Kaladin Stormblessed(TheBeheader)

[Falamazeer]

Your byond account:Wootanon
Your character name:Ham Sammich
Their character name:Kaladin Stormblessed
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it):TheBeheader
Server and time:Round that just ended just now
Logs and/or screenshots:Meh, got some of em, but admins can testify who got some of the leg work done during the original Ahelp, they were overloaded though so I understand
Description of what happened
:I latejoined to hear about how the armory was looted, asked around to find out what happened, comms were also down, but the detective scanned the door and said budget insulated gloves, So I went looking for someone wearing them, space lag happened and a bunch of people DCd, when I reconnected I found an engineer or atmos guy looting Kaled, Might have saw a gun but It was quick, Didn't even catch the looters name, but the budget gloves were still there, so I cuffed the DCd kaladin under suspicion over the gloves, and take him to interrogation, he reconnects halfway to the brig, and complains heavily.

Once I get him to the brig I explain he's under arrest for robbing the armory and I proceed to test his ID against the door to check for access, I come back and he's screaming about how it's a frame job, He gets loose and spam disarms me, I don't wanna pull my gun because of the disarms so I try the flashbang still thinking security always stands first on flashbang, I trigger it, he disarms me of it, and yet somehow I'm down longer than he is, Must have mis-gauged who was closer but whatever, long story short, he strips me, swaps his ID and clothes for mine, and then waltzes right out of the brig.

Then, The semi-retarded detective claims I'm lying about being a security officer, despite having talked to me earlier in the round, but mistakes can be made I understand, I'm carted around the brig for most of my round after this until I manage to convince them of my officership, and I re-gear with what little is available to me this late, namely a baton, flash etc etc, but I'm pretty much fucked as far as a gun goes. I then try to arrest Kaladin, Naturally he shoots me with my own gun, then the HoP who was watching, then runs off again, with my baton.

Pretty much my entire round is being soaked up by this one guy, So I Ahelp it, as I'm out of any means of actually stopping him, Not even able to re-enter the brig without my ID, And the admins are totally preocupied with the general insanity of the round, I get replies, and they managed to force him to give me my ID back at least, but they were too busy to sort through it, Again, I understand, the round was in shambles, but he kept literately everything I owned, besides that, he had managed to somehow loot up even further with the RDs gear, carter lowe. and his only given excuse for any of it was that he needed my stuff to protect himself 'from the bad men' Insulated gloves the borg eventually brigged him for me, and the captain gave him over to me to do with what I will, so I perma'd him and spent the remaining shuttle time ensuring that nobody released him.

tl;dr Utterly wrekt a security officer for literately not even a single raisen during a round that clearly didn't need help going to shit, Armory gone, comms down, chef with a pistol went nucking futs. etc etc. All over an arrest that was just about over based on guesswork that turned out to be without merit.

[Boredone]

Well, I didn't watch the whole thing, I do know a few things.

1. If you are standing on the same tile as a flashbang when it goes off, it ignores all defenses and stuns you longer. Not a solo tactic.
2. Kaladin actually was the one who looted the armory, so you got the right guy over the gloves.

[Falamazeer]

Again, I'd like to reiterate that I then spent most of my time being carted around with a sec officer who didn't know what to do with me, So in the meantime I'm not sure what all he did, but based on his final loot I can imagine he robbed others with wild abandon using my name and my loot.

Also also, Ausops was the admin who handled it, with a little clarity for the flashbang from laharl.

[Falamazeer]

Well, I didn't watch the whole thing, I do know a few things.

1. If you are standing on the same tile as a flashbang when it goes off, it ignores all defenses and stuns you longer. Not a solo tactic.
2. Kaladin actually was the one who looted the armory, so you got the right guy over the gloves.

1 Yeah, My mistake, Laharl explained it to me after the fact, not sure I like that change, but who knows as far as balance goes if it's good or not
2 Well, I thought so, but he got looted hard just before, so I had no real proof


He wasn't even an antag and he crippled security hard, Twofold, by robbing me, and the armory.

[Falamazeer]

I really don't want this to slide between the cracks and have it locked in a month because nobody did anything.
He only got away with it because the admins at the time were overloaded, it's blatant greytiding, and he's not long off a permaban if you search his name you can see it.

