC information. Deliberately lying or misrepresenting facts in adminhelps will be dealt with harshly. [/quote]
N/A, Maia got banned, and took it to forums[/spoil]
[size=150]7. If you regularly come close to breaking the rules without actually breaking them, it will be treated as the rules being broken. [/size]
[spoil][quote]Repeated instances of the same rules being broken may be met with harsher consequences. Baiting people into situations where you can report them to admins will be dealt with harshly. [/quote]The more you break a rule, the more you get banned for it, moving up to a perma if you do it enough. I cannot see maia's not history, so I cannot comment on this. [/spoil]
[size=150]8. Erotic/creepy stuff is not allowed: [/size]
[spoil][quote]No form of erotic roleplay is allowed on the servers, including things that could be construed as sexual by unwilling participants. [/quote]
N/A, unless you think that burning somebody to death is kinky and/or ERP.[/spoil]
[size=150]9. Players need to be the age of 18 or above: [/size]
[spoil][quote]This rule is for the benefit of and is meant to protect people who shouldn't be playing here due to the nature of the SS13 community. Your age won't be hunted down, but if you admit it to us in admin PMs, or other places within the /tg/Station13 community (the official Discord server, forums, OOC chat, etc.), you're getting banned. [/quote]True shit[/spoil]
[size=150]10. Losing is part of the game. [/size]
[spoil][quote]Your character will frequently die, sometimes without even a possibility of avoiding it. Events will often be out of your control. No matter how good or prepared you are, sometimes you just lose. [/quote]This rule is to get people to not ahelp over being owned for a random reason, and so the admin can go "rule 10 mate"[/spoil]
[size=150]11. Bigotry is not allowed:[/size]
[spoil][quote]Intentionally seeking to demean others due to their actual or perceived race, sex, gender, disability, orientation or the like is not tolerated. It is not our goal to create or enforce a list of banned words and instead our goal to eject the expression of bigotry from the community. Enforcement will be less PC based and more common sense based with that goal in mind.

This means rather than warning or banning for quoting a usage such as "Griff McNazi got banned for calling somebody a faggot" or even things like "nigga pls" and "what are you faggots playing" which are generally not statements made to be bigoted, we'll focus more on statements like "you talk like a [insert stereotype]" or "x is a [insert slur]". [/quote]N/A[/spoil]
[size=150]12. This is a sandbox roleplaying game:[/size]
[spoil][quote]The purpose of the game is to have fun roleplaying. Play-to-win gameplay that ruins the purpose of the game at the expense of others is against the rules. [/quote]This is a sandbox roleplaying game... I would go more in depth, but that would enter peanut zone. This purpose of this rule is to stop people from being P2W, and not from powergaming, but from [size=150]powergaming[/size] every single shift[/spoil]

