Expectations of Security

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Quey
 
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Expectations of Security

Postby Quey » Sat May 24, 2014 7:23 am #8554

When playing captain or HoS (and warden as well, depending), what do you expect of your officers? Conversely, if you're an officer, what do you expect from your superiors? What do you expect in terms of patrolling, handling prisoners, and gathering evidence?

For one example, some people demand that the warden processes every prisoner, while others have arresting officers process them. The first has the benefit of freeing up officers to patrol, while the second required less coordination ("Why is this guy set to arrest? What time should I set on the cell?"). Of course, there are ways of doing both for various situations, but that requires good communication.

I've seen plenty of decent security teams, but nothing really exceptional. It seems everyone has different standards, and I'd like to hear them. I want to know what things are universal (say, expecting people to show up when officers call for help), and what varies the most (maybe how much the captain should be involved in various tasks).



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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby imblyings » Sat May 24, 2014 7:39 am #8556

be robust, be cheap, be powergaming as fuck, whatever it takes to come out on top after a fight

know at least a bare minimum of how antags and griffons work

fuck up any violent or disruptive antags or griffons

know when to disregard space law to win the long ic and ooc game of good publicity for sec

work as a team, live as a team, stop at nothing to save teammates

use the fucking sec radio

suit sensors

that's pretty much it. A perfect sec officer is a robust teamplayer out to get valids on dicks.

---

as a warden or hos

all the above except

call roll calls and get people to report in every ten, fifteen minutes

make sure people know what's going on

leading people, make sure they're working in a team and using coordination

warden has to make sure sec records are updated and make sure he's a fucking pinnacle of robustness because he's protecting the fucking brig.

hos has to be a pinnacle of robustness as well but also so much more. As the leader, you set the mood, the psychology, for sec. You need to get them psyched for raids, you need to instil that precious camaraderie and you need to make sure each and every officer under you command is okay. You also need to have answers, answers and orders ready whenever your officers ask. Knowing what has to be done is crucial for a hos.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby paprika » Sat May 24, 2014 7:51 am #8559

imblyings wrote:to win the game

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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby imblyings » Sat May 24, 2014 7:57 am #8561

hey now that's just unfairly taking things out of context

no one gives a fuck about end of round results the day after. Sec plays the long-term game of keeping it's OOC reputation afloat and that is a game it has to win.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby srifenbyxp » Sat May 24, 2014 10:50 am #8586

I expect security to royally fuck up and cause the crew to hate them.
I expect to unfuck everyone's mess.
I expect people to ask me to talk reason into my red shirts.
I expect to be bribed very easily with thermal goggles and dual energy swords.

Dear god, I wish I had taken a screen shot of that traitor clown whom I struck a bargain with saying "Through his boundless mercy the HoS has released me from the brig."
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Malkevin » Sat May 24, 2014 1:18 pm #8602

I expect people to hate me
I expect the rest of my sec team to die and loose all their weapons
I expect the ones that survive to be varying degrees of incompetent and shit
I expect to have more trouble with clowns and assistants.
I expect bwoops from autist admins that moan when I kill the above.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby lumipharon » Sat May 24, 2014 3:11 pm #8611

As a warden

I expect officers to know what minor crimes to ignore, when to give warnings and when to dunk people. Also how long to search and brig people.
I also expect all of sec to max their bloody sensors, to communicate properly, and to work together as a team.
I expect all of sec to be at least moderately robust, the HoS more so, and to not be fucking shitters.
I expect the HoS to gloriously lead from the front, while I sit in my office, looking at my consoles and acting in a supporting role most of the time.

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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Jeb » Sat May 24, 2014 4:19 pm #8636

I expect security to not walk around with their weapons out, or I will steal them from you.

Yes, I'm talking to you HoS from a couple days ago. Tim Ebow in cargonia sure did like the 2 shields, 1 Egun and 1 Stunbaton that I stole from you because you're retarded and kept running back to the armory to get more after I pushed you and stole your shit.

