[Inspiria] Jigglyy - Perm Ban

[Jigglyy]

Byond account and character name: Jigglyy - Robusts-The-Crew

Banning admin: Inspiria

Ban type (What are you banned from?): Perm Ban

Ban reason and length:

Time ban was placed (including time zone):2017-12-29 18:00:57

Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Terry

Your side of the story:

Shift #1 Meta-Station

We'll start off with when "King Push" got a reason to meta-grudge against me. I just arrived at the station, a shift was around 1 hour in and people were traitoring.

Apparently, the captain was having problems with some people and was cuffed, I saved the captain and uncuffed him and then went on to do w/e since I wasn't sure what was going on.

5 Minutes later AI says harm in chemistry so I go to chemistry and see king push + some other dude killing the captain. I get in there, save the captain, then the dude and king push beat me a little and cuff me.
After a somewhat lengthy scuffle, I robust them both and captain was saved. <----This is where I think he started meta-grudging, I am also not sure if he was an antagonist that round and just simply self antagged because he didn't like the captain.

Shift #2 Pubby-Station

This is where the meta-grudge started happening, the shift started, I was assistant, tooled up and went to explore the station, I see the RD "King Push" get into the first set of bridge doors ( sorta like this ), I follow him, curious to see what he's doing.

He then stops, (note that I didn't do anything, the doors were still wide open and I was leaving at this point), pulls out his telebaton and hits me with it. He then drags me off to a sec dude and tells him "Perma brig him, he was trying to sneak into cap's office" (I was not even near cap's office as the bridge doors were the ones on the right, next to HoP office.)

I try to defend myself saying the truth to the sec officer and King simply answers with "Don't listen to his rambling" "Robust's a shitler"
(I only interacted with king for maybe 1-2 rounds, don't know why he's calling me a shitler, more reason for me to believe he's meta-grudging against something that I don't remember doing)
Sec officer didn't really buy his shit too much and he arrested me only for 2 minutes. After I got out king push was still there and he wanted to implant me "in case I do anything sketchy", he was really adamant about it even though the sec officer was saying no, he kept insisting that he was acting captain and to do what he says.

While I was in the holding cell I ahelped saying that he's meta-grudging me and that he had no valid reason to do what he's doing. To reiterate, until now I did absolutely nothing to warrant me being perma-brigged or even arrested.

At this point I was quite pissed off that he's just going to get away with this and I grabbed King Push aggressively to take his shit off, sec officer intervened, dragged me out and I was leaving, then king push starts running at me and batons me again, drags me into sec and then gets promptly stun-batoned by the sec officer as he's trying to get us both out of there.

I manage to get up, get king's baton and started beating him as at I was pretty pissed that this is happening, I thought that at this point he's either meta-grudging or a traitor because I really didn't believe that he could do this shit and not get warned by now. (He was not a traitor).

After another scuffle between me, king push and sec officer, king push dies, I die and then he gets cloned while I just stay dead for the rest of the round.
I stayed for another 5 minutes after my death until I just logged off as I was kinda raging, thought the admins weren't doing shit, and that he might be a traitor (to reiterate, he wasn't a traitor)

Reconnect maybe 1 hour later he's fine, round-end screen thing shows up he was not a traitor.

Shift #3 Pubby-Station

The shift started, was a roboticist, went to grab a budged insulated, went to dorms, got a soap and started playing those machines, Orion thing and the other one in dorms.
I saw king push hacking cap's office again and I just ignored him hoping that he will ignore me too.

After playing that 5 minutes I go back to roboticist office and started building some borgs. I notice that sec is ganging up around robo for some reason with their tasers in hand. (I did nothing until now)
Intuition told me that they were after me (hint hint, they were), 3 minutes pass as I built a borg and RD King Push shows up, gets his telebaton and runs at me.

Now, what I did next I admit was wrong, but I was very pissed off that this is happening when I literally DID NOTHING that shift and It was barely 10 minutes in.
So I soaped him, got his baton, batoned him and spaced him out of anger. Again, in hindsight, I admit that this was the wrong move, but being pissed off does something to people's logic, especially when this was the 2nd time it happens FOR NO REASON, still, I was wrong in doing this and I shouldn't have done it.

Now admin talks ensued, apparently, the ahelp from last round was still going on but I logged off and nothing came out of it. Now, I logged off because nothing was happening, I didn't know if the admins were doing anything as no one told me anything and king push was still fine and dandy. I felt like there was nothing else to tell the admins and didn't know I had to be on when someone else did something wrong. <---- This is related to shift #2 ahelp

For the reasons above, after spacing him and some admin talk, I got permed and was told to bring it to the forums.



Why you think you should be unbanned:


Even though I admit that the spacing of him was bad, and I am totally in the wrong for that, I just hope you guys understand where I'm coming from.

Both shift #2 and #3 I did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and king push both times comes and wants to fuck with me, I just wanna play the game, I didn't go to provoke him, he came at me for no reason other than that meta-grudge from previous rounds.

The admin that was handling King Push in shift #2 told me nothing about what was happening, I was left in the dark, how should've I known that I had to stay on when he told me nothing?

In conclusion, I don't think I deserved a perm ban because I didn't start or provoke any of this, I was simply playing the game and reacted (albeit hastily) to him fucking with me for no valid reason.