[size=200]ROLEPLAY RULES[/size]
[size=150]2. Escalation and roleplay:[/size]
[spoil][quote]Going out of your way to seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone with little to no justification is against the rules. Legitimate conflicts where people get upset do happen; however, these conflicts should escalate properly, and retribution must be proportionate. For example, this means you shouldn’t immediately escalate to murder when someone refuses to leave a certain area or give back something they stole. [/quote]
Don't murder somebody because they slipped you, or stole your ID. [/spoil]
[size=150]3. Chain of command and security are important:[/size]
[spoil][quote]The head of your department is your boss and they can fire you; security officers can arrest you for stealing or breaking into places. Unless they're doing something unreasonable, such as spacing you for spraying graffiti on the walls, you shouldn't freak out over being punished for doing something that would get you fired or arrested in real life. This also means that if you're in the chain of command, and especially if you're in Security, you're expected to put in some effort and do your job. [/quote]N/A lol like this ever worked[/spoil]
[size=150]4. If you are not part of the security team, you should not go out of your way to hunt for potential antagonists:[/size]
[spoil][quote]You can defend yourself and others from violent antagonists, but you should not act like a vigilante if a security force is present. The exception to this rule is when antagonists clearly represent a global or round-ending threat to everyone on board the station - for example, a blob, nuclear operatives or cults with halos. Non-security players can take full action against such threats. [/quote]Don't be a staffie and get a stunprod, then explore maints all shift looking for antags cause "why not". If somebody tries to murder you, you can hurt/murder them back[/spoil]
[size=150]5. Antagonism, murderboning, and roleplaying as an antagonist:[/size]
[spoil][quote]You're an antag, great! Try your best to play the role to drive the round forward, inserting conflict into the round is important. Your actions should make the game more fun, more exciting and more enjoyable for everyone (Though some people will just lose, and that’s part of the game.) [/quote]N/A, this is about a non-antag going for a antag, not the other way around.[/spoil]
[size=150]6. Deal with the bad guys in proportion to their crime(s):[/size]
[spoil][quote]When dealing with antagonists deal with them proportionally to their crime(s). Someone who stole the captain's medal shouldn't be immediately lasered to death, but lethal injecting someone who has killed four people is understandable. If an antagonist shows a willingness to engage with you, do your best to reciprocate it, though leniency as to their punishment is still in your court. [/quote]Don't execute somebody because they put up a funny poster. This does not mean if a murderer tries to murder you, you cannot murder them back[/spoil]
[size=150]7. Do not spam in either OOC channels or IC channels. [/size]
[spoil][quote]This applies to both typical spam and reading porn or copypastas (like WGW). In the latter case, even one instance of reading it once in-game is against the rules. [/quote]Don't read porn in MY plasmaflood... N/A[/spoil]
[size=150]8. Don’t use OOC information or knowledge that your character would not reasonably be aware of just to give yourself an advantage. [/size]
[spoil][quote]Do not powergame. Powergaming is gearing up or preparing in other ways to face an issue that is not related to your job and is not currently a credible threat. Someone going missing on the station, and then you making a stunprod to wield whenever you go into maint is powergaming. However; knowing there have been murders occurring across the station, and grabbing a stunprod while you go to fix wires in maint is fine. [/quote]The example is a good one; don't gear up with everything under the sun to stop yourself from being owned by a antag.[/spoil]
[size=150]9. Play as a coherent, believable character. [/size]
[spoil][quote]Real life realism is not required, and you are encouraged to be a little silly within the context of the SS13 game world. (Clowning around, people spontaneously exploding and creating ridiculously elaborate machinery are all non-serious things but yet a vital part of the game world.) There's a good chance your character still wants to have a job at the end of the day, so you should probably act like it. [/quote]I AM JERRY NAZI HEIL HITLER!!!!!!!!!! that is not allowed, ofc. Also, don't randomly punch people, don't do shit because "LOL I CAN". Do stuff because your spess man wants to, not because you do[/spoil]
[size=150]10. Stay in your lane. [/size]
[spoil][quote]Stay in your lane. This means that you should do the job you signed up for and not try and do other people’s jobs for them. If you need something from another player you should attempt to ask them to get it for you instead of just taking it. If there is no one around to do a job or you get permission to help or grab something it is acceptable to stray from your lane. [/quote]Don't be a sci validhunter. Don't be a sec paramedic, etc. BUT if nobody is around, then you are allowed to do said job... also [b]I[/b] think this is a N/A[/spoil]
Thanks for coming to my ted talk

Feel free to complete it here.

[vect0r]

Thanks timber! This is in fact it!
Here is what I pointed into the ban appeal, turns out it was a peanut so here it is!


Here, for reference, is every rule that Maia could have broken:
here are the rules.
MAIN RULES

1. Don't be a dick:

► Show Spoiler

We're all here to have a good time, supposedly. Going out of your way to seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone with little IC justification is against the rules, this also includes harassing a player OOC (Out of character). Legitimate conflicts where people get upset do happen however, as detailed in the escalation section of the rules.