[imblyings]

The consensus in asay was that- and while I empathize completely with how shitty he was- that this was an IC issue. We were looking very hard to see if he had done anything that stepped over the line OOC but policy is policy. Had he done this without any provocation at all or if he had escalated to a certain point, we would have taken action.

I am sorry about how this was resolved but if another admin sees another way this can be resolved, I'd be happy for them to take over.

[Falamazeer]

Not sure how you mean, Not arguing or anything as I'm sure there is A LOT of things I don't know about this round, but I don't see the provocation, He robbed the armory to the bare bones, then got searched for it, and went full retard against the poor schmuck who was looking into it.

Not like I beat him, or even tased him, I did nothing to provoke a response of this magnitude, and he had no rights to the armory he in fact looted. Like I said in another thread, it was painfully obvious he only didn't kill me because he wanted to claim his mercy as a plus to ofset his shitlerisms.

What policy allows some assistant to rob the armory, and utterly wreck anyone who is trying to fix it?
Because I'm only aware of the policy that strictly doesn't allow that, greytiding policy.
Is it just physically impossible on this server to grief if you only grief security? because if so, we're even more fucked than I've been saying

[imblyings]

I think this was why someone advised you to make a ban request. Graytiding policy seems to come into effect two times in the rules page,

>Repeatedly wrecking havoc on other players' experience without otherwise contributing anything of actual value to the game will not be tolerated.
>A person that is intentionally fucking with security is to be brigged, if that fails execute, if you suspect someone of continuously doing this over several rounds, to adminhelp it

I'm not too fond of how some parts of the rules policy is worded but as it stands, TheBeheader did nothing we could take action against. If he continues this sort of behaviour in the future or if he toes the line regarding graytide or grief laws, we can step in. As it was, it was an IC issue that should have been and was resolved IC. Still, if another admin sees differently, please post itt.

edit. I could add a note to TheBeheader to watch for future similar situations/excessive escalation but that's probably the most you'll get out of this thread. I'll ask someone about it.

[Falamazeer]

Well, I suppose that's fair, I want to be clear that I find fault with the policy, and not you or your interpretation of it, it's sound.

That being said, that's utter bullshit, because some people simply cannot be stopped, I made a mistake with the flashbang, and deservedly got dunked for it, But It wasn't just that, the fucker was robust as shit, At least to my midling sensibilities, He dropped me three times that round, The original time, The second when I made an attempt to reclaim my badge and gun, And a third after a secborg dropped him for me, I was trying to give the fucker silver pills, and he nearly got away AGAIN.

It could be argued that my lack of robustness let things get this far, But I'm not one for epic single combat, Been playing a goodly while and I've never been noted for being stronk, There is only so much you can do with a touchpad and clumsy ogre fingers.

A good example of this was burer, who was banned multiple times for nearly every round finding some IC justification to utterly destroy the security team in it's entirety, I'm not saying this guy was that level of robustness, or even as sinister, I'm just pointing out that there are plenty of people in this game who can presumably wreck any given sec force at any time, and the only reason they don't is because you're not supposed to be a shithead to your fellow players.

This guy was a shithead, he stole the armory because there was nothing stopping him, he dunked an officer, because he could, went on to doppleganger the RD, because why not? And it's labled IC, Because he did it well. and he did it to security, Who apparently by law cannot be victims because they start with guns.

If a jackbooted thug such as myself utterly wrecks medbay for example, Steals the surgery tools, and the defibs, Then when a medbay doctor came to investigate, Wrecked and savaged him, leaving him stripped and IDless in a hallway, You can bet your sweet ass I'd be getting got for it, Yet somehow the opposite is ok, All the tools for my job were GONE, right down to my ID, I had no way to meaningfully participate with my team, and yet, When sec is the victim, It's IC, but if sec is the shitwagon, it's definitely OOC.


Edit: Can you tell me his stated reason for the armory and all this?

[imblyings]

It wasn't very good reasoning and I think you covered the gist of it in your first post.

I'm trying to walk a very fine line between trying to let players sort things out IC while applying admin intervention to remove harmful players and I still don't have the finesse or experience yet I guess. That being said, I'll go ahead with a note on excessive retaliation in the morning if no other admins post.