[Ispiria]

Round isn't over yet, I'll formulate a reply once it ends.

[Ispiria]

Mkay round's over.

So first of all I wanted to say thanks for remaining calm and levelheaded in your appeal, a lot of times situations like these can lead to heightened tempers and make it really unpleasant to deal with, so I'm relieved you've taken a bit of time to think about it and are able to stay collected here!

As regards the ban itself - I was adminning for Sybil most of the night, it was my main server before I became an admin and remains my favorite now. I got an alert about a new ahelp from Terry, someone saying there was a lot of misbehavior going on, and since Sybil was quiet I hopped over to check. I joined maybe 7~10 minutes in, and this would've been the round you listed as shift 1. There were a lot of ahelps that came in as soon as people noticed an admin in, and I spent most of the round just trying to figure out what was going on and where, didn't have a lot of time to figure out who'd actually caused what problems and mostly resolved to just start over in the next round, as this was a pretty short one. I should mention that your name came up a few times in the tickets I was trying to sift through, but it didn't really register with me because the whole thing was a huge mess.

Shift two begins and now Jazaen is on to help me admin, and it was actually them who handled the ticket that came up between you and King. I'm not 100% on this because I was dealing with other things at the time, but I believe it ended when you logged off before a resolution could be reached - unable to gather anymore information from you, who seemed to have received the worst of the conflict, I believe Jazaen dropped the issue since there wasn't much more that could be done without you (please correct me if I'm remembering wrong, Jaz).

Shift three, and not five minutes in I get an ahelp asking whether it was valid for you to space Push, and begin investigating. Very quickly becomes clear that, at least on the surface level, there was nothing valid about it - the two of you had a grudge ongoing and you, it would seem, acted first on it to remove the other participant from the round. You had little else with which to justify your actions besides "admins didn't help me in time last round" and "he's been metagrudging me and I think he was metagrudging me this round too, so I metagrudged him first". Any act of murderous metagrudge, in my mind at least, compounds pretty heavily with the large accruement of notes and other bans you've done, and penultimately the talk you had recently that there needs to be a drastic improvement made to your behavior or something like this would happen.

Now, I can't personally vouch for whether or not the permaban deserves to stick, because I myself have very few, if any, interactions with you as a player, and it was largely the notes and bans left by other admins which led me to decide that a permaban and forum discussion was warranted in this instance. I can't therefore in good conscience lift the ban until others, in particular at least one of the headmins, has offered their opinion on the value you offer to the server with all of the above in mind.

Incidentally, I was less concerned about whether the player you accused of having initiated this conflict had indeed done so, and far more concerned about the course of action you chose to take when dealing with them. Ahelping about someone potentially metagrudging to get you in trouble IC is something I'd have been happy to handle and would've been very much on your side about if it had turned out to be true - you taking matters into your own hands and removing someone from the round over a perceived slight is where I draw the line.

In short, this was just the straw that broke the camel's back, and I won't be lifting the ban myself until other admins have shared their input.

[Jazaen]

Hello yes I was there.
As for my two cents to add, regarding the situation that I handled, I indeed dropped it primarily because you disconnected - Push jumping to have you thrown into perma (though they have changed their behavior later, they did try it) before you even broke into captain's office (especially based on the fact that you got them two shifts ago) was wrong, and they were warned not to escalate situations based on out-of-round knowledge.
I was a bit busy during the second round, and so didn't investigate the second incident.

[Stickymayhem]

I know we have Jiggly on what is essentially probation, but their take on the situation does seem understandable. Do we have a roundid so I can have a look through the logs and we can verify his take.

If it's accurate I'd honestly suggest reducing it to a dayban and maintaining the probation.

[Ispiria]

Round ID was 81014. I have to leave for work in just a little while here so won't be able to go log-diving myself - I'd be willing to lower this to a 24-hour ban when I get home as per Sticky's suggestion if nothing can be turned up showing it deserves to stay otherwise.

[Ispiria]

Okay so after looking around a little more, I was able to find evidence that the person you'd killed had actually demanded security arrest you with no particular IC motivation for doing so - as a result I'm forced to conclude that they had in fact initiated the metagrudging in this round, assuming you to be the one who'd stolen the cap's spare with no IC reasoning behind it. I still have a hard time justifying your response to it, but at the same time I'm more reluctant now to let the ban stick. It's been nearly 24 hours since the ban was applied, so I'll lift it now and consider it a 24-hour ban for the nonantag murder which, I'll reiterate again, really should've been something you ahelped instead of taking into your own hands.

If any headmins would prefer to intervene and re-apply the ban, given your rather extensive history, I'll yield this decision immediately. Additionally I'll be putting a note on the other party involved in this conflict due to the metagrudging clearly being a two-way street in this instance. In the future, please always ahelp suspected metagrudging before acting on it, and excuse us if it takes a while for us to resolve; metagrudging can be difficult to prove in the best of circumstances, and often requires a fair bit of cross-examination and log diving to verify conclusively.

Once again, thank you for your patience and cool-headedness in dealing with this issue!

Edit - it appears the other party involved has since been permabanned for an unrelated issue, so I'll be leaving off adding the note to them unless they find themselves unbanned in the near future.

[imblyings]

I think this is more or less the optimal way to have solved things after considering new information.