This is rule is applied to stop somebody from griffing other players, such as when you beat somebody to crit FNR, and is also the basis for the famous "one day per dead" rule that is applied in a lot of ban appeals. Those are not the only use for it, and it is applied when you have negatively impacted somebodies shift, and just as a blanket "quality control" type ban.

Do not use information gained outside of in-character means:

► Show Spoiler

I.e. metagaming. This especially refers to communication between players outside of the game via things like Discord, known as metacomms. Characters are otherwise allowed to know everything about ingame mechanics or antagonists, as well as keep persistent friendships or relationships with other characters when not for the purpose of unfair advantage by teaming up together for little IC reason.

IE metagaming, this rule is meant to stop me from calling up Maia and saying "butterfingers is in west maints, just killed me, ling with desword". The only things that doesn't involve voice calls are the precedents

1.) Similar to how characters are allowed to know everything about in-game mechanics or antagonists under rule 2, characters are allowed to have persistent knowledge/relationships/friendships with the caveat that knowledge of a character being an antagonist from a previous round is not used.
2.) Character friendships should not be exploitative in nature or be used to gain an unfair advantage. Having an IC friendship with another player does not, for example, justify giving them all-access each round.

Those are about metaing info from different shifts to give somebody a IC advantage. The last rule is stopping a malf AI BEFORE you know it is malf or shiftstart:

Atmos techs are not allowed to edit atmos at roundstart so that the AI cannot use it for malicious purposes. While this might not make sense IC, it's a necessary OOC precedent for some game mechanics to work. Atmos techs are allowed if they have any reasonable suspicion of the AI being rogue.

3. Do not say in character (IC) things in the out of character (OOC) chat channel.

► Show Spoiler

Do not say OOC things in IC either. There is an exception for OOC in IC where terms like 'clickdrag X to Y, or look for the tab' is used to help a player.

N/A, at least I hope so

4. Lone antagonists can do whatever they want:

► Show Spoiler

Except metagaming/comms, bug/exploit abuse, erotic/creepy stuff, OOC in IC or IC in OOC, and spawn-camping arrivals. Team antagonists can do whatever they want as per lone antagonists, as long as it doesn’t harm their team. Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists as per lone antagonists, but non-antagonists are not allowed to pre-emptively search for, hinder or otherwise seek conflict with antagonists without reasonable prior cause. Non-antags acting like an antag can be treated as an antag.

The relevant part of this rule is how non-antagonists can do whatever they want to a antag as if they were a lone antag, such as burning them in a burn chamber. The ban was not placed because they burned the traitor to death, but because the plasma got out, and did damage to departures, and maybe hurt/kiledl somebody (I have not logdived yet)

5. Players in a head of staff, AI/Silicon role, or a team conversion role require a minimum amount of effort; generally considered to be not logging out at or near roundstart:

► Show Spoiler

N/A, as the shuttle was coming, so it was not roundstart.

6. In-game administration rulings are final.

► Show Spoiler

Incidences of admin abuse, negligence or disputed rulings can be taken to the forums. If an admin says something was 'looked into, handled, resolved' etc, regarding an issue, it is unlikely an admin will provide any further information. Admins are under no obligation to reveal IC information. Deliberately lying or misrepresenting facts in adminhelps will be dealt with harshly.

N/A, Maia got banned, and took it to forums

7. If you regularly come close to breaking the rules without actually breaking them, it will be treated as the rules being broken.

► Show Spoiler

Repeated instances of the same rules being broken may be met with harsher consequences. Baiting people into situations where you can report them to admins will be dealt with harshly.

The more you break a rule, the more you get banned for it, moving up to a perma if you do it enough. I cannot see maia's not history, so I cannot comment on this.

8. Erotic/creepy stuff is not allowed:

► Show Spoiler

No form of erotic roleplay is allowed on the servers, including things that could be construed as sexual by unwilling participants.

N/A, unless you think that burning somebody to death is kinky and/or ERP.