He gave me 1 pair of insulated gloves and steady employment within his department.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby ColonicAcid » Sat May 24, 2014 5:27 pm #8653

>I'm going to teach these new players not to be bad by being a massive dick!

you're doing gods work jeb.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby King Cohort » Sat May 24, 2014 5:31 pm #8656

I expect Security to at least make an attempt to communicate with people they arrest, if not at the crime scene (because it's too dangerous or whatever), then at the brig. I expect them to be mildly literate, too. I don't feel these are hard expectations to meet.

Nothing pisses me off more than silent sec officers who wordlessly brig an assistant for 5 minutes, but a close-runner up is sec officers with horrible spelling and grammar who don't capitalize what they say. It's very indicative of how seriously they take their position and how much they actually give a shit about being a good officer (i.e. not at all).

Don't be a slave to space law, either. Any officer who's ever uttered a variation of the phrase "[crime] is still [crime]" to justify brigging people is automatically shit in my eyes.

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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Krypt0n » Sat May 24, 2014 5:48 pm #8661

I may be crazy or am wrong on this server, but I expect Sec to not be proud of the amount of ahelps being sent because of them. I am still a bit shocked that that is a thing.

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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Steelpoint » Sat May 24, 2014 5:50 pm #8662

I don't recall security players boasting about the amount of ahelp's sent their way. If anything most sec players want to avoid ahelp's whenever possible.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Alzam » Sat May 24, 2014 5:52 pm #8663

I expect sec to not confiscate shit like sunglasses and toolbelts from people when arrested for a completely unrelated crime. I was brigged once for fighting with the clown and was arrested (along with the clown, which is fine) but was not fine was losing my gloves, belt, and sunglasses, all obtained legally for no reason at all. Shit like that is dumb and is part of the reason why people don't want to go to the brig willingly. Also I expect sec officers to have their priorities straight. An assistant with body armor is not a fucking problem when there are nuclear operatives about. Don't confiscate a civilian crewmember's weaponry during malf ai for having it. Tell your prisoners exactly what they're in for, wordless brig timer and then them walking off is a sure fire way to make the captive try to break out. (which sec will no doubt use as justification for further punishment). I cooperate with sec who are willing to talk and reason, but you bet your ass I will disarm stun anyone wordlessly trying to put me under arrest without reason.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Steelpoint » Sat May 24, 2014 6:02 pm #8667

If your running around with armour, that implies you may have gained access to other restricted items such as stun weaponry or worse. It's not unfair to harshly judge Security for detaining, searching and removing the offending items. I will say time and time again in cases where the suspect is suspected to have a weapon, Sec takes no chances and usually goes in with a "Shoot first, ask questions later" approach as that guarantees the safety of the Officer.

However Officers confiscating gloves and toolbelts for no reason is bad behaviour, and should be discouraged. Also Officers should have a good sense of autonomy, mainly to adapt to a situation at hand and to not look at a situation in black and white. (Meaning it may be better to let that assistant keep the body armour so you can deal with bigger fish).

It's really a game of focusing your priorities, while a good HoS has to lead from the front, s/he should be attempting to use his pawns (Officers, Detective) in a way to maximise Security's resources and distribution. Which almost never happens cause almost no Sec Officer on Sybil ever reports in consistently to be relied on.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby miggles » Sat May 24, 2014 6:03 pm #8668

As a security officer, I don't even know or care about Space Law, I only give timers for crimes that I think actually deserve it and only for as long as the person deserves.
As non-sec, I expect (or rather hope) that security also doesn't bother with the small stuff, because that's just being a dick for the purposes of THE LAW. Communication is key. Don't stun someone unless they run away when you try and talk to them. *Unless they're a wanted criminal and you know why. It's still best to talk to them after you arrest them though, to get their side before all the other officers dogpile them with accusations and questions and they have to scream to explain themselves.
If you're sec and you actually bother to arrest people for crimes during emergencies (wizard, blob, nuke ops) you are literally the fucking worst. Especially if those crimes were done for the purposes of saving lives or getting weapons to kill the bad guys.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Alzam » Sat May 24, 2014 6:06 pm #8669

Steelpoint wrote:If your running around with armour, that implies you may have gained access to other restricted items such as stun weaponry or worse. It's not unfair to harshly judge Security for detaining, searching and removing the offending items. I will say time and time again in cases where the suspect is suspected to have a weapon, Sec takes no chances and usually goes in with a "Shoot first, ask questions later" approach as that guarantees the safety of the Officer..