[Falamazeer]

(nevermind I suppose)

[Jacough]

The consensus in asay was that- and while I empathize completely with how shitty he was- that this was an IC issue. We were looking very hard to see if he had done anything that stepped over the line OOC but policy is policy. Had he done this without any provocation at all or if he had escalated to a certain point, we would have taken action.

I am sorry about how this was resolved but if another admin sees another way this can be resolved, I'd be happy for them to take over.

Hold the fuck up. Since when have we allowed blatant grey tiding? Pretty sure looting the armory for absolutely no reason aside from "fuck da police" and stripping an officer of his gear just because "waah he arrested me for being a total shitbag" falls under rule 1: Don't be a dick.

>Repeatedly wrecking havoc on other players' experience without otherwise contributing anything of actual value to the game will not be tolerated.
>A person that is intentionally fucking with security is to be brigged, if that fails execute, if you suspect someone of continuously doing this over several rounds, to adminhelp it

You and I must be looking at different rule pages

... If an individual repeatedly does this, or you suspect him of doing so, you should adminhelp.
If a person is intentionally fucking with security is yelling "rogue sec" or something similar, adminhelp it. This can be punished with a rule 1 violation ban.

Nothing about doing this over several rounds. It makes it pretty clear that if someone's intentionally fucking with security for no reason it's best to deal with them immediately instead of waiting several rounds to see if they make a habit of it.

[Falamazeer]

The consensus in asay was that- and while I empathize completely with how shitty he was- that this was an IC issue. We were looking very hard to see if he had done anything that stepped over the line OOC but policy is policy. Had he done this without any provocation at all or if he had escalated to a certain point, we would have taken action.

I am sorry about how this was resolved but if another admin sees another way this can be resolved, I'd be happy for them to take over.

Hold the fuck up. Since when have we allowed blatant grey tiding? Pretty sure looting the armory for absolutely no reason aside from "fuck da police" and stripping an officer of his gear just because "waah he arrested me for being a total shitbag" falls under rule 1: Don't be a dick.

>Repeatedly wrecking havoc on other players' experience without otherwise contributing anything of actual value to the game will not be tolerated.
>A person that is intentionally fucking with security is to be brigged, if that fails execute, if you suspect someone of continuously doing this over several rounds, to adminhelp it

You and I must be looking at different rule pages

... If an individual repeatedly does this, or you suspect him of doing so, you should adminhelp.
If a person is intentionally fucking with security is yelling "rogue sec" or something similar, adminhelp it. This can be punished with a rule 1 violation ban.

Nothing about doing this over several rounds. It makes it pretty clear that if someone's intentionally fucking with security for no reason it's best to deal with them immediately instead of waiting several rounds to see if they make a habit of it.

Like I said, they were really swamped, I'm not trying to hold a witch trial for ausops or laharl or any admin that round, there was a lot going on, a fustercluck of a clusterfuck

I'm not challenging the reading of the policy, Just the policy itself, If this is allowed to happen by policy and it shouldn't be, then it should be re-worded to reflect that, because frankly it's protecting shitwagons and punishing an already terrible job.

[Falamazeer]

I was ready to drop it, and just give up, but Jacough makes good points, can I get someone a little higher up the ladder to look into this?
It's pretty much blatant greytiding and He's all around a shitty player as I've seen him since being cunty during a blob round.

That and I feel like it's gonna end up culminating into something else, as he waited around in dead chat for 15 minutes just to call me ham fagwich and then leave.
Seriously, fuck this guy, Call me salty all you want, but The fucker would already be gone if admins weren't overloaded that round.

[imblyings]

I've added a note and the forums ate my post when I clicked save as draft accidentally. In response to Jacough, current policy and all the precedents I've seen define greytiding as some sort of unprovoked attack against sec as a whole or the brig itself. If another admin pops in and sets a new precedence for excessive retaliation for a legitimate arrest to be greytiding, I'll follow suit and will happily do so, but my hands are tied until then.

Anyway, the guy got himself permabanned for unrelated reasons. Good riddance, etc.

[Falamazeer]

Oh, Well then this thread is resolved, he got perma'd, he's got his note, this thread is the least of his worries I guess, fuck that asshole.
I'll probably reference this in a policy thread later, thanks for the help ausops