9. Players need to be the age of 18 or above:

► Show Spoiler

This rule is for the benefit of and is meant to protect people who shouldn't be playing here due to the nature of the SS13 community. Your age won't be hunted down, but if you admit it to us in admin PMs, or other places within the /tg/Station13 community (the official Discord server, forums, OOC chat, etc.), you're getting banned.

True shit

10. Losing is part of the game.

► Show Spoiler

Your character will frequently die, sometimes without even a possibility of avoiding it. Events will often be out of your control. No matter how good or prepared you are, sometimes you just lose.

This rule is to get people to not ahelp over being owned for a random reason, and so the admin can go "rule 10 mate"

11. Bigotry is not allowed:

► Show Spoiler

Intentionally seeking to demean others due to their actual or perceived race, sex, gender, disability, orientation or the like is not tolerated. It is not our goal to create or enforce a list of banned words and instead our goal to eject the expression of bigotry from the community. Enforcement will be less PC based and more common sense based with that goal in mind.

This means rather than warning or banning for quoting a usage such as "Griff McNazi got banned for calling somebody a faggot" or even things like "nigga pls" and "what are you faggots playing" which are generally not statements made to be bigoted, we'll focus more on statements like "you talk like a [insert stereotype]" or "x is a [insert slur]".

N/A

12. This is a sandbox roleplaying game:

► Show Spoiler

The purpose of the game is to have fun roleplaying. Play-to-win gameplay that ruins the purpose of the game at the expense of others is against the rules.

This is a sandbox roleplaying game... I would go more in depth, but that would enter peanut zone. This purpose of this rule is to stop people from being P2W, and not from powergaming, but from powergaming every single shift

ROLEPLAY RULES
2. Escalation and roleplay:

► Show Spoiler

Going out of your way to seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone with little to no justification is against the rules. Legitimate conflicts where people get upset do happen; however, these conflicts should escalate properly, and retribution must be proportionate. For example, this means you shouldn’t immediately escalate to murder when someone refuses to leave a certain area or give back something they stole.

Don't murder somebody because they slipped you, or stole your ID.

3. Chain of command and security are important:

► Show Spoiler

The head of your department is your boss and they can fire you; security officers can arrest you for stealing or breaking into places. Unless they're doing something unreasonable, such as spacing you for spraying graffiti on the walls, you shouldn't freak out over being punished for doing something that would get you fired or arrested in real life. This also means that if you're in the chain of command, and especially if you're in Security, you're expected to put in some effort and do your job.

N/A lol like this ever worked

4. If you are not part of the security team, you should not go out of your way to hunt for potential antagonists:

► Show Spoiler

You can defend yourself and others from violent antagonists, but you should not act like a vigilante if a security force is present. The exception to this rule is when antagonists clearly represent a global or round-ending threat to everyone on board the station - for example, a blob, nuclear operatives or cults with halos. Non-security players can take full action against such threats.

Don't be a staffie and get a stunprod, then explore maints all shift looking for antags cause "why not". If somebody tries to murder you, you can hurt/murder them back

5. Antagonism, murderboning, and roleplaying as an antagonist:

► Show Spoiler

You're an antag, great! Try your best to play the role to drive the round forward, inserting conflict into the round is important. Your actions should make the game more fun, more exciting and more enjoyable for everyone (Though some people will just lose, and that’s part of the game.)

N/A, this is about a non-antag going for a antag, not the other way around.

6. Deal with the bad guys in proportion to their crime(s):

► Show Spoiler

When dealing with antagonists deal with them proportionally to their crime(s). Someone who stole the captain's medal shouldn't be immediately lasered to death, but lethal injecting someone who has killed four people is understandable. If an antagonist shows a willingness to engage with you, do your best to reciprocate it, though leniency as to their punishment is still in your court.

Don't execute somebody because they put up a funny poster. This does not mean if a murderer tries to murder you, you cannot murder them back

7. Do not spam in either OOC channels or IC channels.

► Show Spoiler

This applies to both typical spam and reading porn or copypastas (like WGW). In the latter case, even one instance of reading it once in-game is against the rules.