This is fine in normal circumstances, but I specified operatives (which I meant as nuke ops, not agents, prob shoulda added wizard too) which there is no excuse for sec to be shits to normal crewmembers for breaking the law unless they were actively hindering sec's efforts to capture or kill the threat. Yet I see it more than I should (at all.)
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby bandit » Sat May 24, 2014 6:21 pm #8677

I expect most crewmembers to whine and whine and whine and whine when they are arrested for legitimate crimes.
I expect wanted criminals to bolt and yakety sax instead of talking to the officer who actually tries to do the "talk first" approach.
I expect people to be massive dicks to security escorting a prisoner to the brig, up to and including freeing the prisoner and attacking and stealing from the officer.
I expect every brigged criminal to attempt escape at any opportunity, wasting security's time.
I expect fellow officers to have no idea why people are wanted at any given moment.
I expect the warden never to do anything.

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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Tokiko2 » Sat May 24, 2014 7:47 pm #8691

I expect security not to be powertripping.

It is really a sad thing if you get bolted and buckle cuffed in a 3x2 perma cell for having an emag...and then have the security players scream in OOC after the round ends about how you are a shitler for ghosting and not putting up with their "punishment". I've also seen security players who suggest that ghosting/afking in perma should be bannable and talking as if everyone getting permabrigged is a griefer, rather than simply a player who was choosen as an antag.

Please don't play security if you have this mindset.

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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Scott » Sat May 24, 2014 11:07 pm #8740

Ghosting because you got caught is pretty shit. If you're thrown into the permabrig it's fine though.

Though I don't see how security doing their job is powertripping.

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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby paprika » Sat May 24, 2014 11:11 pm #8741

People mistake getting caught and thrown in permabrig as having their round ruined apparently and it's 'mean' when the whole point of being a traitor is to have the looming threat of potentially being taken out of the round hung over your head. If all security let syndicate agents go back into the work force for some fucking reason (without a tracking or chem implant) I'd be fucking baffled and antagonists would walk all over security.

Also, there's usually a reason for the isolation shutters being down, as in someone in perma before you abused it or caused a breach, or tried to. I always let the first person in permabrig outside of isolation until they start fucking around and then it's lockdown for everyone because if you abuse a privilege you lose it.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Tokiko2 » Sat May 24, 2014 11:24 pm #8744

You're missunderstanding what I meant. I don't mean that getting removed from the round as an antag by security is bad.

I meant that security officers who stuff you into a 3x2 isolation cell and then expect you to stay around for an hour or more and then rant on in OOC when you decide to ghost or go AFK. Yeah sorry, but I'm not going to keep around if I am thrown into a tiny cell with no interaction, I'll either observe the current round by ghosting or do something else. I don't see how anyone who does this is a shitty player either.

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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Scott » Sat May 24, 2014 11:25 pm #8745

Tell them to fuck off.

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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby paprika » Sun May 25, 2014 1:34 am #8767

Tokiko2 wrote:You're missunderstanding what I meant. I don't mean that getting removed from the round as an antag by security is bad.

I meant that security officers who stuff you into a 3x2 isolation cell and then expect you to stay around for an hour or more and then rant on in OOC when you decide to ghost or go AFK. Yeah sorry, but I'm not going to keep around if I am thrown into a tiny cell with no interaction, I'll either observe the current round by ghosting or do something else. I don't see how anyone who does this is a shitty player either.

That's like the literal reason ghosting exists, but you should suicide next time instead, maybe you'll be borged.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Lovecraft » Sun May 25, 2014 1:39 am #8768

For context, if you didn't know I play Command/Security a lot. Almost every round.
I expect a few things from officers. I expect them all to be Alfred Keplins, because he is the model to strive for.
Be polite.
Communicate.
Ask questions, don't just be brash and jump to conclusions.
Disagree with command but still follow orders when necessary.
Actually be skilled in detaining criminals.