Don't read porn in MY plasmaflood... N/A

8. Don’t use OOC information or knowledge that your character would not reasonably be aware of just to give yourself an advantage.

► Show Spoiler

Do not powergame. Powergaming is gearing up or preparing in other ways to face an issue that is not related to your job and is not currently a credible threat. Someone going missing on the station, and then you making a stunprod to wield whenever you go into maint is powergaming. However; knowing there have been murders occurring across the station, and grabbing a stunprod while you go to fix wires in maint is fine.

The example is a good one; don't gear up with everything under the sun to stop yourself from being owned by a antag.

9. Play as a coherent, believable character.

► Show Spoiler

Real life realism is not required, and you are encouraged to be a little silly within the context of the SS13 game world. (Clowning around, people spontaneously exploding and creating ridiculously elaborate machinery are all non-serious things but yet a vital part of the game world.) There's a good chance your character still wants to have a job at the end of the day, so you should probably act like it.

I AM JERRY NAZI HEIL HITLER!!!!!!!!!! that is not allowed, ofc. Also, don't randomly punch people, don't do shit because "LOL I CAN". Do stuff because your spess man wants to, not because you do

10. Stay in your lane.

► Show Spoiler

Stay in your lane. This means that you should do the job you signed up for and not try and do other people’s jobs for them. If you need something from another player you should attempt to ask them to get it for you instead of just taking it. If there is no one around to do a job or you get permission to help or grab something it is acceptable to stray from your lane.

Don't be a sci validhunter. Don't be a sec paramedic, etc. BUT if nobody is around, then you are allowed to do said job... also I think this is a N/A

Thanks for coming to my ted talk

[EmpressMaia]

I'm going to ultrakill someone

[RedBaronFlyer]

I'm going to ultrakill someone

In Minecraft?

[BrolyButterfingers]

This ban SUPER frustrates me because I, as an antag, intentionally deconstructed into departures in order to spread the plasma. I had a hardsuit and internals, I could have deconstructed to the right and into space. If I had known it would get another player in trouble, that's what I would have done, even as antag, and in the future I just likely won't sabotage peoples' shit as antag because I don't want to get them in trouble.

This ruling has a chilling effect on antag behaviour, and that's not even a theoretical because if this ban stands I already know it's had an effect on how I choose to play traitor in the future.

[conrad]

None of this would've happened if we removed atmos.

[Shellton(Mario)]

None of this would've happened if we removed atmos.

None of this would had happened if we removed admins and become a lawless wasteland where the players decide the rules.

[datorangebottle]

you know... i think i'll put iwishforducks lower on my vote now.

if we remove manuel, the manuelmins will have to actively admin on other servers, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

[EmpressMaia]

headmins are taking forever to respond. so ig it will prob be denied. the precedent this sets is very sad

[iwishforducks]

you know... i think i'll put iwishforducks lower on my vote now.

if we remove manuel, the manuelmins will have to actively admin on other servers, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

what makes you think i wouldn't be making sure admins in general aren't fucking shit up?

[Sightld2]

headmins are taking forever to respond. so ig it will prob be denied. the precedent this sets is very sad

It's been a day sis. Sometimes they take a while.

[EmpressMaia]

headmins are taking forever to respond. so ig it will prob be denied. the precedent this sets is very sad

It's been a day sis. Sometimes they take a while.

ADHD makes it feel like an eternity

[Timberpoes]

All I can say is I will be highly dissatisfied if the ban or note remain, and I think this is perhaps one of the times the headmin team could expedite a ruling if they had any will to remove the ban.

There is little satisfaction to be gained from being proven right after having sit out the full term of an undeserved ban.

Disregard the above if the headmins think it's a valid ban in any way, but I think that would a poor ruling. This really wouldn't have even registered on my admin radar from what has been revealed in the appeal. I think this is a very, very strong IC issue, there was a definite IC grounding, the antag claims they intentionally took the path of most chaos in breaking out (highly based if true, and very MRP-friendly) and it's cool to see antags and players interacting in different ways on MRP. On LRP they'd've just been toolboxed to death and beheaded or something.

[BrolyButterfingers]

All I can say is I will be highly dissatisfied if the ban or note remain, and I think this is perhaps one of the times the headmin team could expedite a ruling if they had any will to remove the ban.

There is little satisfaction to be gained from being proven right after having sit out the full term of an undeserved ban.

Disregard the above if the headmins think it's a valid ban in any way, but I think that would a poor ruling. This really wouldn't have even registered on my admin radar from what has been revealed in the appeal. I think this is a very, very strong IC issue, there was a definite IC grounding, the antag claims they intentionally took the path of most chaos in breaking out (highly based if true, and very MRP-friendly) and it's cool to see antags and players interacting in different ways on MRP. On LRP they'd've just been toolboxed to death and beheaded or something.

I absolutely intentionally picked deconstructing into the lobby vs deconstructing into space because I was an antagonist.

[Timberpoes]

I have to pick my language carefully incase some smart asshole comes along with a bunch of log entries proving you didn't intentionally do the thing you said you intentionally did.

Being wrong on the Internet is a cardinal sin, so I edge my bets by never committing to anything without a get-out clause.

[TheBibleMelts]

Player created a fun SS13 moment and got absolutely demolished over it. Hate to see it.

[BrolyButterfingers]

I have to pick my language carefully incase some smart asshole comes along with a bunch of log entries proving you didn't intentionally do the thing you said you intentionally did.

Being wrong on the Internet is a cardinal sin, so I edge my bets by never committing to anything without a get-out clause.

It's HEDGE your bets. You have been owned.

[Timberpoes]

Valentine's Day.

[EmpressMaia]

Valentine's Day.

<3

[datorangebottle]

you know... i think i'll put iwishforducks lower on my vote now.

if we remove manuel, the manuelmins will have to actively admin on other servers, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

what makes you think i wouldn't be making sure admins in general aren't fucking shit up?

The part where you wouldn't be the only headmin kinda puts a stick in the gears. I know you're trying to defend yourself here, but I was trying to make a joke about it, not making a serious suggestion about my voting this year.

[kayozz]

If so, that is uncool in my book and ruins the spirit of the game.

Fuck the spirit of the game.


With unruly regards
-BONERMASTER

Agreed.

[saprasam]

looking at this ban and it's still hot garbage and sets a horrible precedent for public projects & the joy of what happens when they go wrong

[BrolyButterfingers]

Yeah if this doesn't get a headmin review I'm gonna be super sad about the future of Manuel

[cybersaber101]

Makes me wonder if some of this started during early manuel admining when many admins were unsure of what was the right call unless they were familiar with the new MRP rules so more often then not you'd discuss it with another MRP admin who was probably adminning with you.

[NecromancerAnne]

Makes me wonder if some of this started during early manuel admining when many admins were unsure of what was the right call unless they were familiar with the new MRP rules so more often then not you'd discuss it with another MRP admin who was probably adminning with you.

This happens on every server, with every admin, and not something unique to just MRP. Why would you not talk with your immediate co-admin about the situation, they're the most accessible person after all. But I would strongly suggest that potentially there was some carry over from early attempts to downplay more aggressive play on the server that people were carrying over from the older servers, in the hopes of encouraging more longform gimmicks and flashier gameplay and downplay mass murder.

Somewhere, this didn't end up being phased out, and likely as new admins were being drawn in from the new population, they carried with them these same expectations, especially with the rules being under construction at the time.

[kayozz]

Isn't the whole 'thing' about SS13 is that 'things can go wrong at any time'? Even if he/she did fuck up by proxy, a 4 day ban for something that barely hurt anyone (and was quite creative) and the smug responses by said admin in the thread just reeks of power-tripping and discouraging anything interesting. Shall we all just stick to our departments, not fight back against antagonists and play a risk-free game?
Even building a death chamber suggests the player was RP'ing and interacting with the round, being creative and using the tools the game provides, and not ignoring the fact that you should be allowed to punish antags if they've spent the round harassing you.
Things go wrong in-game, that's half the fun, sometimes the SM delams, sometimes Security are over-zealous or lazy, sometimes the Virologist fucks up and accidentally releases something bad, sometimes you get caught in the cross-fire or get killed because you witnessed a changeling in maints, and as long as it was never the intent of the banned player to leak the plasma (which it doesn't seem to be) - then this should have just been a 'funny memorable moment', but nope...