What I hate to see is people who:
Are rude to everyone, command included.
Harmbaton over disrespect.
Perma passed on next to nothing.
Harmbaton people posted over them when they disagree.
Scream and bitchfit when demoted.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Gun Hog » Sun May 25, 2014 1:46 am #8769


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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Helios127 » Sun May 25, 2014 3:27 am #8785

Jane-Luc.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby mrpain » Sun May 25, 2014 4:51 am #8794

UPDATE

THE DAMN

SECURITY RECORDS!
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Psyentific » Sun May 25, 2014 5:57 am #8805

mrpain wrote:UPDATE

THE DAMN

SECURITY RECORDS!

I would if I could do it on my HUD.
I haven't logged into SS13 in at least a year.

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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby paprika » Sun May 25, 2014 7:02 am #8811

I wish PDAs could do it.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby mrpain » Sun May 25, 2014 9:58 am #8821

Psyentific wrote:
mrpain wrote:UPDATE

THE DAMN

SECURITY RECORDS!

I would if I could do it on my HUD.


I wonder...how easy would this be to code?

I mean, you can already change someones arrest status by examining them with HUD's on.

How hard would it be to let you add notes or a reason in there?
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby 420goslingboy69 » Sun May 25, 2014 3:27 pm #8854

Follow Sinnowcurity. Fuck Space Law. Brig by intention.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Lovecraft » Sun May 25, 2014 3:39 pm #8858

What if people just lie
what if you misunderstand the situation
what if that's dumb
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Steelpoint » Sun May 25, 2014 3:54 pm #8861

It really just come's down to intuition when it comes to brigging. Let's face it, brigging people really only just keeps them out of the round for a few minutes, and is usually a waste of time considering the time taken to bring them to the brig, search them, question them, then sentencing them.

My personnel rule of thumb is to reserve brigging for people that I either don't have time to deal with or who are extremely unreasonable and constantly resisting arrest and cooperation. Usually I just let people go after a search and a talk to, I never really brig people with the exception of captured antagonists that are going to the perma brig.

I mean, not only is normal brigging a waste of the prisoners time, its a waste of my time potentially. A Warden is a luxury and I more often than not have to babysit the brig to let them out.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby imblyings » Sun May 25, 2014 4:08 pm #8862

good man
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Miauw » Sun May 25, 2014 4:39 pm #8868

I don't really like permabrigging people, but if I put people in permabrig I'll usually tell them what's going to happen to them (e.g. you're being put on trial, we're preparing public execution, etc) so they have a reason not to ghost/suicide.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Jeb » Sun May 25, 2014 5:35 pm #8876

I have no problems being permabrigged, until you remove my headset when I haven't been screaming over radio about shitcurity.

The minute the headset comes off, Jeb goes catatonic.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby bandit » Sun May 25, 2014 6:01 pm #8881

I don't give a shit about catatonics and I don't know why anyone who plays security does. Prisoner goes catatonic = prisoner is no longer able to stir up shit. Give me an insta-catatonic guy any day over a whiny gray tiding escape-attempting dick.
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Miauw » Sun May 25, 2014 7:22 pm #8895

if somebody suicides/ghosts the moment they're caught, it just shows that they are complete shitheads that only play antag to satisfy their murderboner.
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Psyentific
 
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Psyentific » Sun May 25, 2014 7:26 pm #8898

Miauw wrote:if somebody suicides/ghosts the moment they're caught, it just shows that they are complete shitheads that only play antag to satisfy their murderboner.

If you're going to drop me straight into perma once you land the stuncuff, I'm going to ghost out. Perma is effectively round removal - At least in the gulag, you can try and dig to freedom. At least as a borg you're still in the round.
I haven't logged into SS13 in at least a year.

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ColonicAcid
 
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby ColonicAcid » Sun May 25, 2014 7:33 pm #8901

not on metastation it ain't
you have to press a button and hack a door and then you can prison break through space. When I'm traitor I always do it before i do something big and i've had 100% success rate in space walking to freedom.

git
gud
crack is whack but smacks got your back

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Psyentific
 
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Psyentific » Sun May 25, 2014 7:50 pm #8906

Well, yeah, but.
I haven't logged into SS13 in at least a year.

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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Sun May 25, 2014 8:53 pm #8915

Always ask first, shoot second, unless violence already broke up. If you're not a stupid asshole, everyone already knows your location, who you are dealing with and you may be even have AI eyeball on top of you and you are backed up in genetics. Yes, your life is less valuable than reputation of security, especially with like million ways to get you back to life.

Also you must follow orders. Unless they are completely retarded, then you may complain after you followed the order.

As a head, one should issue those orders. One should be aware of everybody in the department and preferably call everybody by names. This hopefully should improve morality and respect towards you.

Forget the space law entirely. It's fucking retarded. If a person's acting like a shithead, take away his everything and then either throw them away naked or put in cell and gradually increase timer over time. They will catatonic before you even have to do it, if you're lucky. If they're not acting like a shithead, decide if they're a threat or not. If they are, see if you can remove their ability to be a threat. That may include demotion or perma or something.

Timer punishments are fucking stupid and don't do anything meaningful.

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ShizCalev
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby ShizCalev » Sun May 25, 2014 9:22 pm #8924

Image
ImageImage


>Be ling
>Spread misinformation about how SM works to sabotage it
OOC: ChemicalRascal: Lying about game mechanics in relation to an engine that is poorly understood by most isn't cool, though

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420goslingboy69
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby 420goslingboy69 » Sun May 25, 2014 9:53 pm #8938

Lovecraft wrote:What if people just lie
what if you misunderstand the situation
what if that's dumb

What is empathy and intuition?
i play :):):):):)autumn sinnow
this man's:):):):):) army
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Higgin » Mon May 26, 2014 1:46 am #8995

420goslingboy69 wrote:
Lovecraft wrote:What if people just lie
what if you misunderstand the situation
what if that's dumb

What is empathy and intuition?

Shit happens. Act in your best conscience and don't what-if.
what-ifing everything is stupid, dumb, and limiting. you are dangerous. you are security. Time spent what-iffing is time not spent pursuing the threats or patrolling. If you fucked up, fix it. Arresting somebody as a suspect and THEN finding the solid evidence of their misdeed is a valid tact.
Don't be abusive and don't be unreasonable. Stay aware, stay awake, communicate with the other officers, and pursue the realest dangers that you can see at full force. Don't brig people unless it's necessary to keep them out of the way to deal with other situations because it only engenders more dislike for security and isn't long enough to be a valuable contribution to the safety of the station.

After somebody's used violence, all bets are off - don't feel bad about knocking their dick in the dirt.
If they're a suspect, try to stop them and bring them in peacefully first but be ready for shit to go down.

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Psyentific
 
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Psyentific » Mon May 26, 2014 2:01 am #8998

If you want someone for questioning, try PDA'ing them.
I haven't logged into SS13 in at least a year.

Higgin
 
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Higgin » Mon May 26, 2014 2:05 am #9000

Psyentific wrote:If you want someone for questioning, try PDA'ing them.

Takes too long except for circumstantial details from witnesses. Also alerts tatos to your suspicion. Finding them in the wild is how to do it, unless there's no hope of that.

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Psyentific
 
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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Psyentific » Mon May 26, 2014 2:52 am #9010

No, I mean PDA'ing them to come to the brig for questions. Tell them that if they don't show up within 5m, they're under proper arrest or something. Just to eliminate the confusion of seeing someone wanted, tasing/brigging, then hearing "Oh he's wanted for questioning about <Case solved 15m ago>"
I haven't logged into SS13 in at least a year.

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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Mon May 26, 2014 5:01 am #9065

Yes, setting people on arrest because they are needed as a witness is fucking retarded

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Re: Expectations of Security

Postby Incomptinence » Mon May 26, 2014 6:07 am #9082

Sec and det pda carts are pretty old and rarely used, it would be nice if they had full computer functionality for their respective roles. Witness and Protective Custody settings would be nice for arrest status, security barely functions as a defensive force.

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