[Cobby]

banned for not killing the antag in the most cookie cutter way so he managed to escape and do damage to the station using the very same method that was meant to finish him off.

very strange.

[kieth4]

Hopefully, the admin re-considers his decision and lifts it. If not, I'm sure the headmins will.

[Pandarsenic]

unless I'm really missing something this seems like a terrible ban

[dirk_mcblade]

Maia you should honestly switch to LRP before you get permaed. The manuelmins obviously have a grudge against you.

[BlueMemesauce]

We recognize that your ban was false, but we decided to ban you anyways because reasons

[Tearling]

>Gets banned for 4 days
>Appeals
>Admin doubles down
>Escalate to Headmins
>4 days pass
>Headmins agree 4 day ban bad, but keep note

Do you guys think a complaint would be upheld if Maia complained that the ban was unnecessary?

[iwishforducks]

>Gets banned for 4 days
>Appeals
>Admin doubles down
>Escalate to Headmins
>4 days pass
>Headmins agree 4 day ban bad, but keep note

Do you guys think a complaint would be upheld if Maia complained that the ban was unnecessary?

Yeah something felt off about the headmin response that I couldn’t quite put my finger on. Their reasoning is factual but the response left much to desire.

[BONERMASTER]

No, Maia should just wait for the next term and try their luck with the new trio.
And don't forget to file another appeal for the note as well.


With direct regards
-BONERMASTER

[EmpressMaia]

Maia you should honestly switch to LRP before you get permaed. The manuelmins obviously have a grudge against you.

I'm thinking about that but I really like alot of the players on manuel

[Kendrickorium]

>Gets banned for 4 days
>Appeals
>Admin doubles down
>Escalate to Headmins
>4 days pass
>Headmins agree 4 day ban bad, but keep note

Do you guys think a complaint would be upheld if Maia complained that the ban was unnecessary?

Yeah something felt off about the headmin response that I couldn’t quite put my finger on. Their reasoning is factual but the response left much to desire.

I think it's because we've gotten used to the "Timber's Closing Thoughts" section of appeal and headmin rulings

[iwishforducks]

I think it's because we've gotten used to the "Timber's Closing Thoughts" section of appeal and headmin rulings

I think the missing part of the response is how they would ensure a ban like that wouldn’t happen again. But yeah, that would be part of Timber’s closing thoughts wouldn’t it?

[CPTANT]

Shit tier resolution. Still punishing people for something that harmed no one and was the result of completely unforeseeable circumstances.

Manual confirmed hugbox once again.

[Kendrickorium]

I think it's because we've gotten used to the "Timber's Closing Thoughts" section of appeal and headmin rulings

I think the missing part of the response is how they would ensure a ban like that wouldn’t happen again. But yeah, that would be part of Timber’s closing thoughts wouldn’t it?

everything we ever needed or wanted is always included in Timber's Closing Thoughts

[vect0r]

>Gets banned for 4 days
>Appeals
>Admin doubles down
>Escalate to Headmins
>4 days pass
>Headmins agree 4 day ban bad, but keep note

Do you guys think a complaint would be upheld if Maia complained that the ban was unnecessary?

Yeah something felt off about the headmin response that I couldn’t quite put my finger on. Their reasoning is factual but the response left much to desire.

Yeah, rule whatever is meant to punish bad faith actors who keep skirting the rules, then lawyering when getting bwoinked. Maia did neither of those, and now people on MRP are going to be stressed about creatively killing antags, because even if nothing goes wrong, you might get bwoinked and banned.